This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
A little bit of light hearted polling:
LIKE my post if you agree with the statement that "mobile phones have made the world a better place"
DISLIKE my post if you disagree with the statement that "mobile phones have made the world a better place"
Define "the world a better place" any which way you want and feel free to post thoughts on the topic below.
A few things to get the ball rolling:
Increase/decrease in social interaction, use of resources (rare earth metals), 24/7 availability/ability to work much more flexibly, medical applications for remote/under resourced communities, health risks...and on and on.
I appreciate it's an impossible question without a clearly defined scope but I'm still interested in the result! Oh and how can those who never knew the world before mobiles vote? Too late pressing submit message...
LIKE my post if you agree with the statement that "mobile phones have made the world a better place"
DISLIKE my post if you disagree with the statement that "mobile phones have made the world a better place"
Define "the world a better place" any which way you want and feel free to post thoughts on the topic below.
A few things to get the ball rolling:
Increase/decrease in social interaction, use of resources (rare earth metals), 24/7 availability/ability to work much more flexibly, medical applications for remote/under resourced communities, health risks...and on and on.
I appreciate it's an impossible question without a clearly defined scope but I'm still interested in the result! Oh and how can those who never knew the world before mobiles vote? Too late pressing submit message...
58
41
In reply to Bobling:
Better.
A cell tower brings bring communication (and banking) to third world populated areas with no mains electricity or landlines.
Being contactable is good if you have sick relative etc.
Pocket communicator, navigator (GPS, maps) and information (internet) were just fantasy gadgets in James Bond or Star Trek.
Better.
A cell tower brings bring communication (and banking) to third world populated areas with no mains electricity or landlines.
Being contactable is good if you have sick relative etc.
Pocket communicator, navigator (GPS, maps) and information (internet) were just fantasy gadgets in James Bond or Star Trek.
3
In reply to Bobling:
Brilliant device, opens communication up to hundreds of millions, gives us a world of information at our finger tips. It can't really be blamed for Pokemon Go, Candy Crush and UKC!
Brilliant device, opens communication up to hundreds of millions, gives us a world of information at our finger tips. It can't really be blamed for Pokemon Go, Candy Crush and UKC!
4
In reply to Bobling:
Any technology which improves communication between people has to be a force for good, in balance. Of course, like everything, there are disadvantages – but I'm convinced the world is a better place now due to mobile devices.
Any technology which improves communication between people has to be a force for good, in balance. Of course, like everything, there are disadvantages – but I'm convinced the world is a better place now due to mobile devices.
2
In reply to Only a hill:
Can't argue that mobiles save lives, provide communication with remote communities etc.
But no-one is ever properly alone and self reliant any more.
Can't argue that mobiles save lives, provide communication with remote communities etc.
But no-one is ever properly alone and self reliant any more.
2
2
In reply to Bobling:
I still occasionally stare at my phone in amazement at the amount of power in such a small device, a similarly powered pc tower when I was younger would have cost a fortune . Definitely a better place vote for me, you can always switch it off. We all walk around with pretty much all the knowledge that's ever existed in our pockets which is quite amazing.
I still occasionally stare at my phone in amazement at the amount of power in such a small device, a similarly powered pc tower when I was younger would have cost a fortune . Definitely a better place vote for me, you can always switch it off. We all walk around with pretty much all the knowledge that's ever existed in our pockets which is quite amazing.
5
1
In reply to Bobling:
I hate them with a passion and look forward to the day I can turn mine off for good.
Unfortunately that won't be until I retire in 20 to 30 years time.
Due to instant communication customers expectations have changed and you are e pelted to be available to them 24/7.
Out on site I can spend half the day on my work and half the day fielding calls from customer's.
Holiday is no respite either, a recent week in Wales was marred by at least 1 hour per day on the phone and the obligatory emails on the smart phone whenever I had a good enough signal.
As well as this, everywhere you look are people walking, sitting or driving like mindless zombies whilst staring at a screen.
I am most definitely not a fan.
I hate them with a passion and look forward to the day I can turn mine off for good.
Unfortunately that won't be until I retire in 20 to 30 years time.
Due to instant communication customers expectations have changed and you are e pelted to be available to them 24/7.
Out on site I can spend half the day on my work and half the day fielding calls from customer's.
Holiday is no respite either, a recent week in Wales was marred by at least 1 hour per day on the phone and the obligatory emails on the smart phone whenever I had a good enough signal.
