UKC

When I started as a Scout Leader at 19, I found it annoying that old people would have quite entrenched views on certain things.

So I wondered if its me being old, or a general point of view?

Is it really a good idea to have a chief Scout who likes shoving water up celebrities bums in the pretence of survival training? Is it undignified for the chief Scout to get him bum out on TV or is this normal behaviour?

I don't consider myself a prude, and as a kayaker I've seen plenty of men's bums (The A6 at Matlock Bath is a good location for those who appreciate such displays )

In reply to marsbar:

I'm 30, so maybe a bit old for your study group... but it's the "gutter TV" as far as I'm concerned.

I know that the BBC used to be desperate for under 30s to love BBC 3 as "their" channel, but I've never known anyone to think it's anything other than a pile of ****. Same sort of thing.

In reply to marsbar:

I think the general consensus from all climbers - not just under thirties - is that he is a pillock.

youtube.com/watch?v=5t0mJ63Y8WM&

In response to your other questions -
I think having ridiculous entrenched views is more dependent on the person than age.
Having a chief scout who is a pillock is a bad idea.

In reply to marsbar:
I'm over 30 but think that BG has done great things for the Scout movement - and people can (and do) realise that a lot of his TV stuff is just for TV, no resemblance of real life

What would you prefer as a Chief Scout - an old guy droning on how young folk should be acting? Or a guy out there, having fun, making it look exciting?

In reply to Pids:

Sticking tubes up his a*se? Strange idea of fun.

In reply to Pids:

Like I said it could be my age, but I'd prefer someone having clean fun without sticking stuff up bums or being part of celebrity culture. I'd also like to see someone who follows the rules we ask the Scouts to follow (eg bouyancy aid when on the water) and who doesn't use the Scouts to sell his products.

I love him. Shows are amazing!
I am 32 now, but I watched it from maybe 25. It's really exiting and well filmed. Inspired me to go and see places episodes were produced. But I generally love adventure novels, so it probably was easy to sell to me.

P.S.: Every time he was 'drinking' piss I was just rolling under the table
P.S.S.: I have no idea that Scouts are (suppose something like soviet pioneers), so can't say if he's a good chief.

In reply to Pids:
Does he make it exciting or does he promote a load of tired old clich£s and myths about "extreme" activities that bare no reality to the very real adventures most of us know and love?
I don't actually know as I can't watch his programmes as I think he's such a mega pillock - the whole Everest and sas bullsh*t was enough for me.
Ps I'm 33 so don't count for the purposes of this thread.

In reply to marsbar:

To be honest, I find him absolutely cringeworthy. (I'm 29, keen on the outdoors since childhood, and still involved in Scouting.)

In reply to Only a hill:

What do the scouts think of him?

In reply to marsbar:

I'm 45, but I don't care, he riles me so much I want to have my say anyway. He's a phoney, opportunist, self-promoting bellend who at some point will almost certainly be responsible for someone's death when they attempt to recreate the shite he appears to be doing (abseiling off a sprig of heather springs to mind.).

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

I'm getting on for double the age limit but as an ex-scout I think it is a very bad idea to have someone who is so consistently fake and dishonest as a Scouting role model.

Anyhow, to cheer up other oldies like me:

youtube.com/watch?v=CZiLwyPl5yw&

In reply to marsbar:

Great youtube video, lots of close ups but any shots of BG were no more than 5 foot off the ground. What were the runners for if he did solo the route? Complete set up.

I am a scout leader and have been unfortunate enough to meet BG. He descended by helicopter, had his make-up done before anyone was allowed to take pictures, then pissed off again. The kids loved him but the adults thought him a complete tosser.

He claims that his sister gave him his nickname has always struck me as curious. I always wondered if he knew about that being Geoff Yeadons nickname from Martyn Farr's excellent book about cave diving "The darkness beckons" and just nicked it.

In reply to ebdon:

They think he's fantastic, but they also think every word he says is the literal truth. We have to stop them drinking out of puddles and eating roadkill when we go on hikes – and I'm only half joking.

In reply to Only a hill:

Perhaps let them drink from some puddles, explain why some are ok and some not ok to drink from - a little tummy bug will help them understand things
As for roadkill depends what it is - road kill pheasant is perfectly acceptable

Try not sanitise scouting / kids, let them explore and find things out for themselves

In reply to Pids:


Yep, agreed. We've been through water purification, how to source drinkable water outside, etc.


