UKC

The older I get, then more I realise that I need to adjust and refine my technique in order to avoid injury, maintain grades (with less strength than I used to have), and have as many years in the hills ahead of me as I possibly can.

Mainly this has been things that would arguably help all climbers, but just seem to be more important to me nowadays. e.g...

Favouring open-hand grips wherever possible, even if a crimp seems like the obvious choice.

Really trying to focus on my footwork and body position

Moving more dynamically, and allowing momentum to take some of the strain

Anyone got any others I should be trying?

In reply to Clinger:

I find being a cantankerous gobby git helps to prevent injury . Also, encourage younger climbers to try things first and put all their effort into it so they get hurt before you do . Then do the route/problem a different way and don't get hurt/injured . ( they recover quicker than older people.)

In reply to Clinger:

An oldie. At 50. I don't think so I climbed my hardest climbs in my mid -50's.

Seriously my best advice would be listen to your body and don't force things. I'm constantly ribbed at the wall for not pushing it and having plenty of sit down rests between climbs but at 67 I've got 10 to 15 years on most of the people there and I'm still climbing at a respectable level after 51 years.

Al

In reply to Clinger:

What fabulous advice from nbonnett and gridnorth

I think the mental attitude is at least 50% of the game. Lots of folk find it hard to accept that they can't do what they did in their 20's and this makes them frustrated, miserable or whatever

Be at peace with your body - don't get cross with it

In reply to Clinger:
Look at it as a new era in your climbing, to be filled with lots of new climbs and adventures - never try and revisit past glories, and never try and compete with the younger you.

Big glorious adventures don't have to have big grades.

Personally I'm having a ball exploring all kinds of new venues and routes, and creating more memories which I can store and then bore the arses off the grandkids with

In reply to All:

Sage advice - Thanks to all.

I've always felt that grades are just a way to widen the range of climbs available for me to have a go at.

Many of my most enjoyable climbing days have been on big mountain Diffs and VDiffs, and there's still plenty of those to go at

In reply to Clinger:

Climb with folk who are older than you, then you have no excuses.

Make sure you are getting the best gear/protection possible. You definitely bounce less well when older.

In reply to Rick Graham:



Actually, I'm still bouncing quite well for an old fart - as I found out last Tuesday!

In reply to Rick Graham:


Climb with folk who are younger than you and don't make any excuses.

In reply to nbonnett:


You Nigel, never, surely not.

In reply to Clinger:
Buy a long clipstick (that will reach the 3rd bolt, well at least the 2nd bolt then)

In reply to Goucho:
I'll echo what others have said. I'm 53 (but still 18 in my head!). Warming up and stretching seem to be more important than ever. I don't notice any loss in strength yet, but any loss may be compensated by better technique, so that I'm not aware.
I don't tend to push things quite as much as I used to (in terms of technical difficulty) but I do seem to have more stamina. I notice this mostly on the road bike - I'm definitely not as fast as the younger ones, but I'm invariably the one to go one for 'a longer loop' when the youngsters have had enough.
I think I'm probably more risk-averse than I used to be too - seen too much of the consequences when things go wrong.
But, most importantly, my enthusiasm and love for being outdoors doing some activity or other, whether it be climbing, walking, biking, kayaking is as strong or stronger than ever. Every trip out, in fine weather or foul, is a day to be savoured.
I'm always reminded of John Barry's essay on Comb Gully in Cold Climbs: which is along the line of 'best climbed in the slow accumulation of pleasure as insurance against that day when the power and the passion are lost'.
50 ain't old, its just the start of another chapter!
N

In reply to Clinger:

If you're profile is up to date and you are indeed 50 it's far too soon to think about it. Like Gridnorth, (see above) I was climbing as well as I ever had in my mid 50s. That'd be E2. Now 70 and 51 years into my climbing career I can still manage E1 leads if I put my mind to it. And bear in mind I come from a land where training and indoor climbing hadn't been thought of, and I still go about life as if they hadn't. Assuming you do espouse the athletic approach you've nothing to worry about at all. Just go climbing.