As well as this, everywhere you look are people walking, sitting or driving like mindless zombies whilst staring at a screen.
I am most definitely not a fan.
11
1
In reply to Bobling:
Have they made the world better ? of course they have. They have enable communication for vast swathes of the world's population and have fuelled real technology growth (processing, silicon processes, batteries etc) like no other technology I can think of.
Being on 'instant call' is a first world problem that just needs the etiquette to evolve in order to deal with it.
Have they made the world better ? of course they have. They have enable communication for vast swathes of the world's population and have fuelled real technology growth (processing, silicon processes, batteries etc) like no other technology I can think of.
Being on 'instant call' is a first world problem that just needs the etiquette to evolve in order to deal with it.
7
In reply to colinakmc:
ha! your network evidently has wider coverage than mine. plenty of hill days out with no signal whatsoever.
ha! your network evidently has wider coverage than mine. plenty of hill days out with no signal whatsoever.
1
In reply to Bobling:
It's the knowledge sharing that I like, that is priceless.
I don't use mine much as a phone, but as a camera, video player, music player, boat navigator, book, map, calendar, radio,information source, shop and messaging machine. It's really a personal computer, but that label had gone.
It's the knowledge sharing that I like, that is priceless.
I don't use mine much as a phone, but as a camera, video player, music player, boat navigator, book, map, calendar, radio,information source, shop and messaging machine. It's really a personal computer, but that label had gone.
Post edited at 09:19
1
8
In reply to Dax H:
Perhapse that says more about your dedication to your business? I turn my phone off, possibly turn it on to check in back home to let people know I am still alive, but never check emails (especially work emails).
> Holiday is no respite either, a recent week in Wales was marred by at least 1 hour per day on the phone and the obligatory emails on the smart phone whenever I had a good enough signal.
Perhapse that says more about your dedication to your business? I turn my phone off, possibly turn it on to check in back home to let people know I am still alive, but never check emails (especially work emails).
2
In reply to Dax H:
It seems unwise to blame a device for the way that you have chosen to structure your business and your own failure to delegate effectively in order to ensure that you get a peaceful holiday.
> Holiday is no respite either, a recent week in Wales was marred by at least 1 hour per day on the phone and the obligatory emails on the smart phone whenever I had a good enough signal.
It seems unwise to blame a device for the way that you have chosen to structure your business and your own failure to delegate effectively in order to ensure that you get a peaceful holiday.
8
1
In reply to Dax H:
>.
No sympathy, mate ! Perhaps you're just reaping the rewards of your over-blown idea of your professional status and worth therein.
What a blessing it would be for all concerned to return to the days of 9 till 5 with all evenings and week-ends free to do more interesting things ( not that all jobs are boring and routine, but probably a good 90% of them).
>.
> Holiday is no respite either, a recent week in Wales was marred by at least 1 hour per day on the phone and the obligatory emails on the smart phone whenever I had a good enough signal.
No sympathy, mate ! Perhaps you're just reaping the rewards of your over-blown idea of your professional status and worth therein.
What a blessing it would be for all concerned to return to the days of 9 till 5 with all evenings and week-ends free to do more interesting things ( not that all jobs are boring and routine, but probably a good 90% of them).
6
In reply to Bobling:
I'm unsure. I think that there are many problems that need to be acknowledged with our current setup:
- Disposal, and manufacturing waste. Mobile phones are extremely toxic to produce, and to dispose of. We don't see this problem in the Western world, because we've offshored it to Bangladesh and such places, where people work in conditions similar to 19th century Europe to recover tiny amounts of valuable metals in mobile phones. Similarly we've offshored the toxic metal extraction techniques mostly to China, and their citizens are suffering the costs of heavy metal poisoning so most of us can play games or read twaddle. Planned obsolescence, and a stoked desire to get "more", "new", "now" has exacerbated the first problem massively.
- Government surveillance. Many people have forgotten that it was leaked that agencies such as GCHQ and the CIA already have the ability to seamlessly remote control a target's mobile phone, and to implant monitoring software. The effects of this are unlikely to be known at this early stage, but given the tendencies of people like Theresa May - could lead to a drastically more totalitarian state than we have ever had. It would be easier than ever before to subvert groups that are not sympathetic to the government, and just because it has not yet happened does not make it any less worrisome.
Now for positives:
- Smart phones have allowed the 3rd world to enter the internet age. This is a largely positive benefit, as increased communication is very important for the world to improve.
