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Greetings,
I am an avid rock climber, for 15 years I have been dealing with periodic severe eczema to my hands. This happens 2-3 times a year and lasts roughly 6 weeks before clearing up and the skin being fine for 2 months before repeating the cycle.
The skin irritation is so severe that its painful just to touch rock never mind climb on hit. Essentially the skin peals almost to raw flesh and I believe its the result of major inflammation to the skin.
The obvious solution is just to stop climbing, but I'd rather not! I don't have to tell this crowd!
I've tried many many things. Different chalk, every cream on the planet (Bag balm, climb on etc), high strength steroid creams.
I've been to dermatologists, chinese doctors and witch doctors.
Alas the hunt continues! If there is anyone out there that suffers from something similar I'd be happy to hear your story, especially if you have resolved it!
An image of what the skin looks like can be found here if you're curious
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxeiB-ot752GaEdxNWNqTWowdVE/view?usp=shari...
Thanks to all
I am an avid rock climber, for 15 years I have been dealing with periodic severe eczema to my hands. This happens 2-3 times a year and lasts roughly 6 weeks before clearing up and the skin being fine for 2 months before repeating the cycle.
The skin irritation is so severe that its painful just to touch rock never mind climb on hit. Essentially the skin peals almost to raw flesh and I believe its the result of major inflammation to the skin.
The obvious solution is just to stop climbing, but I'd rather not! I don't have to tell this crowd!
I've tried many many things. Different chalk, every cream on the planet (Bag balm, climb on etc), high strength steroid creams.
I've been to dermatologists, chinese doctors and witch doctors.
Alas the hunt continues! If there is anyone out there that suffers from something similar I'd be happy to hear your story, especially if you have resolved it!
An image of what the skin looks like can be found here if you're curious
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxeiB-ot752GaEdxNWNqTWowdVE/view?usp=shari...
Thanks to all
In reply to BenFirth:
Give up the chalk. Britain's best classic routes were put up decades before climbers started using the psychological prop of chalk.; you can probably climb just as well without it.
Give up the chalk. Britain's best classic routes were put up decades before climbers started using the psychological prop of chalk.; you can probably climb just as well without it.
9
2
In reply to BenFirth:
I'm not a dermatologist, but that LOOKS like severe psoriasis. The description you give of it being periodic also matches this, as psoriasis is notorious for being episodic, also varying from a mild annoyance to being virtually crippling. Unfortunately if this is correct, it cannot be cured, though it can be treated with various things, including the steroids you mention. Bizarrely coaltar cream is actually a well recognised, though little understood treatment.
You've probably already been through all this stuff, but in any case :
https://www.psoriasis-association.org.uk/
Good luck with it, hope you find something that helps.
I'm not a dermatologist, but that LOOKS like severe psoriasis. The description you give of it being periodic also matches this, as psoriasis is notorious for being episodic, also varying from a mild annoyance to being virtually crippling. Unfortunately if this is correct, it cannot be cured, though it can be treated with various things, including the steroids you mention. Bizarrely coaltar cream is actually a well recognised, though little understood treatment.
You've probably already been through all this stuff, but in any case :
https://www.psoriasis-association.org.uk/
Good luck with it, hope you find something that helps.
Post edited at 08:07
4
In reply to BenFirth:
Cutting cows milk out of your diet can work surprisingly well. (provided it is eczema)
Cutting cows milk out of your diet can work surprisingly well. (provided it is eczema)
In reply to Greasy Prusiks: I used to get similar but not as bad. Try cleaning up your diet - real food only, nothing out of a packet. Up good fat content - fills you up in place of the processed stuff and stops your skin drying out, and don't put anything on your skin that you wouldn't digest, including the steroid creams, although that said I've always used chalk.
In reply to BenFirth:
Ouch!
I'm not as severely afflicted as you, but I use Aveeno cream combined with Sudocream in between episodes, which reduces the incidence significantly. I use Climbskin before climbing (as a barrier). Cutting out dairy has helped enormously, but not a total cure.
When it flares up, I use the horribly waxy but brilliant Epiderm. If it gets really horrible and itchy, I get prednisolone tablets from my GP, or if it's just painful I use oilatum junior. I avoid topical steroids - although they work, I seem to end up with cracked skin.
Good luck
Ouch!
