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Me and the missus are off to Pembroke this weekend for the first time. Never sea cliff climbed before! Got the guide and was thinking Mother Carey area. I'm also thinking this will be busy if the weather's ok. Would appreciate any suggestions for a steady introduction anything up to around 5b.
Thanks
Thanks
In reply to gazfellows:
You cant really go far wrong in Pembrokeshire, its all great. The Bank Holiday effect though can be massive, I lived down there for a while and once counted over 40 climbers at Craig Caerfai on one sunny Saturday, the following weekend we had it to ourselthes, have a good time
You cant really go far wrong in Pembrokeshire, its all great. The Bank Holiday effect though can be massive, I lived down there for a while and once counted over 40 climbers at Craig Caerfai on one sunny Saturday, the following weekend we had it to ourselthes, have a good time
In reply to Bernard Shakey:
Yeah that's what I thought. I'm sure we'll find something! Thanks for the reply
Yeah that's what I thought. I'm sure we'll find something! Thanks for the reply
Post edited at 12:03
In reply to gazfellows:
Really depends how you are with Abseils. Mother Careys is great but it is a fairly big abseil in, not the easiest to rig from the top. On the plus side there will almost certainly be other teams there so ab rope sharing may be an option.
Really depends how you are with Abseils. Mother Careys is great but it is a fairly big abseil in, not the easiest to rig from the top. On the plus side there will almost certainly be other teams there so ab rope sharing may be an option.
In reply to gazfellows:
If you have never climbed sea cliffs before Mother Carey's may not be the best choice. It's serious and intimidating. You could start off in the St Govans area where there many cliffs with both abseil and walk in access.
Al
If you have never climbed sea cliffs before Mother Carey's may not be the best choice. It's serious and intimidating. You could start off in the St Govans area where there many cliffs with both abseil and walk in access.
Al
4
In reply to gazfellows:
Mother Carey's is my favourite crag in Pembroke. It's pretty accessible, has great routes, stuff you can do at various states of tide and is very beautiful. It's not really an introduction to sea cliffs though, it's pretty full-on in terms of getting the tides right (it comes in very fast there!) and climbing in an intimidating setting. But jumping in the deep end can be fun and rewarding!
The most popular place to start is St Govans, because it's most accessible: non-tidal and not much trouble from the army. It does have good routes and it's convenient, but it's a bit like climbing in a big quarry and many of the routes are horribly polished. It's pretty shit compared to Pembroke at its best.
You'll find that the tides and army will dictate where you climb. If you want a gentle intro and you've got access to the Range, starting at somewhere like Stennis is a common starting point: easy scramble access, non-tidal, brilliant (but very popular) E1s. A bit further into the Range and you've just got bags and bags of quality: Bosherston, the Leap, and all the rest of it. Just get on the classic routes that are in the sun, and not underwater. Real "must do's" in the Range around E1/2 include Lucky Strike (E1 5b), Keelhaul (E2 5c), Manzoku (E1 5b), The Beast from the Undergrowth (E2 5b), Wishful Thinking (E1 5b) but all the classics are brilliant and live up to the hype.
Word of warning: beware of smeg. I've never quite understood it, but big seas and overcast, humid days will coat the rock in slippery slime and will add extra grades onto everything. Don't bother getting up early, the crags will be smeggy first thing.
It's some of the best climbing in the UK, have a great time.
Mother Carey's is my favourite crag in Pembroke. It's pretty accessible, has great routes, stuff you can do at various states of tide and is very beautiful. It's not really an introduction to sea cliffs though, it's pretty full-on in terms of getting the tides right (it comes in very fast there!) and climbing in an intimidating setting. But jumping in the deep end can be fun and rewarding!
The most popular place to start is St Govans, because it's most accessible: non-tidal and not much trouble from the army. It does have good routes and it's convenient, but it's a bit like climbing in a big quarry and many of the routes are horribly polished. It's pretty shit compared to Pembroke at its best.
You'll find that the tides and army will dictate where you climb. If you want a gentle intro and you've got access to the Range, starting at somewhere like Stennis is a common starting point: easy scramble access, non-tidal, brilliant (but very popular) E1s. A bit further into the Range and you've just got bags and bags of quality: Bosherston, the Leap, and all the rest of it. Just get on the classic routes that are in the sun, and not underwater. Real "must do's" in the Range around E1/2 include Lucky Strike (E1 5b), Keelhaul (E2 5c), Manzoku (E1 5b), The Beast from the Undergrowth (E2 5b), Wishful Thinking (E1 5b) but all the classics are brilliant and live up to the hype.
