UKC

http://www.mail.com/int/business/economy/4022286-pride-vies-with-sadness-br...

Thanks for keeping the lights on lads,

In reply to Name Changed 34:

Coal, no longer needed as the government has a clear plan to keep the lights on with just hot air.

In reply to Name Changed 34:
They outlasted Maggie. Well done.

In reply to Name Changed 34:
Overseas coal is only cheaper because it (often) isn't as cleanly/safely mined.

In reply to Name Changed 34:

The faster we can replace coal with cleaner alternatives the better.

It's gross that the world expects men to work underground in such dirty unhealthy conditions in this day and age.

In reply to Timmd:


Sometimes but not always.

Our coal is often deep, its often faulted, no matter how good south wales coal was the faults meant expensive mining and repeated shafts being built.

You just can't compete with the huge open cast coal pits of eastern europe or other areas. With careful rehabilitation its not that bad.

In reply to Name Changed 34:

http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=70221676

In reply to Trangia:



That's a good point.

In reply to Trangia:


Maybe, but listening to some of them, they took pride in their jobs.
Most of them will now face long term unemployment or shitty service industry jobs at best.
A sad day for them.

In reply to Lusk:


It is indeed a sad day for them, and I'm sorry for them, but the world and workers have to move on with the times and technology, e.g. there's probably not much demand for sailing ships or typewriters now. So it's time to retool now lads and lasses.

In reply to abseil:

Heard a Wakefield council member sound optimistic about the job prospects for those made redundant. Hope she's right.

In reply to abseil:

Lasses, under ground.?


there's probably not much demand for sailing ships or typewriters now

and of course no demand for Coal?
why do we import

In reply to Lusk:

I fully agree - it's gross that we got them into this state of affairs by placing too much reliance on the fruits of their labours and not retraining and creating new jobs decades ago. It's equally shitty that society has just dumped them now because we can buy in cheaper from abroad.

There still seems to be no long term forward planning concerning the workforces when it comes to heavy industries, mining and power production.

In reply to Trangia:


There certainly wasn't any by the Unions.

Second thoughts, there was, but it took the form of overmanning, poor productivity and "jobs for life".

In reply to abseil:

Re sailing ships and typewriters; I often think the same thing about cycles.

In reply to Name Changed 34:





Edit
It also about putting into place alternative power, and community's, not just jobs.
The BIGEST problem the world has is over use, of witch I and we are all complicit,
that and the fact we are too many, world over.

If it is the case that Coal is not mined on green climate grounds, then why not do the same with Oil? [Oh but we need petrol I can hear you saying,,] we need Cole as well, that's why its now a import helping the balance of trade -------- for someone else. and Gas.

If it is on the economic cost, has the sum included, the risk of nuke, the loss of land to solar farms, the unemployment [and, the socio economics factors associated with. idleness, health, crime, UC. ]
Has due consideration been paid to the need to be self sufficient in a time of need, insofar as defence of these islands. can we rely on EDF the Chinese, central America, to keep us supplied? if not what happens ? open the pits, flooded and Gas,bound. Or go open cast in the green belt. or do we capitulate and look forever stupid, that the power house of the home colony of the Empire was closed early.

However this was a issue in 1982 and 4, yesterday is became history, and I thought to take the opportunity to thank the boys form below.

Trangia re;
It's gross that the world expects men to work underground in such dirty unhealthy conditions in this day and age

You surprise me, of the things in the world, the going to work of your own free volition, in a vocation like many others, that yes, can turn you into strange shapes, before letting you go to a early bath, but is far from ''gross' and I suspect behind others for sickness and death, in the league tables, is not gross. now a Bevin boy, that's different, but of course we were at War and that IS gross.


Chris Harris
who has the rose tint ? me not moving with the 21st C, or the Gov sitting by

In reply to Name Changed 34:

The Bevin boys was an interesting one. You had the choice of possibly losing your life or having your balls shot off or working underground and ruining your lungs. Which would you have chosen?

In reply to Trangia:


You actually didn't have a choice.

In reply to Name Changed 34:
I get that its a massive shame about the last mine closing but if we cant compete with the prices then we cant compete.
No one can argue that unless youre that one person that drives a british car, buys british electical devices, wear British manufacturered clothes and eats british food???
Most dont because you either get better quality for your money or its blatantly cheaper and our money goes further.
Its a shame but not a surprise.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Cycling's popularity is booming, and some non cycle shops have a bike in their window, to add to the vibe it seems.

Beats me how an old road bike or a single speed adds to the vibe, but it's not something I find fault with.

If we're importing coal we should probably still be employing UK miners, it possibly reduces the carbon footprint to use home mined coal.

In reply to payney1973:



I work in Procurement, and trying to buy British for materials is not easy.

Even if I try to buy forgings 'made in Britain' inspection of the base material certification hardly ever shows it is is British Origin.
So 'bashed in Britain' may be more accurate.