I'm not as severely afflicted as you, but I use Aveeno cream combined with Sudocream in between episodes, which reduces the incidence significantly. I use Climbskin before climbing (as a barrier). Cutting out dairy has helped enormously, but not a total cure.
When it flares up, I use the horribly waxy but brilliant Epiderm. If it gets really horrible and itchy, I get prednisolone tablets from my GP, or if it's just painful I use oilatum junior. I avoid topical steroids - although they work, I seem to end up with cracked skin.
Good luck
Post edited at 10:47
1
In reply to BenFirth:
I avoid biological washing powder and detergents with SLS.
I use http://shop.childsfarm.com/collections/bathtime/products/caked-in-mud-hair-...
http://www.surcare.co.uk/
http://uk.ecover.com/en/washing-up/product/washing-up/lemon-aloe-vera
http://www.cetraben.co.uk/what-cetraben/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwwYK8BRC0ta6LhOPC0v0B...
I avoid biological washing powder and detergents with SLS.
I use http://shop.childsfarm.com/collections/bathtime/products/caked-in-mud-hair-...
http://www.surcare.co.uk/
http://uk.ecover.com/en/washing-up/product/washing-up/lemon-aloe-vera
http://www.cetraben.co.uk/what-cetraben/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwwYK8BRC0ta6LhOPC0v0B...
Post edited at 13:50
In reply to BenFirth:
That looks just like the bad fingers I used to get when I was teaching and used a lot of chalk on the "blackboard". The chalk used to dry up the oil in my skin and it was very painful. I changed to "dustless" chalk I dont know how it was different but my sore fingers stopped.
That looks just like the bad fingers I used to get when I was teaching and used a lot of chalk on the "blackboard". The chalk used to dry up the oil in my skin and it was very painful. I changed to "dustless" chalk I dont know how it was different but my sore fingers stopped.
In reply to BenFirth:
ouch that looks really sore, another shout out for Climbskin prior to climbing as it can act as a barrier and also reduce the chalk being absorbed into the skin.
I have also found that Szent XChalk is the most skin friendly chalk i have found, it has herb essences in it and it doesn't dry out my skin at all like other chalks.
ouch that looks really sore, another shout out for Climbskin prior to climbing as it can act as a barrier and also reduce the chalk being absorbed into the skin.
I have also found that Szent XChalk is the most skin friendly chalk i have found, it has herb essences in it and it doesn't dry out my skin at all like other chalks.
In reply to BenFirth:
Ben, I had something that looked like that, but not nearly as bad, a few years ago. It affected my palms rather than my fingers. Dermatological consultations didn't throw anything specific up, but it did coincide with a period of severe stress I was going through, and my GP did think it was my autoimmune system acting up. The causes of the stress have been resolved and while my hands are always generally a bit dry, I haven't had any recurrence of this condition.
My point is, are there any stresses or factors in your life that might bring this on? Good luck with it.
Ben, I had something that looked like that, but not nearly as bad, a few years ago. It affected my palms rather than my fingers. Dermatological consultations didn't throw anything specific up, but it did coincide with a period of severe stress I was going through, and my GP did think it was my autoimmune system acting up. The causes of the stress have been resolved and while my hands are always generally a bit dry, I haven't had any recurrence of this condition.
My point is, are there any stresses or factors in your life that might bring this on? Good luck with it.
Post edited at 19:22
In reply to BenFirth:
I had eczema on the palm of one hand for eight or ten years. Not anywhere near as bad as yours, but even so. Then it just disappeared.
The only thing that could have been related was moving to a house with a dishwasher. Even though I had been trying to minimise my hand's exposure to washing up liquid and other detergents, it didn't remove the eczema. Having and using a dishwasher did though.
Moving house may have been an inadvertent and rather costly solution but it worked.
T.
I had eczema on the palm of one hand for eight or ten years. Not anywhere near as bad as yours, but even so. Then it just disappeared.
The only thing that could have been related was moving to a house with a dishwasher. Even though I had been trying to minimise my hand's exposure to washing up liquid and other detergents, it didn't remove the eczema. Having and using a dishwasher did though.
Moving house may have been an inadvertent and rather costly solution but it worked.
T.
