UKC

Is it ok to clip the middle of a daisy chain to a descending device for abseiling? It's something I've been doing a bit recently, instead of using a separate cow's tail our rap sling, just because it's there anyway. I was just asking because I haven't really seen anyone else doing it at the crag. Is there any reason not to?

If it makes any difference, it's a Metoleus PAS and a Petzel Reverso. I'm also using the bent-gate biner on the end of the tether for tram-lining where necessary, although it usually isn't.

In reply to 19G:


Yeah, it's fine with a metolius PAS 22, as it looks like every loop is fully rated (http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/pas_personal_anchor_system.html ). It's probably a bad idea with some daisy chains (e.g. this kind http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en_ES/big-wall-climbing/nylon-daisy-chain-... )

In reply to 19G:
on a pas style (anchor chains as the yanks seem to call em) no problem at all.

on a normal daisy it'd be ok as well (not that i would/do) as each loop is rated to carry body weight
(depends on model but somewhere in excess of 200 Kg - pretty heavy for a person) and of course the
whole sling is rated to 22Kn so you'd rip through to that (would be an 'interesting' experience) but

DO NOT CLIP ADJACENT LOOPS see http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/qc-lab-daisy-chain-dangers-en-glbl.html

daisy chains just are not very popular in the UK (they are designed for aid)
not sure what you mean by tram lining ? clipping onto one of the ropes to separate them ?

In reply to humptydumpty:

Thanks Humptydumpty - I thought it was OK, just a bit worried that I hadn't seen anyone else do it. I don't like being 'creative' with safety practices Thanks very much for your help.

19G

In reply to lithos:

Thank you Lithos, that's good to know.

I used to use a regular daisy chain, but I've switched to PAS recently, and it was then that I started using it as a rap sling.

I'm using it mostly for gear hanging, and security at anchors for multi-pitch routes. I seem to do a fair bit more mid-pitch faffing than most people I see at the crag, and a lot of my ascents aren't what you'd call in perfect style, not that it bothers me much.

Thanks again for the reassurance - nice to know I'm not doing anything silly.

19G

In reply to lithos:
(Regarding your question: I'm talking about abseiling down a pitch to clean the gear out. If the pitch zig-zags, it is sometimes difficult to stay near the lead line on the way down. 'Tram-lining' means attaching one end of a quickdraw to the lead line, and the other to the belay loop of your harness, to guide your decent. I've found that simply clipping the existing bent-gate biner on the end of the PAS to the lead line seems to work too, although I've not tested in on any pronounced zig-zags or traversals yet.)

In reply to 19G:
ok i get you, not heard it called that (or anything !) important/useful on over hanging routes

and clipping the end would make sense as long as it doesn't interfere with your ab device in any way, but it
may pull the device and create a strange angle when taut - id need to see what happens in a controlled
environment (ie not 50ft off the deck!)