UKC

Afternoon all,

After some of your experiences from going to University as an "older" person, mainly financially wise!

Thinking of a career change with the long term goal of becoming a paramedic, obviously this would involve some studying time. With tuition fees as they are how has anyone managed to afford it? My wife is just about to start maternity leave as well which will leave us even shorter of cash!

I give it 10 minutes before the EU makes it's way into the conversation!

Thanks
Juan

In reply to JuanTinco:

I went back to University at the age of 43 to do a Masters degree in something I was interested in. Financially, I was very fortunate in that I had sufficient money from the sale of a property, and a supportive partner who was working so there weren't too many financial sacrifices necessary.

I loved it - after too many years putting up with corporate bollocks, it was lovely to be doing something I was interested in. I was the oldest student on the course by far - many of the other students were recent graduates, and there was in interesting difference in the way we approached essay-writing and the like. I'm reasonably literate and have good research skills, so I found it all quite easy, which I think reflected 20-odd years of work, whereas many of the younger students found the step up from undergraduate studies to Masters-level studies quite challenging.

As it turned out, I wasn't able to get into a job using the MSc - having worked a certain way up the career ladder, I was reluctant to drop too far down and the kinds of jobs I was interested in were few and far between, and employers were more interested in younger cheaper candidates. That may not be the case with your choice of paramedic - I'd hope there's a good demand for paramedics.

Good luck if you decide to go ahead with it!

In reply to JuanTinco:
I did a masters as a mature student. I was 32. Because of the nature of the course, about 1/3 of the students were over 30 and had worked for a number of years - the rest were recent graduates in their early 20s. As tony said above, it was interesting to see how the different groups approached essay writing etc.

Financially, I was "lucky" in that I had just been made redundant by a big pharmaceutical company, so most of the money I spent came from my redundancy package. I also got a small loan from the SAAS (Scottish student loans company - you may be able to get a full student loan if you don't have any other degrees but if you have had a loan from them before the amount you can borrow will be lower). In addition I took out a career development loan. These loans, at the time at least, were interest free until your period of study finished. I took mine and just left it in an account, then paid it back before I accrued any interest. I really just had it as a safety net for unforeseen circumstances. And, as above, it did help to have a supportive partner who was working.

Good luck!

Edited: Actually, thinking about it, I think I was obllged to use the career development loan for tuition fees, so I put aside the same value from my redundancy package to pay it back - either way the point was that I paid it off before it accrued any interest.

In reply to JuanTinco:

I'm in the last three months of a Masters which I've done part time over the last two years - I've just turned 40. I've been able to do it because of a financially supportive partner, and also working part-time (I wouldn't recommend this, in retrospect, as it fries one's brain a little). Like Tony, I'm really enjoying the opportunity to actually use my brain - if all goes well there's a plan to carry on to PhD.

In reply to kathrync:


The Student Loans Company for (I thought!) the whole UK is now charging interest on your loan whilst you study. The govt. changed the terms rather quietly a few years back. I took out the full loan (9k) to pay the fees for my PGCE last year and I, like most others it seems from recent media stories, didn't realise how much interest would accrue while I studied (I had taken a couple of loans back in the 90s when doing my first degree). Once your course finishes, the rate drops again until you are earning over the threshold (21K IIRC) and being a first year teacher I'm not there yet. But I checked recently and I now owe an additional 450 odd quid on my base of 9000. As best I can work out, most of that interest is from the year (actually more like 9 months) when I was studying, not the year since when I have been working. It's not terrible if you are doing just a one year course like a PGCE, but for kids doing 3 or 4 year first degrees, particularly if needing loans for fees and living support, by the time they finish their course they will owe thousands more than they have actually borrowed before earning a penny.

Of course that new higher rate still isn't much (RPI + 3%, so currently 3.9%) compared to borrowing it from a credit card or something, but a lot of students don't seem to realise that it has gone up considerably from the case a few years back.

In reply to TobyA:

The student loans company and career development loans are not the same thing and are administered entirely separately. Career development loans are (or were) issued by certain high street banks under a government scheme (https://www.gov.uk/career-development-loans/overview). In addition, loans in Scotland are administered by the Student Awards Agency for Scotland not the Student Loans Company.

