UKC

Wharncliffe Crags

So there's some tags up at Wharncliffe, don't remember them being there last year, but there's quite a few around the great buttress area on boulders below the crags as well as the crags themselves.

Anyway, I tried to ignore it at the time, but I've decided I can do something about it as I have a bit of time on my hands at the moment, so was thinking of going to scrub it.

Obvious concern is that Wharncliffe is some kind of sandstone, so maybe I shouldn't touch it at all!

Other than that, I basically have no idea where to start, I'd rather not be going in with heavy chemicals, but don't want to be pissing into the wind with water and a toothbrush, so if anyone has any advice, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks, Oliver.

In reply to Oliver Houston:

I don't think you want to be brushing with anything very stiff and I don't know much about graffiti paint, but you could try some washing up liquid as it shouldn't do any harm to plant life.

I don't think it will work, though, in all likelihood.

In reply to Cake:

There is a cleaner called elephant snot which is supposed to be good for graffiti clean up.

In reply to Alex Riley:

Wow... there really is...

http://www.graffitisolutions.com/products/elephant-snot-gold-max

In reply to Alex Riley:

Many years ago my brother-in-law developed a graffiti cleaning system for stone & metal. It was never taken up. At the same time he developed an anti-graffiti coating.
Not sure we want to want to coat the crags with a nice slippery coating though.

Scope for grade creep?

In reply to Alex Riley:

Thanks, but I'm really not looking to spend money on a product that doesn't appear to be stocked in the UK.

In reply to Oliver Houston:

The best way by far of removing grafitti from sandstone is blasting with dry ice particles, which has become the standard method of removing paint from historical sandstone buildings.

Abrasion is absolutely minimal, as the dry ice particles sublimate on impact. Don´t know, though, whether it is possible or indeed affordable to rent a portable machine.

CB

In reply to cb294:

Hi CB, do you have any further information on the dry ice blasting?

Kind regards,

Sarah Cullen

In reply to Sarah Cullen:

Not really, but I know that it is often used here in Dresden, where most historical buildings are made from Elbe sandstone, and I heard that the university regularly hires such machines (or hires a service using them) to remove graffitti (AFAIK these machines are truck mounted).

Also, a quick google in German gives you many companies offering dry ice blasting as a service, and German wikipedia focusses on external cleaning application, while English wikipedia for some reason emphasizes use of dry ice blasting in food and semiconductor industries.

CB

In reply to Oliver Houston:

A few years ago I had to get a listed building externally cleaned as part of a refurb. This included some intricately carved sandstone details. The product used contained hydrofluoric acid (!) and did a fantastic job without dissolving the stone. Sandstone is apparently resistant to acid, unlike limestone.

I wouldn't recommend using HF, but might be worth trying some other kind of less lethal acid. As with everything, try it out first on a small inconspicuous area.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

I remember them, there is more recent stuff as well though. Or at least by my memory.

Maybe I'll see if I can help the older stuff along and wait for the newer stuff to fade, I don't fancy hauling up a dry ice blaster, or spending a lot of money on fancy products.

In reply to Oliver Houston:

Rock scars are often covered up by smearing mud onto the rock, which after a while encourages new lichen growth. I've had success using egg yolk etc too, see http://lichenlovers.org/lichen_growth_formula.phtml
Though this probably isn't ideal on rock where you want to climb but might make boulders under the crag look less bad

In reply to Oliver Houston:

It's a semi urban crag - consider it part of the charm!

In reply to Oliver Houston:

The ones from 2 years ago were pretty much all on rock with no routes (apart from the side wall of black slab which has a couple of esoteric things) - which made me suspect it was the work of climbers. Do the new ones directly affect any routes?

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Thats a ridiculous theory Simon. The rock happens to be accessible and fairly out of sight... and avoiding where you see people climb and hence where someone might come and give you serious aggro is a sensible tactic. I bet you were never naughty as a kid.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Interesting to the see the photos. But I very much doubt climbers will be responsible. Too busy climbing for one thing.

In reply to Offwidth:

Some of it is out of sight, but much of it is in plain sight, right next to untouched buttresses with routes on, in fact more visible from a distance as it's higher up (the first image).

I wouldn't exclude climbers as when there was another incident on one of the boulders in the woods there a few years ago, the UKC consensus seemed to be that it was a good thing, the vandals were artists and worthy of praise.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

More conspiratorial nonsense... critique UKC by all means but please don't unfairly implicate climbers for adding graffiti in climbing areas.

By out of sight I mean somewhere they can add 'tags' where they normally won't be seen by the only people down there.... the climbers, who mostly congregate on the best climbs.

In reply to Offwidth:

The 2014 graffiti is/was immediately adjacent to the most popular climbing areas (black slab and the alpha buttress area). I don't know about the recent additions.

To my mind it's a small step between praising someone spraying graffiti and doing it yourself. Many climbers on these forums a few years ago fell into the former category, why is it so shocking to think that one of them may have taken that extra step?

In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Rather hidden round the corner from Black Slab.. I was there last week showing someone the low grade delights of the crag and didn't notice it until the photo was posted here.

I've always recognised graffitti as misplaced art and I must admit I get increasingly strong urges to paint my lecture halls, my living room and my favourite climbs... thanks for explaining why and what's coming. You can visit me in jail next year and tell me you told me so.

On current news, before my criinality kicks in, we will be upgrading a quite a few lines on Offwidth, including Groovy, the crack and bold groove you gave me a heads up on (certainly HVD).

In reply to Offwidth:


Out of curiosity, why would you put a 'tag' somewhere it can't be seen? I always thought 'tagging' was the wannabe gangsters version of dogs pissing on lampposts - or is this yet another example of the lack of intellect involved in the activity?

In reply to Goucho:

Not the only tagged crag or venue thats hardly in clear public view. Maybe there are extrovert and introvert taggers.

In reply to mark20:

Thanks for a semi-sensible sounding suggestion. If there's a giant pile of mud under great buttress in the near future, don't worry, it'll be my new lichen farm...

For everyone else, thanks for the bumps, I don't care if it's climbers or not.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


Simon, that's just ridiculous. The tags as you say are clearly seen from a distance, specifically Deepcar. They have been put there by locals who live in the estate opposite or by people who want those tags to be seen by the same estate. The tags include various references to NTC/ Night Time Crew. Not sure when you last went climbing in the dark. I've been at the crag many times until dusk and there has been locals lads hanging around drinking sometimes. There have also been problems with rocks being chucked over the edge damaging mostly the boulders underneath but also some climbs. Quite a few appeared at exactly the same time as the graffiti. Climbers making sure that everyone else knows their place and stays off their territory then..??

The cliff top path has increasingly been used by people on off road bikes (and quads lower down) during the night and at weekends and they have been very aggressive towards me when asked to leave - Night Time Crew? Maybe, I'm just guessing.. but I know it wasn't climbers, even though, I obviously don't.

I would love to see the graffiti removed and if we can find a way Oliver I'm definitely up for taking part.