UKC

Am I being an old fart, or do others agree with me that the sale of ornate 'zombie' machete knives should be banned?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35943144

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Would being tw*tted with a non ornate non zombie machete hurt any less?
I cant really see the point in banning them although admittedly cant see much of a point to them. I suspect in most cases just brought because easier to spot which can have legitimate uses.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Manslaughter?

How the hell was that not murder?

In reply to KevinD:


Of course not. Ditto re. kitchen knives etc. But these weapons are delberately designed to terrify, and appeal to certain type of person that wants to appear macho, threatening, or worse by carrying them around in the streets with them. I.e. they're the next best thing to having a firearm.

I don't think you've got my point. Can you suggest one single type of normal person who would buy these extraordinary weapons, and why?


The point is to own a very scary, threatening weapon. I.e. you could just walk into any corner shop with one of those and demand that the owner hands over all the money in the till. Just like a gun. Much worse than an ordinary small knife.

I don't follow your last sentence at all. I have no idea what a 'legitimate use' would be.

In reply to captain paranoia:



Because the convicted is a nutcase/mentally deranged/subnormal, I guess.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


A quick google shows they vary from some very walter mitty ninja commando machetes to being the same as a standard machete but with a luminous green handle.
Former case you could ban them but then are you going to ban any live swords? I would be a tad more concerned about someone with a decent sabre than a zombie machete. Likewise someone coming at with me with a quality looking kitchen knife. Aside from anything else it would show they have some competence in choosing weapons and hence possibly competence in a fight with accompanying fitness to be able to catch me up when i run.
How far will you go in banning potential weapons. I am actually tempted by an offer of doing a sword forging course since it would be an interesting challenge and I have a background in various sword arts. Would you want to ban me from making that potential weapon?

For legitimate use. If you are doing woodcraft then a long blade can come in useful. I can see why an easy to spot handle would be useful if you are using it as a tool eg potentially leaving it around.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I'm in two minds, I work in kitchens so have a reasonably large selection of knives, some of which would look scary to some folks if threatened with them. But they do serve a purpose. My brother collects ornate looking Klingon weaponry, because he's autistic and a massive geek. They have no functional purpose, they're purely for aesthetics. The idea of ornate looking machetes or geeky looking weaponry being banned doesn't bother me overly, I just wouldn't wish my brother and his geeky aspie friends to be denied the reasonably harmless fun of owning odd looking knives because some people are arse holes.

In reply to captain paranoia:



But more detail here :
http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/crime-court/stefan_appleton_pair_cle...

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I was under the impression that these have been illegal to carry for decades. Surely nothing longer than a 2 inch blade without good reason can lead to a custodial sentence, certainly if a gang member.

D

In reply to Dauphin:


Over three inch non locking folding knife without a good reason is what leads to an unpleasant conversation with the cops.

In reply to KevinD:

I repeat, these weapons are designed to appeal to a certain type of person. Ornate swords would be far less interesting to them (and they're a lot more difficult to hide/carry around.) These 'zombie' things have a new look aimed at a gaining a cult following. The worry the police have is that they are commercially successful for that reason.

In reply to Dauphin:


That's interesting. So the police have the necessary powers at that stage. My concern is why these things are being sold in the first place. Why?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


http://www.zombietools.net/about/

They are more or less designed as a fun object that appeals to the SiFi/ Fantasy world, not the chav-gang-type you appear to be suggesting.

They are designed to appeal to knife collectors, made by knife designers who want to make something a little wacky. Contrary to popular belief you are not a psycho if you enjoy ornate intricacies in hand-crafted objects... just a little weird.

Not going to lie to lie though, the 'head splitter' is a little too much.

