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As a devoted list junky I've had it in mind to put together a list of the best easier UK Sports routes for a while. I'm fairly familiar with Portland which clearly will provide several lines to any potential top 50, for example:
Slings Shot (5a)
Reptile Smile (6a+)
Pregnant Pause (6a+)
Go With the Flow (6a)
Stalker's Zone (6a+)
Consommé (6a+)
Underage (6a)
Elsewhere
Still Nice and Still Sleazy (6a+)
Lemon Soul (6a)
Don't Jis on my Sofa (6a+)
Plastic Soldier (6a)
Borderline (6a+)
have all impressed me. It would be good to have a wide geographical spread to any list. So hit me with your favourite UK Sports routes in the RockFax Orange Spot zone F5 - F6a+ and I'll try to make sense of them all in a list.
Slings Shot (5a)
Reptile Smile (6a+)
Pregnant Pause (6a+)
Go With the Flow (6a)
Stalker's Zone (6a+)
Consommé (6a+)
Underage (6a)
Elsewhere
Still Nice and Still Sleazy (6a+)
Lemon Soul (6a)
Don't Jis on my Sofa (6a+)
Plastic Soldier (6a)
Borderline (6a+)
have all impressed me. It would be good to have a wide geographical spread to any list. So hit me with your favourite UK Sports routes in the RockFax Orange Spot zone F5 - F6a+ and I'll try to make sense of them all in a list.
3
In reply to The Ivanator:
Not done masses of sport routes in the uk but Silence of the Clams (5c) impressed me.
Not done masses of sport routes in the uk but Silence of the Clams (5c) impressed me.
2
1
In reply to The Ivanator: If you listen to the authors of the North Wales Limestone guide there are no good sport routes below about 8a. They've stated this in print somewhere on this site. In NWL the easiest routes (F6a+ and below) there were almost no stars awarded. For F8b and above virtually everything was 2* or 3*, while routes of 7b-7c+ are treated like royalty.
Obviously this approach is elitist bollocks, and I look forwrd to your list.
Obviously this approach is elitist bollocks, and I look forwrd to your list.
21
5
In reply to sam.sam.sam.ferguson:
Yep, done that and it is a good 'un. My personal favourite on Xavier's Wall is Coming of Age (6a) and things like The Price of Silence (6a) Pinch an Inch (6a) Fear's Younger Brother (6a) are all damn good too, but I'm keen that the list doesn't get too Portland centric.
Along the Dorset coast at Swanage Stone Mason (6a+) may be worthy of inclusion.
Yep, done that and it is a good 'un. My personal favourite on Xavier's Wall is Coming of Age (6a) and things like The Price of Silence (6a) Pinch an Inch (6a) Fear's Younger Brother (6a) are all damn good too, but I'm keen that the list doesn't get too Portland centric.
Along the Dorset coast at Swanage Stone Mason (6a+) may be worthy of inclusion.
In reply to Frank the Husky:
Yep, it was partly Brian's (bpmclimb) current thread to that effect http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=633114 which gave me the nudge to get the list started.
Yep, it was partly Brian's (bpmclimb) current thread to that effect http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=633114 which gave me the nudge to get the list started.
2
In reply to Frank the Husky:
No it isn't, easy limestone really tends not to be that inspiring. Either in comparison to harder limestone, or in comparison to really good easier climbs on other types of rock, of which there are loads in North Wales.
Orangutang Overhang (6a+) otoh, while not by any stretch of the imagination a classic, has really good and pretty tough climbing for the grade.
> Obviously this approach is elitist bollocks
No it isn't, easy limestone really tends not to be that inspiring. Either in comparison to harder limestone, or in comparison to really good easier climbs on other types of rock, of which there are loads in North Wales.
Orangutang Overhang (6a+) otoh, while not by any stretch of the imagination a classic, has really good and pretty tough climbing for the grade.
4
In reply to AlanLittle:
Yes, I've done that one and though short it certainly packs a variety of good moves in. Fresh Air (6a) is another Slate line that I enjoyed.
Yes, I've done that one and though short it certainly packs a variety of good moves in. Fresh Air (6a) is another Slate line that I enjoyed.
1
In reply to AlanLittle:
The "easy Limestone is rubbish" argument has some truth, but IMO it does depend hugely on the nature of how the Limestone has formed - at Cheddar for example it is hard to find real quality in the lower grades. However on a very different style of Limestone at Swanage the quality available in Boulder Ruckle at VS-E2 is significant and these would translate to the Orange Spot Sports climbs in difficulty.
P.S. I'm not suggesting bolting the Ruckle before the flames start!!
The "easy Limestone is rubbish" argument has some truth, but IMO it does depend hugely on the nature of how the Limestone has formed - at Cheddar for example it is hard to find real quality in the lower grades. However on a very different style of Limestone at Swanage the quality available in Boulder Ruckle at VS-E2 is significant and these would translate to the Orange Spot Sports climbs in difficulty.
P.S. I'm not suggesting bolting the Ruckle before the flames start!!
1
2
In reply to The Ivanator:
Pregnant Pause at Portland (6a+) is the best one I've done at that grade range.
Pregnant Pause at Portland (6a+) is the best one I've done at that grade range.
Post edited at 12:20
1
In reply to John2:
Nothing is missed yet, the beginnings of the list are only just taking shape. Lazy Days and Summer Haze (6a+) is another good Portland one.
But meanwhile away from the isle.... your suggestions please.
Nothing is missed yet, the beginnings of the list are only just taking shape. Lazy Days and Summer Haze (6a+) is another good Portland one.
But meanwhile away from the isle.... your suggestions please.
1
In reply to The Ivanator:
I'm not a fan of the majority of low-grade UK sport climbs outside Portland, I'm afraid. I do remember enjoying Sometimes I Won't Thrill You (6a+) at Wyndcliff Quarry, though.
I'm not a fan of the majority of low-grade UK sport climbs outside Portland, I'm afraid. I do remember enjoying Sometimes I Won't Thrill You (6a+) at Wyndcliff Quarry, though.
1
In reply to The Ivanator:
School's out 6a+ at horseshoe is a gem on lovely rock, floating up the slab/vertical part of the main wall. Good jugs just where you need them and lovely moves on smaller holds in between.
School's out 6a+ at horseshoe is a gem on lovely rock, floating up the slab/vertical part of the main wall. Good jugs just where you need them and lovely moves on smaller holds in between.
1
In reply to The Ivanator:
I live in Manchester and enjoy some lower grade sport routes - I will not disagree the quality is nothing compared to quality trad routes or low grade sport routes in Europe but couple for your list would include ....
Coral Seas (6a) Harpur Hill
Senile Delinquents (5+) Harpur Hill
Borderline (6a) Trevor Area
I live in Manchester and enjoy some lower grade sport routes - I will not disagree the quality is nothing compared to quality trad routes or low grade sport routes in Europe but couple for your list would include ....
Coral Seas (6a) Harpur Hill
Senile Delinquents (5+) Harpur Hill
Borderline (6a) Trevor Area
2
In reply to John2:
I climbed Sometimes I Won't Thrill You (6a+) last month, it is decent. In terms of Lower Wye sport in the grade range I prefer Still Nice and Still Sleazy (6a+) and Muddy Waters (6a)
I climbed Sometimes I Won't Thrill You (6a+) last month, it is decent. In terms of Lower Wye sport in the grade range I prefer Still Nice and Still Sleazy (6a+) and Muddy Waters (6a)
In reply to AlanLittle:
Have you climbed in Pembroke, or Swanage? (Looking at your profile I'm sure you have.)
Perhaps you meant "easy Sport Climbing tends not to be that exciting" which I would agree with.
There isn't much easy sport in the UK of course, but I've climbed a fair few in the 4's and 5's on Kalymnos and found them all a bit samey and forgettable really. I think the truth may be that sport climbing tends to engage you when you are finding it hard, whereas trad climbing can engage you on so many other levels.
Martin
> No it isn't, easy limestone really tends not to be that inspiring.
Have you climbed in Pembroke, or Swanage? (Looking at your profile I'm sure you have.)
Perhaps you meant "easy Sport Climbing tends not to be that exciting" which I would agree with.
There isn't much easy sport in the UK of course, but I've climbed a fair few in the 4's and 5's on Kalymnos and found them all a bit samey and forgettable really. I think the truth may be that sport climbing tends to engage you when you are finding it hard, whereas trad climbing can engage you on so many other levels.
Martin
4
1
In reply to zmv:
Never been to Horseshoe (its reputation doesn't inspire a visit tbh) but School's Out (6a+) does look worthy of consideration.
Never been to Horseshoe (its reputation doesn't inspire a visit tbh) but School's Out (6a+) does look worthy of consideration.
