This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
14
27
In reply to bonebag:
How much of that is down to free market capitalism, and how much is down to us being members of the EU?
I seem to see things like that happening in countries outside of the EU too, so I'm wondering if most of these things might have happened anyway, due to how cut throat capitalism can be.
How much of that is down to free market capitalism, and how much is down to us being members of the EU?
I seem to see things like that happening in countries outside of the EU too, so I'm wondering if most of these things might have happened anyway, due to how cut throat capitalism can be.
Post edited at 17:59
12
2
14
In reply to bonebag:
Well you've listed a load of companies that have chosen to move to other locations. What you haven't shown is what you would do to stop them - pull up the drawbridge and shut them in ? isolate ourselves from one of their main markets ?
In Hinkley C you have done a good job of showing exactly why you shouldn't leave any long term strategic decision in the hands of any UK government. Thank goodness that at least they currently don't have to worry about a load of long term environmental strategy.
Well you've listed a load of companies that have chosen to move to other locations. What you haven't shown is what you would do to stop them - pull up the drawbridge and shut them in ? isolate ourselves from one of their main markets ?
In Hinkley C you have done a good job of showing exactly why you shouldn't leave any long term strategic decision in the hands of any UK government. Thank goodness that at least they currently don't have to worry about a load of long term environmental strategy.
18
2
In reply to bonebag:
OK. So show the relevance of that to the EU and can go from there.
> The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
OK. So show the relevance of that to the EU and can go from there.
8
1
In reply to bonebag:
Is this true? Hasn't he loudly affiliated himself with the leave campaign?
> Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan
Is this true? Hasn't he loudly affiliated himself with the leave campaign?
In reply to mullermn:
Dyson moved manufacturing to Malaysia a few years ago. Dunno about the EU grant, can't imagine how that would work as he's moved business out of the EU.
> Is this true? Hasn't he loudly affiliated himself with the leave campaign?
Dyson moved manufacturing to Malaysia a few years ago. Dunno about the EU grant, can't imagine how that would work as he's moved business out of the EU.
5
8
4
2
In reply to bonebag:
. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK,
Well
Rolls.Royce
BAe
Honda
Toyota
General Motors
ARM
Jaguar LandRover
Wolfson
Etc
. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK,
Well
Rolls.Royce
BAe
Honda
Toyota
General Motors
ARM
Jaguar LandRover
Wolfson
Etc
6
3
In reply to bonebag:
You might well find that the vast majority of those decisions are made for cost cutting reasons.
While the EU may well have offered incentives on occasions in the form of grants to try and stimulate growth in slower moving member state economies, I doubt the EU held a gun to the heads of the CEO's of said businesses?
Please don't confuse the global free market economy, with EU bad guys hiding in the wardrobe - either unintentionally or not?
You might well find that the vast majority of those decisions are made for cost cutting reasons.
While the EU may well have offered incentives on occasions in the form of grants to try and stimulate growth in slower moving member state economies, I doubt the EU held a gun to the heads of the CEO's of said businesses?
Please don't confuse the global free market economy, with EU bad guys hiding in the wardrobe - either unintentionally or not?
3
In reply to Goucho:
Surely Brexiters themselves are champions of the free market economy ? ... or perhaps not, because of course they seem to loath the European open market.
Surely Brexiters themselves are champions of the free market economy ? ... or perhaps not, because of course they seem to loath the European open market.
Post edited at 19:20
1
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Some might be.
Some might not be.
Some will say they are but only for when it suits them.
> Surely Brexiters themselves are champions of the free market economy ?
Some might be.
Some might not be.
Some will say they are but only for when it suits them.
1
1
In reply to KevinD:
Yup. So all we can now do, perhaps, until Thursday, is grin and bear it, and maybe write a song using your lines.
Yup. So all we can now do, perhaps, until Thursday, is grin and bear it, and maybe write a song using your lines.
Post edited at 19:26
In reply to MG:
Here are some more to add to MG's list.
Honda and BMW both have car manufacturing plants in Swindon, where BMW build the Mini.
Intel are also in Swindon. There are electronics factories manufacturing chips in South Wales. There are many more companies than you are suggesting in your initial post.
To leave would be a disaster for manufacturers and anyone employed in the UK. It would lead to punishing import tariffs being imposed by our main market - the EU - and the loss of jobs in the UK for many many thousands of employees.
Here are some more to add to MG's list.
Honda and BMW both have car manufacturing plants in Swindon, where BMW build the Mini.
Intel are also in Swindon. There are electronics factories manufacturing chips in South Wales. There are many more companies than you are suggesting in your initial post.