In reply to BenFirth: this looks like psoriasis, which is an autoimmune disease. psoriasis Can be dealt with, but it can be a tricky, and long process. The best treatment I've found is up your Vit D intake with supplements, and when your hands gets bad, cover them in a thick Vaseline type cream. You can buy a Vit D enriched petroleum based cream to treat psoriasis,
But it's quite expensive! Once you have well covered your hands put on surgical gloves then go to bed, and leave it in overnight. This is really uncomfortable! But works a treat! I've been doing this for a couple of years now, and I have had a lot of success. I'd do this for 4
Nights then give yourself a break.
My psoriasis is brought on by stress, could that be your trigger?
Hope this helps.
But it's quite expensive! Once you have well covered your hands put on surgical gloves then go to bed, and leave it in overnight. This is really uncomfortable! But works a treat! I've been doing this for a couple of years now, and I have had a lot of success. I'd do this for 4
Nights then give yourself a break.
My psoriasis is brought on by stress, could that be your trigger?
Hope this helps.
In reply to BenFirth:
Lots of over reaction on this thread. I sometimes get exactly the same as in your picture. caused by drying agent in Chalk. Don't bother with the fancy balms, just regular application of E45 hand cream from your local super market, usually sorts it in a week.
Lots of over reaction on this thread. I sometimes get exactly the same as in your picture. caused by drying agent in Chalk. Don't bother with the fancy balms, just regular application of E45 hand cream from your local super market, usually sorts it in a week.
4
In reply to BenFirth:
Thank you all for your responses! This is the best info I've had for some time and am already moving ahead on some of the options. This could very well be psoriasis and stress related. I will be sure to let this thread know how things progress. Keep the comments coming if you have them!
Thank you all for your responses! This is the best info I've had for some time and am already moving ahead on some of the options. This could very well be psoriasis and stress related. I will be sure to let this thread know how things progress. Keep the comments coming if you have them!
In reply to BenFirth:
Another vote for looking at your diet. My psoriasis improved when I cut out wheat. I've been following a keto diet lately and that also seems to be beneficial for my skin. I try to avoid using steroid cream because it thins the skin and only offers a temporary fix so diet and copious quantities of Hydromol ointment are my friends.
You have my sympathy anyway, it's an unpleasant and frustrating condition that can have a real impact on quality of life and happiness whilst being so minor I always feel a bit bad whinging about it!
Another vote for looking at your diet. My psoriasis improved when I cut out wheat. I've been following a keto diet lately and that also seems to be beneficial for my skin. I try to avoid using steroid cream because it thins the skin and only offers a temporary fix so diet and copious quantities of Hydromol ointment are my friends.
You have my sympathy anyway, it's an unpleasant and frustrating condition that can have a real impact on quality of life and happiness whilst being so minor I always feel a bit bad whinging about it!
In reply to Zoro:
Actually Psoriasis is NOT an autoimmune disease, it is a problem of inappropriate and unusually rapid, but normally localised, skin-cell replication.
This is an important distinction because the circumstances and treatment of the 2 conditions are quite different.
> this looks like psoriasis, which is an autoimmune disease.
Actually Psoriasis is NOT an autoimmune disease, it is a problem of inappropriate and unusually rapid, but normally localised, skin-cell replication.
This is an important distinction because the circumstances and treatment of the 2 conditions are quite different.
In reply to BenFirth:
About 25 years ago I, for whatever reason, developed really bad eczema on my hands and fingers, much worse than yours (from that photo), the skin was splitting and weeping. For about 2 years I went to my Doctor, got referred to the skin clinic, had every type of cream, hydro cortisone creams, steroid creams etc etc and nothing made any difference. In desperation I went to a Homeopath, a week later the remedy arrived in the post, a tiny pill. I took it and within 6 weeks my eczema had gone completely. Lots of people have dismissed this as fluke, placebo, coincidence etc , however the evidence is that Homeopathy succeeded where traditional treatment had failed.....
About 25 years ago I, for whatever reason, developed really bad eczema on my hands and fingers, much worse than yours (from that photo), the skin was splitting and weeping. For about 2 years I went to my Doctor, got referred to the skin clinic, had every type of cream, hydro cortisone creams, steroid creams etc etc and nothing made any difference. In desperation I went to a Homeopath, a week later the remedy arrived in the post, a tiny pill. I took it and within 6 weeks my eczema had gone completely. Lots of people have dismissed this as fluke, placebo, coincidence etc , however the evidence is that Homeopathy succeeded where traditional treatment had failed.....