In reply to sdavies141:
Coral Seas (6a) definitely looks worth inclusion and Senile Delinquents (5c) is on the long list. Done Borderline (6a+) and included that in my OP so it will be in there barring a flood of better alternative suggestions.
Coral Seas (6a) definitely looks worth inclusion and Senile Delinquents (5c) is on the long list. Done Borderline (6a+) and included that in my OP so it will be in there barring a flood of better alternative suggestions.
In reply to Martin Hore:
But if you find 4s and 5s challenging would they then become more memorable? I've done quite a few Sport multi pitch routes in Europe at sub 6a and there were some gems amongst them.
But if you find 4s and 5s challenging would they then become more memorable? I've done quite a few Sport multi pitch routes in Europe at sub 6a and there were some gems amongst them.
1
2
In reply to The Ivanator:
Trying to think of a decent Cheddar route or two as it is a major Sport venue, struggling to recall a really decent one below F6b+ though.
Cooler Thinking (6a) and The One-Armed Man (6a) were both decent, but if anyone has better suggestions...
Trying to think of a decent Cheddar route or two as it is a major Sport venue, struggling to recall a really decent one below F6b+ though.
Cooler Thinking (6a) and The One-Armed Man (6a) were both decent, but if anyone has better suggestions...
In reply to najki_2000:
Memories (6a) it's on the long list. Seems we are quite quickly in the territory of 2* and 1* climbs, perhaps there really is a shortage of decent UK routes in the grades specified. Anything at Giggleswick? Or St. Bees? Or more offerings North of the border?
Memories (6a) it's on the long list. Seems we are quite quickly in the territory of 2* and 1* climbs, perhaps there really is a shortage of decent UK routes in the grades specified. Anything at Giggleswick? Or St. Bees? Or more offerings North of the border?
In reply to Martin Hore:
Pembroke yes, Swanage only once a long time ago. Even in Pembroke I'd say the real quality only gets going around HVS/E1.
I do think it's partly a limestone thing. I can think offhand of more good easier sport routes on gneiss (Ötztal, South Tyrol) than on lime. Even leaving sport aside, I'd be suprised if you could name any limestone severe that's remotely in the same league as something like Tophet Wall.
Pembroke yes, Swanage only once a long time ago. Even in Pembroke I'd say the real quality only gets going around HVS/E1.
I do think it's partly a limestone thing. I can think offhand of more good easier sport routes on gneiss (Ötztal, South Tyrol) than on lime. Even leaving sport aside, I'd be suprised if you could name any limestone severe that's remotely in the same league as something like Tophet Wall.
2
In reply to AlanLittle:
Blue Sky (VS 4b) is not a great deal harder than Tophet Wall, is on Limestone, in the UK and of comparable quality.
Blue Sky (VS 4b) is not a great deal harder than Tophet Wall, is on Limestone, in the UK and of comparable quality.
In reply to Frank the Husky:
Agreed - this approach is indeed elitist bollocks (and NWL is sadly a real disappointment)
Agreed - this approach is indeed elitist bollocks (and NWL is sadly a real disappointment)
In reply to The Ivanator:
I don't know if you've ever visited any of the crags in Rockfax's Languedoc Rock, but they make UK sport climbing look a very sorry affair.
I don't know if you've ever visited any of the crags in Rockfax's Languedoc Rock, but they make UK sport climbing look a very sorry affair.
In reply to The Ivanator:
Portland again, but I think The Man Who Never Found Himself (6a+) is an underrated route, nice run out as well for those who like a bit of excitement in their low grade sport climbing.
Portland again, but I think The Man Who Never Found Himself (6a+) is an underrated route, nice run out as well for those who like a bit of excitement in their low grade sport climbing.
2
In reply to John2:
But that's Euro land, John...
I can remember in one afternoon in 1980 doing the best Severe, VS/HVS and E1 I'd ever done in my life - in the Calanques - even then, not really a first division crag (though of course En Vau is gorgeous). A decade earlier, in Rocksport, some Aussie (Chris Dewhirst?) had scandalously suggested that many of our classics were scarcely world classics. He was, of course, absolutely correct. We can still love them though - I certainly do.
[To Ivan]
Another vote for Coral Seas. And one for John Leonard's Winter Sun, in an originally rubbish venue transformed into a pleasant spot. It must be the most amenable 6a on Portland, ideal for balance climbers entering/operating at the grade.
Mick
But that's Euro land, John...
I can remember in one afternoon in 1980 doing the best Severe, VS/HVS and E1 I'd ever done in my life - in the Calanques - even then, not really a first division crag (though of course En Vau is gorgeous). A decade earlier, in Rocksport, some Aussie (Chris Dewhirst?) had scandalously suggested that many of our classics were scarcely world classics. He was, of course, absolutely correct. We can still love them though - I certainly do.
[To Ivan]
Another vote for Coral Seas. And one for John Leonard's Winter Sun, in an originally rubbish venue transformed into a pleasant spot. It must be the most amenable 6a on Portland, ideal for balance climbers entering/operating at the grade.
Mick
2
In reply to The Ivanator:
Not climbed it, but heard good things about Supercalorific at Churston - 6a+/b
Not climbed it, but heard good things about Supercalorific at Churston - 6a+/b
In reply to The
Loads at bram crag quarry . I ve never climbed at Portland so can't make a direct comparison but can certainly compare with Horseshoe , those other little peak " " holes and robin proctor scar . All the routes in your range at bram are IM vey HO , better .
Post edited at 16:36
In reply to The Ivanator:
Votes for;
Fisherman's Friend (5c)
Hodgson's Groove (4c)
To spread the geographical load,
And also
Coral Seas (6a)
School's Out for Summer (E1 5b)
Both of which I have yet to lead clean.
Edit, I mean School's out at Horseshoe, the best of which is better than some would have you believe, but can also be worse than you could possibly imagine!
Votes for;
Fisherman's Friend (5c)
Hodgson's Groove (4c)
To spread the geographical load,
And also
Coral Seas (6a)
School's Out for Summer (E1 5b)
Both of which I have yet to lead clean.
Edit, I mean School's out at Horseshoe, the best of which is better than some would have you believe, but can also be worse than you could possibly imagine!
Post edited at 16:52
In reply to Frank the Husky:
I've not done many sports climbs but the following at 6a/b were OK and worth a least a star
Blue Sky@ Anstey's
Ragged Glory @Churston
Indian Summer@Castle Inn
School's Out @Horseshoe
I've not done many sports climbs but the following at 6a/b were OK and worth a least a star
Blue Sky@ Anstey's
Ragged Glory @Churston
Indian Summer@Castle Inn
School's Out @Horseshoe
In reply to The Ivanator:
Sharp Practice (6a)
There aren't many good low grade sport routes around here, but this one is a gem. Originally a trad route, it has one of the most enjoyable and memorable moves.
Sharp Practice (6a)
There aren't many good low grade sport routes around here, but this one is a gem. Originally a trad route, it has one of the most enjoyable and memorable moves.
1
In reply to Frank the Husky:
I've not done much on north welsh limestone full stop, but what 2-3 star classics in the 5+-6a+ range in that area would you suggest to refute their view?
I've not done much on north welsh limestone full stop, but what 2-3 star classics in the 5+-6a+ range in that area would you suggest to refute their view?
In reply to The Ivanator:
winspit - unseen ripples of the pebble Unseen Ripples of the Pebble (6b) I really rate this route
hedbury - jumping the gun is also really good get's F6b but it's not a hard one (and may be due a down grade apparently)
winspit - unseen ripples of the pebble Unseen Ripples of the Pebble (6b) I really rate this route
hedbury - jumping the gun is also really good get's F6b but it's not a hard one (and may be due a down grade apparently)
2
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Good call Steve, Unseen Ripples... is superb. Stone Mason is, imho spoiled by one much harder, slippery and not nice move. But Unseen Ripples... pump city at the grade.
It's one of those little gems, like Rob's Slab at Fairy Cave and that VS flake crack at Hound Tor (or somewhere like that).
Mick
P.S. Hope you're enjoying things Caledonian. Are the women fierce - and do they wear woad?
Good call Steve, Unseen Ripples... is superb. Stone Mason is, imho spoiled by one much harder, slippery and not nice move. But Unseen Ripples... pump city at the grade.
It's one of those little gems, like Rob's Slab at Fairy Cave and that VS flake crack at Hound Tor (or somewhere like that).
Mick
P.S. Hope you're enjoying things Caledonian. Are the women fierce - and do they wear woad?
In reply to The Ivanator:
Just a quick comment on the point above. I'd be genuinely surprised if over half the decent routes at these grades in the UK weren't on Portland.
> I'm keen that the list doesn't get too Portland centric.
Just a quick comment on the point above. I'd be genuinely surprised if over half the decent routes at these grades in the UK weren't on Portland.