I'm talking about rats. Raw.


Agreed 100%. You're preaching to the converted

In reply to marsbar:
I'm a bit older than your requirements, so perhaps my views are skewed. I've just never understood his fascination with urine drinking. He's also a monstrous ass.

youtube.com/watch?v=kTlsqZ214Mw&

In reply to Yanis Nayu:


I'm 52 and BG is a prick.

In reply to Only a hill:

We are talking about Baden Powell, right?

In reply to marsbar:

30yr old Scout leader and I think he's an absolute bell-end. All show, no real-life practical skills.

In reply to marsbar:

I'm 28 and a half and I like the overall message of getting outside and having fun but I dislike the misrepresentation and pointlessness of most of the stunts he does. I wouldn't comment on him as a person as I have never met him

In reply to Only a hill:


Surely you should let them go ahead and then they will learn why he isnt fantastic.


yes there is a good reason why I shouldnt be trusted to supervise children.

In reply to marsbar:

Jealousy is a terrible thing. Not aimed at you in particular, at pretty much every Bear envier, I mean hater

In reply to tspoon1981:



I'm really miserable, and that made me nearly cry with laughter. Cheers!

In reply to marsbar:

His main problem (insuperable as far as I'm concerned) is that he's dishonest – and his ego is clearly such that it doesn't bother him.

In reply to marsbar:
(I should add that I'm 36 years too old to reply to your question)

In reply to marsbar:

To save this effort from deletion on another thread in the pub,

This is the adventurer crossing all borders
He takes cash, cards, cheques and postal orders
Baring his buttocks they're right up against us
Armchair explorers vicariously share his adventures,

Adventures in rivers, Adventures on ice,
Adventures on cliffs, never looks twice,
Adventures in deserts, Adventures in snow,
Adventures high, Adventures low
Eating insects or jumping from choppers
Testing to destruction his endorsed crag hoppers
Crossing a canyon with only a vine
Can't see the safety rope, that camera angle's fine
And as the sun sets, dung has been eaten, fire embers glow,
It's off to Hilton the whole crew will go.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


That's the nub of it. I could forgive well-nigh everything else. But the chronic dishonesty, the lack of any sense of caring... it's a kind of contempt of everybody's struggle with wilderness (and themselves).

That he's Chief Scout horrifies me. It's like a Child of Thatcher's rebranding of the Scout movement. Baden-Powell would be spinning in his grave.

Mick (a mere 33 years over the age limit but what does the OP expect from a forum crammed with 'the awkward brigade'?)

In reply to ebdon:


My scouts will occasionally and regularly ask me about him 'Did you see BG last night?', and about 10% have some sort of BG branded stuff. The ones that talk to me about him think he's cool.
A significant percentage of my female associates fancy him, and were jealous that I got to shake his hand when I sent him down an aerial runway.
The scout leaders I know aren't enamoured with him at all. Yes, he probably has encouraged young people to join scouts or be more adventurous, but that enthusiasm could have been generated by other more genuine people.
I'm too old for your survey, but I think he's a cock, and have only seen a short part of one of his programmes where he abseiled down a waterfall instead of doing the sensible thing and walking down alongside it. He is to Survival what Top Gear is to motoring.

In reply to bleddynmawr:

BG was due to come to a county camp in Cambs a couple of yesrs ago. The demands put upon us local leaders became ever more unrealistic, particularly all scouts up, washed, fed and into adventurous activities by 8am (for the glorious helicopter arrival). When it became apparent that he'd only be there for 20 minutes we pulled the plug on the whole thing.
Toss pot.

In reply to MaxJEF:


Does he boost the kids engagement in the outdoors though? Whilst I would prefer to see a male platypus in mating season inserted where the sun dont shine as opposed to his preferred platpus if he encourages outdoor activities I think he should be applauded.
I would prefer Ray Mears or similar to be the role model but needs must and if his crap can be diluted.....

In reply to marsbar:

Can someone set me straight? I know what a platypus is, I know what an enema is and I know who Bear Grylls is. However, I'm struggling to combine the three elements in any meaningful way - it sounds every shade of wrong, what the hell has he been up to?!

