UKC

...the most bombproof and best is still a Salewa Stitch Plate.

And, when it comes to runners, the most bombproof and best is still a perfectly seated MOAC Original.

Simples! - which of course is why they're the best.

In reply to Goucho:


whats wrong with a body belay, no runners and don't fall principle?

In reply to Pids:


Seriously? Soloing is the purest way to climb, full stop.

In reply to Goucho:

you,re just trying to wind people up. MOAC; John Brailsford father of Team Sky boss Dave claimed to have invented it !

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Naked soloing, so you don't benefit from any artificial aids. In winter.

In reply to rocksol:


For once I'm not Phil.

You probably remember when Tom Proctor experimented by machining a scoop/groove in the front and back faces of a MOAC to increase its versatility. IIRC didn't he also experiment how to get a smaller nut on a thicker wire by use of some carefully targeted blows with a hammer?

Not just stronger than Samson, but very clever too.

In reply to Goucho:

I didn't know ponsy made belay devices.

In reply to Big Ger:
Ponzi belay devices rely on a steady stream of new belayers turning up to hold the rope, and everyone ends up hitting the ground except the original climber who is usually nowhere to be seen.

In reply to Goucho:
This just reminded me of 'Billy Whizz & Hydraulic Man' in Crags magazine,

In reply to davidbeynon:

Posies belay devices fit in your pocket, but can lead to falling down.

In reply to Goucho:




Correct about the Sticht plate, unless you need a guide mode. We have been victims of 'marketing'; I mean, just how many belay plates are there on the market today? How many represent an improvement on the Sticht Plate when in use [the spring makes rope handling a breeze but does of course get snagged on stuff]

In reply to top cat:

Sticht Plate got the belaying aspect nailed, but i think when you throw abseiling into the mix the tubular ATC style refinement has it beaten.

There hasn't been a significant advance on that generation of plate though.

In reply to top cat:


But how many people bought a new belay plate just because it's shiny and new, or was it because they were new to climbing, lost there old one, dropped there old one down the route and binned it, or binned it due to significant wear?

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

I have a reveso 4 because its predecessor got dropped off the top of the dewerstone.

In reply to davidbeynon:


I bought an ATC when I started climbing, bought a guide plate after using one and wanting the guide function for multi-pitch (worth the money to me), bought a second guide when I lost that one, bought a Gri-Gri 2 for sport climbing after using one (again, well worth the money when somebody's red-pointing).

In reply to top cat:

Not sure quite why people have a problem with choice and varying degrees of innovation. But to answer your question, why are there so many belay plates on the market? Because it is pretty much the single highest selling item there is. Every climber needs at least one. Same with HMS crabs. Even indoor noobs. And as there are lots of climbing companies, every body wants some of that pie, simples.

In reply to Goucho:

Back in the late 60's/early70's I found a small rectangular piece of aluminium with a rectangular hole cut in the middle in the Alps. Many years later, after seeing commercial ones, I concluded that it was a home made belay device. It' still in the bottom of a drawer somewhere around the house or garage.

Al

In reply to beardy mike:

But you only need one belay plate. Whereas many feel they could do with c30 nuts, or 10+ cams, or 12 quickdraws etc... It's one of the few climbing items (harness and nut key would be others) I think I've only got one of!

In reply to top cat:


Like most of my generation, I started with a waist belay, and sling and shoulder abseil technique. Then came the decenduer (figure of 8) and we all immediately upgraded to it - it was a revelation for both belaying and especially abbing.
Then came the stitch plate, which was even better so we upgraded, and then the spring loaded version which was better again, and so we upgraded again.
I've been using one ever since, from single and multi-pitch, to alpine and big walls etc etc, in fair weather and utterly foul - it still works fine even on iced up ropes.
If I felt any of those that followed were any better, I'd have upgraded, but IMHO they aren't.
Just as well I'm a gear horder and I've still got 3 left

In reply to Goucho:

DMM Bug - just a modern version of the same design

In reply to Goucho:

Lame troll.

In reply to Goucho:
Have a look at the Alex Honnold video currently featured. At 0'48" you can see what Johnny Dawes uses to belay!

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

pebbles with a bit of frayed shoe lace,perfectly acceptable.

In reply to Michael Gordon: Not if you have like many people got a fat single rope and skinny doubles. A Salewa sticht plate would be no use at all on modern skinny doubles. And likewise, if you wanted to give a reasonably dynamic belay whilst sport climbing, a skinny specific belay plate is not much use either. Right tool for the job and all that. You might only have one belay plate but that doesn't mean that's the best solution. As for nut sales and cam sales, think about how many people climb versus how many lead climb on trad, world wide. It's belay plates and HMS, then low end draws, the high end draws, and right at the bottom of the pile all the other gear...

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Beat me to it! I saw that yesterday and then this thread appeared.

They really are the same as "bug" type devices though, but not as slick. (No where near).

Andy

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

I still use one of those on my (increasingly infrequent) trad days. As my small brain struggles with the general complexity of trad climbing I like the total simplicity of the thing.

In reply to Goucho:



Trouble is, if you don't upgrade then it's unlikely that you've used the newer devices often enough to make a fair judgement. "I like what I'm used to" is fair enough, but one can't necessarily proceed immediately to "this is best".

Having used Sticht plates for many years, and subsequently having used ATC-type devices for just as long, I much prefer the latter, FWIW. Smoother belaying with a variety of rope widths (including skinny doubles), smoother abseil (usually the non-toothed side) ... and no spring getting tangled up with wires tapes, etc. in the rucksack.

Having said that, I now almost always use a GriGri for single pitch sport, and increasingly for short trad routes, too. Another device you have to use quite a bit before you can fairly judge it, by the way.

In reply to Goucho:
I really like sprung sticht plates too, but I find myself thinking a more modern device with multiple uses is probably worth investigating, one doesn't know what else is out there until one has, and probably can't say they're definitely not better for some uses.

In reply to davidbeynon:


I have a MegaJul because my Reverso 4 got dropped in the sea at Baggy...

In reply to bpmclimb:

Agreed, on any day of the week a grigri takes some beating on a single rope.

In reply to Goucho:

ATC guide, absails, using two ropes,guiding
Click up, single rope routes

In reply to Goucho:

I still have the original ATC I bought when I first started climbing and the Reverso 3 that I bought for multi-pitch. I have never needed anything else and, after living on the Continent for a year and learning how much nicer a munter-hitch is compared to a guide-mode device, I don't even think I need the Reverso anymore.

I did borrow a GriGri off a mate, recently, when a volunteer was needed to prussik for some stuck gear. Prussik+GriGri beats the pants off two prussiks and none of us had a Jumar on us. Can't say I really like belaying or abseiling with them.