In reply to Mick Ward:
unseen ripples is a funny one for me, it doesn't seem too pumpy if I really use my feet well, but if I don't its pump city. I did it a few times but in fairly close succession and I was climbing quite well around then (being a bit lighter and fitter).
I agree about stone mason its more of a 1-2 star route than 2-3.
Generally enjoying being back in Scotland, unfortunately I've spent quite a lot of the time injured (last injury was getting knocked off my bike by a car at completely their fault, luckily I wasn't as destroyed as my bike but still my shoulder and ankle still aren't there yet).
The Edinburgh lasses aren't as scary as the dundonian ones IMO
unseen ripples is a funny one for me, it doesn't seem too pumpy if I really use my feet well, but if I don't its pump city. I did it a few times but in fairly close succession and I was climbing quite well around then (being a bit lighter and fitter).
I agree about stone mason its more of a 1-2 star route than 2-3.
Generally enjoying being back in Scotland, unfortunately I've spent quite a lot of the time injured (last injury was getting knocked off my bike by a car at completely their fault, luckily I wasn't as destroyed as my bike but still my shoulder and ankle still aren't there yet).
The Edinburgh lasses aren't as scary as the dundonian ones IMO
Post edited at 20:52
2
In reply to The Ivanator:
I'm going to ignore your 5+ criteria and go for your "best easier sports route" request.
Fallen Slab Arête (3a) is one of the best sport climbs I've done (even though I generally solo it these days), long(ish), well bolted and atmospheric.
I'm going to ignore your 5+ criteria and go for your "best easier sports route" request.
Fallen Slab Arête (3a) is one of the best sport climbs I've done (even though I generally solo it these days), long(ish), well bolted and atmospheric.
1
In reply to kipper12:
Hmm sorry; -1 for Coral Seas: I thought it was at best, average. Good move over the roof but contrived start and finish - 1 star
I struggle to think of any 3* routes in that range tbh
Hmm sorry; -1 for Coral Seas: I thought it was at best, average. Good move over the roof but contrived start and finish - 1 star
I struggle to think of any 3* routes in that range tbh
In reply to thermal_t:
It's a fair point you make re. Portland, and if I am aiming for 50 routes I'd accept there might be 20 or so from the Isle, but it would be great if the list encouraged a little exploration. I've a good idea of what's worthwhile on Portland, but less aware of the gems elsewhere. There appear to be plenty of generously starred routes at Giggleswick (North and South) any feedback on the merit of these?
Debbie Direct (6b)
No Picnic for Teddy Bears (5c)
Malheureuse (6a)
Diversion (5c)
Bonhomie (6a+)
The Constant Gardener (6a)
Amical Rivalite (6a+)
It's a fair point you make re. Portland, and if I am aiming for 50 routes I'd accept there might be 20 or so from the Isle, but it would be great if the list encouraged a little exploration. I've a good idea of what's worthwhile on Portland, but less aware of the gems elsewhere. There appear to be plenty of generously starred routes at Giggleswick (North and South) any feedback on the merit of these?
Debbie Direct (6b)
No Picnic for Teddy Bears (5c)
Malheureuse (6a)
Diversion (5c)
Bonhomie (6a+)
The Constant Gardener (6a)
Amical Rivalite (6a+)
In reply to The Ivanator:
Another vote for this - probably the best route on your list (of the ones I've done)
Another vote for this - probably the best route on your list (of the ones I've done)
In reply to Chris Sansum:
Another vote for Pregnant pause. My first of the grade and still my favourite
Another vote for Pregnant pause. My first of the grade and still my favourite
In reply to Bulls Crack:
I like coral seas. The start is pretty rubbish but it has some good flowing moves on quality rock. maybe I had low expectations walking past all the dog poo and burned out cars.
There are some other good climbs at Harpur Hill Quarry Running for Cover (5c), Beep, Beep (6a+) and especially Wile E Coyote (6a) are long routes on good rock. However they do seem to have been recently retro-bolted by someone with a very liberal attitude to luminous orange glue.
In the peak A Time and a Place (6a) is a good route on an otherwise poor crag and by far the easiest "6a" I've ever done.
The Big Take Out (6a) and Farther, Dear Farther (6a) are also pretty good but the first is lacking a lower off and the second has an anchor made of some rusted old aid bolts.
As for Portland, I didn't get on with it. Too much climbing on compacted mud, surprisingly short routes and incredibly sandbaggy grades. I'll probably go back though and try it again though since everyone else has a different opinion of it.
I like coral seas. The start is pretty rubbish but it has some good flowing moves on quality rock. maybe I had low expectations walking past all the dog poo and burned out cars.
There are some other good climbs at Harpur Hill Quarry Running for Cover (5c), Beep, Beep (6a+) and especially Wile E Coyote (6a) are long routes on good rock. However they do seem to have been recently retro-bolted by someone with a very liberal attitude to luminous orange glue.
In the peak A Time and a Place (6a) is a good route on an otherwise poor crag and by far the easiest "6a" I've ever done.
The Big Take Out (6a) and Farther, Dear Farther (6a) are also pretty good but the first is lacking a lower off and the second has an anchor made of some rusted old aid bolts.
As for Portland, I didn't get on with it. Too much climbing on compacted mud, surprisingly short routes and incredibly sandbaggy grades. I'll probably go back though and try it again though since everyone else has a different opinion of it.
1
In reply to JHiley:
If they're the routes you did in August '15, apart from Fallen Slab Arete, they weren't the best.
Mick
If they're the routes you did in August '15, apart from Fallen Slab Arete, they weren't the best.
Mick
In reply to The Ivanator
Wheels on fire, Inertia Syndrome revisited and Subterranean Homesick Blues, all at Robin proctors Scar are all good. Amical Rivalite and Swansong at Giggleswick are worthwhile.
Wheels on fire, Inertia Syndrome revisited and Subterranean Homesick Blues, all at Robin proctors Scar are all good. Amical Rivalite and Swansong at Giggleswick are worthwhile.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Hi Steve,
Sorry to hear about your bike injuries. I shudder at bike injuries - they could so easily be terminal. Hope you recover soon. Maybe sinking a few pints with young Mr Jones might give you inspiration.
Best wishes,
Mick
Hi Steve,
Sorry to hear about your bike injuries. I shudder at bike injuries - they could so easily be terminal. Hope you recover soon. Maybe sinking a few pints with young Mr Jones might give you inspiration.
Best wishes,
Mick
1
In reply to Mick Ward:
Fallen slab arete was a good route. I'd say it was the best three I've done but I'm not sure I'd ever done any until I went to Portland. The routes I did were very un-ambitious choices but I didn't dare do anything challenging after seeing the rock.
My friend and plenty of other people at the crag were falling off 4's which just doesn't happen at any other place I've been (although the rock didn't break...). Presumably someone could have a similarly disappointing and worrying experience coming to the peak district and staying on very low grade routes so I'll have to go back.
Fallen slab arete was a good route. I'd say it was the best three I've done but I'm not sure I'd ever done any until I went to Portland. The routes I did were very un-ambitious choices but I didn't dare do anything challenging after seeing the rock.
My friend and plenty of other people at the crag were falling off 4's which just doesn't happen at any other place I've been (although the rock didn't break...). Presumably someone could have a similarly disappointing and worrying experience coming to the peak district and staying on very low grade routes so I'll have to go back.
Post edited at 23:03
In reply to JHiley:
Ok horses for courses etc.
Couple from the North: Wheels On Fire (6a+)
Born Again (6a+)
Ok horses for courses etc.
Couple from the North: Wheels On Fire (6a+)
Born Again (6a+)
1
In reply to The Ivanator:
In Scotland my favourite crags for easier sport routes are the conglomerate crags of Moy and Loch Fleet, quite a few nice routes there, but not really any super classics at these grades.
Another vote for Sharp Practice at Cambus O May, a great wee route. I also liked Tale of the Tape at Elephant rock.
I'm in the midst of establishing some longer easier routes...hopefully they will climb nice when finished!
In Scotland my favourite crags for easier sport routes are the conglomerate crags of Moy and Loch Fleet, quite a few nice routes there, but not really any super classics at these grades.
Another vote for Sharp Practice at Cambus O May, a great wee route. I also liked Tale of the Tape at Elephant rock.
I'm in the midst of establishing some longer easier routes...hopefully they will climb nice when finished!
Post edited at 23:03
In reply to The Ivanator:
Trouble with the bolts is all the decent or strong easier natural lines were climbed as trad routes years ago, which leaves loose or uncharismatic quarry routes or unprotectable routes/lines which have subsequently been bolted (ie portland).
And then the better ones of these are loved to death.
Is there any slate in the brackets? I know Gnat attack is E1, but its really only a bold f5 (and bolted). and its more memorable than many sport 5s.
Lots for pregnant pause, is this still the case after the relatively recent atrophy of sections?
Talk I think its called - 6a/6a+ at blacknor central I quite like when its not soapy.