In reply to Martin Bennett:

Well played! Let's hope I follow the same trajectory. As for 50 being too early - it certainly feels like I need a little bit more oomph to get up things nowadays, but maybe it's just a patch. No harm in planning ahead anyway.

In reply to Martin Bennett:

That's just because you come from the wrong side of the hill Martin. Now if you had lived in the white rose county you would have been well into your training in the 70's!!!

In reply to Clinger:
I started climbing at 48, and have had a great ten years exploring remote crags in Yorkshire such as Great Wolfrey, Brandrith and Simon's Seat, as well as the classics. Getting out into the landscape and exploring is half the fun. The best way to avoid injury is to spend more time climbing outdoors than indoors! The only rubbish place I have found was Penistone Quarry last week! Don't go there!

In reply to Goucho:

>.... as I found out last Tuesday!

That sounds like a story, do tell.

In reply to Martin Bennett:


Agree.

[To Clinger]

Keep the fire burning. The love rekindles. It really does.

Mick

In reply to Clinger:

I find that burying my head in the sand and being in complete denial about getting older works wonders, as I'm still not convinced I'm any less capable in grade-terms than I was ten, twenty or thirty years ago.

Now if only I could find as much time to devote to climbing as I did then ...

In reply to Clinger:

It's definitely true that you injure more easily as you age and that you take longer to recover from injury. So avoid it! Use climbing walls in a leisurely and un-competitive fashion and only when you can't do real climbing. If only I could take my own advice - tweaked an elbow last week indoors, probably owing to the "just do one more" idiocy. Trouble is we baby boomers who grew up wi' nowt like to get value for money, fools that we are.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:



We've got an old 2 storey alpine cow barn at the bottom of the garden. Whilst we're deciding what to do with it, I've turned the outside into a rudimentary climbing wall.

Last Tuesday I fell off near the top, failing to notice that Mrs G had been out and cleared the paths of snow, so instead of landing in a nice deep snowbank, I landed on hard ice.

Apart from a nice bruise on my thigh, I was fine, and still able to spend the rest of the day almost keeping up with Mrs G on the piste.

In reply to Martin Bennett:

Tis true. Martin led me up Golden Compass in Morroco back in November. It looked E2 from below, so a cracking lead for him. I reckon this retirement malarky must be worth a couple of extra grades judging from what i've seen

In reply to Clinger:

50 is not old in climbing terms. I personally know a very accomplished rock climber who didn't even take the sport till he was in his 60's.

In reply to Goucho:

More old school than Saint Trinian's! You'll be out there next with a monster sac, in a whiteout, after three days without food, and Mrs G giving it, "Come on, put some sodding effort in!"

Mick

In reply to Clinger:
I am 59 and hit 60 in August my tips are.

Just refuse to consider that you will not be as good a climber as when you were 25 or 30. I think that lots of people decline because they assume they will not be as good as when they were younger so it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

Get the weight under control for me its been the most significant factor in whether I am happy with how I climb

Really think about your training. You really need to be clear about why you are doing what you are doing and why your not training something else in that session.

Work out what your weaknesses are and spend a lot of time working on them

Take your time to warm up properly

Train as hard as you can and do more than your mates

Make sure you build good rest into your programme. I have been using rest days to work on flexiblity (there are some pretty good videos around if you search yoga for climbing).

Get out your comfort zone - hard to do but your never going to get up anything significant unless you get on it in the first place.

Climb with folks that are keen

Always have the next trip booked to go to some amazing to help keep the motivation up

Stay keen and happy climbing
Kipper

In reply to Goucho:

Ouch, glad you didn't do any damage.

New type of climbing- deep snow soloing?

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Conversely I think I'm much better at avoiding injury now since I'm more aware of my limits and think before I pull! But I 'm using walls more systematically now and climbing on sport, generally better than I was 25 years ago

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:


Think it's been around for yonks (weather permitting)

In reply to Removed UserMike Rhodes:


Aye you could be right, though it's well known the Leeds '75 revolution which brought about going to the gym or wall instead of the pub and supping orange juice not beer was brought about by the local denizens not through any desire to be better climbers but to avoid buying a round!