I can't remember what if the student loan I took from SAAS accrued interest while I was studying or not - to be honest I was only entitled to just over £1000 from them as I have two prior degrees from the 90s so I didn't worry about that too much.

My comment regarding interest was about the career development loan and was true at the time (about 3 years ago - think link I posted above says this is still true) - but of course if the OP is interested in going down that route he should check the terms and conditions.

In reply to JuanTinco:

Thanks for all the replies.

It's good to hear I'm not alone in thinking about studying later in life and to hear from people doing it.

As with most things in life money may be the deciding factor. In some ways I'm lucky with owning a property, no debts from previous courses (owing to an Military career from 16) and a bit of savings. Even so I would need to look at the funding available - 3.9 on the student loan isn't as horrific as I first thought though.

Has anyone applied for funding from the NHS in the past? I imagine it is slowly being reduced - but that may just be down to the fact money and the NHS are in the news a lot at the moment.

Thanks
Juan

In reply to kathrync:

Ah I see - there is the career development loans and the student loans. I'm slowly discovering what am minefield it can be.

Thanks for the update
Juan

In reply to JuanTinco:

Currently studying for a BEng part time. I'm 42. Finance is not really an issue as I'm only part time, and supported by my employer (BY FAR the best way to do it if you can!)

Workload and getting back into maths etc was hard to begin with but now working hard and getting excellent grades. Much better than my first degree when I was 18.

Go for it if you can.

In reply to JuanTinco:

Depending where you are in the country some Ambulance Trusts are still funding training. I cannot comment on the quality of paramedic training at university vs on the job (like most careers, be its the on the job bit of training that's important). Personally I wouldnt be tempted to be at least 20-30 grand in debt before I started, for the kind of moral sapping black hole of a long term career with the ambulance service. There a good reason there's a shortage of them.

There plenty of blogs and forums about that will give you a good insight into it. Many of them harrowing accounts of endless shifts, violence and aggression from punters and bullying and vindictive management.


D

In reply to Dauphin:
Good point about the training on the job - from what I can gather trusts are reducing those now.

After 12 years in the L£gion £trang£re I look forward to shift work and poor management!

Thanks
Juan

Edit: Sorry that reads a bit high and mighty, not trying to diminish the job or how hard it is

In reply to JuanTinco:

Depends where you live. I know East of England are funding their Paramedics through their course. Different trusts do different things but look at what your local ones offer. May save you a fortune. (As for age health care courses often attract an older age group so go for it!)

In reply to JuanTinco:

I did BEng Electronic & Electrical Engineering @ Manchester when I was 33 - 36, in the last few years that one could still get a grant. I'd grown up sufficiently by then that I went to every lecture, unlike first time around! It was OK, but I found it hard going during the last semester.
There's no way I would do it these days though, what with taking on a multiple £10,000 debt

In reply to JuanTinco:
There seems to be a lot of graduate paramedics not even staying in long enough to make it to the top point of band 5 before leaving.

And now if you want to progress further in your career you will likely need a masters degree in advanced practice. So that's another 3 years part time study, and £6k+ if you self fund.

A lot of work for a profession that will see you trapped into working a rotating shift pattern that messes up your sleep, your health and your social/ family life.

In reply to JuanTinco:

vimeo.com/166925830

Might give you a better idea of what it's really like at the moment, before you make a big decision.

In reply to JuanTinco:

I began a PhD in geosciences at the age of 41, after getting fed up with a career in IT that seemed to be leading inexorably to management or a complete reskilling every 3-5 years. It's worked out OK so far but I did get funding for three years. Not sure if that helps... you are in with a good chance of getting a funded PhD place if you've been out in the so-called "real-world" for a few years as that gets seen as providing the maturity and self-discipline to undertake a doctoral programme. I hope!

Peter

In reply to JuanTinco:

I retrained as an optometrist recently, previously a civil servant. Starting from scratch like this - a BSc (3yrs full time) then post-grad professional qualification (working for minimum wage and doing constant exams for a year+) was kind of drastic.

I absolutely loved being a student again (obviously) and quickly became accustomed to having no money. Redundancy money paid the fees and some of the living costs; I spent all my savings, and borrowed loads. I could have worked more during the degree and borrowed a bit less, but I didn't. Definitely worth it, never looked back.

