UKC

So I've started focusing my efforts at the wall by following a training plan. The plan requires me to work out my V number at the start of every week (adding together the V grades of your top 8 boulder problems) this left me wondering what would your score be? and how often do you train?
I got 32 and started training twice a week about 3 weeks ago after a year of not training.

In reply to Jackspratt:

I don't "train" when I go to the wall though we just climb a load of easy problems to warm up (V0-V3'ish) then a few mid grade problems (V3-V5'ish) then get working on some harder ones, normally a few V6-7's and maybe complete a V8 or two if we're on form.

So based on a typical session I'd approximate a score of 48+ based on an average of V6 for my top 8 in any one session.

In reply to Jackspratt:

Interesting measurement. However many walls don't use the V system and also don't grade individual problems (just give a circuit average grade).

In reply to stp:

Yeah I've also found it difficult because the grades are vague so purple v3-v5 how do I know which one it is? I've been picking the lower end so as not to cheat but my score may actually be higher.

In reply to Jackspratt:

Same at the wall I use, they are broadly grades circuits so you just have to estimate the actual grade based on experience. Although sometimes the harder ones have individual grades.

In reply to Lord_ash2000:

yeah at mine black routes are competition but it doesn't say what grade they are.

In reply to Jackspratt:

72 points, train 6 days a week or more.

Would suggest benchmarking your progress with how much added weight you can hang with on a medium campus rung, or how much added weight you can do 5 good pull ups with, how long you can hold a lever for

Indoor wall/outdoor grades are a naff indicator as its just a vague guess and can dependant on so many variables.

In reply to alx:
Yeah its all subjective at the end of the day. What do you mean by holding a lever. Also I'm trying to train myself for harder multipitch climbs such as E15b-E2

In reply to Jackspratt:
Front lever,
Start by hanging off a bar and tucking yourself into a ball and rolling your knees up into your chest, slowly drop out of this and repeat.
Once you can do 10 of these reps in a set, start to not bring your knees in as close to your chest before rolling up and down - imagine if you are sat on a chair position but roll around the shoulder.

Eventually you should be able to work up to having your legs and body completely straight but roll slowly around the shoulders.

Holding a flat front lever is a pretty mean benchmark of good core and shoulder strength.

Regarding your training, make sure you work your strength lots. It will simply mean the holds feel better and the moves easy as such easier to endure. You can't endure your way past a move at your limit.

In reply to Jackspratt:


I suspect that of you can work 8 new V4s in the course of a session (I assume you don't get these V points for repeating stuff you already know? Or can you get to 32 by lapping the same problem you've got wired 8 times?) that more than likely its not your ability to work boulder problems which is the limiting factor in you climbing E1.

In reply to Jackspratt:

If you're banging out multiple V4s in a session you're definitely capable of climbing E1-E2 already. Have you tried any?

Also what you're doing down the wall isn't really training it's just going bouldering indoors. Specificity is critical when it comes to training for climbing. What are your weaknesses? This can be very difficult to know, so it can be good to climb with the better climbers at the wall, and ask them to be super critical of your climbing.

How often are you climbing trad? Is your logbook up to date? If you really want to get into the E grades you need to concentrate on specifity again. Climb outdoors, and when you do go outdoors actually climb. That means instead of doing 3-4 routes a day do 10-15. If you're at single pitch crags don't ever second a route (unless it's too hard for you), pull the rope and lead on your mates gear.
If you're always leading, it becomes normal, you become efficient at placing gear, building belays, rope management and you can concentrate just on the climbing.

Front levers for E1 is like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. I can guarantee they are not the reason you're not climbing E grades.

In reply to deacondeacon:
I'm not so sure about your first point.. I 'bang out' multiple indoor problems given V4 in a session. In reality they are not anything like V4, some are V0 and not as hard as many a crack E1 crux and I'm above a soft mat with no rack nor rope. So even with all my experience I am only leading proper E1 on a good day. Your following advice is obviously good: experience leading in volume on real rock and a good level of fitness is more important.