To leave would be a disaster for manufacturers and anyone employed in the UK. It would lead to punishing import tariffs being imposed by our main market - the EU - and the loss of jobs in the UK for many many thousands of employees.
5
1
2
In reply to bonebag:
I'm not an economist but I strongly suspect thats due to UK policy rather than the EU - you wouldn't be able to put together a similar list in France
I'm not an economist but I strongly suspect thats due to UK policy rather than the EU - you wouldn't be able to put together a similar list in France
1
In reply to bonebag:
I can't believe you missed all of these!
https://twitter.com/hashtag/mordauntfacts?src=hash
Particularly chilling is the impending Brussels Ban on milk in tea. Plucky Brits will fight the Eurocrats until the last teacup is prised from our cold dead hands!
I can't believe you missed all of these!
https://twitter.com/hashtag/mordauntfacts?src=hash
Particularly chilling is the impending Brussels Ban on milk in tea. Plucky Brits will fight the Eurocrats until the last teacup is prised from our cold dead hands!
3
1
In reply to Peter Metcalfe:
Yorkshire pudding to be renamed "Fried Unflavoured Clafoutis Kuchen"
is my favourite
Yorkshire pudding to be renamed "Fried Unflavoured Clafoutis Kuchen"
is my favourite
2
In reply to Sir Chasm:
Ok Sir Chasm, apologies for that and to everyone else. It was from an AIM share forum. Since we had reasons to remain the other day thought I'd cut and paste this just to promote more healthy debate.
There will be no more from me but interesting to see what folk think.
Ok Sir Chasm, apologies for that and to everyone else. It was from an AIM share forum. Since we had reasons to remain the other day thought I'd cut and paste this just to promote more healthy debate.
There will be no more from me but interesting to see what folk think.
2
In reply to bonebag:
The EU is asset-stripping the UK? I rather thought it was this government actually.
The EU is asset-stripping the UK? I rather thought it was this government actually.
4
In reply to bonebag: Oddly I was thinking about Bombardier the other day as my brother works there. Leave the EU and he thinks they're out in months.
7
In reply to bonebag:
Have you heard of a little something called the Intercity Express Project? Plenty of new trains being built in Newton Aycliffe.
Viva Rail are a wholly British owned vehicle manufacturer (refitting old tube stock for mainline operation).
The long list of companies which you have given would likely have relocated regardless of grants, they simply allowed the relocations to occur sooner. The governments have not provided the manufacturing industry with enough support over the last 20 years, if they had then the plants would have stayed here.
Have you heard of a little something called the Intercity Express Project? Plenty of new trains being built in Newton Aycliffe.
Viva Rail are a wholly British owned vehicle manufacturer (refitting old tube stock for mainline operation).
The long list of companies which you have given would likely have relocated regardless of grants, they simply allowed the relocations to occur sooner. The governments have not provided the manufacturing industry with enough support over the last 20 years, if they had then the plants would have stayed here.
In reply to Phil1919:
There are arguments, mainly from left wing sources that they can and will.
http://www.leftfutures.org/2015/09/eu-membership-means-no-renationalisation...
> Is the EU stopping us renationalising companies?
There are arguments, mainly from left wing sources that they can and will.
> What a pity, therefore, that Labour cannot renationalise it! Britain is a member of the European Union (EU) and as such bound by the EU Treaties. Indeed, every British court is duty-bound to enforce every EU law in preference to any conflicting British statute. Under Article 106, the EU prohibits public monopolies exercising exclusive rights where this violates EU competition rules. The EU’s Court of Justice has interpreted Article 106 as giving private companies the right to argue before the national courts that services should continue to be open to private-sector competition. Nationalised services are prima facie suspect and must be analysed by the judiciary for their “necessity”. Thus the EU has given companies a legal right to run to court to scupper programmes of public ownership.
http://www.leftfutures.org/2015/09/eu-membership-means-no-renationalisation...
Post edited at 22:53
1
1
In reply to bonebag:
I've been working in electronics for nearly 30 years and it is not the EU which is responsible for its decline in the UK. It is partly due to technical factors like Moore's law which will continually reduce the number of chip manufacturing plants no matter what the politicians do, partly because everything has been allowed to move to China and Taiwan and partly because the UK government really doesn't give a toss about electronics.
I've been working in electronics for nearly 30 years and it is not the EU which is responsible for its decline in the UK. It is partly due to technical factors like Moore's law which will continually reduce the number of chip manufacturing plants no matter what the politicians do, partly because everything has been allowed to move to China and Taiwan and partly because the UK government really doesn't give a toss about electronics.