In reply to Clinger:

it greatly helps if you've never been a really good climber. i took care of that when young, so now is not much of a difference.

i second that venturing to new places / adventures and combing the climbing with travel helps.

In reply to Clinger:

I think doing really heavy weights is meant to be good for anyone over, erm, age thirty something. Deadlifts and squats with heavy weights is meant to trigger the release of something, growth hormone perhaps?, that you stop producing once you reach thirty.

In reply to Clinger:

Never hears such nonsense. You've a long way to go to reach your peak judging by your profile and certainly capable of doing it at young middle age. Just get on and do it.

In reply to Clinger:

Clinger - live up to your name and get a grip

In reply to Clinger:

Some things to consider:
Ben Moon did a 9a last year at 49 and doesn't have any intention of making it his last one. Bill Ramsey, a life long U.S climber climbed his hardest route at age 54 - an 8c. I think there's a Spanish guy who climbed 8c at 60. Cathy Wagner, who at 50 last year, had her best year ever. She climbed 51 routes of 8a or harder. I know someone who has climbed an 8a or harder, every year for the past twenty something years. Last year he was 62. Rab Carrington, another lifelong climber, climbed his first 8a at age 59.

In short I think there's no reason for average climbers not to climb into the 8s when over 50, and the talented will doubtless still make the 9s.

In reply to Clinger:

I agree with all your ideas to avoid injury, though I think they go for anyone of any age.

I'm finding I get far more injuries as an older climber. I think I must have averaged about 20 injuries per year for the past couple of years. Though that might not just be age. It might be more down to getting back into climbing after a mostly 10+ year layoff. Hopefully this year will be better. I think the key to avoiding injury might be to try to keep flawless technique, particularly at the point when the climbing is most difficult and you're about to fail. Don't thrash in other words. Admittedly this is hard to do when you're completely pumped but I think this is the point when most injuries happen.

Getting stronger is another obvious one. I think particularly around the shoulders, where a lot of climbers get injured. Don't forget to train the antagonists. I think training core stability might be another very sensible idea in this regard.

In reply to Martin Bennett:

Oh Martin. I know lots of climbers from over t'hill that are just as thrifty as a Yorkshireman but I agree that there were a few people who had deep pockets and short arms.

In reply to stp:


Really? I must have been doing something very wrong then. "Average climbers" surely never reach "into the 8's" at any age.

Not sure what Clinger would make of your reply either. I took a quick look at his log. Seems like a real "average" climber to me. A few sport 6's, lots of trad Severe - HVS. Likes long mountain routes. And having lots of fun I guess.

I'm 65 and having been climbing 50 years. I think in the last 15 years (since 50) I've steadily got better at conserving energy, planning the next move(s) etc. I've visited climbing walls more often which has helped me retain my strength and I've started to make more use of things I've learnt at the climbing wall (Egyptian-type moves etc are useful even on VS's). I've not consciously done anything to avoid injury but I've been relatively lucky (out of action now for 6 months following an operation, but otherwise just one injury that has interrupted my climbing in the last 15 years). Above all, I've kept enjoying it!

Martin

In reply to john arran:


I'm finding it also helps to have been as mediocre as possible earlier, so that there's plenty of room for improvement later without actually having to become *good*.

John has irrevocably blown his chances of trying this strategy.

In reply to AlanLittle: I too am hoping that this strategy will work for me.

In reply to Clinger:

Good advice from Kipper-Phil Smith and stp.

There's an excellent article in the current Climb magazine by Steve McClure on just this topic. Inspiring stuff. And also an interview with Stevie Haston who is, of course, a case in point.

Personally I'm climbing harder in my 50s than I was in my 30s, partially that's down to training and having a keen partner but also a mindset that age shouldn't make a big difference. Just stay motivated, try to avoid injury (or manage injury as Steve says in his article) and get on with it!

