UKC

Whose swag? You decide!

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 radddogg 05 Jul 2016
Leader discovers a nut on a route. Clips it. Second follows and extracts along with the other gear.

Whose swag is it? You decide.
 jimjimjim 05 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

Hmm...who needs it most.
 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 05 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

The second's obviously. If the leader really wanted it he should have replaced it with a bit of his own kit on his way past,

Chris
 Michael Hood 05 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC: Did leader open his gob; i.e. how did second know it was already on the route.

 Michael Gordon 05 Jul 2016
In reply to jimjimjim:

Yes, I'd say who-ever doesn't have or has less of whatever has been found should probably get it. If two bits are found then decide between themselves who gets which.
 Misha 05 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:
A bit cheeky for the second to keep the nut and the draw
Post edited at 22:15
 Jimbo C 05 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:
The person who puts the effort into getting it out has first dibs. If the leader wants it, he should remove it. He's then free to put it back where it was and clip it and still have ownership rights to it tho. I have done this before as I removed swag on lead and then thought that, actually, that's the best piece for the slot and promptly put it back in
Post edited at 22:31
 Simon Caldwell 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

It belongs to the person who left it there. The police should be called to arrest whichever person stole it, their partner for aiding and abetting, and also the original owner for littering.

 johncook 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

Leader gets it. That was always the case in the past. If leader wants to donate it to second that is their choice.
cb294 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

Leader, traditionally (as it is assumed the second could not have reached the piece in questions...).

CB
 drolex 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Surely, first ascensionist, guidebook writer and land owner must be prosecuted for conspiring to cause the loss of the nut. And what about the psychological damage to the OP and other UKCers who try to solve this?
 d_b 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Chris Craggs:

Surely if the leader clips it then they have decided that it is the appropriate piece of gear for the placement. It is equivalent to removing it and then putting it back in, but more efficient.

abseil 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

> Whose swag is it? You decide.

It should be split between the leader and the second.
 d_b 06 Jul 2016
In reply to abseil:

Leader gets the nut, second gets the wire?
 stubbed 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

I think it depends if the actual owner who placed the gear was still at the bottom of the route, waiting to go up and get it (this happened to me and I don't know whether it was the leader or second who nicked it as neither would admit it).
 Rog Wilko 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Chris Craggs:

Chris, you're such a goody-two-shoes! The obvious procedure is:
1. check it's OK
2. clip it
3. give your second a good 5 minutes to get it out before "remembering" it was in situ.
4. If second gets it, keep schtum.

Done it loads of times.
 Rog Wilko 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Jimbo C:
> The person who puts the effort into getting it out has first dibs. If the leader wants it, he should remove it. He's then free to put it back where it was and clip it and still have ownership rights to it tho. I have done this before as I removed swag on lead and then thought that, actually, that's the best piece for the slot and promptly put it back in

Take that to its logical conclusion and the second acquires all the gear his leader puts in.

PS - this is a lot more fun than that referendum stuff.
Post edited at 14:13
 Hat Dude 06 Jul 2016
In reply to drolex:

> Surely, first ascensionist, guidebook writer and land owner must be prosecuted for conspiring to cause the loss of the nut. And what about the psychological damage to the OP and other UKCers who try to solve this?

I am willing to chair an inquiry into this for the knock down fee of £5m

My report will be ready in 7 years
 JoshOvki 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

That is a bit harsh assuming they were aiding, they may have got up it without pulling on any gear.
 Lloydfletch 06 Jul 2016
In reply to Jimbo C:

No no no. If leader is I a precarious position he doesn't want to be fighting with an in situ piece, especially if it's the only one in the vicinity and he's above the last bit. As someone says below, the assumption is that the second is only up there thanks to the leader.

Really depends on a) who needs it more, b) whose rack was being used (if one person's rack, it's their kit getting wear and tear so must surely be in with a shout).
 birdie num num 07 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

It's a very complex topic the etiquette of crag swag in a leader/second situation and the rights of ownership of somebody else's property.
 Bulls Crack 07 Jul 2016
In reply to Rob Powell LC&CC:

Leaders - a second normally returns the leaders gear and retains any they have shared. And the leader found it first!
OP radddogg 07 Jul 2016
In reply to Rog Wilko:

That's exactly what happened! On the way back to the car I mentioned it and the question of ownership came up. I thought finders keepers was the standard but it seems there is a varying opinion, you live and learn!
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