In reply to Offwidth:


I really want to climb at that wall.

In reply to Offwidth:
Where are you climbing that has V4's that feel like V0's? That's just poor grading.
if you're bouldering V4 and struggling on E1's you're lacking in another part of your climbing other than strength.
I really enjoy those hideous HVS-E1 sandbag cracks as I just don't find them that bad (but obviously enjoy watching mates getting there arse kicked). It's never strength that gets me up them but technique and determination.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

You probably do, as I climb at a few walls like this. It's a problem with modern indoor circuits that the easier problems often drift well below the advertised range. Outdoors things are different... I was at Robin Hoods Stride the other day and was humbled by getting completely spanked by this V1 (the proper way.. just using the right arete), even though I've done it many times in the past.

Muscle Slab (f5)

In reply to deacondeacon:


I remember watching you on The Vice. While the technique (bouldery heel-hooking approach with accomplished jamming) and determination (you made some pretty weird noises during the top-out) were critical, I don't think that being a strong boulderer did you much harm either. Even if you're not feeling "strong", you're starting from a high base.

Totally agree with your advice to the OP. The only way to lead E1/2, is to go and lead a load of HVS and then try harder routes. Don't expect that doing anything in the wall is immediately going to translate to trad: the strength and skill from indoors is useful, but it takes some experience to learn how to apply it. Bouldering grade just isn't relevant, the crux of an E1/2 is most likely to be V0. Well is could be V5 Mounting Frustration (f6C)* I suppose, but that should be easy to suss out before setting off.

*Still never done it. Hard V6?

In reply to Jon Stewart:




Me neither. The clocks have changed, let's get on it one night after work, before the midgies start

In reply to deacondeacon:
That is what I said.. poor grading compared to what I am used to outdoors. To be fair V4 (f6B) problems that are V0 (YMC or VG f4+) are less common but V grades ranges that are two grades too easy are quite common for the easiest problems in the easier circuits that I try at different indoor walls. Even Nottingham Wall, the hardest grading I know, had one of its old UK 6a problems (normally solid V4/ f6B) that was f5/V1 once.

I'd climb better with less beer and pies but I'm a happy chap with what I can do.

In reply to deacondeacon:

Yes, I can do Stanage by 7 Mon Tues, I'm off work Weds Thurs, and Fri-Sat are write-off.

In reply to Offwidth:


Not sure what YMC and VG are. But maybe the issue is that your climbing strengths and weaknesses are signifcantly different from those of the typical climbing wall customer because you climb outside a lot. Maybe you find some specific styles of problem easy which most indoor climbers would find hard. In which case if the wall grades so that a typical customer finds a V4 full of slopers roughly as hard as a V4 on a slab and a V4 on a steep overhang you might think the V4 on the slab or slopers was too easy. The wall might think that having grades that looked consistent across problem styles for an average customer was more important than matching their grades to guidebook grades for outdoor problems and they'd be right.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
I'm pretty good at judging grades and knowing my own strengths and weaknesses and allowing for them, having worked on guidebooks for over a decade. YMC are the people who produce guidebooks in Yorkshire and VG did the Peak bouldering guide they have a sensible common standard. I used that as font grades in font are too hard at f5 and below.

These indoor grades are often just wrong and it's worse with big walls using V grades; motivated I'm sure to encourage beginners as V grades don't help.. V0 is pretty hard.. a standard Uk tech 5a problem in the UK (and a standard UK tech 5b in the US). You can't set grades to meet customer skill sets as they are different and change with time... you would go round in circles. Outdoor standards are the only sensible way, especially now Font grades are defined meaningfully in UK guides... f4 ~UK4c, f4+ ~UK5a, f5 ~UK5b etc.

In reply to Offwidth:

Sure you can. And in fact you need to because you will get far more complaints about grading from paying customers if the grades are not closely related to their perception of difficulty than if the grades are not closely related to outdoor grades in a specific guidebook.