In reply to Clinger:

You guys might be interested in this FB group I set up for more "mature" climbers

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1544072675849853/

In reply to Martin Hore:


You summed me up pretty perfectly Martin - I'm very happy just getting out into the mountains and climbing the stuff I can. I have no particular desire to be climbing 8s although I have deep respect for those who choose that path and achieve their goals.

My motivation to get better has always been in order to widen the number of climbs I can have a go at, but there's so many stunning sub-E-grade routes around that it's not really a big problem if I don't improve.

I just want to keep doing it as long as possible.

In reply to All:

I love this thread - So much inspiration and genuine love of the hills on display. My resolve to keep training, stay fit, and get out there whenever I can has been redoubled.

Thanks to all for such fantastic replies.

In reply to Simon Alden:



What a great idea. Do you have outdoor meets and/or people who live further afield. If so I would be very interested.

Al

In reply to Clinger:
My latest offering after a couple of winter outings in the Lakes is put your crampons on as soon as you reach the hard snow/ice and when descending keep them on till they're definitely more of a hindrance than a help. I've decided that sharpening your crampons points is a lot less inconvenient than a broken hip.
But you're a bit young to be worrying on that score.

In reply to Clinger:

I've only just started going down to the local wall after a lay off of over 25 years.

Everything is so different. I feel like grandad surrounded by lithe ridiculousness where everyone seems to have their feet permanently next to their ears?

And though my head and body remember's the way it should move, it doesn't seem to be able to put it into practise at present.

Still, hopefully it's like riding a bike?

In reply to Clinger: Old at 50 you must be joking ... since I was that young I have produced over 300 FA's ..

In reply to GridNorth:

I'm based in Malta so there's v few "older" climbers here actually, apart from myself, Stevie Haston and a couple of others. Feel free to join us here for a couple of routes anytime Nothing to stop you from organising an oldies meet in the Uk though!

In reply to Simon Alden:

I've just joined the Facebook group and noticed one or two people that I know so I might well do that when the weather gets a little warmer.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:

It's been warm all winter! We're still climbing in tee-shirts and looking for shade! It's also been the driest winter in 50 years. Very weird indeed.

In reply to Simon Alden:

The thing I have noticed most as I have got older is that I feel the cold so much more. In fact I sold all my ice climbing gear earlier this year as I did not enjoy my last couple of trips to Cogne and Rjukan. It's warm rock climbing only for me from now on.

I don't think of myself as old but rather someone who is available to climb mid-week.

Al

In reply to Martin Hore:

Sorry, perhaps that didn't come out right. What I meant was the potential of average climbers. I think, if they wanted to, a climber with average potential could still climb pretty hard in their fifties. Of course, as at all ages, we'll only get close to our potential with dedication and hard work.

If an average climber is defined as someone who just climbs casually a few times a week and doesn't train at all then they won't get anywhere near their potential climbing limit. But there's nothing to stop such a climber changing their habits a bit and climbing a bit or even a lot harder, should they choose to, even in their fifties.

I think climbing has changed a lot over the past few decades. There are lot of excellent indoor walls around now and there's a lot more knowledge about how to improve and that knowledge is highly accessible with the internet. So I think the potential of climbers of all ages is much greater than in the past.

In reply to stp:


I think I'd agree with that, but your original post said "into the 8's" which equates to something more than "pretty hard" in my book. But then I approach any outdoor sport climbing I do with my trad hat on - almost always on-sight no falls - so I'm probably not well placed to judge.

I did peek quickly at your log-book though and I didn't spot any 8's (just a pretty impressive list of 7's). So does that mean you're below "average" in potential or don't "want it" enough? (Very cheeky I know - I deliberately don't log my climbs on here - but there would be nothing above E2 to log, on either end of the rope).


Well I think anyone who owns their own kit and enjoys getting out once or twice a month counts as a "climber". So that probably is where we fundamentally disagree. Very happy to agree with you though about the over 50's. That for me is one reason why climbing is such a great sport - you can carry on into late middle-age without having to drop your standard too much.