Trouble with the bolts is all the decent or strong easier natural lines were climbed as trad routes years ago, which leaves loose or uncharismatic quarry routes or unprotectable routes/lines which have subsequently been bolted (ie portland).
And then the better ones of these are loved to death.
Is there any slate in the brackets? I know Gnat attack is E1, but its really only a bold f5 (and bolted). and its more memorable than many sport 5s.
Lots for pregnant pause, is this still the case after the relatively recent atrophy of sections?
Talk I think its called - 6a/6a+ at blacknor central I quite like when its not soapy.
In reply to JHiley:
I'm really sorry your friend and you have had a bad experience. If you come back, feel free to contact me for any amount of beta about routes to do/avoid, where/when to climb. I live on Portland and know the crags well (too well?) Same offer applies to anyone else. Given that people often travel a long way and can incur significant cost to get here, you want them to have a good time. Often, walking past the crags, I see people on routes which just aren't going to work for them. Obviously you can't be intrusive (nobody likes a smart-arse) but sometimes a couple of gentle suggestions have transformed peoples' days on the crag. God knows I've wasted enough days on crags struggling with the wrong routes - well they were wrong for me!
Mick
I'm really sorry your friend and you have had a bad experience. If you come back, feel free to contact me for any amount of beta about routes to do/avoid, where/when to climb. I live on Portland and know the crags well (too well?) Same offer applies to anyone else. Given that people often travel a long way and can incur significant cost to get here, you want them to have a good time. Often, walking past the crags, I see people on routes which just aren't going to work for them. Obviously you can't be intrusive (nobody likes a smart-arse) but sometimes a couple of gentle suggestions have transformed peoples' days on the crag. God knows I've wasted enough days on crags struggling with the wrong routes - well they were wrong for me!
Mick
2
In reply to Mick Ward:
I had a look at the guide just now its pretty clear I didn't try any of the routes I'd intended to. It wasn't a bad trip necessarily. It was more about getting some easy sport that my friend could do before she went away for a long time so going to Blacknor north wasn't really a good option.
I might just use this list when its finished if it does end up being very Portland centric.
How about routes in Scotland? The 2012 article made it look like there was a some good stuff but there haven't been many suggestions on here.
I had a look at the guide just now its pretty clear I didn't try any of the routes I'd intended to. It wasn't a bad trip necessarily. It was more about getting some easy sport that my friend could do before she went away for a long time so going to Blacknor north wasn't really a good option.
I might just use this list when its finished if it does end up being very Portland centric.
How about routes in Scotland? The 2012 article made it look like there was a some good stuff but there haven't been many suggestions on here.
Post edited at 13:02
In reply to JHiley:
Well, as a tip, neither Reptile Smile nor Consomme are much fun in a burning sun. So, if someone's on Portland, on a typical hot summer day, doing Reptile Smile in the morning shade and Consomme in the evening shade will generally give the most enjoyable experiences (assuming wind isn't a problem).
Mick
Well, as a tip, neither Reptile Smile nor Consomme are much fun in a burning sun. So, if someone's on Portland, on a typical hot summer day, doing Reptile Smile in the morning shade and Consomme in the evening shade will generally give the most enjoyable experiences (assuming wind isn't a problem).
Mick
In reply to JHiley:
I've already compiled an Orange Spot list for Portland, hope these routes give some fun days:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=497
I've already compiled an Orange Spot list for Portland, hope these routes give some fun days:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=497
In reply to The Ivanator:
Interesting thread, these are very much "my grades" on sport routes, but I'm struggling to think of a UK sport route I've done that really stands out. I enjoy climbing everything I get to climb, but that's not the same as climbs sticking out in your memory. I've done Coral Sea not so long ago - just over a year but don't really remember much about it. Trying the supposed HVS next to it (and falling off it!) is a much stronger memory (although falling off is memorable so perhaps that's an unfair comparison). Llanymynech on a summers day with the peregrines and orchids is delightful but I can't remember much about the 5+ and 6as I've done there. Even the slate sports routes sort of blur together.
Hmmm, interesting... I will have to think further on this!
Interesting thread, these are very much "my grades" on sport routes, but I'm struggling to think of a UK sport route I've done that really stands out. I enjoy climbing everything I get to climb, but that's not the same as climbs sticking out in your memory. I've done Coral Sea not so long ago - just over a year but don't really remember much about it. Trying the supposed HVS next to it (and falling off it!) is a much stronger memory (although falling off is memorable so perhaps that's an unfair comparison). Llanymynech on a summers day with the peregrines and orchids is delightful but I can't remember much about the 5+ and 6as I've done there. Even the slate sports routes sort of blur together.
Hmmm, interesting... I will have to think further on this!
In reply to TobyA:
You're absolutely right - they blur. I remember more of Astra and Troach than any 6a+ I've ever done. But Pregnant Pause is an honourable exception. I can remember some years ago, a friend of ours' who was very strong but also pretty shaky at the time, committing to the final arete moves. When she clipped the anchors, a great roar went out from everyone. We were so pleased for her. Still remember that feeling.
Mick
You're absolutely right - they blur. I remember more of Astra and Troach than any 6a+ I've ever done. But Pregnant Pause is an honourable exception. I can remember some years ago, a friend of ours' who was very strong but also pretty shaky at the time, committing to the final arete moves. When she clipped the anchors, a great roar went out from everyone. We were so pleased for her. Still remember that feeling.
Mick
1
In reply to Mick Ward:
Can't remember who said: sports routes are collectively fun but individually forgettable?
Can't remember who said: sports routes are collectively fun but individually forgettable?
1
In reply to Bulls Crack:
Agreed but I would make an exception for Kalymnos where I have done some of the best and most memorable routes I can think of and that includes the trad ones. The routes are varied, interesting and have strong lines on excellent rock. In many other areas especially at 5c/6a you climb one grey slab and move on to the next route and it's more or less the same.
Al
Agreed but I would make an exception for Kalymnos where I have done some of the best and most memorable routes I can think of and that includes the trad ones. The routes are varied, interesting and have strong lines on excellent rock. In many other areas especially at 5c/6a you climb one grey slab and move on to the next route and it's more or less the same.
Al
In reply to The Ivanator:
As a complete aside, when did 5 and 5+ magically change to 5a, 5b and 5c?
Bloody new-fangled stuff!
As a complete aside, when did 5 and 5+ magically change to 5a, 5b and 5c?
Bloody new-fangled stuff!
In reply to Mick Ward:
>I remember more of Astra and Troach than any 6a+ I've ever done.
Yes but the point is that Astra and Troach are probably harder as leads than any bolted 6a+ you will have ever done and it is things near your limit that you remember most. Although I have probably done a lot more trad routes than sport routes in my climbing career a lot of my most memorable leads are bolted. Some of these are slate routes with widely spaced bolts but others, e.g. Axle Attack, are sport routes. I think the star ratings in the old Rockfax give a truer representation of the quality of easy sport routes in N Wales than the harsher quality ratings in NWL. The slate guide is also a lot more generous with star ratings for easy sport than NWL and a comparison of star ratings between the slate guide and NWL in this grade range leads to a substantial underestimate of the quality on offer in the NWL area.
>I remember more of Astra and Troach than any 6a+ I've ever done.
Yes but the point is that Astra and Troach are probably harder as leads than any bolted 6a+ you will have ever done and it is things near your limit that you remember most. Although I have probably done a lot more trad routes than sport routes in my climbing career a lot of my most memorable leads are bolted. Some of these are slate routes with widely spaced bolts but others, e.g. Axle Attack, are sport routes. I think the star ratings in the old Rockfax give a truer representation of the quality of easy sport routes in N Wales than the harsher quality ratings in NWL. The slate guide is also a lot more generous with star ratings for easy sport than NWL and a comparison of star ratings between the slate guide and NWL in this grade range leads to a substantial underestimate of the quality on offer in the NWL area.
In reply to The Ivanator:
It can be a bit difficult to pick out an outstanding route at Giggleswick South or North, Moughton Nab, Harpur Hill, Castle Inn Quarry, Stoney West or even Horseshoe but they are all well worth a visit and all have good routes in the F5 - F6a+ range.
However I'll have a go at suggesting a few at some other crags -
Another Roadside Attraction - Colehill Quarry
Memories - High Tor
Blitz's Jug - Penmaen Head
Agent Orange - Penmaenbach Quarry
Llywelyn ap Gruffyd to Neil Crud - Dyserth Castle Slab
Wheels on Fire - Robin Proctor's Scar
Silver Buttons - Langcliffe
It can be a bit difficult to pick out an outstanding route at Giggleswick South or North, Moughton Nab, Harpur Hill, Castle Inn Quarry, Stoney West or even Horseshoe but they are all well worth a visit and all have good routes in the F5 - F6a+ range.