Actual use of these tools/knives/weapons however on a human is absolutely terrifying.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


You repeat it but you havent provided evidence. Aside from people who do find bright green handy (for practical purposes) the same people buy these as would have brought star trek commando weapons last year.
The current trend is odd but then again so were many of the previous ones. Which leads to the question about what criteria you are going to use to ban them?
Some people will always buy blades to try and look hard and will get whichever is currently trendy.
Some will carry because they feel threatened. Again they might choose a trendy knife or they might choose whatever is handy.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


They're really not. They're just ornate essentially, whether you find the look appealing or not. In my teens I was into martial arts, anime, sci-fi/fantasy, and really wanted some Japanese swords and at times butterfly knives and others. I never had the money and didn't get them but mates did and they were just cool ornaments.

I fortunnatley some people are f*cked up, but they'll always have something...unless you want to ban ice aces for example?

--

Separate note, didn't the sale of ornate swords get banned or at least licensed or something about ten years ago during some other media hype? Mostly to do with Japanese replicas t the time?

In reply to Scarab9:

Yes, I think so.

In reply to Scarab9:

There are some restrictions on swords. I think it is a certain degree of curve/length of the blade and you need a good(ish) reason (eg membership of a martial arts club).
Its the normal bollocks. You can buy a side sword or a bastard which can really upset someones day but a "Katana" ohhhh no ban it.

The most amusing example of this is in the US. Where in certain states bowie, flicknives and bowies are restricted but you can carry a gun cos its your right.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Just as an aside, I'm currently trying to buy a machete/billhook for the legitimate purpose of attacking a bloody vicious enemy - namely the bramble bushes at the back of my garden. I could walk into OBI (Germany's version of B&Q) and pick one up off the rack, but can I buggery find one in the shops near me. As I've tried to source one on the internet, I'm expecting a visit from the powers that be any time.

JW

In reply to John Ww:

Are the bramble bushes undead?

In reply to john arran:

Not yet - but when I finally get my hands on my weapon of mass destruction, either they or I will be! Don't suppose you brought one back from Venezuela by any chance? That Ariege scrub can be vicious

JW

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Two issues are being discussed in this thread:

One is whether one is allowed to carry these things in public. The answer in law is no, unless one has good reason or lawful authority ('I think it looks nice' would not cut it).

They are not offensive weapons per se, i.e. by their very nature (although I could well see a Court determining that they are) but even obviously offensive weapons such as butterfly knives, knuckledusters or swords are only unlawful to carry in a public place, not simply to possess.

The second issue is whether anybody should be allowed to possess these things at all, even in the comfort of their own home. Should they be prohibited in the same way that firearms/guns are? I thik the current law probaly has it about right- am I not allowed to have my three ikea samurai swords in ascending size order hanging above my fireplace?

In reply to John Ww:


Surely you can buy those giant secateurs/pruning tools/loppers still at any gardening centre. You know, the ones with the giant handles, that you can cut through branches at least an inch thick with no problem?

In reply to Siward:

Yes, the current law probably has it nearly right. My concern is why these new zombie things are being sold. I can't see that they have any interest as 'collectors' items'.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


You done any volunteer work with BTCV/whatever they are called now,any similar organisation?
When you need to chop through some vegetation which has been ignored for a few years to clear a path nothing matches a machete or bill. Chop through foliage or branches as needed.
It is a specialist need, sadly, nowadays but still exists.

In reply to KevinD:

Sure, I've done loads of that kind of clearing of vegetation. You need about five things, basically. A small hand scythe/machete, a large scythe, large secateurs, a big lopper/pruner (as mentioned above) and a small handsaw.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


I would tend to reduce it to a machete/scythe, bill hook and handsaw but I am struggling to see why you questioning John W on their tool choice?

If I needed to sort out some brambles first off of all I would go and see my dad and nick his billhook and scythe but if that failed I would order a machete. Again from a quick google would probably end up with a zombie killer since the prices are best for those.
I could use loppers but a)it would take more effort and b) be less fun.

In reply to KevinD:
I wasn't questioning his tool choice at all. Just amplifying it, and adding a couple of other things I find useful. First on my list was the machete. He asked a question about the lack of availability of such tools at gardening centres. I expressed surprise.

