UKC

Winter boots for large feet.

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 Mr. Lee 10 Dec 2015
I'm having problems finding some winter boots that are an adequate fit and could do with some ideas before I order anything else. I've large feet with limited options as to what I can try on in the shops local to me.

I've used Scarpa Omegas (size 47) for years without problem until end of last winter when many of my toe nails started bruising. Pretty sure this was due to the lining becoming thinner and my feet slipping forward a litte. My heels lifted a bit in them but they they were an adequate otherwise.

Tried some Batura 2.0s in 47 in a shop local to me. Felt a fraction short but this was the largest size stocked. Ordered a pair online in size 47.5. Realised during my first day out that my smaller toes were too cramped (pair now due to be sold on). It again felt a length problem and so I ordered the Batura 2.0s in size 48. After pacing around the house in them I can feel the same problem exists with my lesser toes being cramped. I wouldn't describe my feet as being wide but the Batura 2.0 toe box is certainly too tapered for my toes. The heels are a really good fit though and apart from the toes the boots feel good.

I've tried some Scarpa Phantom Guides in size 47 but they also felt too short in length. Again nobody stocks size 48. Natural option is to order a pair in size 48 but I sense I have been here before! I'm expecting a bit of heel lift based on what I've read but I can probably live with that. I've also tried the Salewa Pro Gaiter in 47 but these were too short with no larger sizes available.

Wondered if anybody could comment on how the Phantom Guides compare in fit to Batura 2.0s? I obviously have a rough idea from trying the size 47 but it's differcult to tell fully when the boot feels too short. Also whether anyboody has alternative suggestions for a boot with similar rearfoot fit to the Batura 2.0s but with a more generous toe box? Ideally I'd like something of similar warmth to the above mentioned boots. Just looking for a bit of feedback before ordering anything else.

Greatful for any input. Cheers.
 Jamie Hageman 10 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:

I had a pair of Berghaus Kibos that I found to be nice and roomy in the toe box. They were size UK12, and they were too big for me so i sold them just recently. I see from a website that they went up to 12.5. They are a B2 boot with no notch at the toe for automatic crampons, but with very little flex. I went for the Batura 2 in size 47, and they fit me much better.
Trouble with the Kibo is that it's discontinued, so you'd have to buy blind on Ebay. There is a pair of 12s on there at the mo, but they come with Grivel G12 crampons.
 rob16 10 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:

I wear a size 48 batura 2 and did try the Scarpa Guides in a 48 beforehand. I personally got on better with the La Sportiva boots but I would say there was not a significant difference in the amount of toe space but the Batura held my heel better.
It will be interesting to try the new Scarpa Phantom Tech to see if that fits better, although it looks flatter at the toe.

I would suggest looking at the Nepal as it still has the sportiva heel cup but they make up to size 50 if I remember correctly. Obviously no inbuilt gaiter but a little loss in warmth might be worth it for a better fit?

Hope some of that helps.
 Jim Fraser 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:

A good mountain boot fit in terms of length should provide between one and one and half finger thicknesses of length beyond the length of the foot.

The way you measure this is by loosening the laces, moving the foot forward until the toe just touch the front of the boot and slip your hand down the back of the heel. When the tips of your fingers have reached the back of your heel then there should be plenty room for them and they should be able to move back and fore about half a finger thickness.

This isn't a millimetre accurate method but it is a practical tool-free method that scales to your body.

The room needed for easy and pain-free walking downhill isn't a lot different from what is needed for front-pointing but you might look for something nearer the one and half fingers when choosing a winter boot.

If you have that amount of length then in a boot that USED TO FIT there are a few other things to think about. Stretched boot and collapsed lining providing less support is certainly a consideration. Feet changing shape is another rarely-considered consideration. Your feet respond to their use level the same as other parts of your body and they can get fatter or thinner with the rest of you.

What about socks? Not the trusty OLD sock issue? Watch out for that one!

Insoles and volume adjusters change the shape of the boot volume in one way and different socks change the volume in a different way. Many people use two socks and typically you could change the thickness of the outer sock. Then there are changes in lacing. You may have to spend some time messing about with this stuff. Try to be methodical.
OP Mr. Lee 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Jamie Hageman:

Thanks but think I need something warmer. Also, I use C3 crampons and need a totally rigid sole that accepts a crampon front bale.
OP Mr. Lee 11 Dec 2015
In reply to rob16:

> I personally got on better with the La Sportiva boots but I would say there was not a significant difference in the amount of toe space but the Batura held my heel better.

Thanks for confirming what I suspected. I was looking at the Scarpa website last night and noticed the tapered toe box shape similar to the Batura 2.0s. Guess it's to improve climbing on rock without crampons but the fit clearly doesn't work for me.

> I would suggest looking at the Nepal as it still has the sportiva heel cup but they make up to size 50 if I remember correctly. Obviously no inbuilt gaiter but a little loss in warmth might be worth it for a better fit?

Nepals are not going to be warm enough for me. I live in Norway and do a fair amount of winter / spring Alpinism, plus was in the Karakoram this summer with plans to go back. Don't need a double boot but certainly the warmer single boots available.

Also I'm almost certain it's not a length problem as I've been using a size 47 without problems for years now and I'm only size 12 in a normal shoe. 48 should be generous enough with the right fit I would have thought.

Thanks for the suggestions.
OP Mr. Lee 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Jim Fraser:

> A good mountain boot fit in terms of length should provide between one and one and half finger thicknesses of length beyond the length of the foot.

Used to measure for about 20 pairs of shoes a week when I was an orthotist in the UK. Glad I don't do that anymore! The 48 boots feel as though they have plenty of length, there's enough width at the joints (MTP joints), so the problem feels related to the toe box tapering too aggressively for my 4th/5th toes.