In reply to Trangia:

You can retrain or you want.

This wasn't simply jobs.

You took miners, guys who spent 10 hours a day in squalid conditions, BUT they spent them laughing and joking with friends, no barriers, blokes being blokes. It was a life style.

We took the jobs and then built a call center and retrained... result guy is now sat in a desk without friends feeling a bit soft whereas a year ago he was doing a 'proper job' with mates having a laugh.

Mining, fishing, farming aren't just jobs, They are a way of life.

We may think they should just retrain but sadly history DOES tell us that just does not work. The level of depression and PEDS in the valleys tell us this.

In reply to Timmd:

I just couldn't see Abseil's point about wind powered boats. I don't really think they are a thing of the past and would like to think that there are designers out there working on large scale wind powered vessels capable of taking some of the cargo trade back from oil powered ships.
As for typewriters, there may be a point there, but I'm surprised by the revived interest in vinyl music so who knows what might enjoy a resurgence next?

In reply to Roadrunner5:

>


Very good points.

The problem is, should governments keep institutions running at a loss indefinitely just so that they can keep people in work? It is preferable to paying benefits, and at least in the case of miners coal is being extracted which may not be competitively priced, but is still coal.

There is a value to the NHS because it will mean less depression related illnesses. I wonder if factors like this are taken into account when calculating the TRUE economic cost when the decision is made to close a mine?

I don't pretend to know the answers but there must come a cut off point in any declining industry, it is how this is handled in relation to the workforce that society doesn't seem able to address. And of course there is a difference between privately owned ventures which are profit driven and state owned ventures which may have more flexibility in providing a social service.

In reply to Tom Valentine:
I agree with you on wind powered boats and there are some futuristic designs being considered. It's an ideal way of moving non perishable goods. "Conveyor belts"* of fleets of ships can be at sea at any one time on the trade routes. If you want to buy 10,000 tons of iron ore, you don't have to wait weeks or months for it to reach you from say Bolivia, you just go to a shipping agent who will locate a cargo already at sea on the conveyor belt and purchase it then. The price will obviously depend on the urgency for delivery. This was how trade was conducted during the heyday of sail.

Sorry to the OP I diverge from your subject.

* No one mention planes please

In reply to Postmanpat:


Yes, sorry, you are right. It was a ballot.

In reply to Trangia:

Well, wind powered boats will benefit from advances in aerofoil technology possibly developed in the you know what industry...

In reply to Trangia:

I 'm not sure I had a choice, (as you now say) Bevins were conscripted from the draft, if you did not look like front line fodder you would be put to war work.

Hobsons choice I would at that age bean fit for front line but will let you decide. coward [me]

In reply to Tom Valentine:

As soon as I can get to work (14 miles) in rush hour faster on public transport or in a car than on a bike then I see your point. Until then....

In reply to jonnie3430:

My point was a bit tongue in cheek; cycles are very much an important part of our future and hopefully companies like Lade (Norway) and Lykstra (Holland) will show us that sailing ships are every bit as relevant to the 21st century as they were to the 19th.

In reply to Roadrunner5:


I think the Welsh valleys are especially unfortunate due to being out on a limb geographically, and in a business sense, in there not seeming to be a lot to draw investment there, it can seem like there's less happening in some of them than in some of the northern towns which have also lost pits & other industry.

In reply to Timmd:


Sort of . There's a mining museum called the Big Pit which employs some of the miners . It's a good couple of hours, and they're very funny and upbeat. But, you've got to feel sorry for them.
I'm from Stoke and even given it's excellent geographical situation, the community is now in dire straits. 25 years ago, face workers were on£500 a week with the benefits passed to the local communities, now they're just on benefits.

In reply to Trangia:



Exactly. Coal should be a completely outdated source of power, the whole process is ridiculous in the 21st century.

In reply to Name Changed 34:


No, it was simply a ballot.

In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:


As a former Wakefield resident I suspect she isn't.

In reply to Dave the Rave:


There is part of the problem, 25 years ago the average wage was £260. I used to have a few contracts for overhauling equipment for the mine industry and money was no object. The wastage was unbelievable, the corruption in my experience was high too.
There was a tool shop in one area that I worked that was stocked by the brother of the guy who owned it who just happened to be a store man at the local pit, all the tools were top end gear and they were selling them for less than cheap tools cost

In reply to Roadrunner5:



PEDS? What, they're on EPO?

Good idea - Normo Tebbs did say "Get on your bike & look for work". If they're on EPO, this will help them find work faster.

In reply to Name Changed 34:

I guess the question you need to ask is how much money are you prepared to pump into a community to create/maintain a way of life that's effectively artificial?

It is sad to say, but perhaps some of these communities do not have a future. But what then is the endgame for those who live there, have their life savings invested in houses? There never seems to be a way forward or design to what might happen next