In reply to broken spectre:

Like a camelbak. If that doesnt help

http://www.cascadedesigns.com/Platypus

In reply to KevinD:

Ah, less depraved than I initially feared!

In reply to broken spectre:


Yup. Scouts havent yet been reduced to watching bestiality. Although admittedly I would cough up cash if Grylls stuck a male platypus in mating season up his arse although wouldnt watch (look up platypus venom if curious why),

Note to tabloid journalists: this is a pisstake. f*ck off and find some poor lass apologising for bad decisions to make a story out off.

In reply to bleddynmawr:
It was actually oliver "bear" statham. He did a lot of dives with geoff yeadon in keld head but sadly took his own life ironically using the same breathing apparatus that had previously kept him alive.

Real adventurers.

In reply to marsbar:

I have held various Scout leader warrants over the years and I would not shake BG's hand.

I was horrified when he was named Chief Scout.

In reply to marsbar:

I'm 26 and I think he's a knob. He wouldn't bother me so much if he wasn't so relentlessly fake, wasn't chief scout and his message was about enjoying and understanding nature and wilderness, not about being locked in some constant life or death struggle with it.

In reply to marsbar:

When I was 29 I thought him a bellend. I'm 34 now and think him a chuffing bellend. For context, all my other views are becoming *less* entrenched as I get older, but I appear to be making an exception for 'Bear'.

In reply to marsbar:

Really useful. I must remember to take an enema kit and plenty of water in case I get stuck in a whiteout on the Ben.?....?..?£&@;/:,?

In reply to marsbar:

Im too old for your survey, but yes he is a utter cock. I'm a Scout Leader and I and every other Scout Leader I know, find him an embarrassment to the organisation.

The Scouts actually never mention him. My 14 year old step-daughter, who is an Explorer / Young Leader, used to like him, but as she has got older, has realised that he is a fraud. She is still a big fan of Steve Backshall and I have no problem with that.

In reply to marsbar:

I'm 49 and to old for this question.

My 10 year old daughter thinks BG is an irritating drama queen.

FWIW I think she's quite right

In reply to marsbar:

I enjoyed a lot of the earlier stuff he did and some of his books but in the last few years he seems to have just gone mental.

In reply to marsbar:

I'm 26.

BG is an A1 bellend - but he's encouraging kids to get outdoors so I'm not that upset about his existence.

In reply to marsbar:

I'm 20 and a scout leader, I think he's a bit of a knob and most of his TV is rubbish, but most folk I know who don't climb seem to love him. And I suppose he's doing a good job of raising the profile of scouting and getting people interested in going outdoors.

In reply to marsbar:

Thanks for all the replies.

In reply to KevinD:

Wrong Platypus !

In reply to marsbar:

Well you wanted replies from under 30's and it seems you got a lot of replies from over30's so I've asked my Son, who's 11, a fairly good climber himself and used to be in the Scouts until his much admired Scout leaders said they were leaving (how could you K&J!) so he left too, but anyway: this is his response to your question:

"Ummmm (a long pause for thought), I don't really care about his bum, we've all got one, but he's ok, he's funny to watch and doesn't climb very well but sometimes he does some cool things on tele, but ..... (another long pause) .... I like Steve Backshall much better and his Deadly 60 games are awesome."

Hope that helps. Please note I've kept my thoughts on Bear to myself as you didn't ask for them; I'm 47.

In reply to BnB:
What is it you think The Born Survivor enviers are envious of ?

In reply to lummox:

Just have a read of the posts leading up to mine. Feel the tone. The level of anger engendered by BG's success is out of all proportion to his "crime", which is to treat the outdoors as an entertainment rather than the ethical and nerdy pursuit we all adore. We've mostly reached our level of (in)competence by following safety guidelines and ethics. BG comes along and pisses over all of that while proving that a talent for self publicity is far more remunerative than leading E2. On a forum where a high proportion of posts focus on the difficulty of making a career in rock climbing, surely you're asking the wrong question? Why wouldn't people be envious?

I like BG because he brings the outdoors to those who might otherwise never taste its wonders. And he makes it fun. This is how lives can be changed and people inspired. In that sense he is worth ten Ondras, Sharmas or Honnolds, with their remote and incomprendable attainments.

In reply to BnB:

It's funny- I don't interpret the responses as anger. More, exasperation that a complete fake and utter fanny has this level of publicity.

