UKC

Last item on my Christmas shopping list.

My parents are in desperate need of some new kitchen knives - ease of use finally winning over sentimentality.

The proviso, though, is that my Mum would hate a knife block on the kitchen worktop and all the knives live in a drawer, so, ideally, I'm after some that come with sheaths/edge guards, or that can be bought separately.

Quality-wise, I'm looking decent, mid-range stuff. Probably aiming for 2-3 knives as a starter set, usual food prep uses.

Online shopping isn't that helpful - some stores now don't list knives for online purchase, so don't have much detail on range, and those that do require digging through the item details for the guards.

Thanks in advance,

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I have this: http://www.johnlewis.com/robert-welch-signature-bamboo-knife-block-4-piece/...
am happy with the knives and the block lives in a drawer.
It also holds other bigger knifes such as bread and carving knifes

In reply to Removed UserHeather:

We have Robert Welch knives, and they're very good. To get round the problem of not storing them in a drawer or in a knife block, we have a magnetic knife strip mounted on the wall - works very well.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I confess that for simple cutting and slicing, I tend to pick up the cheap ceramic knives I bought in TKM. They have sheaths.

For anything that might require levering, I stick with steel. And, despite having a Wusthof starter set, often go for an Analon kyotsu; like a snub-nosed chef's knife. Also with a sheath, also from TKM...

http://www.cheftalk.com/products/anolon-advanced-5-5-inch-kyotsu-knife-with...

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I'd buy, unless you've lotsa money, one cooks knife and a sharpening steel.

Makes- I like zwilling/henckels- best I've ever used (nicer than those Global ones), but a large cook's knife will set you back seventy odd quid. Wusthoff also make great knives (no coincidence both are German).

http://uk.knivesandtools.com/en/pt/-professional-s-cook-s-knife-8.htm

Expensive yes but a good cook's knife will last a lifetime and make every time you cook an enjoyable experience.

Last tip- you may be surprised, just occasionally, what you can pick up at TK Maxx.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I used to use ceramic knives from TK Maxx. Well, they are usually dirt cheap (as everything else), usually around fiver or so. My flatmate managed to break two knives in 2 years. I bought another one and I broke it as well.

They are really sharp and stay sharp for a long time, but I've learned it does not fit for all purposes.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

+1 for a magnetic rail, which means you don't limit yourself to a specific block (though you could look for one of those ones that are like a hollow block filled with very thin straws that adapt to anything).

A chef's knife, a paring knife and a bread knife should be pretty much all that's ever needed. I've also liked using Robert Welsh and Zwilling knives, as previously suggested.

Or if you're feeling fancy an Japanese knife might be a particular treat:

http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/

In reply to Siward and others:

My knives are all Richardson - a mix of standard and Fusion edge. All great, but hardly see them around. My picnic knife is a ceramic thing I bought in a French hypermarket and I'd happily buy another, bigger one.

My wife's knives are Wusthof and have slightly better balance than mine, but I find the blades a bit flexible on some.

My Dad has more knife sharpeners than you can wave a blade at and I'm going to get something decent, but it's trying to find ones with edge guards that's proving tricky.

I fully agree with TK Maxx as a source, but it's a bit too hit and miss on choice.

In reply to LastBoyScout:
These come with leather sheathes:

http://www.sabatier-shop.com/kitchen-knives_129_authentique-1834-limited_.h...

I ordered some blanks and put walnut scales on for my girlfriends birthday last year but they're exactly the same blade, lovely knives (ordering them without handles took about 3 months of emails back and forth, thankfully their knives are a lot better than their service). It's difficult because it's personal preference, I've always prefered french knives to german or japanese, just what I've always used and liked. Maybe have a look at what they use now and choose something with a similar shape.

Sab K make great knives and the 1834 range is really nice. You can get a 8" chef, parer and a steel* for under £100 which is what you'd pay for one wusthof chef or other cheffy style premium brand and the quality is worlds apart from a good sab. They do a few other ranges, look to have a sale on their wooden handled ones:

http://www.sabatier-shop.com/kitchen-knives_10_auvergne_.html

Nothing wrong with in the drawer in a sheath just make sure they don't end up drying with the cutlery after they're washed! Shudders...

* I would probably opt for a different steel in hindsight, like so many these days it's very aggressive and honing the edge requires some care to prevent the steel from trying to sharpen the blade.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Probably a bit late now for christmas but if you fancy going a bit 'kill bill'

https://cuttingedgeknives.co.uk/#Hello

In reply to LastBoyScout:

There are some good online offers on Victorinox Knife sets which come with a storage wallet

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Bought these for my daughter and she loves them, come in a foam block you can keep in the drawer http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0001IX4NG/ref=pe_385721_37038051_TE_3p_dp_1

In reply to iksander:

Henckel 4 star.

Don't worry about a "set". Get a decent knife block (horizontal not vertical slots). Buy a chefs knife, small utility knife and their breadknife (wonderfully sharp, cuts fresh bread in thin slices).