Word of warning: beware of smeg. I've never quite understood it, but big seas and overcast, humid days will coat the rock in slippery slime and will add extra grades onto everything. Don't bother getting up early, the crags will be smeggy first thing.
It's some of the best climbing in the UK, have a great time.
Post edited at 12:18
3
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Didn't know that - thanks. Is it really _that_ bad, or is it just a bit annoying?
> Word of warning: beware of smeg. I've never quite understood it, but big seas and overcast, humid days will coat the rock in slippery slime and will add extra grades onto everything. Don't bother getting up early, the crags will be smeggy first thing.
Didn't know that - thanks. Is it really _that_ bad, or is it just a bit annoying?
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Interesting choice of words
> It's not really an introduction to sea cliffs though...But jumping in the deep end can be fun and rewarding!
Interesting choice of words
2
In reply to SenzuBean:
It's really that bad. I remember trying to second the direct start of Cupid's Bow (an "HVS") with heavy smeg all over it. Even french freeing it was nails, just slip straight off the bastard, and everything feels super tenuous and unpredictable.
It's really that bad. I remember trying to second the direct start of Cupid's Bow (an "HVS") with heavy smeg all over it. Even french freeing it was nails, just slip straight off the bastard, and everything feels super tenuous and unpredictable.
In reply to RyanOsborne:
Okay thanks - really good to know. We were planning on trying some stuff super early in the morning this weekend and I guess if we still do, we now know to be super careful and drop a few grades
> It's really that bad. I remember trying to second the direct start of Cupid's Bow (an "HVS") with heavy smeg all over it. Even french freeing it was nails, just slip straight off the bastard, and everything feels super tenuous and unpredictable.
Okay thanks - really good to know. We were planning on trying some stuff super early in the morning this weekend and I guess if we still do, we now know to be super careful and drop a few grades
In reply to SenzuBean:
Really that bad, I'm afraid. Several well known routes are far better in the afternoon.
> Didn't know that - thanks. Is it really _that_ bad, or is it just a bit annoying?
Really that bad, I'm afraid. Several well known routes are far better in the afternoon.
In reply to gazfellows:
The tides are a little awkward this weekend (low tide early morning/evening). May be worth considering non-tidal crags, e.g. Stennis Head, Saddle Head. Lots there if it's your first visit.
The tides are a little awkward this weekend (low tide early morning/evening). May be worth considering non-tidal crags, e.g. Stennis Head, Saddle Head. Lots there if it's your first visit.
1
In reply to Jon Stewart:
'I've never quite understood it, but big seas and overcast, humid days will coat the rock in slippery slime'
If you walk past St Govan's on a windy day with big waves you will see a fine mist of salty sea spray being blown onto and often above the cliffs.
'I've never quite understood it, but big seas and overcast, humid days will coat the rock in slippery slime'
If you walk past St Govan's on a windy day with big waves you will see a fine mist of salty sea spray being blown onto and often above the cliffs.
In reply to John2:
Yes, I get the big seas bit, but it's often quite unpredictable - you get pretty much the same thing on still days too.
> 'I've never quite understood it, but big seas and overcast, humid days will coat the rock in slippery slime'
> If you walk past St Govan's on a windy day with big waves you will see a fine mist of salty sea spray being blown onto and often above the cliffs.
Yes, I get the big seas bit, but it's often quite unpredictable - you get pretty much the same thing on still days too.
In reply to gazfellows:
A lot of Mother Carey's has a bird restriction. Bosherton Head would be a good intro - nice walk along the top past Stennis Ford and then walk down, cracking rock....
A lot of Mother Carey's has a bird restriction. Bosherton Head would be a good intro - nice walk along the top past Stennis Ford and then walk down, cracking rock....
In reply to nniff:
Do you mean Stennis? Bosherston is the big headland with Preposterous Tales on the front and the Keelhaul wall (which has scramble access, but it's a bit on the dodge side, depending on the tide).
Do you mean Stennis? Bosherston is the big headland with Preposterous Tales on the front and the Keelhaul wall (which has scramble access, but it's a bit on the dodge side, depending on the tide).
