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Time to upgrade my crampons?

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 mmmhumous 02 May 2016
So up until this point, I've been climbing in North Face S4Ks (B2s) and Grivel G12s (new matic). I'm off to Rjukan this year and wondering if I need an upgrade.

While my current kit seems great for walk-ins and easy routes and fine for vertical ice, I was wondering if it was worth buying a second pair of crampons for grade IV-VI/ WI4-WI6? This season, I reached the point where I'm confident with my axe placement and started concentrating on my foot work. Main thing I noticed was that my current kit wasn't that supportive while front pointing on the steep stuff.

I've just bought a pair of B3s (but not had chance to use them in anger yet). Is it worth me splashing out on some clamp-o-matic semi-rigid or rigid crampons?


 GarethSL 02 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

Put simply yes. Mono or dual 'vertical' front point crampons are far better than those with horizontal points for ice climbing.

They bite better into the ice and are a far more stable platform to stand on. I reverted back to my horizontal front pointed crampons (Sabretooths), as an experiment for a couple of routes this winter after I broke my stingers. The only thing I can report from that stupid idea, is that its just not worth it. I managed to get them up WI5, but they inspire absolutely no confidence in your foot placements resulting in fast pumped out arms and no fun at all.

If you aren't sure and as you have the boots, you can always head to the Oldschool hostel and borrow a pair of crampons (free for a day) and try them out. You can then rent them if you feel more comfortable but sharpen them in the workshop there before you use them!

If you are also not too keen on spending, it might be worth looking around for some cheap g14's, stingers, cyborgs etc, buying new front-points and sharpening the others. That may save you a few pennies, but there is a lot to be said for new sharp gear!
 Graham 02 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

Absolutely. I remember switching from my Charlet Moser Blackice (very similar to the G12) to a pair of Grivel Rambos back in the day. I suddenly felt super secure where I hadn't before. I still keep a pair of horizontal crampons for mountaineering type climbing but for anything close to vertical or hard I use monopoints. Switch. I guarantee you won't regret it.
OP mmmhumous 02 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

Thanks both, that answers one of the questions I had in my head. i.e. "is it worth up grading to G14s just for the vertical front points."

The other two question I have going through my head are:
- If I got newmatic bindings I could use a pair of G14's with both my B2s and B3s, but would cramp-omatic give more security/support with the B3s?
-Are any of the more technical options (Rambo 4s, G20s, G22s, Darts, Stingers) adequate on snow or should I stick to G14s?
 GarethSL 02 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:
> - If I got newmatic bindings I could use a pair of G14's with both my B2s and B3s, but would cramp-omatic give more security/support with the B3s?

The advantage of 'cramp-o-matic' bindings is that they allow a truly custom fit for your boots and the ability to extend the front of the crampon further for longer points.

'Newmatic' bindings only allow adjustment at the rear and the big plastic toe is fixed on most (I think Petzl do an adjustable version). This means you may end up with shorter front points than ideal if you have a narrow toe on your boots, or if they are wide at the toe, points that are too long and a bad fit.

The latter is more 'all round' and can be used on a range of boots so is good for technical mountaineering, the former is more custom and allows for a range of options and thus better for technical climbing.

> -Are any of the more technical options (Rambo 4s, G20s, G22s, Darts, Stingers) adequate on snow or should I stick to G14s?

For crampon choice, I rarely climb on anything other than mono's. I have dual point crampons and notice it is a little less secure and not as precise, but this is the really personal end of whats good and whats better.

Your best option is to maybe go for something such as G14's, Cyborgs or Lynx's as they can be both mono and dual pointed.

If you are going to do a lot of mixed climbing in them afterwards, it really should be worth considering crampons with removable front-points (e.g. Stinger, Cyborg, G14, Lynx, Rambo 4 etc) as those without are expensive to replace if you wear them out or somehow manage to break one. I have heard the G22 and the Dart are excellent on ice, whilst that may be so that lack of a removable front-point doesn't convince me. They are of course intended as a light weight mixed crampon so I wouldn't be sure about durability for mountaineering/ Scottish stuff.
Post edited at 11:24
 MarcusP 02 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

Not the answer to your question, but if you decide that you want Cyborgs (the full step-in C3 Black Diamond crampons that can be run either mono or dual point) I'm selling a brand new pair for £110.
 GarethSL 02 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

Agh I miss-read your second question.