However I'll have a go at suggesting a few at some other crags -
Another Roadside Attraction - Colehill Quarry
Memories - High Tor
Blitz's Jug - Penmaen Head
Agent Orange - Penmaenbach Quarry
Llywelyn ap Gruffyd to Neil Crud - Dyserth Castle Slab
Wheels on Fire - Robin Proctor's Scar
Silver Buttons - Langcliffe
1
In reply to The Ivanator:
A vote for Pregnant Pause which, I reckon, is an outstanding route because of its position, steepness and moves. Three stars for me.
A vote for Pregnant Pause which, I reckon, is an outstanding route because of its position, steepness and moves. Three stars for me.
In reply to The Ivanator:
Yes, I thought it was fÃng terrifying!
Abb off one anchor whilst fighting off the seagulls!
> The Deil's Heid (5c) this looks good, anyone here done it?
Yes, I thought it was fÃng terrifying!
Abb off one anchor whilst fighting off the seagulls!
2
In reply to Chris_Mellor:
I enjoyed Pregnant Pause and it clearly deserves a place on the list, the position and moves are both excellent, the quality of the rock is pretty dubious in places though and I think at a good continental crag it would only be a 2* route. Still by British standards it is exceptional and that is what this list is all about.
I think the best Sport route in the UK I have done in the grade range is Don't Jis on my Sofa in the inauspicious surrounds of Barland Quarry (Gower), exquisite slab moves across 50m of steadily increasing difficulty, and on the line the rock quality is excellent (though there is plenty of more dubious rock elsewhere on the crag).
Hopefully will find time in the next couple of days to compile a first draft of the list and will post a link here once I've done it.
I enjoyed Pregnant Pause and it clearly deserves a place on the list, the position and moves are both excellent, the quality of the rock is pretty dubious in places though and I think at a good continental crag it would only be a 2* route. Still by British standards it is exceptional and that is what this list is all about.
I think the best Sport route in the UK I have done in the grade range is Don't Jis on my Sofa in the inauspicious surrounds of Barland Quarry (Gower), exquisite slab moves across 50m of steadily increasing difficulty, and on the line the rock quality is excellent (though there is plenty of more dubious rock elsewhere on the crag).
Hopefully will find time in the next couple of days to compile a first draft of the list and will post a link here once I've done it.
In reply to Mike-W-99:
Sport climbing with character then! I reckon that qualifies it for the shortlist.
> Yes, I thought it was fÃng terrifying!
> Abb off one anchor whilst fighting off the seagulls!
Sport climbing with character then! I reckon that qualifies it for the shortlist.
In reply to roger whetton:
Thanks Roger I'll check those routes out in the database (and hopefully in person before too long).
Thanks Roger I'll check those routes out in the database (and hopefully in person before too long).
In reply to The Ivanator:
When you say a "good continental crag" do you mean good as opposed to a very good or superb crag? If you mean superb, then given the quality at that sort of crag (Buoux, Verdon, that sort of thing) I find it hard to imagine anything with pretty dubious rock on it being worth that accolade?
> I enjoyed Pregnant Pause and it clearly deserves a place on the list, the position and moves are both excellent, the quality of the rock is pretty dubious in places though and I think at a good continental crag it would only be a 2* route. Still by British standards it is exceptional and that is what this list is all about.
When you say a "good continental crag" do you mean good as opposed to a very good or superb crag? If you mean superb, then given the quality at that sort of crag (Buoux, Verdon, that sort of thing) I find it hard to imagine anything with pretty dubious rock on it being worth that accolade?
In reply to harold walmsley:
Agreed, it's things near my limit that I've remembered most. But Astra (even missing the crucial pocket) and Troach were're remotely near my limit when I did them. For me they're memorable because of the character and the history. Thinking of Austin going round that rib when he did and Banner launching up that seemingly blank wall when he did, well... you're tiptoing where gods have gone before you.
Mick
> Yes but the point is that Astra and Troach are probably harder as leads than any bolted 6a+ you will have ever done and it is things near your limit that you remember most.
Agreed, it's things near my limit that I've remembered most. But Astra (even missing the crucial pocket) and Troach were're remotely near my limit when I did them. For me they're memorable because of the character and the history. Thinking of Austin going round that rib when he did and Banner launching up that seemingly blank wall when he did, well... you're tiptoing where gods have gone before you.
Mick
1
In reply to The Ivanator:
Yes, this was awesome, even better than Reptile Smile I thought. Dunno if it's been diminished by the rockfall?
To be honest this is a differnet league - barely two stars.
I don't sport much, so not well spammed up outside Portland.
> As a devoted list junky I've had it in mind to put together a list of the best easier UK Sports routes for a while. I'm fairly familiar with Portland which clearly will provide several lines to any potential top 50, for example:
Yes, this was awesome, even better than Reptile Smile I thought. Dunno if it's been diminished by the rockfall?
To be honest this is a differnet league - barely two stars.
I don't sport much, so not well spammed up outside Portland.
In reply to AJM:
If Pregnant Pause was on the continent, it wouldn't be at Buoux or the Verdon, it would be in the Vercors or some pre-Alpine setting where dubious rock would be viewed as part of the experience. As I intimated earlier in this thread, some classic British routes (e.g. Brant, Brant Direct, Slape) might get decidedly short shrift on the continent. The great thing about Pregnant Pause is that, to people operating at the grade, it feels bloody big. So they have to put in some proper effort. And success is so much more hard-won - and so much more cherished.
Mick
If Pregnant Pause was on the continent, it wouldn't be at Buoux or the Verdon, it would be in the Vercors or some pre-Alpine setting where dubious rock would be viewed as part of the experience. As I intimated earlier in this thread, some classic British routes (e.g. Brant, Brant Direct, Slape) might get decidedly short shrift on the continent. The great thing about Pregnant Pause is that, to people operating at the grade, it feels bloody big. So they have to put in some proper effort. And success is so much more hard-won - and so much more cherished.
Mick
In reply to The Ivanator:
I can confirm two S Devon routes already mentioned are worthy suggestions;
Supercalorific at Churston
Sunshine at Anstey's Cove
I can confirm two S Devon routes already mentioned are worthy suggestions;
Supercalorific at Churston
Sunshine at Anstey's Cove
In reply to The Ivanator:
As someone who actually climbs at this grade I can assure you that it feels just as desperate as a 7c if that's your limit!
Away from the south I'd vote for Pale Rider 6a and Excavator 5c at Horseshoe Quarry
As someone who actually climbs at this grade I can assure you that it feels just as desperate as a 7c if that's your limit!
Away from the south I'd vote for Pale Rider 6a and Excavator 5c at Horseshoe Quarry
In reply to roger whetton:
I'm pretty happy with NWL, see my comments here
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=633114&v=1#x8220612
Which routes in the guide do you think should get stars, or more stars? If I've done them I'll comment, if not I'll do them in good time and let you know what I think.
> Agreed - this approach is indeed elitist bollocks (and NWL is sadly a real disappointment)
I'm pretty happy with NWL, see my comments here
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=633114&v=1#x8220612
Which routes in the guide do you think should get stars, or more stars? If I've done them I'll comment, if not I'll do them in good time and let you know what I think.
Post edited at 09:06
In reply to Babika:
Excavator? This one?
'....horrible, dirty climbing between grassy ledges on a selection of loose holds'
Excavator? This one?
'....horrible, dirty climbing between grassy ledges on a selection of loose holds'
In reply to Bulls Crack:
No, this one:
"The line on the left-hand slab gives good climbing, hardest at the top"
Where a lower off on a 50m rope is quite interesting for both parties, adding to the spice of the climb
No, this one:
"The line on the left-hand slab gives good climbing, hardest at the top"
Where a lower off on a 50m rope is quite interesting for both parties, adding to the spice of the climb
In reply to Mike Stretford:
Sorry but I've no longer got a copy of NWL. I've gone back to using the excellent 'A55 Sports Climbs' backed up with an old Rockfax and first ascent details/UKC where necessary. It would have been nice to have all this information in one place but NWL is not that place for the lower grade climber!
Sorry but I've no longer got a copy of NWL. I've gone back to using the excellent 'A55 Sports Climbs' backed up with an old Rockfax and first ascent details/UKC where necessary. It would have been nice to have all this information in one place but NWL is not that place for the lower grade climber!
In reply to roger whetton: No worries, Harold's got one for me on the other thread, I'll go do it and report back.
In reply to The Ivanator:
OK, so I have come up with a first draft of a top 50 list. Some choices are rock solid but I'm aware of others that might not be so indisputable, so interested to hear if you know of any outrageous inclusions or exclusions (i have only climbed 21 of the 50, so for many routes I am working off thread suggestions/star ratings/logbook votes). Link here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1381
In compiling the list it was abundantly clear that there are far fewer high quality "Orange Spot" sports climbs than "Orange Spot" Trad routes, a few years back I put together 2 lists of the best VS climbs in the UK (totaling 200 routes) and there were still lots of 3 star lines that missed the cut:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=52
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=147
...with the Sports list I definitely think before you get halfway down the top 50 you are probably already in 2* climb territory, still hopefully the list can provide some entertainment, I'm looking forward to seeking out some of the ones I haven't done.
