UKC

Anyone know the origin of the name of this knot?

I've also heard it called a choke knot eg in a snare, hanging etc.

See other thread on knot strengths.

In reply to Trangia:

Called 'girth hitch' in USA I believe.

In reply to Trangia:

I think it's because it looks like the claws on a lark?

In reply to Trangia:

Also heard it called a cows tail, lots of options!

In reply to spidermonkey09:

I thought a cows tail was something (sling etc) with a krab on the ends.

In reply to marsbar:

I thought a cows tail was something (sling etc) with a krab on the ends.

A cows tail, is a lanyard fixed 'statically' to the harness and with a krab at the other end.
Normally, it's a length of single dynamic which is attached attached to the harness with a re-tied fig of 8. This gives you the option of a short and long tail from the same length of rope.
Another version, is to larks foot a sling directly to the belay loop. This is used by many Sports Climbers for clipping into the belay bolts.

In reply to FactorXXX:

So it's not a knot.

The one I was thinking of is for water rescue, but I can't remember exactly. I think it has a ring one end and a krab the other maybe.

In reply to FactorXXX:

I normally attach my cows tails using a lark's foot into both loops of the harness directly. It's useful on trad on as well for clipping the belay - basically I never remove this from my harness outdoors. It's actually better in Nylon than dyneema as the dyneema sticks to velcro (which is a real pain), is more prone to getting tangled in gear (as it's thinner) and is also more risky if shock loaded.

In reply to marsbar:

That's basically the same as the climbing cow's tail described above but for attaching to the back of a rescue belt, which is usually threaded through a buoyancy aid.
If you just have a ring back there it's extremely difficult to get to it to clip or unclip a carabiner yourself, a cowtail gets around this by having a short sling attached to the ring and a carabiner on the other end so that you can pull it around in front of yourself to get at the carabiner.

In reply to marsbar:


Interesting idea. However it's known as a lark's head in French, which sort of confuses things.

In reply to jon:

Interesting. Google found me this (animated knots)

Names: In addition to "Lanyard Hitch", the Cow Hitch is also known as the "Lark's Head" – attributed to a literal translation from the French "tête d'alouette" (ABOK # 11, p 5). The subsequent transformation from "Head" to "Foot" originated in Modern Rope Techniques in Mountaineering by (the late) Bill March in 1973. He probably meant to say Lark's Head, but made a mistake when he showed it used for a foot loop.

In that case it's nothing to do with the claws. Maybe French people used it to strangle birds. I remember singing something about it in school French lessons.

In reply to deepsoup:

Thanks for that. I've not done much whitewater.

In reply to treforsouthwell:

I genuinely dislike every post i read of yours. You spout pure shite!
Nobody larks foot their tie in loops. Because you get squashed nads everytime you sit on belays.

STOP GIVING ADVICE IF YOU DONT KNOW SHIT.

Ps (saw a facebook post of yours on bristol climbers where you recommended to a young girl that ebay/gumtree was a great place to buy a used harness from. Terrible!

In reply to Trangia:

I do recall the booklet produced by Troll (written by Andy Perkins?) about the use of tape.
In that the lark's foot was described as 'death on a stick'. The phrase has stuck with me......

I think this may have been truer in the old days when one inch blue troll 'supertape' was almost the only game in town for making your own slings. That was so stiff that I could quite easily see a situation where the tape itself could act as a knife edge in a larks-foot; effectively cutting through the other 'strand'.

In reply to zimpara:

Well I hate to hold my hand up here but on sport routes I regularly use a 'daisy chain' sling with one end attached to my harness with a larks-foot for quick and easy clipping to the lower-off prior to rigging it. I attach it to my 'belay' loop as opposed to through the tie-in loops though.

In reply to zimpara:



This depends on your harness, mine is fine this but. You can use your belay loop too if you like but it's another link the system so you are trading away additional safety - especially if you accidentally shock loaded it. After all the belay loop isn't that different from a nylon sling.


You are entitled to your opinion, but you don't have to be a jumped up idiot about it. The correct way to post this would be:

"I prefer to connect to the belay loop as it's more comfortable"


Some people are happy to buy second hand gear from genuine sellers, personally I haven't ever had a problem. Now you are being patronizing too suggesting because she is a "young girl" that she won't know what she is talking about.

Maybe you are just having a bad day - and you post a whole load of crap - it's a free forum so go sit and spin!

In reply to zimpara:




You might like to do little research before blowing your mouth off.

If you're squaahing your nads you need to learn to fit your harness properly.

In reply to treforsouthwell:

attaching to the harness via belay loop is preferable as

1) it doesn't deform the harness. The belay loop is an integral part of the design,
some harness can squish the leg and waist loops together, but none of my harnesses
fit that way. (and womens are designed with a bigger 'drop')

2) because of the gap you can get movement of the two parts of the larks head
(I learnt it as cow hitch and larks head !) and hence wear.
Hitching to belay loop doesn't do this, it locks in place.