In reply to LastBoyScout:
The mainstay of your knife set is the chef's knife and I wouldn't be without my Spitzenklasse. It's balance is tuned to absolute perfection. The roll rocks nicely when chopping veg and the edge stays sharper longer. The handle is comfortable and the durability is commercial grade.
A sharpening steel is a must and the diamond steels are the only way. I'd ditch the idea of getting the set and just get them the Spitzenklasse and steel. They don't come cheap but a knife that lasts a lifetime won't come for change.
I also had a Sabatier and the handle stapped off, nearly took my bloody hand off.
Edit: I'd also threaten them that if they throw it in the drawer with the other stuff then you'll test it on them, such fine kitchenware should be respected.

In reply to olddirtydoggy and Ben Sharp:

They look nice and I don't think it'll be "thrown" in the drawer, but Mum likes a clean work top.

In respect of steels, I've actually got a Stellar diamond coated one (TK Maxx ), which seems good and not as agressive as the steel ones. In any case, my Dad is pretty handy at sharpening things and has enough stuff in the garage to put an edge on a rolling pin!

In reply to LastBoyScout:

http://www.nisbets.co.uk/Victorinox-6-Piece-Rosewood-Knife-Set-with-20cm-Ch...

I use these alongside a blok knife set for about 10 hours a day, most days of the week. Reasonably priced, sharp, and great all round knives for the money. If you ask Laura from Fernweh, https://m.facebook.com/FernwehUK/ she'll make a custom knife roll. Or as has been mentioned, get a magnetic knife holder, storing knives in a drawer is going to ruin the edge.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I'll second the Henckel, a friend of mine has the set and his chef's knife is quite nice to use.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

A decent chefs knife is all you need really. I personally prefer santokus/usuba style knives as I don't deal in meat so vegetable chopping is what I spend most of my time doing.

To be honest, apart from handle comfort and blade shape, the most important thing is having the skills to keep it sharp. If she, like most people, has a drawer full of knives that have just gone dull you could pay to get them sent to a professional knife sharpener and then give her a steel to maintain the edges.

I can also second the magnetic strip. They look great and no more rummaging through drawers or those silly overpriced multi-knife holders.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

There's really no point in having the knives they've got professionally sharpened - as I mentioned, Dad is pretty handy at sharpening things and in any case they are old and pretty cheap knives with poor steel to start with.

Due to the layout of their kitchen, there's nowhere to put a magnetic strip and, in any case, she wouldn't want them on display. Hence why my original post asked for recommendations of decent knives that come with edge guards.

I think I'm going to pop along to a couple of cook shops later this afternoon and perhaps see what's in Bentalls/John Lewis/TK Maxx in Kingston when I'm over that way on Tuesday.

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

In reply to LastBoyScout:
My local TKM has some Henckels Twin Pollux knives in at the moment. You could have picked up a 8" chef's knife, 5" petty knife and 4" paring knife for £60 (£25, £20 & £15 respectively). And added an 8" boning knife for another £25.

I'm not that keen on the Twin Pollux handles, preferring the 4* and 5* as more 'traditional'. But the blades are the same high quality.

TKM prices may not be that keen:

http://m.millyskitchenstore.co.uk/TwinPollux-Category-3644.html

In reply to LastBoyScout:

You really don't need a massive knife if you're an amateur; a veg prep knife and a medium sized (chef's?) knife are all you need. Oh, and a sharpening iron.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

WMF or Goldhamster knives from Solingen, good German quality, and a decent sharpener.

CB

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Stellar from these guys look like a good deal. Im looking forward to getting mine on xmas day

http://www.hartsofstur.com

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Whilst we're on the subject, what are folks preferences for sharpeners?
I've been meaning to get one for our kitchen and was wondering if there was much difference between the different manufacturers and types.

In reply to youngtom:

I have one of these sharpeners with the knife jigs...

http://www.axminster.co.uk/tormek-t-7-water-cooled-sharpening-system-502867...

In reply to youngtom:
I use a combination of whetstones and a leather strop. A steel for honing at work

A 400/1200 will get you started. The key is getting the angle correct, too low and you'll just grind the side of the blade, too high and you'll blunt the knife. European knives tend to be around 22 degrees, Japanese around 15-17 if memory serves.

http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/whetstone

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

Seen lots is Stellar knives in TKM. Never been in the least tempted. They just don't look, well, 'stellar'; grey looking steel, not great handles, etc.

I could be entirely mistaken, of course, never having tried them...

In reply to captain paranoia:



Bum. Don't spoil Xmas for me! Surely they'll be better than my Tesco quality ones?

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
Oops... As I said, I haven't tried them. I'm sure they'll be better than than Tesco's...



Seriously, I hate it when I do something like this. i hope they're brilliant. Must read posts more carefully so as not to put foot in mouth.

In reply to captain paranoia:



You're fine. I'm not a knife snob. I'm sure they'll be fine. Anyway, it's xmas. It's the thought that counts.

In reply to youngtom:


There's definitely a difference with what you pay for but mostly in terms of speed and density, i.e. a good stone will cut faster and wont spit bits of stone out which will ruin your work.