In reply to nniff:
Not so...
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=420
> A lot of Mother Carey's has a bird restriction.
Not so...
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/ViewCrag.aspx?id=420
1
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Probably!
I'm thinking I should have just had another cup of coffee. Serves me right for taking a quick break and chipping in.
1/10. Poor. See me
Probably!
I'm thinking I should have just had another cup of coffee. Serves me right for taking a quick break and chipping in.
1/10. Poor. See me
Post edited at 17:00
1
In reply to gazfellows:
Saddle head (which I can't remember if it counts as part of st govens or not) is really good. Scramble down takes a little while or just ab in nice selection of climbs and part of its non tidal.
Saddle head (which I can't remember if it counts as part of st govens or not) is really good. Scramble down takes a little while or just ab in nice selection of climbs and part of its non tidal.
In reply to le_quack:
I suspect Saddle Head may be a bit easy given the OP's profile. Plus Saddle Head is the busiest spot on the coast on a bank holiday.
I suspect Saddle Head may be a bit easy given the OP's profile. Plus Saddle Head is the busiest spot on the coast on a bank holiday.
In reply to gazfellows:
I was in Pembroke for three days this weekend and didnt share a single crag with an other team, including trevellan. You might be surprised. And I agree with the sentiment. Don't get up early, have a lie in whilst the grease dries off and climb until sundown
I was in Pembroke for three days this weekend and didnt share a single crag with an other team, including trevellan. You might be surprised. And I agree with the sentiment. Don't get up early, have a lie in whilst the grease dries off and climb until sundown
In reply to Jon Stewart:
I didn't really rate Beast, it all felt a bit chossy (and I like choss) and unbalanced. If it wasn't in the Leap I doubt it would see that much traffic. Agree with the rest of your list though.
Depending on the bird bans Mowing Word is worth a visit. Diedre Sud, Heart of Darkness, Sealhunt and Chimes of Freedom are all superb. It's also got a delightful crag top for a picnic.
I didn't really rate Beast, it all felt a bit chossy (and I like choss) and unbalanced. If it wasn't in the Leap I doubt it would see that much traffic. Agree with the rest of your list though.
Depending on the bird bans Mowing Word is worth a visit. Diedre Sud, Heart of Darkness, Sealhunt and Chimes of Freedom are all superb. It's also got a delightful crag top for a picnic.
Post edited at 20:05
In reply to climbingpixie:
No bird ban at Mowing Word anymore. In fact I understand that the ban, having been imposed at a time some particular bird was nesting could have, and should have, been lifted almost at once as the phenomenon only lasted a year or two then the birds abandoned the site. The ban remained for a further 10 years or more for no good reason!
I certainly concur with the route recommendations and would add New Morning, Blowin' in the Wind, Snozwanger and, round the other side, Charenton Crack.
On a topic raised earlier about slimy rock, I've only had any problem with it low on the cliffs as the tide went out, but then I don't start early!
> Depending on the bird bans Mowing Word is worth a visit. Diedre Sud, Heart of Darkness, Sealhunt and Chimes of Freedom are all superb. It's also got a delightful crag top for a picnic.
No bird ban at Mowing Word anymore. In fact I understand that the ban, having been imposed at a time some particular bird was nesting could have, and should have, been lifted almost at once as the phenomenon only lasted a year or two then the birds abandoned the site. The ban remained for a further 10 years or more for no good reason!
I certainly concur with the route recommendations and would add New Morning, Blowin' in the Wind, Snozwanger and, round the other side, Charenton Crack.
On a topic raised earlier about slimy rock, I've only had any problem with it low on the cliffs as the tide went out, but then I don't start early!
In reply to climbingpixie:
I agree - but I think it's worth a route in the Leap for a Pembs virgin. Mythical Monster is way better, but it's a bit damp and weird for a first-timer recommendation - it didn't attract me on my first visit! And if you thought Beast was a bit shit and chossy, have you done the E1? Total crap!
Re. liking choss...it's a funny one, isn't it? I have had good times and bad times on novelty choss routes. A bit like psychedelic drugs, very dependent on the mindset you go in with, not everyone's cup of tea, and with great potential to result in vows of 'never again'.