In reply to JuanTinco:

Did it at 31. Bsc Environmental Science. Loved it. Borrowed as much money as possible. Back on building site now, 11 years later. Would do same again. Go for it.

In reply to JuanTinco:

I went back at 28, but stayed in work part time and did it part time over 2 years. No kids though.

I know of two mates that have gone back and done Social Work courses. Lots of well paid temp work if that interests you, or career progression if you're willing to pay the game. Both made fairly significant financial sacrifices but are pretty pleased with their choice

In contrast, the course i did at 28 was hard work, out of my comfort zone, and necceessiated me doing another 4k worth of proffesional qualifications to get somewhere. It put me on the right track, but right at the start of it

In reply to JuanTinco:
Undertook a BA (Hons) at 39 in 2002 helped by working weekend nights as a Registered Nurse (first real qualification in 1987) for 3 years to help cover the bills, had 4 weekends a year off which hit the family holidays and climbing somewhat. My Wife supported me financially and emotionally through it, just saying go for it helped a lot. Undertook an Art History MA at 45 part time and also worked part time in the off days in temp Admin. Ended up achieving part of the career goals and now at 52 embarking on further Post Grad MFA to enhance Academic Job opportunities and current ideas.

Life since 2002 has been a series of part time jobs and juggling finances accompanied with the support of my Wife which has made all the difference.

I still work as an RN on a very ad hoc basis mainly to cover the Easter, Summer period whilst working part time as a an Associate Art HE Lecture at a local University. At some point, somewhere the Associate role will become more permanent Glass half full optimism!


I wouldn't change any of it.

In reply to JuanTinco:
Not quite there yet, but am starting a full-time MSc in Oceanography in Sept after 20 years as a programmer in IT and the last 8 years doing a part-time OU Maths degree.

I've managed to save some money as I'm in a relatively well-paid job, but will be taking the new postgraduate loan as the fees have pretty much doubled over the last couple of years to £9000 for the year. And I keep buying shiny things.

My plan is to apply for a PhD, so if I get funding I won't be paying the loan back for at least 4 years (unless I can pick up a bit of programming work).

I'm 44. Reading the replies from others of a similar age who've trodden a similar path is making me feel slightly less terrified about the whole thing

Good luck. I did consider the paramedic thing when I was first having the 'I hate my job, what can I do that I might actually enjoy' thoughts.

In reply to JuanTinco:

Tangiential but hopefully helpful - email the admissions tutors at candidate institutions and arrange to talk to them on the phone or video call. Draw up a list of questions in advance to help you get a feeling from them about institutional support and experience with mature students; this may be useful in terms of opinion shaping and decision making.

In reply to JuanTinco:

I'm just coming to the end of a part time MSc done over two years. I have worked full time for the duration and my son has gone from 1 to 3 years old. I started at 32.

It's hard work if you commit to it fully and you will need to give up many weekends and evenings before deadlines. And what's the point if you don't commit fully. You will need a very supportive other half and not mind missing out on days out with the new baby etc. This is a BIG decision.

I had mine half funded by work but used a career development loan. The interest is 0 until 2 months after you've finished studying. You then pay it back at 9.9% over 5 years. This is actually more expensive than many commercial loans at the moment so expect to pay it off with one of those and pay that instead. I'm going to wrap mine into the mortgage probably.

My original student loan charged interest when studying and that was back in 2000 so it's always been that way.

In reply to JuanTinco:

Thanks for all the replies, haven't had a chance to read them all yet, but will do later!

Juan

In reply to JuanTinco:

I've been to Uni twice, but that was for the sex, drugs, and rock and roll, (and climbing,) and very little to do with learning.

Going back now would just make me feel ancient and f#ck#d, (mainly because I am.)

In reply to SAF:

Appreciate the advice - the video makes interesting watching.

As above due to a time in the Military I'm less put off by the shift patterns - the attraction of not being away from home for months at a time outweighs the negatives on that front. Are you speaking as a paramedic yourself out of interest?

Thanks
Juan

In reply to all:

Thanks for the other comments, as daunting and scary as this is turning out to be it is reassuring to hear other people have done it, and even with the possibility of it not going somewhere not having to many regrets (but possibly not as much debt as it will be now)

All food for thought

Thanks
Juan