Vertical front'points aren't supposed to be the best for snow. Hard neve is generally ok and I have never noticed a difference. Anything softer and I'm normally standing on the whole of my foot. If its steeper then I would be kicking in steps.

There is a noticeable difference going downhill however, normally on descents from long mountain routes. Technical crampons often have less points and less 'breaking points'. I have slipped often in Stingers as they only have two breaking points and just cut through hard snow when pointing down. Which often results in me going backwards, kicking steps down relatively easy terrain.

If you are going to use them for mountaineering as well then I would definitely recommend those which have 4 'breaking points'!
 BnB 02 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

I have them, my partner has them, and pretty much everyone else I have climbed with this winter has been sporting a pair of Petzl Lynx crampons. A run through old threads on here will confirm that they are most widely accepted to be the best all-rounder. This doesn't necessarily make them the best for your boots and usage but they are certainly the first pair you should try on, especially at this time of year when prices will be keen.
OP mmmhumous 02 May 2016
In reply to GarethSL:
> The advantage of 'cramp-o-matic' bindings is that they allow a truly custom fit for your boots and the ability to extend the front of the crampon further for longer points.

> 'Newmatic' bindings only allow adjustment at the rear and the big plastic toe is fixed on most (I think Petzl do an adjustable version). This means you may end up with shorter front points than ideal if you have a narrow toe on your boots, or if they are wide at the toe, points that are too long and a bad fit.

> The latter is more 'all round' and can be used on a range of boots so is good for technical mountaineering, the former is more custom and allows for a range of options and thus better for technical climbing.

- Thanks, guess it'll come down to how well each fit my B3s if I decide to go with the G14s.
Post edited at 14:01
OP mmmhumous 02 May 2016
In reply to GarethSL:

> Agh I miss-read your second question.

> If you are going to use them for mountaineering as well then I would definitely recommend those which have 4 'breaking points'!

That pretty much rules out the G20s and G22s, making it a choice between G14s/Lynx or Rambo 4s. My mate's got a pair of rambos so I'll see if I can try them out next time we're at an ice wall to see if I get on with mono points.
 TobyA 02 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

For climbing steep ice, particularly if you aren't going somewhere ridiculously cold, I suspect you'll be surprised how little difference there is between G12s and some chunky monopoint crampons. If you go for darts or similar, the weight seems to be the first difference people note, I definitely found it a bonus with these weird things http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6227 but swapping regularly between terminators and G12s (roughly the same weight) for a number of seasons I found surprisingly little difference, particularly when the temperatures was in minus single figures or even around freezing.
OP mmmhumous 02 May 2016
In reply to BnB:

They would match my new orange B3s How are they for balling up? When I bought my G12s the 'prevailing wisdom' was that Grivel anti-balling plates where the dog's nads and anything else just wasn't Grivel.
 BnB 02 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

> They would match my new orange B3s How are they for balling up?

I've yet to have a problem in two season's use
 bonebag 02 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

Go for the G14's then if you get on with them ok I can get some too.
 NottsRich 03 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

> They would match my new orange B3s How are they for balling up? When I bought my G12s the 'prevailing wisdom' was that Grivel anti-balling plates where the dog's nads and anything else just wasn't Grivel.

My BD Cyborg's regularly ball up more than Grivels other people use, particularly in the alps when the snow is stickier later in the day.
 alasdair19 03 May 2016
In reply to mmmhumous:

I think the g14 is pretty heavy. light is pretty handy. I've had 4 pairs of vertical front point crampon all.are much better on ice. not convinced there is much to choose.between mono and dual points for ice.

the petzl dart is terrific if I was doing a lot of water ice I would keep a pair only for ice so they stay as sharp as possible

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