UKC

Hi Guys,

The other day I was climbing with a friend of mine who is an experienced climber on some classic granite multipitch.

Anyway, I lead him up this route that should be well inside his ability and he got himself psyched out and said he couldn't carry on.

Ordinarily I'd have used and assisted hoist and got him out of there, not issues at all, but the route in question had a lot of traversing and this traversing went under an overhang. He couldn't pull on gear, it was out of reach, he couldn't retreat the moves he had climbed, and he couldn't be lowered off without facing quite a long swing, and I couldn't get a loop of rope to him.

This resulted in a log drawn out and very improvised rescue, which I could have done quicker if I had disregarded safety. Being always keen to develop my personal skills, I've been trying to find an easier way I could have rescued him.

Any ideas?

Or is safe improvisation the only way?

In reply to Joel Perkin:

Without knowing the actual route/layout, (and without being a criticism but a possible workaround) i would suggest stop this situation happening


by protecting the second better when leading, and thus making an eventual rescue easier to deal with. In routes with a bit of traversing ideally you split the ropes so that one of them is always right above, even if that means clipping 2, 3 or even 4 anchors with the same rope in a row saving the second for when you traverse back or are high up so that any swing is lessened.

In reply to Joel Perkin:

It's hard to say with the datum you've provided. How far was he from the next runner? If he was facing a lengthy pendulum, I guess it was quite far but that my explains his reluctance/fear? I assume he was unable to make himself safe where he was with the gear he had already extracted?

In reply to Joel Perkin:

Avoidance would be best. If it was in their capability and they got psyched out, then you need to stop that. Why did they get psyched out? Not seeing you do the move? Too long alone? Too cold? No gear?

Sounds like you needed to put more gear in to protect their pendulum of they came off, or make one of the ropes more of a top rope for them and not put gear on it. Either would have made your rescue easier, or not required. Could they have lead the traverse? Cos that's what it can feel like when seconding with a long swing. If you don't tell them about the swing they can be okay....

In reply to Joel Perkin:

As Mr Lopez commented, protecting the second better may have helped

On traverses, it's not uncommon for a leader to place some gear to protect a hard move for himself, afterwards romping on over easier ground, forgetting that the second has to take the protection out before the move.

In reply to Joel Perkin:

The comments show it was this route:
Spider's Web (HVS 5a)

... and your partner's log book may be missing a few climbs since last October, but it seems you may have been a bit ambitious early on in the new season with someone who may well have the technical ability, but judging by the grades and styles of ascent, perhaps not the confidence to handle exposure yet. It's speculation on my part, but it sounds like he didn't feel comfortable with the protection you placed on the traverse, obviously you have to place it to protect yourself, but there is an art to leaving your second protected too and half ropes can help a lot with this, how much did you think about your second when placing the gear?

In reply to Joel Perkin:

How did you end up rescuing your partner?

In reply to jonnie3430:



I'd agree with this. As EddInabox found out, ytour partner had never lead more than HS. Seconding a traverse can feel like leading and trying to do your first HVS" lead " on the second pitch of a route might be a little intimidating.......

In reply to Joel Perkin:
Someone once wrote that the leader owes a unique responsibility to the second. The leader is in control of the climbing; they can choose to lace the route, to run it out, or indeed to retreat. They can build a strong belay or a less strong belay, they can choose the route and (where variations exist) where to go.

The second has no control, and has to accept the decisions the leader makes. Their protection and safety derives only from what the leader chose to leave for them. Their safety depends on the amount of gear the leader used to protect traverses and downclimbs, and on the quality of the belay they built.

For this reason, the protection of the second should always be a priority for the leader, regardless of the ability or boldness of the second.

In reply to Mr Lopez:


A little ingenuity and planning can sometimes help but sometimes you're unavoidable both on-lead at certain points.