OK, so I have come up with a first draft of a top 50 list. Some choices are rock solid but I'm aware of others that might not be so indisputable, so interested to hear if you know of any outrageous inclusions or exclusions (i have only climbed 21 of the 50, so for many routes I am working off thread suggestions/star ratings/logbook votes). Link here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1381
In compiling the list it was abundantly clear that there are far fewer high quality "Orange Spot" sports climbs than "Orange Spot" Trad routes, a few years back I put together 2 lists of the best VS climbs in the UK (totaling 200 routes) and there were still lots of 3 star lines that missed the cut:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=52
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=147
...with the Sports list I definitely think before you get halfway down the top 50 you are probably already in 2* climb territory, still hopefully the list can provide some entertainment, I'm looking forward to seeking out some of the ones I haven't done.
3
In reply to The Ivanator:
Gosh Ivan, you come up with some cracking lists - really thought-provoking. In the Mournes, Virgo might possibly be substituted for Agags Wall, although I can't help feeling that somewhere there's a Mourne VS which is better than either. Poetic Justice maybe. All a long time ago.
Which shows how hard it is to make these lists. Here I am dithering hopelessly over just one inclusion!
Mick
Gosh Ivan, you come up with some cracking lists - really thought-provoking. In the Mournes, Virgo might possibly be substituted for Agags Wall, although I can't help feeling that somewhere there's a Mourne VS which is better than either. Poetic Justice maybe. All a long time ago.
Which shows how hard it is to make these lists. Here I am dithering hopelessly over just one inclusion!
Mick
2
In reply to Mick Ward:
Thanks Mick, with the VS lists the problem was what to leave out, it was originally meant to be a round 100, I ended up with so many quality route suggestions a second hundred felt necessary.
The new Sports list was a different challenge, I definitely felt I was fishing around to fill the route quota, I had notions of having my eyes opened to lots of great Sports routes that were off my radar, but barring Bram Crag Quarry (which looks like a great Orange Spot venue) and some of the Scottish stuff there were few surprises.
But still keen to hear of any hidden gems I've missed.
Thanks Mick, with the VS lists the problem was what to leave out, it was originally meant to be a round 100, I ended up with so many quality route suggestions a second hundred felt necessary.
The new Sports list was a different challenge, I definitely felt I was fishing around to fill the route quota, I had notions of having my eyes opened to lots of great Sports routes that were off my radar, but barring Bram Crag Quarry (which looks like a great Orange Spot venue) and some of the Scottish stuff there were few surprises.
But still keen to hear of any hidden gems I've missed.
In reply to The Ivanator:
Excellent work! A bit disappointed to not find Another Roadside Attraction or Blitz's Jug there and don't be put off by the lack of stars for Agent Orange but I look forward to trying some of them....
Excellent work! A bit disappointed to not find Another Roadside Attraction or Blitz's Jug there and don't be put off by the lack of stars for Agent Orange but I look forward to trying some of them....
1
In reply to roger whetton:
Thanks for all your suggestions, I did consider all of them and Blitzy's Jug (6a+) in particular nearly made the cut, close call between that and Route 2 at Castle Inn, the UKC votes swayed me, but I know they are not always representative of the truth. It would put another crag on the roster to exchange those two lines, any thoughts?
Thanks for all your suggestions, I did consider all of them and Blitzy's Jug (6a+) in particular nearly made the cut, close call between that and Route 2 at Castle Inn, the UKC votes swayed me, but I know they are not always representative of the truth. It would put another crag on the roster to exchange those two lines, any thoughts?
In reply to Bulls Crack:
Route 2 and Blitzy's Jug are quite different in styles but both worth doing. I'm not really a fan of Penmaen Head but I did enjoy Blitzy's Jug - do them both!
Route 2 and Blitzy's Jug are quite different in styles but both worth doing. I'm not really a fan of Penmaen Head but I did enjoy Blitzy's Jug - do them both!
In reply to roger whetton:
Sort of highlights the relative quality of such a list though doesn't it? A pleasant but unremarkable pice of climbing in a car park vying for position with a unbalanced, oddly bolted route in an unpleasant gully.
Sort of highlights the relative quality of such a list though doesn't it? A pleasant but unremarkable pice of climbing in a car park vying for position with a unbalanced, oddly bolted route in an unpleasant gully.
Post edited at 12:04
1
In reply to Bulls Crack:
Those are two routes hovering on the edge of the cut ...there are some much better offerings in the wider list. Ironically the only route that gets no stars at all on UKC logs may be the very best of them all Don't Jis on my Sofa (6a+) - I'd rate it most highly amongst the 21 I've done, ahead of Pregnant Pause (6a+), the former does fulfill my preference for slabs (with a roof thrown in) and longer routes (p1 18m, p2 32m).
Those are two routes hovering on the edge of the cut ...there are some much better offerings in the wider list. Ironically the only route that gets no stars at all on UKC logs may be the very best of them all Don't Jis on my Sofa (6a+) - I'd rate it most highly amongst the 21 I've done, ahead of Pregnant Pause (6a+), the former does fulfill my preference for slabs (with a roof thrown in) and longer routes (p1 18m, p2 32m).
In reply to The Ivanator:
Great lists. For the sport, if you're looking to broaden the range of Welsh crags, it might be worth considering Columbia (6a) at Barmouth Quarry which has quite an adventurous feel and a fine outlook over the town and out to sea.
Great lists. For the sport, if you're looking to broaden the range of Welsh crags, it might be worth considering Columbia (6a) at Barmouth Quarry which has quite an adventurous feel and a fine outlook over the town and out to sea.
In reply to roger whetton:
Hi Roger, I've just posted this on the other thread... it's more at home here.
'Getting back to 6s sport routes, I think the 2 3 star 6a routes I know, Coral Seas and Reptile Smile, are both very good and would be starred at a euro sports crag (maybe not 3 though). If they are taken as bench marks then North Wales Limestone is spot on IMO. Many people have done route 2 at Castle Inn, and the logbook voting is actually consistent with NWL, 2 stars not 3.'
Hi Roger, I've just posted this on the other thread... it's more at home here.
'Getting back to 6s sport routes, I think the 2 3 star 6a routes I know, Coral Seas and Reptile Smile, are both very good and would be starred at a euro sports crag (maybe not 3 though). If they are taken as bench marks then North Wales Limestone is spot on IMO. Many people have done route 2 at Castle Inn, and the logbook voting is actually consistent with NWL, 2 stars not 3.'