Edit: Yes, Mowing Word is ace. Particularly Sealhunt, which I think is one of the best E1s in Pembroke, a little overlooked. Heart of Darkness is all very well, but I'm not sure it's really climbing. More, just shuffling along until it peters out, but in a spectacular position. The New Morning finish gives it a bit of actual climbing though...
> I didn't really rate Beast, it all felt a bit chossy (and I like choss) and unbalanced. If it wasn't in the Leap I doubt it would see that much traffic. Agree with the rest of your list though.
I agree - but I think it's worth a route in the Leap for a Pembs virgin. Mythical Monster is way better, but it's a bit damp and weird for a first-timer recommendation - it didn't attract me on my first visit! And if you thought Beast was a bit shit and chossy, have you done the E1? Total crap!
Re. liking choss...it's a funny one, isn't it? I have had good times and bad times on novelty choss routes. A bit like psychedelic drugs, very dependent on the mindset you go in with, not everyone's cup of tea, and with great potential to result in vows of 'never again'.
Edit: Yes, Mowing Word is ace. Particularly Sealhunt, which I think is one of the best E1s in Pembroke, a little overlooked. Heart of Darkness is all very well, but I'm not sure it's really climbing. More, just shuffling along until it peters out, but in a spectacular position. The New Morning finish gives it a bit of actual climbing though...
Post edited at 23:07
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Choss is good when you're expecting it, for instance having abbed into mousetrap zawn. Finding choss on a route you'd anticipated to be of high quality rock is something like finding halfway through a party that someone put some lsd in your kool aid, to use your analogy. Could go either way
Choss is good when you're expecting it, for instance having abbed into mousetrap zawn. Finding choss on a route you'd anticipated to be of high quality rock is something like finding halfway through a party that someone put some lsd in your kool aid, to use your analogy. Could go either way
Post edited at 10:29
In reply to Jon Stewart:
I'm not sure you're being entirely fair to Beast. It's not chossy in the sense of having loose blocks, and has two really good sections - up and right through the first bulge, then left and up to the crux bulge. Shape Up climbs really well as well.
I'm not sure you're being entirely fair to Beast. It's not chossy in the sense of having loose blocks, and has two really good sections - up and right through the first bulge, then left and up to the crux bulge. Shape Up climbs really well as well.
In reply to John2:
I think Beast's a good route, but only a classic because it's down the Leap. Shape Up, on the other hand, is garbage. The climbing is awkward from the start and most of the route consists of a loose, muddy gully.
I think Beast's a good route, but only a classic because it's down the Leap. Shape Up, on the other hand, is garbage. The climbing is awkward from the start and most of the route consists of a loose, muddy gully.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
I agree. I was underwhelmed by beast. Its good but nowhere near as good as nearby classics like keelhaul. Reminiscent of climbing on high tor, which isnt a bad thing, but its not pembroke at its best
I agree. I was underwhelmed by beast. Its good but nowhere near as good as nearby classics like keelhaul. Reminiscent of climbing on high tor, which isnt a bad thing, but its not pembroke at its best
Coming in late, here's my tuppence
Mother Carey's is without doubt one of the best crags in Pemb, if you can climb E1 and up BUT
it's a bit steep!
its tidal
the main set of crags from St G parking gives you loads of options to follow the sun, dodge the tide, dodge the wind, change the angle
MC is usually my final day crag since a) it's on the way home and b) i'll have warmed up after a few days on
Mother Carey's is without doubt one of the best crags in Pemb, if you can climb E1 and up BUT
it's a bit steep!
its tidal
the main set of crags from St G parking gives you loads of options to follow the sun, dodge the tide, dodge the wind, change the angle
MC is usually my final day crag since a) it's on the way home and b) i'll have warmed up after a few days on
Also recommending what was said above on Mowing Word being a great day 1 crag.
Great routes at all grades, incl easier ones, tidal options.
Afternoon/evening conditions there tend to be the best in the whole area in my experience.
Great routes at all grades, incl easier ones, tidal options.
Afternoon/evening conditions there tend to be the best in the whole area in my experience.
In reply to gazfellows:
Enjoy, its a great place to climb and my default go to place on Bank Holidays. I wouldn't worry about it being busy, Pembroke busy is still quieter than North Wales/Peaks/Lakes etc on a normal weekend. Just be flexible and don't expect to climb all the classics in a day!