OP: Without knowing what you did and where it's hard to suggest what you might have done better. Since you both survived it sounds like you did good enough

One quick and dirty trick is for the second to safely pull down a loop rope and tie back in short so there's a 10-15m tail hanging from them. They can then use that as a self-belayed back rope to the last piece of gear they passed or a recycled piece off their harness placed for that purpose. Once the moves have been figured out they can be reversed, the gear can be retrieved and the bold section 'redpointed'. Alternatively the gear can be abandoned if that's the better option. Sometimes you get lucky and the gear is fixed or it's a sling that can be flicked free. I've used this a few times following a mate across bold stuff several grades out of my league in some pretty serious positions. Worth discussing ahead of time if your partner isn't the problem solving type when stressed.

I think it's fair to say that once you're off the simplest of pre-practiced plans it's always about improvisation. Having the right tools (skills and equipment) are more important than having a known solution to each and every problem.
jk

In reply to Joel Perkin:

Every MIA trainee stresses about getting a traverse rescue on their assessment!

Well done on sorting it

In reply to jkarran:

+1

Good to see back roping techniques mentioned.

Also the route ( and crag height presumably ) is only 33 metres., so quite feasible to lower the second to safety on the ground. The leader could then retrieve the gear on abseil, if necessary doing two or three abs to get at different lines of gear.

On longer multi pitch, you will need to have more reserve tricks and skills like jkarran suggested.

In reply to Joel Perkin:

Was the route totally obvious to the second? i.e. was there no doubt about which way the climb went?

In reply to Joel Perkin:

Normally such things are solved by the second lowering out from a piece (all seconds should learn this), then either being lowered to the ground/stance or then prusiking up over the hard bit/or to the next piece then repeating.

If he really couldn't get a piece in to lower off / out and the swing was massive, then on this route (I know it well) I would have:

1. escaped belay - 3mins
2. prusiked down a few metres so I could see him and communicate well (this would be more a 5metre scramble on this route) - 3mins. if you thought he might fail, maybe you had belayed within sight.
2. extract one of the ropes from the climb and climbers - 3mins
3. return to the top - 3mins
4. set an abseil from the top and over the roof - 5mins
5. rap down to above the climber - 1min.
6. tie off rap device. 1min
7. throw rope to second and get them to tie in - 2min
8. lower them from a munter or monster munter (they might have to swing safely into space if they were stuck right under the roof). 5min.

25mins.

I would then also rap to the ground, find another second to complete the route, or run back up and rap for the gear, or put a microtaxion on the second's rope and TR solo it to remove gear.

Hope that helps.

All the best.

In reply to Joel Perkin:

To the OP....

Just out of curiosity, when you say you carried out an "improvised rescue", would you be able to run us through what you did? It might be that your improvised rescue was actually the best option. Please share!

I'd probably fold like a sheet of A4 if presented with your scenario!

In reply to David Coley:

You do things faster than me!

In reply to DannyC:


If so, only because (a) I do practice this kind of thing, (b) my seconds seem to get stuck a lot!

In reply to David Coley:

This thread is a healthy reminder that I should practice these things more often!
D.

In reply to Joel Perkin:

Not very helpful asking what you could have done better without actually saying what you did do! Please enlighten us.

In reply to Rick Graham:


Yes. Difficult to be dogmatic about a specific situation (and it's been a long time since I did the route) but in general I think the answer is use double ropes and leave one clipped as a back rope to protect the start of intimidating traverses.

Assuming they have some gear they can then place some extra protection on the rope ahead of them and then reverse to the stance to unclip the back rope. Even if they can't place more gear, just practising the initial moves on a back rope can often give the confidence to then unclip the back rope, take a deep breath, and sprint to safety!

I've done my share of following intimidating traverses and that's what I generally do...

In reply to Dave Garnett:

And worst comes to the worst you just have to leave the gear on the back rope (untie the rope and pull it through). Obviously you'd want it to be a nut not a cam!