In reply to The Ivanator:
For easy reference and to save searching out the link in an earlier post here is the current version of the list in full (50 routes):
PORTLAND
1. Slings Shot 5a ** Blacknor North
2. Reptile Smile 6a+ *** Blacknor North
3. Monsoon Malabar 6a ** Blacknor Central
4. Shit Happens, Actually 6a ** Blacknor Central
5. Pregnant Pause 6a+ *** Blacknor Central
6. Go With the Flow 6a ** Blacknor Central
7. Fear's Younger Brother 6a ** Blacknor Far South
8. Lazy Days and Summer Haze 6a+ ** Battleship Main
9. The Price of Silence 6a ** Battleship Back Cliff
10. Stalker's Zone 6a+ *** Wallsend South
11. The Man Who Never Found Himself 6a+ ** Coastguard North
12. Xavier's Wall 6a *** Coastguard South
13. Coming of Age 6a ** Coastguard South
14. Consommé 6a+ ** The Cuttings
15. Winter Sun 6a * The Cuttings
SOUTH WEST ENGLAND
1. Unseen Ripples of the Pebble 6a+ ** Winspit
2. Supercalorific 6a+ *** Churston
3. Sunshine 6a * Anstey's Cove
4. More To Share 6a+ ** The Perch Quarry
5. British Summer Time 6a+ ** Cheddar Gorge South
6. Still Nice and Still Sleazy 6a+ ** Wintour's Leap
SOUTH WALES
1. Poker In The Eye 6a+ ** The Gap
2. Rising Sap 6a+ ** Mountain Ash Quarry
3. Bowen to the Inevitable 6a ** Bowen's Parlour
4. Lemon Soul 6a ** Rhossili Bay
5. The Naughty Step 6a+ ** Rhossili Bay
6. Dawson's Corner 5a ** Rhossili Bay
7. Don't Jis on my Sofa 6a+ Barland Quarry
NORTH WALES
1. Borderline 6a+ *** Trevor Quarry
2. Plastic Soldier 6a ** Australia
3. Orangutang Overhang 6a+ ** Australia
4. Fresh Air 5c ** Never Never Land
5. Tricky Fruitbat 6a+ ** Fedw Fawr
6. Route 1 5a *** Castle Inn Quarry
7. Route 2 6a ** Castle Inn Quarry
NORTHERN ENGLAND
1. School's Out 6a+ ** Horseshoe Quarry
2. Coral Seas 6a *** Harpur Hill Quarry
3. Bonhomie 6a+ *** Giggleswick South
4. Memories 6a * High Tor
5. Wheels On Fire 6a+ *** Robin Proctor's Scar
6. Inertia Syndrome Revisited 6a+ ** Robin Proctor's Scar
7. Silver Buttons 6a+ *** Langcliffe Quarry
8. Blencathra Badger Revisted 5b *** Bramcrag Quarry
9. The Sunshine Gang 6a *** Bramcrag Quarry
10. Fisherman's Friend 5a ** St. Bees Head
SCOTLAND
1. Silence of the Clams 5c *** Arbroath
2. The Deil's Heid 5c *** Arbroath
3. Sharp Practice 6a * Cambus O'May Quarries
4. Tale of the Tape 6a+ *** Elephant Rock
5. The Groove 6a *** Ardvorlich
For easy reference and to save searching out the link in an earlier post here is the current version of the list in full (50 routes):
PORTLAND
1. Slings Shot 5a ** Blacknor North
2. Reptile Smile 6a+ *** Blacknor North
3. Monsoon Malabar 6a ** Blacknor Central
4. Shit Happens, Actually 6a ** Blacknor Central
5. Pregnant Pause 6a+ *** Blacknor Central
6. Go With the Flow 6a ** Blacknor Central
7. Fear's Younger Brother 6a ** Blacknor Far South
8. Lazy Days and Summer Haze 6a+ ** Battleship Main
9. The Price of Silence 6a ** Battleship Back Cliff
10. Stalker's Zone 6a+ *** Wallsend South
11. The Man Who Never Found Himself 6a+ ** Coastguard North
12. Xavier's Wall 6a *** Coastguard South
13. Coming of Age 6a ** Coastguard South
14. Consommé 6a+ ** The Cuttings
15. Winter Sun 6a * The Cuttings
SOUTH WEST ENGLAND
1. Unseen Ripples of the Pebble 6a+ ** Winspit
2. Supercalorific 6a+ *** Churston
3. Sunshine 6a * Anstey's Cove
4. More To Share 6a+ ** The Perch Quarry
5. British Summer Time 6a+ ** Cheddar Gorge South
6. Still Nice and Still Sleazy 6a+ ** Wintour's Leap
SOUTH WALES
1. Poker In The Eye 6a+ ** The Gap
2. Rising Sap 6a+ ** Mountain Ash Quarry
3. Bowen to the Inevitable 6a ** Bowen's Parlour
4. Lemon Soul 6a ** Rhossili Bay
5. The Naughty Step 6a+ ** Rhossili Bay
6. Dawson's Corner 5a ** Rhossili Bay
7. Don't Jis on my Sofa 6a+ Barland Quarry
NORTH WALES
1. Borderline 6a+ *** Trevor Quarry
2. Plastic Soldier 6a ** Australia
3. Orangutang Overhang 6a+ ** Australia
4. Fresh Air 5c ** Never Never Land
5. Tricky Fruitbat 6a+ ** Fedw Fawr
6. Route 1 5a *** Castle Inn Quarry
7. Route 2 6a ** Castle Inn Quarry
NORTHERN ENGLAND
1. School's Out 6a+ ** Horseshoe Quarry
2. Coral Seas 6a *** Harpur Hill Quarry
3. Bonhomie 6a+ *** Giggleswick South
4. Memories 6a * High Tor
5. Wheels On Fire 6a+ *** Robin Proctor's Scar
6. Inertia Syndrome Revisited 6a+ ** Robin Proctor's Scar
7. Silver Buttons 6a+ *** Langcliffe Quarry
8. Blencathra Badger Revisted 5b *** Bramcrag Quarry
9. The Sunshine Gang 6a *** Bramcrag Quarry
10. Fisherman's Friend 5a ** St. Bees Head
SCOTLAND
1. Silence of the Clams 5c *** Arbroath
2. The Deil's Heid 5c *** Arbroath
3. Sharp Practice 6a * Cambus O'May Quarries
4. Tale of the Tape 6a+ *** Elephant Rock
5. The Groove 6a *** Ardvorlich
2
In reply to Andy Clarke:
...it might be worth considering Columbia (6a) at Barmouth Quarry which has quite an adventurous feel and a fine outlook over the town and out to sea.
Looks from the photos like quite a striking line, but perhaps a few too many dodgy rock comments in the logbooks to warrant inclusion.
...it might be worth considering Columbia (6a) at Barmouth Quarry which has quite an adventurous feel and a fine outlook over the town and out to sea.
Looks from the photos like quite a striking line, but perhaps a few too many dodgy rock comments in the logbooks to warrant inclusion.
In reply to The Ivanator:
Any thoughts on these Routes:
Belay Bunny Bounces Back (6a+)
Mumbo Jumbo (6a+)
Beauty is Only (6a)
Skin Game (6a+)
They all look decent and having something from Pen Trwyn would be good, although clearly the better climbs there are harder than the scope of this list. Including one of these would mean sacrificing something else, my current thinking is Skin Game for Route 2 (Castle Inn).
Any thoughts on these Routes:
Belay Bunny Bounces Back (6a+)
Mumbo Jumbo (6a+)
Beauty is Only (6a)
Skin Game (6a+)
They all look decent and having something from Pen Trwyn would be good, although clearly the better climbs there are harder than the scope of this list. Including one of these would mean sacrificing something else, my current thinking is Skin Game for Route 2 (Castle Inn).
In reply to The Ivanator:
One of the LPT 6's - or maybe both- they're better quality than most of the other NWL ones. But not Mumbo Jumbo - its a useful warm-up but not much fun.
One of the LPT 6's - or maybe both- they're better quality than most of the other NWL ones. But not Mumbo Jumbo - its a useful warm-up but not much fun.
In reply to The Ivanator:
I've always been partial to Belay Bunny Bounces Back, partly because the FA was a mate, partly because it's a great name and she did bounce back, post pregnancy, in fine style. F6a+ is probably fairer though (from what I recall).
Mick
I've always been partial to Belay Bunny Bounces Back, partly because the FA was a mate, partly because it's a great name and she did bounce back, post pregnancy, in fine style. F6a+ is probably fairer though (from what I recall).
Mick
In reply to AlanLittle:
Tophet Wall has been HS for some time and as some 3 star HS routes are better than others, comparing with a route that would usually make a UK top ten list (and for some a top 3) is daft. There are loads of 3 star HS routes on Limestone that deserve their label.
Back on topic, I really enjoy sports climbing when on the climbs but rarely remember anything about the routes I've climbed unless we are talking crux moves I only just managed to succeed on in fairly recent time. This isn't the case for trad where for instance I can remember some Diffs from decades back; nor is it for bouldering. Those best remembering routes are redpointers who spend time sussing the routes out. I think this makes such lower grade lists harder to construct.
Sports climbs have of course lost major aspects of quality as the risk aspects (in tandem with things like exposure or trusting blind moves that give wow factor to trad) have been removed. The trade off is you can tackle stuff at one's limit in relative safety.
Tophet Wall has been HS for some time and as some 3 star HS routes are better than others, comparing with a route that would usually make a UK top ten list (and for some a top 3) is daft. There are loads of 3 star HS routes on Limestone that deserve their label.
Back on topic, I really enjoy sports climbing when on the climbs but rarely remember anything about the routes I've climbed unless we are talking crux moves I only just managed to succeed on in fairly recent time. This isn't the case for trad where for instance I can remember some Diffs from decades back; nor is it for bouldering. Those best remembering routes are redpointers who spend time sussing the routes out. I think this makes such lower grade lists harder to construct.
Sports climbs have of course lost major aspects of quality as the risk aspects (in tandem with things like exposure or trusting blind moves that give wow factor to trad) have been removed. The trade off is you can tackle stuff at one's limit in relative safety.
In reply to The Ivanator:
Moy Rock (Dingwall)
Creag Bheag (The Mound)
Some of the best low to mid 6s sport I've done in the uk is on the conglomerate crags around Inverness and north.
Im not a fan of limestone, but did enjoy a few days in Portland many years ago. I can't remember any of the routes in detail though, nothing stands out.
Moy Rock (Dingwall)
Creag Bheag (The Mound)
Some of the best low to mid 6s sport I've done in the uk is on the conglomerate crags around Inverness and north.
Im not a fan of limestone, but did enjoy a few days in Portland many years ago. I can't remember any of the routes in detail though, nothing stands out.