4
In reply to BenFirth:
As I wrote above, give up using talc. You're putting an industrial drying agent, magnesium carbonate, on your skin and you're surprised when the skin drieds up, cracks and becomes infected?
As a footnote, shea butter has an almost miraculous effect on dry sore skin. Get a tub and rub it on; you'll be amazed.
As I wrote above, give up using talc. You're putting an industrial drying agent, magnesium carbonate, on your skin and you're surprised when the skin drieds up, cracks and becomes infected?
As a footnote, shea butter has an almost miraculous effect on dry sore skin. Get a tub and rub it on; you'll be amazed.
Post edited at 08:38
In reply to Simon4:
Actually psoriasis is an autoimmune disorder and there are links with various other medical problems such as Crohn's, Dupeytren's, diabetes etc. As a sufferer I seem to get sent for blood tests every time I see a medical professional to rule out more serious underlying issues that are all more likely as a result of the psoriasis.
https://www.psoriasis.org/about-psoriasis
Actually psoriasis is an autoimmune disorder and there are links with various other medical problems such as Crohn's, Dupeytren's, diabetes etc. As a sufferer I seem to get sent for blood tests every time I see a medical professional to rule out more serious underlying issues that are all more likely as a result of the psoriasis.
https://www.psoriasis.org/about-psoriasis
In reply to climbingpixie:
It would seem you are right and it has at least some auto-immune component.
I was under the clear impression that it was a defect of skin-cell division regulation (which is also involved), rather than an immune or auto-immune effect (I also get it, but am fortunate in being on the "annoying nuisance" end of the scale, not the "makes life almost intolerable" end).
Let us hope this discussion has been of some help to the OP.
It would seem you are right and it has at least some auto-immune component.
I was under the clear impression that it was a defect of skin-cell division regulation (which is also involved), rather than an immune or auto-immune effect (I also get it, but am fortunate in being on the "annoying nuisance" end of the scale, not the "makes life almost intolerable" end).
Let us hope this discussion has been of some help to the OP.
In reply to BenFirth:
Does't look like psoriasis. Have you discussed this with a consultant dermatologist? If you have do they know you regularly smother your hands in chalk? I would stop using chalk immediately. I would also avoid climbing indoors when your skin is flaring. Unfortunately the best therapy is likely to be with lots of emollient +/- steroid which isn't the best for friction.
Does't look like psoriasis. Have you discussed this with a consultant dermatologist? If you have do they know you regularly smother your hands in chalk? I would stop using chalk immediately. I would also avoid climbing indoors when your skin is flaring. Unfortunately the best therapy is likely to be with lots of emollient +/- steroid which isn't the best for friction.
In reply to BenFirth:
Hi Ben,
I have a very similar thing, and get it on a similar basis - 2/3 times a year for a month or so at a time. In fact, it's flaring up quite badly at the moment, as it seems to most summers - I guess due to a mixture of climbing quite a bit and hot weather. For me it feels worse at times of stress, but that's just my own theorising. It used to get sore (bleeding at folds of digits) but thankfully isn't often painful anymore and has calmed down a lot in recent years as I've got a bit older.
The main things for me are trying to ensure my hands don't stay wet or warm for long spells (bath, gloves etc), wash any chalk off quickly after climbing (if you use it at all), and use lots and lots of Epaderm. I'm sure other creams work too, but I haven't personally found a better one. Dermol was okay, but I prefer the former. I sometimes even bring it to the crag so you can put it on the second you stop before the skin dries out, and definitely bring it away on long trips. If you live in Scotland, you'll get it for free on repeat prescription and it can be used as a soap substitute. Maybe also try thinking about how to cut down stress with pilates, mindfulness, workplace changes?
I've never tried diet changes, but think I eat fairly carefully already. Maybe I should try cutting back on milk a bit.
I've had this on and off for a decade or so, and it is gradually, slowly improving, so my advice would be to keep trying everything but try not to worry too much if nothing is helping (I guess that's easier said than done if painful or making climbing unenjoyable) as eventually it may just go away on it's own due to changes you don't even realise you're making. For example, mine's improved since I recently changed jobs and swapped a tiring, stressful commute for a nice cycle to/from work.
Anyway, good luck.
D.
