UKC

How much harder is it to climb when it's raining? Is it just a blanket case of 'don't do it', or does it depend on how wet the wall is and the kind of rock? Are there some footwear or other equipment choices that make climbing wet crags easier?

I'd be interested to hear what people think.

19G

In reply to 19G:

I like the rain so that helps, I also like to climb somewhere with shelter near by, (maybe a bridge) so I can hide under it if it rains to much.

On a more serious note rain = more chance of slipping

In reply to 19G:

You can't climb seriously when it's raining.

There are the odd crags that stay dry in the rain because they're very overhanging, but these are rare. In the Peak, there is a crag under a railway bridge which reportedly stays fairly dry. Some people climb very easy routes in the rain and claim that it's fun, but for me, that isn't really climbing, that's doing something inappropriate and unpleasant in the pissing rain.

Often, you get through a mild shower without the rock getting wet, but once the rock's wet, it cannot be climbed in any meaningful sense. Some north-facing mountain crags takes weeks or months to dry out, and can only be climbed in heatwave conditions - indeed, some of the best crags in the UK fall into this category.

In reply to 19G:

From a motivation perspective: much, much harder! It's just not a lot of fun in general, you get cold and wet then hot and sweaty then covered in midges then cold again... rubbish, the water runs down your sleeves pooling in the elbows until you reach up and it cascades down your back... much better to do something fun instead.

However, if you must, some rock types are basically unaffected by rain, clean, rough, rain lashed open faces with positive holds (Holyhead mountain for example) are not much harder in the rain. On the other hand a smeary route, especially one with any kind of lichen/algae on it (sheltered Slate springs to mind) can go from easy to impossible in the briefest of showers.

Some rock types (notably Sandstone) are significantly weakened when wet so best avoided for your and their protection.
jk

In reply to 19G:


Much harder, which is why all the best climbers are either from Scotland or the Lakes, where it rains most of the time, and if you didn't climb in the rain you'd never go outside.

In reply to 19G:


Certainly is for me. Rain makes it a lot more dangerous and a lot less enjoyable.

In reply to 19G:

Depends what you are climbing. Smearing with your feet and using smaller crimps and slopers you are technically closer to the limit of what is technically possible so water is a big problem.

If you are climbing in big boots it can make next to no difference since you'd be edging most of the time anyway and if you are capable of climbing it in big boots you can probably climb it in the wet.

If you want to have a good day out and battle against the elements then go climb in the rain - resort to a bit of french-free if need be. This is probably closer to the original "struggle against the elements, its a challenge" spirit of climbing than the more modern technical experience and has probably been replaced for those that want it with Scottish winter. If you can find it there is some great archive footage of climbers in the past climbing, in a style we would think of as rock climbing, in terrible snowy conditions on the cobbler. I guess having made the journey out of the big smoke there was nothing else to do but make the most of it!

I think what I am suggesting is that as a technical graded exercise: don't bother, the holds have been lubricated with water and you won't be able to use them . As a fun day out testing yourself against adversity it can be great fun... but there is a reason why most people don't climb in the rain. Go, try it and have fun finding out!

In reply to 19G:

Rain is ideal for low grade mountain routes in big boots. You can have a great time and find vdiff challenging again.

In reply to 19G:

It can be rewarding in a kind of 'type 2 fun' way though. lower the grade and pick something clean (or a gully for the perverted). I had a very memorable day on Main Wall in pissing rain - though it helped that the temperature was mild.

In reply to 19G:

"They'll all be doing them when the sun comes out."

Don Whillans

In reply to 19G:

Joe Brown climbed in all weathers, and on some pretty tough routes too. He'd just wear socks over his shoes and get on with it.

I used to climb in all weathers, but got tired of scaring myself to death on routes that should be easy. Eventually I figured I'd done enough of it to become a fair-weather climber without feeling too guilty about it.

In reply to Clinger:


I think to a large extent this is now regarded as an urban myth

In reply to 19G:

It does make it harder, but given the circumstances then that may be what your after. For me personally climbing in the rain makes me think a lot more about my feet placements, which can only be a good thing.

Would also depend on the type of climbing you're looking to do, if you're wanting to do some easy trad/multi pitch then if you're not bothered about getting wet then i'd say crack on. If you're wanting to push your sport climbing grade then perhaps I wouldn't bother (although funnily enough I redpointed my hardest sport route to date in the pissing rain, whilst the rock was soaking. Although this is probably more a testiment to my ability as a sport climber, rather than the conditions).