2
In reply to The Ivanator:
However much it pains me to recommend a bolted toridonian sandstone crack... This route should also make your list.
Freek (6a+)
However much it pains me to recommend a bolted toridonian sandstone crack... This route should also make your list.
Freek (6a+)
1
In reply to Smelly Fox:
Thanks for highlighting a few more Scottish Options, I had the feeling there was likely to be more worthwhile stuff North of the border. Think there are a few disposable routes further South so I'll try and trim there to make room.
Much as I feel there should be something from Cheddar, there is really nothing outstanding until you get to F6b/+ - then stuff like Opt Out (6b), Goats R Us (6b+), Stone Cold Fever (WW) (6b+), Space Tourist (6b+), The Numb Ones (6b+), Beverly's Wall (6b+) comes into the equation, however at F5 -F6a+ I think the single current selection British Summer Time (6a+) might have to go.
Memories (6a) at High Tor is another that looks vulnerable to a cull, perhaps trim one of the Rhossili Bay routes too. If I had to choose just one route from Moy Rock (Dingwall) & one from Creag Bheag (The Mound) which would you suggest?
Corvus (5c)
Black Streak (6a+)
Fighting off the Vultures (6a+)
Tain Spotting (6a)
Turbine Charged (6a+)
Above The Line (6a)
All look like contenders ...any pointers appreciated.
Thanks for highlighting a few more Scottish Options, I had the feeling there was likely to be more worthwhile stuff North of the border. Think there are a few disposable routes further South so I'll try and trim there to make room.
Much as I feel there should be something from Cheddar, there is really nothing outstanding until you get to F6b/+ - then stuff like Opt Out (6b), Goats R Us (6b+), Stone Cold Fever (WW) (6b+), Space Tourist (6b+), The Numb Ones (6b+), Beverly's Wall (6b+) comes into the equation, however at F5 -F6a+ I think the single current selection British Summer Time (6a+) might have to go.
Memories (6a) at High Tor is another that looks vulnerable to a cull, perhaps trim one of the Rhossili Bay routes too. If I had to choose just one route from Moy Rock (Dingwall) & one from Creag Bheag (The Mound) which would you suggest?
Corvus (5c)
Black Streak (6a+)
Fighting off the Vultures (6a+)
Tain Spotting (6a)
Turbine Charged (6a+)
Above The Line (6a)
All look like contenders ...any pointers appreciated.
In reply to The Ivanator:
The Fly (6a+)
Above The Line (6a)
Probably these are the best of the routes up to 6a+
The Fly (6a+)
Above The Line (6a)
Probably these are the best of the routes up to 6a+
1
In reply to Smelly Fox:
Thanks, will rejig the list. The setting for Freek (6a+) looks awesome, always good to throw in a few routes off the beaten circuit into these lists I think.
Thanks, will rejig the list. The setting for Freek (6a+) looks awesome, always good to throw in a few routes off the beaten circuit into these lists I think.
In reply to The Ivanator:
The views from Glutton Crag are arguably the best of any sport crag I've been to, world wide.
It's pretty controversial that it has been bolted, however the routes are very good.
The views from Glutton Crag are arguably the best of any sport crag I've been to, world wide.
It's pretty controversial that it has been bolted, however the routes are very good.
In reply to Smelly Fox:
Link to revised list http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1381
Feel it is getting close to sorted now, perhaps about 5 in there that are open to replacement if some good suggestions surface. Perhaps another route or two from the Slate could be included?
Are these worthy?
We no speak Americano! (6a)
or Horse Latitudes (6a+)
Link to revised list http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1381
Feel it is getting close to sorted now, perhaps about 5 in there that are open to replacement if some good suggestions surface. Perhaps another route or two from the Slate could be included?
Are these worthy?
We no speak Americano! (6a)
or Horse Latitudes (6a+)
1
In reply to Smelly Fox:
Fiend as ever is on the case:
https://ukc2.com/t/237159.jpg
https://ukc2.com/t/237160.jpg
Who is bolting protectable Torridian sandstone routes in the UK and why hasn't someone chopped them yet? In fact a new thread is needed.
Fiend as ever is on the case:
https://ukc2.com/t/237159.jpg
https://ukc2.com/t/237160.jpg
Who is bolting protectable Torridian sandstone routes in the UK and why hasn't someone chopped them yet? In fact a new thread is needed.
In reply to The Ivanator:
Horse Latitudes is pretty good. It was quite something before it was retroed though! Don't think it got many ascents in its trad form so not sure which style makes best use of the rock
Horse Latitudes is pretty good. It was quite something before it was retroed though! Don't think it got many ascents in its trad form so not sure which style makes best use of the rock
In reply to The Ivanator:
For one at each crag, I would go for Corvus and Tain Spotting. Nothern conglomerate is really Scotlands 'limestone', lending itself well to good sport routes, but as with limestone the best ones tend to be harder. Also consider One in the Eye for the Duke (5c) 6a at Creag an Amalaidh (Princess Cairn) as its good delicate face climbing, made easier by being less steep.
+1 for the inclusion of Silence of the Clams, The Deils Heid (sea stack!) and Tale of the Tape which stand up well against anything of their grade across the UK, imho
> If I had to choose just one route from Moy Rock & one from Creag Bheag which would you suggest?
For one at each crag, I would go for Corvus and Tain Spotting. Nothern conglomerate is really Scotlands 'limestone', lending itself well to good sport routes, but as with limestone the best ones tend to be harder. Also consider One in the Eye for the Duke (5c) 6a at Creag an Amalaidh (Princess Cairn) as its good delicate face climbing, made easier by being less steep.
+1 for the inclusion of Silence of the Clams, The Deils Heid (sea stack!) and Tale of the Tape which stand up well against anything of their grade across the UK, imho
1
In reply to Dr Toph:
OK, further tweaking has taken place, some more Scottish conglomerate is in, I had to go for Ithaca (5c) ...a 55m route with stunning views. Consequently Portland has been trimmed a little (pretty sure the remaining dozen routes are all pretty characterful climbs). On the Slate The Horsin' Around Finish (6a+) replaces Fresh Air (6a) which whilst pleasant doesn't really have the wow factor.
I'm feeling that the geographical balance is better now, Scotland did feel under represented in the earlier drafts. I'm beginning to believe that a case for 3* status could now be made for most climbs on the list without being accused of insanity.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1381
Further route suggestions still welcome, although they will need to be pretty good to dislodge anything from the current selection.
OK, further tweaking has taken place, some more Scottish conglomerate is in, I had to go for Ithaca (5c) ...a 55m route with stunning views. Consequently Portland has been trimmed a little (pretty sure the remaining dozen routes are all pretty characterful climbs). On the Slate The Horsin' Around Finish (6a+) replaces Fresh Air (6a) which whilst pleasant doesn't really have the wow factor.
I'm feeling that the geographical balance is better now, Scotland did feel under represented in the earlier drafts. I'm beginning to believe that a case for 3* status could now be made for most climbs on the list without being accused of insanity.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1381
Further route suggestions still welcome, although they will need to be pretty good to dislodge anything from the current selection.
2
In reply to The Ivanator:
To make use of (most of) the other good suggestions on the thread here's another 50, UK Orange Spot Sport division 2 as it were:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1388
To make use of (most of) the other good suggestions on the thread here's another 50, UK Orange Spot Sport division 2 as it were:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1388
In reply to The Ivanator:
Well done, keep up the good work 'Best UK Sport Routes F6b - F6b+' next?........
Well done, keep up the good work 'Best UK Sport Routes F6b - F6b+' next?........
In reply to The Ivanator:
We No Speak Americano is really good, do it on a hot day, the top pitch is a classic bulging groove and not really like many other slate routes. Horse Lats in my opinion is much finer than Plastic Soldiers which I think is a bit too loose and bitty, but good no the less for its position.
> Are these worthy?
We No Speak Americano is really good, do it on a hot day, the top pitch is a classic bulging groove and not really like many other slate routes. Horse Lats in my opinion is much finer than Plastic Soldiers which I think is a bit too loose and bitty, but good no the less for its position.
1
In reply to Mark Reeves:
Cheers for the lowdown Mark, Horse Latitudes (horsin' around finish version) is in the "A" list and We Speak No Americano makes the second 50 I compiled. Personally I thought Plastic Soldiers was fantastic, great position and I enjoyed the sequences, didn't think it too loose, and the length is a bonus for a UK Sport line.
Cheers for the lowdown Mark, Horse Latitudes (horsin' around finish version) is in the "A" list and We Speak No Americano makes the second 50 I compiled. Personally I thought Plastic Soldiers was fantastic, great position and I enjoyed the sequences, didn't think it too loose, and the length is a bonus for a UK Sport line.
1
In reply to The Ivanator: I am sure a large block fell off it and it needed a few bolts to be replace a while back now.
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