In reply to Joel Perkin:

Hi Joel,
In these situations you have to think about yourself. Ask yourself (a) how well do you know this guy? and (b) if you never climb with him again, how likely is it that you'll run into him at a later date? If the answers are (a) not very well and (b) not very likely, then the solutions become much simpler. I offer you these two as food for thought:-
1. Escape from the system and walk back to the car.
Unfortunately this means that you lose all your gear so a better answer (as long as your friend is of the suggestible persuasion) would be:
2. convince him to clip directly in to the nearest piece of gear using his belay loop and then to untie himself from the rope (you said he was already freaking out which is good - desperate people are often more suggestible). Once he's done this you're free to pull the rope up and abseil to retrieve the rest of your gear from the pitch. It's fortunate that he was on a traverse so you he won't be on the line of your ab otherwise he might in a position to question your actions or cause other such unpleasantness. When on the ground it'll be a simple matter to convince anyone else at the crag that the shouting man clipped to the wire under the overhang is nothing to do with you before wandering back to the car.
Hope this helps, let me know if I can help with anything else,
Cheers,
P.

In reply to Joel Perkin:

Hi Joel

Well done on getting your mate out of the situation one way or another.

Others have provided greater detail of how to do it.

But as someone said above, looking at the log book of your second, I wouldn't have taken them on Spiders Web in the first place until they had had plenty of old school HVS-5a seconds under their belt.

Spiders Web is a route I know very well. I have led and seconded it with ease and led and seconded it with considerably less ease - much dependent on conditions and mental attitude on the day. It's an old school Tom Patey piece of brilliance which is thin and quite exposed in places.

One of my worst ever climbing experiences was seconding a mate of mine on it on a hot and very sweaty summer's day 20 years ago when I had forgotten my chalk bag. I got to the crux on pitch 1 (the step across around the bulging arête onto the slab) only to find it very slippery, covered in lichen and that my eejit leader had decided not to place any runners between the start of the crux and the belay (circa 15ft?). I took out the last piece of gear and saw the loop of rope between me and him and the potential huge pendulum down and below the roofs. The rock was so greasy, it felt marginal. I was terrified. He thought it was funny and told me to man up. I made the moves, raged on arriving at the belay and never climbed with him again. Very bad leading.

The second pitch on which your mate had difficulties is not easy because it weaves right (via that thin step over onto the slab) to gear, then up, then back left a long way under a 3-4 foot strip overhang, which further overhangs and overlaps above that, which is completely out of sight from your leader. The footholds are thin going leftwards towards the arête with a lip of a roof and void below. There's gear in the crack running along the overhang but it's easy to block some of the handholds. It's also easy for the leader to create very bad drag (for themselves and the second) - and to make life hard and scary for the second.

When I last did it (second) a few years ago, the leader protected it such that the right hand rope (looking in) ran in a straight line upwards over the first part of the traverse and overhang above, which provided some comfort. But I was almost pulled backwards into space (due to the overhang above) when he took in too tight. In the meantime, there was drag on the left rope and he left long loops of slack which was somewhat disconcerting. He couldn't hear me because I was below the overhangs and I ended up screaming for slack on the right hand rope and take in on the left hand rope.

If my second fell on the P2 traverse, I wouldn't want to lower them to the ground if at all possible. At least one rope would be running over the overhangs/overlaps then the edge of the 3-4 foot strip roof, then the lip of the roofs below.

Generally, I'm not a fan of the Dewerstone. It's seen as a nice, easy, safe crag to build up through the grades. But on warm, sweaty days, the rock can feel smooth and soapy and has far less friction than the Haytor area. In the last 10-15 years, there have been some fatalities and major accidents there for whatever reason (at one stage, it seemed there was almost one a year) - a disproportionately high rate on local crags.

I once witnessed someone who was seconding - yes, seconding - deck from 40 feet (conjecture - leader had slack in the belay system and when the second fell, leader was pulled forwards and possibly over the edge and let go of the rope? - this happened to a friend of mine from Uni at Almscliff years ago). I assume and very much hope the second survived because the police never called back for a witness statement.

Incidentally, if you want some other Tom Patey classics down here, then there's Sarcophagus and Chudleigh Overhang at Chudleigh (neither of which should be underestimated for various reasons), the great Outward Bound on Lowman (burly first half into delicate second half) and the brilliant and very well-protected Leviathan at Dewerstone.

Have fun.

C