I find it telling that Ray Mears and Steve Backshall, who both make their living out of promoting outdoor pursuits and encouraging kids and adults to appreciate the great outdoors don't seem to get even a fraction of the negative feedback Grylls does.

I wonder why that might be ?

In reply to marsbar:

John Arran for chief scout!

In reply to lummox:


Is a sense of irony a weakness of yours?

I can't stand Mears as it happens, but that's only because he advocated Lord of the Rings as the best book ever written in a BBC populist arts show. And that simplistic tripe actually won the vote. But that is what you get when you invite the uneducated and ill-informed to partake in high art.

See, I'm as guilty as the rest

In reply to BnB:


Not ordinarily..


I'm fairly sure that there are a lot of highly educated types who think far too much of LOTR. Think most of the scientific community for a start ; ). I think it's simplistic tripe but would really quite like a pint or two with Mears.

I'd rather not be in the same room as the Born Sh*t Eater though..

In reply to BnB:

Picking up on your deleted message, does the deletion suggest that judging Grylls on safety, authenticity (I'll add honesty) is perfectly legitimate.

In reply to marsbar:

The 18ish year old students seem to think Bear Grylls is good entertainment/ bit of a laugh, but a lot of them aren't that bothered about being outside . The younger kids I know all want to be Steve Backshall. I think that is the difference. BG doesn't really inspire, but he's a daft hour of telly, SB inspires- He looks like he's doing all the cool things they want to do and having a great time.

In reply to The New NickB:

Absolutely it is. I just dont think that's the only motivation here.

The deletion by the way was to allow me to quote the previous post which I had omitted to do first time round.

In reply to BnB:


Ooooo, that's too high brow for me, but I was enjoying it until it went over my head!

In reply to toad:


Never mind the younger kidz, I WANT TO BE LIKE SB!

In reply to Valaisan:

LOL ! Is BnB UKC's very own Brian Sewell ?

In reply to lummox:

You'll have to read the rest of this comment in Sewell's langorous tones:

I was drawing an amusing parallel between your ills towards Grylls and my smears against Mears. Both dabble in areas where they demonstrate little expertise, only the golden ticket of celebrity, and in so doing, they upset the purists.

But (and here I'm channelling pure Sewell), t'was to cast pearls amongst swine

In reply to BnB:

Of course Sewell would have known that the Biblical quote is pearls before swine

In reply to lummox:

My Sewell likes to get stuck in

In reply to BnB:


Really? I can't remember many posts of that nature. Some, hoping to be outdoor instructors, but really not many complaining about how difficult it is. I'm sure the vast majority here are happy to see climbing as a leisure activity.

And you'd hope that those hoping to make a career out of it would be way above average ability (to earn a living as a sponsored climber), or competent at genuine instruction. I'm not sure many would want to emulate the dishonesty that BG employs; I would certainly be ashamed of myself.

In reply to captain paranoia:
Sorry I should have worded that as "a good number of posts highlight in various ways how difficult it is to make serious money in the outdoor industry." Is that better?

But it doesn't change the fact that, apart from the owners of North Face, Patagonia et al, he's pretty much the only soul making millions from outdoor pursuits. Why wouldn't some be envious? All the more so if he's indulging in sleight of hand.

I've re-read the posts on this thread just to check I wasn't, in my mind's eye, over-estimating the hatred for BG. But the level of bile is truly oustanding. He's certainly made an impact on a lot of you.

Edit grammar

In reply to BnB:


I'm sure some are envious. Just as some would like to make a living out of climbing, but can't. There are millions of people earning vastly more than I do, doing things they like to do. They don't bother me. So why should BG be a special case for jealousy?

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of complaints are summarised by Trevers' response above.

There certainly is a lot of bile directed at him, but, again, I don't think it's jealousy. If I had that much bile directed at me, I'd be asking myself what I was doing to attract it. Given the fairly well-argued cases most of his detractors put forward, it wouldn't be that hard. I'm sure he's aware of the criticism he attracts.

In reply to captain paranoia:

Exactly. I'm a tad envious of several telly personalities, you won't catch me having a pop at them on here though because by and large I think they're ace, or I wouldn't envy them.

Guy Martin, for example: I envy his toys, his talent, the things he gets to do and the skills he has to do them. Things he gets to do on the telly presented purely as entertainment mind you, but real skills nonetheless. You wont catch him refusing to wear a helmet or a buoyancy aid to try to look more hardcore, and you don't see folks on internet forums slagging him off because he's flippin awesome.