Hi Ben,
I have a very similar thing, and get it on a similar basis - 2/3 times a year for a month or so at a time. In fact, it's flaring up quite badly at the moment, as it seems to most summers - I guess due to a mixture of climbing quite a bit and hot weather. For me it feels worse at times of stress, but that's just my own theorising. It used to get sore (bleeding at folds of digits) but thankfully isn't often painful anymore and has calmed down a lot in recent years as I've got a bit older.
The main things for me are trying to ensure my hands don't stay wet or warm for long spells (bath, gloves etc), wash any chalk off quickly after climbing (if you use it at all), and use lots and lots of Epaderm. I'm sure other creams work too, but I haven't personally found a better one. Dermol was okay, but I prefer the former. I sometimes even bring it to the crag so you can put it on the second you stop before the skin dries out, and definitely bring it away on long trips. If you live in Scotland, you'll get it for free on repeat prescription and it can be used as a soap substitute. Maybe also try thinking about how to cut down stress with pilates, mindfulness, workplace changes?
I've never tried diet changes, but think I eat fairly carefully already. Maybe I should try cutting back on milk a bit.
I've had this on and off for a decade or so, and it is gradually, slowly improving, so my advice would be to keep trying everything but try not to worry too much if nothing is helping (I guess that's easier said than done if painful or making climbing unenjoyable) as eventually it may just go away on it's own due to changes you don't even realise you're making. For example, mine's improved since I recently changed jobs and swapped a tiring, stressful commute for a nice cycle to/from work.
Anyway, good luck.
D.
Post edited at 15:56
In reply to BenFirth:
Another vote for a Vit D boost: Last summer my bloods showed a 24 "somethings" when it needs to be much higher (75 iirc), after a few months taking 1000 mcg (Or whatever the unit is...) the classic elbow patches I had started to heal with just Dovonex which is a Vit D derivative cream. I've had a few months now without any visible patches showing.
I do avoid lactose and cheap bread, so that might help although it's not something I can prove.
Another vote for a Vit D boost: Last summer my bloods showed a 24 "somethings" when it needs to be much higher (75 iirc), after a few months taking 1000 mcg (Or whatever the unit is...) the classic elbow patches I had started to heal with just Dovonex which is a Vit D derivative cream. I've had a few months now without any visible patches showing.
I do avoid lactose and cheap bread, so that might help although it's not something I can prove.
Post edited at 22:56
In reply to Tree:
Where did you get the Dovonex? I was under the impression that the manufacturers had ceased making it.
Where did you get the Dovonex? I was under the impression that the manufacturers had ceased making it.
In reply to BenFirth:
It was an old tube I've had for a couple of years (Actually out of date...).
I didn't realise it was out of use, that seems to happen every time I find something good!
Edit: After a quick search, it seems the cream was discontinued, what I have is termed an ointment and is greasy. I can confirm the greasiness and used to put bandages over it as I used to get it everywhere.
It was an old tube I've had for a couple of years (Actually out of date...).
I didn't realise it was out of use, that seems to happen every time I find something good!
Edit: After a quick search, it seems the cream was discontinued, what I have is termed an ointment and is greasy. I can confirm the greasiness and used to put bandages over it as I used to get it everywhere.
Post edited at 19:08
In reply to BenFirth:
I used to suffer badly with my hands with contact dermatitis and they were in a right mess, blistered, cracking and bleeding! I changed my chalk and it cleared up loads. I used to use Super Chalk which I think had a drying agent in it, now I just use normal chalk. I also regularly moisturise my hands, I make sure I do it religiously after climbing and after washing them etc. For me, Neutrogena Norwegian Formula seems to work the best and on the recommendation of someone I got some coconut oil and rub that into my hands last thing at night. Touch wood I haven't suffered with it since!
I used to suffer badly with my hands with contact dermatitis and they were in a right mess, blistered, cracking and bleeding! I changed my chalk and it cleared up loads. I used to use Super Chalk which I think had a drying agent in it, now I just use normal chalk. I also regularly moisturise my hands, I make sure I do it religiously after climbing and after washing them etc. For me, Neutrogena Norwegian Formula seems to work the best and on the recommendation of someone I got some coconut oil and rub that into my hands last thing at night. Touch wood I haven't suffered with it since!
Post edited at 11:05
In reply to BenFirth:
I am not a professional, but one of my friends had the same problem. You might be allergic to something which you need to identify. Consult a dermatologist.
I am not a professional, but one of my friends had the same problem. You might be allergic to something which you need to identify. Consult a dermatologist.
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