In reply to 19G:

The definitive answer is, it depends; on where you are, on you, on the temperature, on what you're wearing, on lots more things. I've climbed, amongst others, Milestone Direct in the rain and big boots carrying a rucksack and thought it perfectly reasonable; later the same day, we climbed Nea in rock boots without a rucksack and thought it a bit tough (mind you, it did get dark).

So two routes, two different experiences. It's up to you to have a go and see what you think. I strongly second the advice about giving sandstone a wide berth in the wet though; it won't do you, or the rock, any favours.

T.

In reply to Pedro50:


Maybe, but I'm pretty certain I read it in his autobiography. Unfortunately I've lent it out at the moment so can't check.

On a side note, it's an excellent read that I'd recommend to anyone.

In reply to 19G:

It's much harder, but there are times when it may become unavoidable eg on a multi pitch mountain route and the weather deteriorates. You have the option to ab off, but sometimes it's more convenient to carry on, particularly if you are near the top.

In reply to 19G:

What an extraordinary question. I can only assume you haven't climbed much in a wide range of conditions.

In reply to 19G:

I practised climbing in rain for a test.

stiff mountaineering boots work best.

Clean wet rock is much easier to climb than slightly lichenous. eg in the wet the more polished the route the better particularly in Wales. This may be different on skye or cairngorm granite.

occasional very unexpected falls happen particularly if it's cold enough for your fingers to lose feeling. A full rack is sensible place liberally.

Have fun it's better for than a sweaty climbing wall!

In reply to 19G:

Don't climb sandstone in the wet as it destroys it much faster. Otherwise it partly depends on the rock and partly how well you deal with discomfort

In reply to 19G:

As Jon Stewart said: 'You can't climb seriously when it's raining...'

As others have said, you can have great days out in the rain - but at much reduced standards and with far more care needed. Some lichen on the rock and suddenly it's a very different game indeed.

It's probably best if you don't, right now. It's only enjoyable in the perverse sort of way that running through thick mud is - so you won't be missing too much!

Enjoy your climbing.

Mick

In reply to alasdair19:


I thought this, but found the lack of even a wet smear made them worse than rock shoes, which are my first choice when I need to get up stuff in the wet. I tried grooved arete on Tryfan in the rain one year in B3's and couldn't make a smeary move, if I had stickies I would have made it up.

Some routes are wet anyway, like Clachaig Gully, other times it is better to do an easy route in the rain than go for a wet hillwalk. I did East Buttress on Beinn Eighe last year in the wet because we were there and it was raining. My Dickies insulated gloves are brilliant at getting grip on wet rock at the same time as keeping your hands warmer than without.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Gordon I agree with you You're not water soluble What happens if you're in the Alps, follow current trends and call for a helicopter ? Get out there in all weathers to fully appreciate and understand outdoor climbing
By the way I once used socks over my EB s on a sodden Rasp which was OK Chalk wasn't too good mind!

In reply to 19G:

I personally think that some experience of climbing in the rain can be useful, if only to prove how unpleasant it can be! But it can allow you to judge the amount of extra effort or adhesion you have in certain conditions, and this has helped me on long routes where I have been caught out by the weather. For example I had to finish the last two pitches of The Steeple on Shelterstone years ago in heavy rain. It seemed a better option than abbing off. I think that the experience of finishing routes in the rain over the years gave me the confidence to carry on, but I did lace both pitches!

In reply to 19G:


youtube.com/watch?v=qOQGk_5wYXA&

In reply to 19G:

One of my best ever climbing experiences was doing "climbers club ordinary" on the Dewerstone with the rain lashing off the back of the crag. The route stayed mainly dry, and we sat on the second belay for an age watching the rain pour into the Dewerstone valley.

In reply to rocksol:


I can't imagine the Rasp ever being 'OK'

In reply to 19G:


I don't climb in the rain. I go to the pub or Pete's Eats or someone's flat and get bored.

In reply to 19G:

On limestone it's almost impossible as it's so slippy!