Oh, I give up ... Back to work.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


They do tend to be quite rare nowadays. Outside of online or casual thievery from my family I think getting my hands on a machete or billhook would take some effort.
Possibly because people have suggested banning them and shops have concluded it isnt worth the effort.

In reply to KevinD:

Or a slate knife, I got one from my grandfather that is amazing for gardening and cutting kindling. The weight behind it really helps.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

No, I don't see a ban on the word "zombie" being the answer. Remove that word and it's simply a knife or machete.

I have a bog standard catapult designed by Bavarian Joerg Sprave, he's also into Zombies ( I don't get it either, but each to their own). Here's one of his weapons against zombies, a bog brush firing revolver catapult.

Danger, danger......let's ban bog brushes.
https://cmdrysdale.wordpress.com

In reply to off-duty:

Thanks. Some conflicting claims "stabbed repeatedly" vs "lashed out once". I'm sure the physical evidence shows the number of wounds, and the likely weapon.

I wasn't in court, though, so I haven't got the whole picture.

In reply to Mr Trebus:

I had never heard of those before. I think I would prefer a billhook cos I am traditional to the area (plus the closest I get to a trade is my dad being a spark) I am from but does reinforce the point about what to ban. I think one of them could really upset your day probably more than some mitty zombie killer.

In reply to John Ww:


I bought a Spear & Jackson Stafford Billhook at Christmas from my local garden centre, just over twenty quid and a decent bit of kit. Not as good as the one my dad uses but that was made by a proper blacksmith in the forties.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

As long as the sale os these isn't banned

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat%27leth#/media/File:Bat%27leths.jpg

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


How do you define a 'zombie' machete knife? Is it by colour, blade length, blade shape, slots in the blade, number of spikey bits?

You'll end up with some ridiculous legal definition that will outlaw garden tools but allow the purchase of something far more lethal.

There's already a raft of legislation preventing the carrying of weapons in public without complicating things further.

In reply to Ridge:

As I said, way back in the thread, I think the current legislation may be just about adequate. I was simply interested what other people thought about it, having stated my position of unease.

In reply to KevinD:

I got a brand new bill hook, I can't remember the brand but it's a decent one from my local auto jumble for £15 the same one is available in my local garden center for £25.
i use it for Bush clearing on site, a lot of the sites I visit to service the machines only get visited once a year so the brambles try take over and often I have to hack them back from the cabinet that I need to access.
Great tool, far better than the machete that I replaced it with.

In reply to John Ww:


Didn't bring any back from Venezuela - they're far too much in demand by the local Indians to consider depriving them - but I did get one recently from Andorra, where they have a very fine selection. Useful for clearing paths to the crags I've been developing in Ariège. It probably helps being within an hour's drive and not needing to get on a plane back to the UK with it

In reply to Dax H:


Cant remember seeing any at the local garden center but then due to my current needs mostly just get pots and seeds. They are great for clearing crap out although I guess for a full days clearing would probably lose out to a machete.

Their big brother the brown/black/forest bills were a rather nasty weapon. One English warcry was "bill and bow" for the favoured weapons.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Yep, got a pair of giant loppers, but it would take forever. Also got a sickle, but the brambles just laughed at it

JW

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

There has been a sub-culture of survivalist/SHTF/Preppers for a long time and with the increase in popularity of zombie-related TV (the Walking Dead as a prime example) knife makers are jumping on the band wagon and producing big scary knives for collectors to behead, albeit fictitious, zombies. Gerber or cold steel (I can't remember which) even went as far as sponsoring season two of the Walking Dead so all the characters found a huge stash of big knives and wreaked havoc on the local undead population.
Gerber even produce Bear Grylls branded knives and machetes (something else we aren't target market for)
They are just grown up toys that sadly in the wrong hands could be deadly. I don't think they are designed to terrify or to be an effective weapon, but for geeks to add to the collection.