If your harness does have the 'waist' loop and leg loops tie in touching and they
don't move then it won't make much difference, however i think most /all 2 part
harnesses are designed to fit with that gap.

yes the belay loop is an extra link in the safety chain, but with inspection
and sensible replacement policy not an issue.

In reply to lithos:





The belay loop or rope if you have threaded waist and legloops when you tie in will do the same thing when you lean back to lower off or abseil.

IMO if a harness is well designed and properly fitted it is the link between the legloops that creates the "drop" rather than the belay loop.

In reply to zimpara:

Also, I didn't give any advice on this thread, I posted what how I normally use a Lark's Foot - try reading what was said carefully. This seems to be your general issue here and you have done this before. If I said "I generally solo my routes" would you think that was advice that solo'ing is a nice safe thing to do?

In reply to zimpara:


I lark's foot a cow's tail into the tie in loops, it keeps the sling well out of the way, tucked under the gear loops and clipped round the back,


Chris

In reply to zimpara:

Okay, this is totally off topic - but back on topic what I posted was not bullshit and backed up by others here. Time for an apology?

In reply to timjones:

sure but not when they are not loaded, ie when climbing. agree the design of the leg loops creates the drop but the belay loop and rope loops do not affect that when climbing. On a multipitch that will happen after each belay.

anyhow id always advise using the belay loop, I do as chris craggs says (if using a sling - i usually use a rope cows tail) but connected to bottom of belay loop

In reply to lithos:


Cheeky! That's what I do (see above). That Chris Craggs, whoever he is - obvious made-up pretend climbers name - lark's-foots to his tie-in loops and therefore is completely wrong and will undoubtedly die at a very young age.

In reply to Andy Say:

As long as you don't do what I saw a climber doing a couple of days back... She had one of those sewn rope cowstails - bit like this one: http://shop.blackjackmountainoutfitters.com/BlueWater-Ropes-DECELERATOR-SEW... with a krab attached to each end. But NEITHER end was attached to her belay loop - they were both clipped to her gear loops. An accident waiting to happen.

In reply to lithos:



At present I'm spending sometime each evening getting my aid climbing and jugging really sorted ready for a trip to Yosemite. I'm spending quite some time with 2 daisies plus an easy daisy hitched between the waist belt and legloops and it really isn't an issue at all

It also has the major advantage of keeping things tidier and tighter so that you gain a few extra inches on every single move

In reply to jon:


Well it might be a slight 'decelerator': like it says on the tin.......

In reply to timjones:

cool, just my experience of harnesses, but i saw an advert for a mamutt harness today
with a very short belay loop and reckon it'd be just as you say. I'll have a play with mine as i
haven't done any jugging foir ages

In reply to zimpara:




It depends where you store your nads, some people it's outside, some people it's inside.

I know people who thread the tie in loops and some people who teach it as an option.

For sport routes it only takes a minute to rethread a lower off.

In reply to winhill:


Eh? My balls are always 'outside'. And I don't have a lot of choice about it.




Unless its really, really cold or really, really scary.

In reply to Andy Say:



Or you misfit your climbing harness

In reply to Andy Say:

See I'm at an advantage here. Boobs are much better than balls.

In reply to marsbar:

Be sure to extend belay plate then.

In reply to Chris Craggs:



So do I. It also pulls the leg loop and waist loop together and keeps the belay loop free for my gri gri or ATC.
No squashed nads here - was super quick at belays on NIAD.

Wally

In reply to Bogwalloper:

I don't begrudge anyone choosing to use the tie in points but I use the belay loop as I have massive balls.

In reply to Andy Say:


I suggest you do a little research rather than show yourself up.

In reply to Mark Kemball:

I assumed it was sarcasm?

In reply to marsbar:

One can but hope!

In reply to Mark Kemball:

Hmm... not wishing to be unkind but the phrase, 'Hoist by his own petard...' comes to mind. Some guy called Will S, lived up near Brum.

Mick

In reply to marsbar:

Or gentle wit.

Mick

In reply to Andy Say:
That's precisely how daisy chains are designed to be used innit? Hence the half-twist in the bottom loop. (It's also the usual method for attaching a via-ferrata lanyard to one's harness.)

In reply to Mark Kemball:


Well I've never heard of him and it's such a stupid name it couldn't possibly be real, so I'm with Andy on this one.

In reply to Mark Kemball:

ps. Hi Chris.

In reply to john arran:




p.s. Hi, Chris.

In reply to Trangia:

http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/improvisation-larks-foot-or-basket-hitch-v...

In reply to zimpara:




Glass houses? :P

In reply to andrewmcleod:

No need for that Mr mcleod lol