In reply to 19G:

As long as the wind is blowing in the right direction then head to Raven Tor, the rain makes no difference

In reply to 19G:

I once started up idwal slabs in completely dry conditions hoping to solo it in trainers with my friend, started raining and we tied on. By the time we reached the last pitch there was an actual waterfall we had to climb through. The experience was exhilarating, but very different to what I'd normally enjoy about climbing.

Anecdotally I have found that approach shoes with grippy rubber help when walking over rocky, wet ground. I think that the modern rubber compounds are so grippy they will pick up all sorts of dust and dirt, so a bit of wet grass actually cleans them up and brings back the sort of "magnet to the ground" feeling. Not that I'd recommend doing it on purpose...

In reply to 19G:

Some climbs on some rock types are okay. The Black Streak on Diabaig for example (Gneiss) is only a grade harder. But you do get wet.

In reply to 19G:

There are some routes that should only be done in the rain, it all adds to the fun.
Its what also got me into Caving!!

In reply to 19G:




It can certainly be more exciting. Depends on quite alot of factors. No one makes rock shoes designed to cope with rain.
Try it and see what you think.

In reply to dr_botnik:

Idwal Slabs in the rain is surprisingly OK because all the lichen has been worn off by millions of feet. The intrinsic friction is surprisingly good, plus it dries out fantastically fast once the rain's stopped.

In reply to Clinger:

>Maybe, but I'm pretty certain I read it in his autobiography.

You've certainly read it in some of Dennis Gray's autobiographies.

Also excellent reads which I'd recommend to anyone.

jcm

In reply to 19G:

Unless it's already been mentioned, New Mills Tor has a buttress which apparently stays dry in monsoon conditions as it is under the bridge; id therefore say that is your best bet if the weather looks pretty grim but u still wish to climb.

But yeah wet rock can sometimes make a straightforward HS feel more like HVS. This certainly happened to me at the back end of last year on Manchester Buttress at Stanage Pop. Obviously hadn't dried out as quickly as I had hoped.

In reply to Rocknast:
Climbing offers so many different experiences. Carry loads of gear, wrap up warm and leave your chalk bag at home. Choose something like a quarried gritstone crackline that you've done before and give it go. Go a step further and try it in the dark too and your midweek outings after work can continue throughout the year. The visit to the pub afterwards will be well earned AND you'll probably get home earlier than if you spend (it's free too ) the evening at a climbing wall. Rock Gymnast might turn into Rock Climber.

In reply to 19G:
It depends partly on the type of rock. Gritstone and Welsh mountain rock are perfectly climbable when wet if you lower your grades appropriately and avoid friction routes(!). Slate and limestone become so slippery they become virtually unclimbable.

In reply to 19G:

It can seem like a good idea if you're young/keen/bored but rapidly loses its appeal...after about 5 minutes

In reply to Stairclimber:
why on earth would rock gymnast leave her chalk bag at home? This is beginning to sound not so much Old Skool as Historical Climbing Re-enactment Society!

In reply to Postmanpat:
and some rock (such as north York moors sandstones) becomes weak and friable when damp, and should not be climbed in the rain, to protect the crag.

In reply to pebbles:


It's raining why on earth would you need to carry chalk?

In reply to Stairclimber:


I notice that you suggest keeping an open mind about what a climbing trip entails, being open to various less-than-usual practices, like climbing in the dark, leaving your chalk at home .... but take it as a given that the pub will always feature.

In reply to Stairclimber:

.....and then on to becoming a stair climber myself! Naturally

In reply to 19G:

Rain is God's way of telling you its time for a fryup/tea and cake/beer depending on location.

In reply to marsbar:


If that were the case, why didn't She put a decent cafe and pub in Aviemore ?

In reply to Clinger:

Johnny Dawes interviews Joe Brown on his "best forgotten art" film and in that interview Joe Brown does state that he used to climb "whatever the weather", so it is no urban myth.

In reply to Neil Henson:

Ditto Arthur Birtwistle. He simply put thick socks over his plimsolls. That's how he made first ascent of Drainpipe Crack (E1 5a - the first pitch of Vember) in 1938. On sight. No gear. Second couldn't follow. Climbed 25 feet up next pitch (what is now 2nd pitch of Vember) until rope ran out. Reversed it, and then soloed back down first pitch of Curving Crack.

Find the biggest meanest looking chimney you can and jump in that. Don't wear your expensive waterproofs.