5
In reply to bonebag:
Most of the things you list happened because of the British government, not the EU. We focussed on financial services and breaking the unions. Other countires focussed on manufacturing and working with the unions.
Farming and fishing policy is a bit rubbishly designed, granted. I'm not sure it destroyed the fixhung industry - fact is we needed to stop catching so much. The EU just had a stupid way of making that happen.
Most of the things you list happened because of the British government, not the EU. We focussed on financial services and breaking the unions. Other countires focussed on manufacturing and working with the unions.
Farming and fishing policy is a bit rubbishly designed, granted. I'm not sure it destroyed the fixhung industry - fact is we needed to stop catching so much. The EU just had a stupid way of making that happen.
5
1
In reply to Big Ger:
Article 345 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, states: ‘The Treaties shall in no way prejudice the rules in Member States governing the system of property ownership.’http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:12008E345
All across the EU states have majority shares or own and run their own transport and energy sectors. This is confirmed in this 2013 Estep report, commissioned by the EU: http://www.esparama.lt/es_parama_pletra/failai/ESFproduktai/2_UM_valstybes-...
In particular the report states: ‘SOEs are entitled for public services provision, which can be broadly observed in utility sectors such as transport, telecommunications or energy.’
While nationalisation may be restricted it is not banned or illegal. This is a widely-believed myth, promoted, in particular, by the anti-EU “left”.
Article 345 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, states: ‘The Treaties shall in no way prejudice the rules in Member States governing the system of property ownership.’http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:12008E345
All across the EU states have majority shares or own and run their own transport and energy sectors. This is confirmed in this 2013 Estep report, commissioned by the EU: http://www.esparama.lt/es_parama_pletra/failai/ESFproduktai/2_UM_valstybes-...
In particular the report states: ‘SOEs are entitled for public services provision, which can be broadly observed in utility sectors such as transport, telecommunications or energy.’
While nationalisation may be restricted it is not banned or illegal. This is a widely-believed myth, promoted, in particular, by the anti-EU “left”.
3
1
In reply to The New NickB:
I don't disagree Nick. But...
I don't disagree Nick. But...
> The 2012 Directive has kept that principle and goes even further, and says that one of its aims is "to boost competition in railway service management". It also stipulates that: "Greater integration of the Union transport sector is an essential element of the completion of the internal market... The efficiency of the railway system should be improved, in order to integrate it into a competitive market".
> In short, this means that multiple train operating companies must be allowed to use the same track competitively. In Germany it has resulted in the state-owned Deutsche Bahn facing more and more competition from other firms.
> Some claim that “European rules do not dictate that railways must be fully privatised” – note the interesting use of the word “fully”. It’s true that UK law has gone further than the EU law currently requires, but it is also true that the EU would prevent a nationalisation agenda from going as far as many would like.
LikePost edited at 08:25
In reply to marsbar:
If we in the EU remain will, must we immediately German word order adopt
If we in the EU remain will, must we immediately German word order adopt
> Yorkshire pudding to be renamed "Fried Unflavoured Clafoutis Kuchen"
> is my favourite
2
In reply to bonebag:
Manchester, East Midlands and Stanstead Airports are approx 2/3 owned by the 10 councils in Greater Manchester. The other third being an Australian (I think) venture capital company that injected the funds to acquire Stanstead a few years ago. Before then Manchester & East Midlands were totally owned by the councils.
I think they also own Bournemouth Airport - relatively tiny.
Birmingham Airport is owned by Birmingham City Council - I think they still own 100%.
> UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Manchester, East Midlands and Stanstead Airports are approx 2/3 owned by the 10 councils in Greater Manchester. The other third being an Australian (I think) venture capital company that injected the funds to acquire Stanstead a few years ago. Before then Manchester & East Midlands were totally owned by the councils.
I think they also own Bournemouth Airport - relatively tiny.
Birmingham Airport is owned by Birmingham City Council - I think they still own 100%.
1
In reply to bonebag:
Which part of the mini cars are built mostly in Holland?
Because the bodywork is pressed out in Swindon, welded together in Oxford and the engines are made in Hams Hall near Coventry.
So if this fact is SO wrong you might need to check your others.
Which part of the mini cars are built mostly in Holland?
Because the bodywork is pressed out in Swindon, welded together in Oxford and the engines are made in Hams Hall near Coventry.
So if this fact is SO wrong you might need to check your others.
1
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Fri Night Vid Le Toit de Ben - Quebec 1958
This week's Friday Night Video whisks us back to Val-David, Quebec, in the Autumn of 1958. Two daring young climbers embark on the ascent of a route that seemed unattainable, resembling a roof suspended in the air, defying all the conventions of the time....
3 May
Loading Notifications...