Martin

In reply to Martin Hore:


That may not be the case for this latest generation who like indoors and competitions and seem to be increasing in number more rapidly than trad climbers. I suspect they are more likely to be past it by 25, like many other sports, and all the best performers will be in their teens.

Al

In reply to Clinger:


I'd say the main problem with aging is the psychology. As for the rest, it's not age that's the problem but things like injury, health conditions such as arthritis and then more generally, lack of strength, lack of fitness, skills in need of improvement etc. etc.

All of the above are statistically more likely to occur as you get older, so if you see yourself as a statistic, then it's probably time to file yourself away and shut the drawer. But if you don't, if you don't have (for the sake of argument) arthritis, then you don't have arthritis, period, no matter what your age. Similar principles apply to all the other things, bar perhaps the psychology. As for managing the risk, avoiding injury and other preventative measures, those are good things to think about whatever your age and there it's a balance between too fearful and not fearful enough!

In reply to Andy Morley:

The psychological part is that I can imagine my bone snapping rather more easily than they did when I took a couple of 20 - 30' ground falls in my teens, physically I definitely can't do the 'left leg above left ear' moves that I used to be able to.

Still good for the odd gentlemanly step up, though.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:


Just beautiful!

Mick

In reply to Martin Hore:


Absolutely not. I was using what I think you meant by the term 'average climber'. Perhaps 'typical climber' would be a better, less loaded phrase. I have no problem with climbers who don't climb often and have no desire to push themselves particularly hard. I think whatever makes you happy in climbing is the most, in fact only, important thing. In the context of this thread though the point I'm trying to make is that even for older climbers our potential is much higher than we might imagine.

In reply to GridNorth:


That's a really interesting thought and seems likely to happen at some point. It will be interesting to see if that turns out to be true. Sharma is still performing pretty well though, now in his 30s and his hardest F.A. last year. In a recent interview he said Spanish top climber and coach Paxti Usobiaga was telling him he could do a 9c.

And there's a lot to climbing. So what you lose as you get older may be offset to some degree by experience gained.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:


That's an interesting one. Though the concrete reality is that maybe your bones might not be as strong at 60 as they were at 20, for some people at any rate, the real issue is the perception of the risk, which as you correctly point out is all inside your head. Physically, that risk is not the thing that may be stopping you from climbing so hard as maybe you used to.

I think that the way to approach that one, taking a psychological perspective, is that any fall is potentially dangerous for anyone at any age and you can't guarantee no broken bones even at 20. What that could mean is that actually your skills at measuring risks has improved with age and that now you have a better idea, you're better placed to avoid them. But it doesn't always work like that - some people become overly fearful with advancing age and become risk-averse. In that context, it's worth remembering that there are other risks than falling off a cliff, some of the biggest risks associated with old-age come from 'thinking yourself old' and stopping doing things so that you become less fit and healthy as a result. 50 or 60 years ago, I know for a fact, many civil servants only lived for a couple of years or so after they retired, because of the culture back then. Even worse were postmen who spent their lives being active and then took to staying in watching the telly after they retired. They usually dropped dead within about 18 months.

In reply to stp:


Well, I'm very happy to agree with all of that!

Martin

In reply to Andy Morley:

Maybe the real reason us oldies don't want to push it out like we used to, is that we're not angry anymore?

In reply to Goucho:


I'm actually quite angry now you've referred to 'us oldies'. Please be aware that I am only acting in an advisory capacity to you old guys. Impudent young whippersnapper!

In reply to Clinger:

'Old folks' Jeez, there are loads of folks in their 50s, 60s and above still climbing really well, if not by most peoples standards 'hard', and more importantly enjoying it, whatever they are doing.

Some may be more cautious, with artificial hips and knees can adding to the risks when falling onto ground or mats. But plenty still get stuck in.

By the time you're there most of us know how to 'train' in a way that works for you. I'd definitely concede that what works becomes increasingly specific to the individual.

Get stuck in.

Steve