I loathe Bear Grylls, and most certainly do not envy the fud. My own little adventures are very tame compared to what he pretends to do on telly, but they don't involve bullshitting furiously while trying to hide a top rope.

I used to regard his antics as being faintly ridiculous and a bit naff, but basically harmless - my attitude towards him used to be more "meh" than anything involving yer actual bile. The tipping point for me was the "bat tennis" thing. Properly loathesome behaviour, since when I find myself finding the man himself pretty loathesome. Odious prick. Charlatan. Hypocritical bullshit artist. What's to envy?

In reply to marsbar:

I'm 53 and I think he's a cnut

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I'm 56 and think he's infinitely less obnoxious than Jeremy Clarkson or Simon Cowell or any number of TVs celebs

In reply to GrahamD:

I think they're cnuts too

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


... or his bank balance, at least.

In reply to BarrySW19:

As you say, 'at least'.

In reply to GrahamD:


I'm 52 and think he's infinitely worse than either of them. I like Clarkson with some qualifications and loathe everything Cowell stands for, but at least it's transparent.

In reply to marsbar:

I'm baffled that so many of you people lead lives where you have the opportunity to form views on Mr Grylls. Don't your televisions have 'off' buttons?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Yes, but you can't close your eyes driving past BG on a billboard.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I don't watch him on TV. However I spent many years as a Scout Leader and it pains me that they have sunk so low. Scouts is something that in my opinion doesn't need fakery. The very basis of Scouting is honestly. However I am aware that there are other views and I started this thread to try to understand them.

In reply to BnB:


That's not the reason he's disliked. It's his dishonesty that gets most peoples' goat, IMO. Not the "staying in a hotel while filming" sort of dishonesty, but the making of questionable (at best) claims and the "massaging" of his exploits to the point where they're close to outright lies.

Couple that with the downright dangerous "survival" advice he gives, and the arrogance/ sense of entitlement he exudes with his helicopter "drop ins" to various scout functions, and I think you should be able to see that it's not jealousy at his "success" that pisses people off.

In reply to Rob Naylor:


To play devil's advocate - the good thing about his survival advice is that it shows that sometimes (but usually not) you do need to be creative to get yourself sorted. That is absolutely the only kind thing I can say about his advice, though.

I'll never forget the moment I first realized that he wasn't a survival genius (but might be a comical genius instead):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b9yNLBvQeM&t=1017

In reply to Robert Durran:

I like Clarkson with some qualifications and loathe everything Cowell stands for, but at least it's transparent.

So you are happy with people who constantly slag off whole groups of people in the name of entertainment but dislike a bit of play acting from someone who doesn't ?

In reply to GrahamD:


The difference is that Clarkson is clearly entertaining us with a comic persona (as I said, I do have some reservations; he sometimes goes too far), whereas Grylls is basically a common liar barefacedly conning his mass audience.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:


You can stop and chuck stuff at it though, so not all bad!

i think the nail has been hit on the head there.

Hated and popular for just the same reasons as TG

In reply to Phil Lyon:


I completely disagree; almost everyone who knows anything about the stuff Grylls pretends to do thinks he's a complete tit, whereas lots of people who know about cars like Top Gear because it doesn't pretend to be a serious car programme.

In reply to Phil Lyon:

I think for this analogy to really work Clarkson needs to make some bullsh*t up about being a champion racing driver.

In reply to Rob Naylor:

Of the total of about 10 mins I've ever watched, I saw him advising us to jump into a glacial lake 'to warm up'???!!! And omitting to mention that even if that were true, which of course it isn't, they are bl**dy hard things to escape from unless your camera crew just happen to have dug neat handholds just where you need them - otherwise you would drown.

Of course, the episode of him 'soloing an extreme' when he was patently top roping a severe was simply a lie. Don't fancy his chances with St Peter with that in his closet.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Do you think any of the BG programmes are serious travelogues ? really ?

In reply to GrahamD:


Obviously not; presumably Grylls himself knows they're a load of shite.
But that's not the point. Why do you think most people who know anything about the outdoors thinks that Grylls is a joke, whereas lots of people very knowledgable about cars like Clarkson and find him entertaining?