Customers expect the lowest grade to feel easy, each grade to feel noticeably harder than the previous one and grades across problem types to feel reasonably consistent. It is also nice if they align with other nearby walls. If they align with outdoor grades that is a bonus. The main thing is customers can look at the number and get an idea how hard it is going to be for them which means the grades need to reflect the skills of the average customer.

It doesn't matter much if indoor grades change a little when customer skill sets change because
a. customer skills sets won't change unless the wall starts doing something radically different
b. the old problems get taken down before a difference in grading between old and new problems becomes an issue.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

All of that can be acheived with proper benchmarked grades. The stuff likely to cause problems for indoor climbers (esp. cracks and thrutches) are rarely set indoors.

The problems I usually have an issue with on grading are normal uncomplicated hold to hold type problems on stamdard steep slab, walls and overhangs. If you want to have a circuit with a range use VB and V0-.... don't grade VB problems V0 and V0 problems V2.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:


You're over thinking it. The grades in walls are set randomly.

Although I recognise what Offwidth says about having walls where V0-V3 are actually all different flavours of V0 so that beginners have got a sensible starting point and progression.

In reply to Offwidth:


I agree that there's usually not much difference between VB and V0. Some setters use VB and others just call everything V0 and TBH I don't care because they are both warm ups.

V2 that feels like V0 hardly ever happens and if you got a V3 that felt like V0 it would be Christmas. Maybe there's a particular problem in some walls in your part of the world.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

A UK 5a tech problem is not a warm up for most beginers indoors nor if it is given V2 are the prospects good if said climber tries to find suitable problems outside.

In reply to Offwidth:


Why on earth drag UK trad climbing grades into indoor bouldering? It's like trying to explain nice simple SI units like meters in terms of crazy imperial ones like furlongs.

Everybody knows what V0 means indoors. It means easy but not quite a ladder. If it meant something else 20 years ago or means something else outdoors then that is unfortunate but not really a huge problem.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Maybe because there are direct equivalents in grade tables? V0 was never a ladder until some walls made it that way.

In reply to Offwidth:


Sure. But V0 = easy is a fait accompli indoors and that is a good thing because what climbing walls and their customers want is a simple scale where 0 means easy and 9 or 10 means impossible. Having an exact match to outdoor grades or the original meaning of V grades is far less important than having a simple and consistent system.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
Except V grades dont work that way and go further beyond 10 than Spinal Tap.

I really can't see what point you are trying to make anymore. You say V grades are used accurately in your experience then say V0 is easy (its not, VB is easyish and V0 on grade tables is around f4+ in Uk font grade terms and about 5a in UK tech terms). Any indoor wall sensibly using font grades has a full circuit below that level.

In reply to Offwidth:

I'm saying V grades indoors may not be the same as V grades outdoors but they work just fine anyway and to get back to the original issue indoor V4 or V3 is nothing like indoor V0.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
Thats you mis-interpretation but at least we agree now. My concern was always that in too many walls the easiest indoors problems in a circuit supposedly starting at 'V4' ( in your now acknowledged world of indoor V grade re-interpretation) are sometimes as easy as V0 (as the grade is properly defined outdoors), not uncommonly as easy as V1 (as properly defined) and usually as easy as V2 (as properly defined). Walls using font grades seem to have a smaller gap to UK standard font outdoor grades in the lower ranges.

This isn't some intellectual argument, there are highball VB/f3 problems in the YMC and Peak grit guides that could seriously hurt someone transitioning to the outdoors who think they are completly solid at V0.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
If only Alasdair Gray knew of UKC.... "Most quarrels come from conflicting ideas of a man's character but nobody fights over his phone number, and if we were content to describe each other numerically, giving height, weight, date of birth, size of family, home address and (most informative of all) annual income, we would see that below the jangling opinions was no disagreement on the main realities."

These are good points its bean a while since I have led trad often. That's the main motivating factor behind my training to get myself in a position where my fitness won't hold me back and I just have to get back used to leading. I.e. blanking out the fear ha!!