UKC

Budget 4-6k. Looking for a fast, fun quality 5 door car.

Candidates are A3 Sportback Quattro TFSI or 3.2 or BMW 130i about 50-60k. Wild card Panda 100HP.

I don't commute so mpg not really an issue. Headroom (6'3"), reliability and driver engagement are priorities.

I think the Audi has it for space, 130i for driver engagement and Panda for value.

Thoughts or other candidates?

In reply to iksander:

Go and say 24 Scoda Octavias and a dozen Hail Marys, you're a disgrace to UKC... then buy a bicycle!

In reply to EddInaBox:

Oh god, forgot about Skoda heresy!

In reply to iksander:

Only ever driven a 120. I found the steering to be terrifyingly responsive. Don't get me wrong it was fun. But i never felt as though i could relax in the car. God knows what a 130 would be like.

In reply to iksander:

Have a look at Skoda VRS, golf r32 etc. Those early 130is didn't get great reviews

In reply to iksander:

The Beemer is so far ahead of the other two for driver engagement that I wonder why you're even bothering to post. Golf is an alternative but I'd suggest the Gti is better than the R for cheap motoring thrills, although the latest R is a beauty.

In reply to iksander:

Go left field with an Alfa 147 gta

In reply to iksander:


But seriously... a vRS Skoda could be a decent shout?

In reply to jezb1:


Left field or left in the garage as it won't run?

In reply to jezb1:

Hmm overpowered, unreliable, impractical with tempramental handling.

Sounds like my kind of motor

In reply to iksander:

Mazda 3 MPS? Mitsubishi Colt Ralliart? Smart Fourfor Brabus?

In reply to iksander:

Over powered? That's part of the fun! Nearly all of them will have an lsd fitted by now anyway.

I had a 156 gta, never let me down, but admittedly you've got to give them plenty of tlc to keep them on top form.

In reply to iksander:

My eldest son has a re-mapped 130i M Sport while his youngest brother has an R32, having previously owned 2 S3 quattros. Both cars are ridiculously quick and extremely satisfying to drive. The 130i can be very tail-happy at junctions or exiting from roundabouts, even at low speeds and especially in the wet when it's an absolute nightmarish handful. It's got excellent roadholding (in the dry) but the ultra stiff suspension is totally unforgiving. Rough roads are a real stomach-churning trial. Plenty of 'driver involvement' in the 130i, often too much so. Not exactly the most, er, *relaxing* of cars to drive.

The R32 is a far nicer car to be in, sounds nicer with the V6 burble and has virtually as good roadholding as the BeeM. It does understeer at the limit but it's grip levels are far better than the 130i due to 4wd, especially in the wet when you don't make any allowances for road conditions and just drive as normal. It's suspension is also very stiff but is far more comfortable than the rock-hard BMW's ride and you can effectively drive it much faster on a rough surfaced road. In the wet it leaves the 130i for dead. I know; I've seen it happen.

My youngest son prefers the S3 to the R32 as a pure driver's car. Very, very quick, cornered as if on rails, with far more balanced and predictable handling, but also comfortable to ride in. He says that, in time, he'll go back to an S3. I too always enjoyed driving his S3s and so tend to agree with him.

FWIW, my opinion, having ridden in and driven all three, I would place them in the following order:

1st: S3
2nd: R32
3rd: 130i

As the owner of an extremely rare Fiat Tipo 2.0 16v Sedicivalvole, and having owned many Fiats over the years, I've got a very soft spot for Fiats. We once had a 4x4 Mk 2 Panda and really liked it, so can really see the appeal of the 100bhp. But, fun though it probably is, it won't be a patch on an Audi or Beemer.

Hope these musings are of some help - or food for thought if nothing else.

In reply to Dave Williams:

That's super helpful thank you. Not sure if my budget can stretch to an S3 with sensible miles, but a remapped A3 TFSI quattro might be getting near S3 territory.

Congrats on the Tipo, I very much enjoyed an Uno Turbo ie as a youngster

In reply to iksander:

The road tax on those is going to be horrendous isn't it?

Do you have a garage? If so and it's driver involvement you're after... Seven

If not, Clio 172/182 or MX5 (try one, I bet you'll fit). M3 is good but servicing is horrendous, the 130i would be a better bet.
jk

In reply to Dave Williams:


I've only got a TDI 170 quattro A3 but I can confirm that it goes round corners very quickly indeed without anything unexpected happening.

In reply to BnB:

Why thank you. my Shiny new R (DSG) was delivered Friday. it is quite frankly astonishing in performance (but can be very well behaved and return ok mpg if you desire - high 30s), great kit and looks nice and understated (except it currently stands out as it's spotlessly clean).

In reply to iksander:
Shame on you for even considering a vag motor if you care about driving dynamics. And shame on the previous poster for remapping a naturally aspirated straight six. I.. have no words?

Since you posted this on the wrong forum (ie not on piston heads) I will clear it up for you.

Buy the beemer. The straight six is refined, efficient, sounds great and sings to the redline. It is also rear wheel drive. Which is what you want. If you don't enjoy kicking the tail out when pulling out of a junction then you don't enjoy driving. Anyway. Just buy one in manual, take the run flats off and enjoy.

Other options you SHOULD be looking at (ie not small turbocharged understeering Audi's or Skoda's) include - clio and Megane cups, e46's, 350z etc

In reply to balmybaldwin:


I think Autocar rates the R as the best "affordable" driver's car around today. The hatred it inspires amongst BMW drivers seems to back up the claim. I had a test drive and was extremely impressed but you can't put a tow bar on the estate version, sadly.

In reply to iksander:

having had an S3 and now access to a a 1 series, I'd take the BMW anyday, yes it loses its back end, but thats the fun. The Audi was more comfortable but I've never gotten out of the BMW feeling tired and weary from driving it and nobody sitting on the left has had an issue, except possibly the tail.

I haven't driven every car under the sun but I do enjoy the BMW's over the majority of cars I have driven for any period of time, especially when it comes to 5 doors (for driving).


Side note
The old type R was mint too, but horrible road noise in the cabin, I never saw a 5 door either) and you'd be hard to find one worth buying now I imagine. And the s2000 for a 2 seater. Do love that old Vtec engine.

Yours in ignorance
IMA

In reply to iksander:

I have a 1 series (123d M Sport Coupe - so not applicable to your options) and its great fun in the dry, tolerable in the wet, but as has been said a bit of a handful round corners and a very unrelaxing, albeit engaging, drive. If I were to replace it now I'd not get another - I'd get a 3.0Tdi V6 Audi A4/A5 - fast, fairly frugal, reliable and spacious.