UKC

I did my first top-rope solo this weekend using the following set-up:

- 'Master'clove hitch on HMS carabiners back to back through tie-in point of harness.
- backup clove hitch on carabiner clipped to belay loop.
- fig-8 into harness as normal

As expected soloing with knots was slow and clunky (although safe) and required at least one free hand to pull through slack and tie. Despite the limitations I want to get used to this system and do rope solo leads before investing in a gri-gri/eddy/silent partner etc.

One of the things that made adjusting the knots slower was the fact my tie-in point was rammed full (2x krabs, belay loop and fig 8 rope knot). To reduce this clutter I was thinking of either attaching the master krabs to belay loop or just use one auto-locking krab/mallion for master knot.

It would also have been more comfortable to have my backup clove hitch on a krab clipped around waistbelt and through my first gear loop. The loop is 0kn rated but this would keep backup away from master.

Any advice on whether these ideas are safe would be helpful, thanks

In reply to maxsmith:
A few tips,

Get a grigri and a ropeman to hold tension of brake rope away from grigri

Learn one handed clove hitches, youtube.com/watch?v=fmFhbwajAqo&

Have everything on screwgates, preferably Oval. I carry 6 when I do.

Realise that, gear still needs to be extended solo or it will pull as a normal lead in the event of a fall.

Don't dream of getting on anything hard, and if you do- remember that "there are no prizes for falling off" so pull on gear, do what ever you have to do, to not fall.

When you set your anchors, 2/3 good bits of pro, bring everything to a master point (upside down) and have a downward piece with a prussik on the lead rope to hold the belay together (pulled upward) also clip the lead rope through another quickdraw.

Every piece of gear you own is expendable, you aren't.
Take care

In reply to zimpara:

Hi, as above I don't want to use grigri yet, I can already do one handed clove hitches, I have everything on screwgates, I can make multi-directional anchors etc.

I'm really after advice about rope soloing with knots (specific questions are above).

In reply to maxsmith:
Ok, to answer your questions, I use the belay loop.

My back up knot goes on a gear loop with a grigri. (Note* I don't use a backup knot if i use a ropeman on grigri)

If I was clovehitch soloing, (which I have done) I did not, have a specific back up. But rather had 5-6 loops of slack on clove hitches on harness. Swapping over to belay loop and then removing the current hitch to introduce slack.

You can add a short cows tail from the belay loop, to a gear loop and duct tape it on., and insure all the krabs/backups go through it.

In reply to zimpara:

thanks, are your gear loops rated or are you just hoping the force on any backup knot/gri-gri would be low? I'd prefer to clip krab around waist belt and through gear loop than run a cows tail across.

In reply to maxsmith:
You can get a harness with rated gear loops. More expensive than a grigri though. I made a thread about them a while back

The back up knot on a grigri for me* is only there to stop rope running through (in the event the grigri does not engage) and not to hold me in the event of a karabiner failure on the grigri.

In reply to maxsmith:

I've never lead rope solo'd but done plenty top-roping with mini traxions but I think no matter what you are doing, here's a good piece of advice:

Don't backup yourself so much that you actually make it more dangerous for yourself because everything is too complex and the 'backups' end up interfering with each other. When I was researching the various methods for TR soloing I got the feeling that basically all of the accidents came from people making the system so 'safe' it was in-fact completely unsafe. Hope that makes sense

In reply to maxsmith:

I can't really picture how this will work. Are the knots only there to keep you off the deck, i.e. you have to re-tie them every couple of metres? If so it sounds like a real pest and would require the ground to be quite easy in order to be able to stay on while re-adjusting them, also dangerous if you don't manage the latter and decide to keep going! If planning on getting more into top-rope soloing I would just buy a shunt.

In reply to maxsmith:

I think the system Zimpara is talking about is called the Yosemite rope solo. If so that's how I started out and it works pretty well if you take the right considerations. There is a good article somewhere online about it, maybe Andy Kirkpatrick, I can't remember. After a while, I found that with all the extra weight and faff it seems safer to just free solo and be cautious!

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Hi Michael, yes I retied the knots every few metres, and yes it was really slow going and would be impossible on higher grade routes. I still want to learn how to lead rope solo with knots so I can make a more informed decision on whether to buy shunt/gri gri/eddy or something specifically designed for soloing.

In reply to maxsmith:

Whenever I've used a rope solo set-up I've used a device of one sort or another to make life easier (shunt, handled jammer, grigri). I have one but don't like minitraxion in this role, it's easy to use but far too hard to see if the cam has accidentally locked open.

I use a separate strand of back up rope, just a knot at a height that will keep me off the deck then retied occasionally to keep me off ledges or at hands-off positions. The back up rope is also the easy escape, you can transfer to it and ab down trivially.

OP: If you're dead set on using knots I'd keep the krabs on the belay loop, any other attachment on your harness loads it uncomfortably/unusually. Also I'd ditch the back to back HMS but use a free locking (so it can't snag stuff) krab as a handle to slacken the clove hitch and pull through slack (quick search finds no pictures but it basically does the job your fingers do in loosening the hitch).

Solo leading seems like a waste of time to me except where required to speed up a block lead conventional ascent or when aiding.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

Thanks, I've seen the krab handle technique before, I'll give it a try. What do you mean by 'free locking krab'?

In reply to maxsmith:

Sorry, I thought you were leading. But you're toproping.
Grigri I've found to be my choice for that too. Easier descent. Clip a ropeman on the brake strand to remove the need for backup knots.

In reply to maxsmith:

You guessed right: a locking krab, free of the belay loop used as a handle to loosen the hitch and pull in slack. Sorry, I wasn't very clear there.
jk

In reply to jkarran:

Ahh, I understand now. I've seen a pic before at http://multipitchclimbing.com/ chapter 12 'running clove hitch'. Is there a specific part of the hitch where I should insert the krab?

In reply to maxsmith:


Probably Truth told I've not done it in well over a decade and I can't remember. I think it goes through the loop that crosses over the two wrapped strands but do double check! A quick experiment should sort you out.
jk

In reply to maxsmith:

okay will do, thanks

In reply to maxsmith:

Someone above asked for the Andy Kirkpatrick article on roped soloing: http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/rope_soloing_101_part_1

In reply to jkarran:


Is there a danger of this krab snagging on something?

In reply to humptydumpty:


Yes, that's why a locking crab would be best that way it can't easily clip/hook onto anything inadvertently slackening the hitch while you climb.

Either way, you should have a redundant back up in place.
jk

In reply to jkarran:


What would be your redundant backup? Another clove hitch without a krab?

In reply to humptydumpty:

Yes. One that you can tie another clovehitch and simply remove the current back up.

In reply to humptydumpty:

That'd work but it's more hassle than I've ever bothered with (bearing in mind clove hitches in general are too much hassle for me, I can't do them one handed and for the primary device I use a jammer or grigri).

For a back-up I use fig8/overhand tied in a separate strand at a height I can climb to with minimal risk but from which I won't deck on stretch should my primary device fail. Clip it with a locking krab as you pass it, tie another and clip that as needed to protect ledges etc.
jk