I'd also disagree with Jons comments about St Govans, its a crag I always drift back too, both because of ease of access but also route quality. It is a bit worn but nothing that detracts from the climbing and has some of the best long single pitches going, especially further right of the Arrow.
Shape Up in the Leap is also (in my opinion) great, if it wasn't opposite the West Wall quality, I'd say it would get a lot more hype. Long, sustained and not overly tidal, its worth doing just for the excuse to ab in (the only ab that's got my heart going more was into Stackpole the first time!).
Enjoy, its a great place to climb and my default go to place on Bank Holidays. I wouldn't worry about it being busy, Pembroke busy is still quieter than North Wales/Peaks/Lakes etc on a normal weekend. Just be flexible and don't expect to climb all the classics in a day!
I'd also disagree with Jons comments about St Govans, its a crag I always drift back too, both because of ease of access but also route quality. It is a bit worn but nothing that detracts from the climbing and has some of the best long single pitches going, especially further right of the Arrow.
Shape Up in the Leap is also (in my opinion) great, if it wasn't opposite the West Wall quality, I'd say it would get a lot more hype. Long, sustained and not overly tidal, its worth doing just for the excuse to ab in (the only ab that's got my heart going more was into Stackpole the first time!).
2
In reply to irish paul:
Phew, I was beginning to think I was the only person who likes Shape Up. It's not the best of Pembroke, but it's a worthwhile route. Wild Frontier is worthwhile too - starts up Shape Up then traverses right and finishes up Slap Up.
Phew, I was beginning to think I was the only person who likes Shape Up. It's not the best of Pembroke, but it's a worthwhile route. Wild Frontier is worthwhile too - starts up Shape Up then traverses right and finishes up Slap Up.
1
In reply to Jon Stewart:
No, not done Shape Up. Will probably leave the Leap until I'm good enough to do some of the harder routes.
Yeah, choss is a weird one. When I did Red Wall I felt really cool and confident on it and it didn't faze me at all. I went back down there last year for Fantasia and redoing the first pitch and part of the second of RW was fecking terrifying! Different day, different headspace I guess.
No, not done Shape Up. Will probably leave the Leap until I'm good enough to do some of the harder routes.
Yeah, choss is a weird one. When I did Red Wall I felt really cool and confident on it and it didn't faze me at all. I went back down there last year for Fantasia and redoing the first pitch and part of the second of RW was fecking terrifying! Different day, different headspace I guess.
In reply to climbingpixie:
That's partly why I hate repeating routes. I once led Last Slip in the Avon Gorge, after putting it off for some considerable time, and have to say, rather immodestly, I cruised it. I've been back on it five times since either seconding or on a Shunt and every time I've wondered how the f*ck I ever led it.
Al
That's partly why I hate repeating routes. I once led Last Slip in the Avon Gorge, after putting it off for some considerable time, and have to say, rather immodestly, I cruised it. I've been back on it five times since either seconding or on a Shunt and every time I've wondered how the f*ck I ever led it.
Al
3
1
In reply to John2:
Not necessarily. Yes it happens now I'm old but was a feature of my climbing life even when I was at my (E2) best. I recall leading Ichabod with aplomb and a year later seconding it and wondering if I'd dreamt the lead! A few years on exactly the same thing happened with Saxon. Hence I concur with Gridnorth - never go back!
Incidentally, lest the above should be misleading, I do climb elsewhere than Scafell.
> That's called getting old.
Not necessarily. Yes it happens now I'm old but was a feature of my climbing life even when I was at my (E2) best. I recall leading Ichabod with aplomb and a year later seconding it and wondering if I'd dreamt the lead! A few years on exactly the same thing happened with Saxon. Hence I concur with Gridnorth - never go back!
Incidentally, lest the above should be misleading, I do climb elsewhere than Scafell.
In reply to GridNorth:
Its surprising isnt it. Ive tried to lead London wall twice since onsighting it (i didnt cruise it) a couple years back and got my arse kicked both times. One of those times was on the back of an indian creek trip too. Sometimes the headspace required for an onsight, especially when its something youve saved and built up to for a long time, is a pretty special thing
Its surprising isnt it. Ive tried to lead London wall twice since onsighting it (i didnt cruise it) a couple years back and got my arse kicked both times. One of those times was on the back of an indian creek trip too. Sometimes the headspace required for an onsight, especially when its something youve saved and built up to for a long time, is a pretty special thing
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