It's quite an investment if you're not already sold on the idea of spending lots of money on big flat rocks but I'd recomend the naniwa super stones without hesitation (about £40 a pop, they do cheaper ones which I haven't used but have heard are good value.), I used a few 20 quid ones for a long time and the superstones were a revelation. It's much easier to stay consistent and so quick to get a decent edge with them. If you've got a bunch of old knives to sharpen invest in an extra course stone and it'll save you hours, after that you'll get on fine with a mid grade (400-600) and a fine (1000-2000). I have 400, 800, 1000, a 2/4k combination and a cheaper 8k, anything over 2k is really only for your own masterbatory pleasure at the finish and in reality wont make a difference unless you're stropping them instead of steeling them.

When it comes to the steel about 90% of the steels on the market are far too aggressive for me and can easily undo your good work if you're not very gentle. I like a fine grain that runs horizontally with the handle (i.e. not spiral), I've never seen a diamond one that isn't designed for taking metal off and my understanding was that they were more aggressive but perhaps you can get more gentle ones too (going from the comments above). If you keep a steel in a kitchen for a few years it'll get greasy and gummed up, horizontal ridges are easy to clean out with a brass wire brush or possibly a steel one if you're gentle. They should last a long long time.

General rant aimed at no one in particular - It makes me cringe every time I see a chef on tv bashing their knives off a steel. You need a couple of gentle strokes on each side every time you use it, the aim is to true the edge not take metal off. After you've spent hours getting the perfect angle on a flat stone mashing it against the steel at lightning speed while it wobbles around in the air will just make you cry in the long run and over time leave you with a wonky blade, usually concave in the middle of the belly where the steel makes first contact as in the bottom one in this - http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-5MAAOSwHnFV3xc6/s-l300.jpg couldn't find a better photo but you get the idea, there's no reason that poor knife couldn't have lasted a lot longer, if I lived alone I expect I would never sharpen my knives and they get used every day, once they're sharp there's never really any need to remove metal from them if they're treated nicely.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I just went to my local cookware store and tried/handled a few until I'd found a decent set for reasonable money. Never been a big fan of buying brands, they're the right shape and weight and I can sharpen them when they get abused.
Jk

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Get one really good one rather than a set.

Miyabi are beautiful.

In reply to Siward:

Well, trip to a cook shop this afternoon resulted in me spending slightly more than planned, but have got them a Zwilling/Henckels Pure starter set of 4", 6" and 8" knives nearly half price.

They feel nice, although I prefer the style of the Pro range, with riveted handles.

Tried the Robert Welch ones they had and didn't like the handles.

All that remains to see is whether Mum can still count to 10 come New Year

In reply to Sharp:


True true. I picked up a ceramic 'steel' from a food festival and it's great. Much less aggressive than the expensive and short-lived diamond steel that I had before. I give each knife 3-4 goes each side each time I use it and I've actually found myself getting the stones out less than with its predecessor. Sharpen thoroughly twice to three times a year and just look after the knives as above in the meantime.

Slightly off-topic but any recommendations for a decent knife block for an odd combination.

The lovely Henckel one that came with my knives, and has horizontal slots not vertical (so blade isn't resting on the wood), is great but it was designed for the "set" and not expandable. In reality the best set of knives for me is 3 identical large chef's knives and 2 small knives. So I need a block that will take that. I don't like magnetic racks as they leave the knives out to get dirty. So I need 3 large slots, 1 medium, and 3 small. Scissors slot would be bonus.

In reply to Philip:

Search for 'Universal knife block' and you're laughing.

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:



Not wanting to be too rude, but people ask on here because they want some kind of personal recommendation from people likely to be real. Not to simply search google, or read amazon reviews written by paid reviewer or idiots.

I've see that type of block. Are they any good? Not having a specific slot for the knife, is it tricky getting them in and out when the block is relatively full.

In reply to Philip:
I prefer a roll or magnetic holders for various reasons, but I realise they aren't for everyone. I bought my mother in law a Kapoosh knife block last Christmas, she seems to love it. It's definitely universal, allows you to store your knives however you like. It also isn't just a set number of slots, or designed for a specific set of knives. youtube.com/watch?v=MCaefWdAYvs& the centre also comes out for easy cleaning, if that's a concern.

http://tinyurl.com/z642bm6

In reply to tspoon1981:

Thanks.

In reply to Sharp:


- ----------It makes me cringe every time I see a chef on tv bashing their knives off a steel. -----------

It looks dressy, its grandstanding for the audience is

its done like this but shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh don't tell you steel the top of the blade

In reply to youngtom:


The bloke that charges 40p an inch.

I reckon the vast vast majority of people don't know what the the f*ck they're doing with a steel.

In reply to Philip:



Provided you make sure to leave the handle end pointing outwards, you should be fine. I use a wood one.

In reply to Philip:


With vertical slots, put the knife in upside down, so the cutting edge isn't touching anything.

If you're that concerned...

In reply to captain paranoia:

Depends on the balance, but if the handle weighs more than the blade it pivots so the blade touches the top. It doesn't seem to work somehow.

Anyway, I might try a universal alongside my existing one.