My foot does over-pronate slightly, which makes me a little more suspeptable to lateral toe pressure. I know I won't prevent this with any sort of insole (again I'm an orthotist). Just need a more rounded toe box shape I think, similar to the Omegas. Vegas I suspect would be an answer but don't think I will like the weight. They would probably be a backward step as well after the Omegas. I think I need a plastic boot for what I climb.
OP Mr. Lee 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:

Correction to the last sentence above. I *don't* think I need a plastic boot for what I climb.
 robgixer 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:
Hi Lee. Have you tried any Boreal. Look like good boots but I don't know how easy they are to get hold of. Can't comment on the fit just another option.
Post edited at 08:09
OP Mr. Lee 11 Dec 2015
In reply to robgixer:

Alright Rob. Good suggestion. Stetind boot looks good but nobody seems to sell more than a few random sizes so maybe discontinued. Go up to UK 13.5 according to the Boreal website. Guessing the Arwa boot is the current flagship and replacement, judging by what is actually on sale and given it's what Nick Bulluck uses. Annoyingly this model only goes up to 12, so the biggest size is probably too small.
 Damo 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:

I have a similar side-toe issue with my Nepals, but it's not always bad - heel lift was more of an issue. I'm LS size 47 and always found Scarpa 47 too short.

I'd be interested to see how these are: https://www.mountainproject.com/v/lowa-weisshorn-gtx-vs-latok-with-built-in...

My Nepals weigh the same as my Spantiks and the latter are much more comfortable so now I just wear them for everything.
 Siward 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:

For warmth would a pair of Baruntses fit the bill? Properly warm and big sizes catered for.


http://tinyurl.com/ncj546w
 Scarab9 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:

I ended up in 49s Nepal Extremes. I had ONE option of boot I could find stocked in the UK and thankfully I seem to have pretty neutral feet so they fit great and Needlesports had them stocked up to 50 at the time.

Anyway, they're a usual go to response on here for us big foot types and you can usually find some to try on.

Take a few pairs of socks and try different lacing options to see if you can get an ideal fit in regards to heel lift and the usual stuff
OP Mr. Lee 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Siward:

Yes the Baruntse boot is rising towards the top of the list given the lack up alternatives. I could probably track down a Spantik 47 to try on, which uses the same last. Almost certain the 47 Spantik will be too tight based on what I've read but hopefully it would give me an indication as to what size Baruntse to order from Germany in. Think they are overkill for my needs but will likely climb better in a heavy clumpy double boot that is comfortable than in a more appropriate model that is uncomfortable.
 abcdef 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:

Not sure how you can be a UK12 and get any joy with a 47 mountain boot. Maybe I am a large 12? (example have a lot of Nike trainers which tend to fit in that size - occasionally certain models will be too short - but an Adidas 12 are a bit small-made generally).

I have never been able to get a Scarpa 48 B3 to work for me in terms of length, only ones were Vega's which were classed as a 13 (don't think they even had a continental size).
OP Mr. Lee 11 Dec 2015
In reply to abcdef:

> Not sure how you can be a UK12 and get any joy with a 47 mountain boot.

Yes I am looking primarily at 48, which about a UK 13 and so a full UK size larger than my regular shoe size. Would have expected this to be enough. Think the Omegas just suited my foot very well, although the updated liner version was far too tight in a 47.

OP Mr. Lee 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Damo:

Lowa boots look good. Thanks for the suggestion. Lots of shops in Germany but can't find an online store outside of the US. I would get on a plane and fly to Berlin for the weekend if I could try a full range of models and sizes!!
 abcdef 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:
not sure - my trainers of UK12 are 47.5 so a 48 isn't necessarily going to be a 13.

I just got hold of some Nepal Extremes in 49 and reckon will have to be clever with lacing and volume adjusters to stop toe bashing during descents or front pointing, so even they are not overly-long.
Post edited at 13:39
OP Mr. Lee 11 Dec 2015
In reply to abcdef:

> I just got hold of some Nepal Extremes in 49 and reckon will have to be clever with lacing and volume adjusters to stop toe bashing during descents or front pointing, so even they are not overly-long.

That is my concern with just going big. I've a fairly low instep and so know I will just slip forward in a size too large and be none the better. Thanks for info though. Think I can strike Nepals from the list, although they were never going to be warm enough for me on colder days.

Looks like Lowa, followed by the Baruntse, followed by the Vegas are my current options. Some of the replies on this thread have saved me a low of wasted effort, thanks.
 abcdef 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee: "Think I can strike Nepals from the list" in fairness I don't think they are particularly bad, and they moveable tongue adjuster seems pretty good at helping adjust fit. Additionally i think I am going to experiment - need enough padding around the front and sides of the foot to fill volume a bit more, but obviously lots of layers of sock for instance would a) compress my toes a bit, and b) move my heel further away from sitting in the cup snugly so encourage heel lift. I guess I need something with a cutout for the heel and toes - modified neoprene socks or similar....
OP Mr. Lee 11 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:

> Looks like Lowa, followed by the Baruntse, followed by the Vegas are my current options. Some of the replies on this thread have saved me a low of wasted effort, thanks.

Actually the Baruntse is only stocked to 47.5 with Bergfreunde so appears that the larger sizes haven't made it to Europe.
 rogerwebb 12 Dec 2015
In reply to Mr. Lee:

yhm
 williemilne 15 Dec 2015
In reply to rogerwebb:

For any big footed people out there, I've just posted a pair of minimally used size 47 Scarpa Mantas on the UKC "for sale" forum..... (They turned out to be a tiny bit too small for me!)

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