I'm unsure. I think that there are many problems that need to be acknowledged with our current setup:
- Disposal, and manufacturing waste. Mobile phones are extremely toxic to produce, and to dispose of. We don't see this problem in the Western world, because we've offshored it to Bangladesh and such places, where people work in conditions similar to 19th century Europe to recover tiny amounts of valuable metals in mobile phones. Similarly we've offshored the toxic metal extraction techniques mostly to China, and their citizens are suffering the costs of heavy metal poisoning so most of us can play games or read twaddle. Planned obsolescence, and a stoked desire to get "more", "new", "now" has exacerbated the first problem massively.
- Government surveillance. Many people have forgotten that it was leaked that agencies such as GCHQ and the CIA already have the ability to seamlessly remote control a target's mobile phone, and to implant monitoring software. The effects of this are unlikely to be known at this early stage, but given the tendencies of people like Theresa May - could lead to a drastically more totalitarian state than we have ever had. It would be easier than ever before to subvert groups that are not sympathetic to the government, and just because it has not yet happened does not make it any less worrisome.
Now for positives:
- Smart phones have allowed the 3rd world to enter the internet age. This is a largely positive benefit, as increased communication is very important for the world to improve.
3
In reply to Dax H:
Not having a go, but this says more about you and your own habits than the objective pros and cons of modern technology.
A tool is just a tool. It's up to the user to decide how to use it.
> I hate them with a passion and look forward to the day I can turn mine off for good.
> Unfortunately that won't be until I retire in 20 to 30 years time.
> Due to instant communication customers expectations have changed and you are e pelted to be available to them 24/7.
> Out on site I can spend half the day on my work and half the day fielding calls from customer's.
> Holiday is no respite either, a recent week in Wales was marred by at least 1 hour per day on the phone and the obligatory emails on the smart phone whenever I had a good enough signal.
> As well as this, everywhere you look are people walking, sitting or driving like mindless zombies whilst staring at a screen.
> I am most definitely not a fan.
Not having a go, but this says more about you and your own habits than the objective pros and cons of modern technology.
A tool is just a tool. It's up to the user to decide how to use it.
5
In reply to Only a hill:
Completely agree with this.
> Not having a go, but this says more about you and your own habits than the objective pros and cons of modern technology.
> A tool is just a tool. It's up to the user to decide how to use it.
Completely agree with this.
2
In reply to Only a hill:
Not always your choice, though.
When I was working in London, we were expected to be available to email 24/7 simply because we could be available to email 24/7. Saying you didn't get the email at midnight because your phone was off was simply not an acceptable excuse. Saying you worked a 6 hour day because you put in an extra 2 hours responding to emails from home didn't cut it.
Not always your choice, though.
When I was working in London, we were expected to be available to email 24/7 simply because we could be available to email 24/7. Saying you didn't get the email at midnight because your phone was off was simply not an acceptable excuse. Saying you worked a 6 hour day because you put in an extra 2 hours responding to emails from home didn't cut it.
In reply to Xharlie:
What was the job? And what was the organization/employer?
Unless your contract makes clear you have to be available 24/7 then your employer has no right to insist on it.
> When I was working in London, we were expected to be available to email 24/7 simply because we could be available to email 24/7.
What was the job? And what was the organization/employer?
Unless your contract makes clear you have to be available 24/7 then your employer has no right to insist on it.
In reply to Rob Parsons:
I'm a software architect. I resisted. They had no right but everyone else went along with it and the result was a complete hand-break on my career.
Best thing, though, because I don't work there any more.
I'm a software architect. I resisted. They had no right but everyone else went along with it and the result was a complete hand-break on my career.
Best thing, though, because I don't work there any more.
In reply to Only a hill:
This is a very naive view of technology. Technology can change society in such a way that a particular use becomes compulsory and that use of the tool may not be in your personal best interest. The example of 24/7 emails for work is a good example. You can choose not to use your phone, but this is often incompatible with holding down your job.
> A tool is just a tool. It's up to the user to decide how to use it.
This is a very naive view of technology. Technology can change society in such a way that a particular use becomes compulsory and that use of the tool may not be in your personal best interest. The example of 24/7 emails for work is a good example. You can choose not to use your phone, but this is often incompatible with holding down your job.
2
In reply to Dax H:
This is one of there sadist effects ... they can disengage us from the here and now and destroy any mindfullness.
My view is that it's a question of how you manage your personal technology. For example, phone off when ont'hill, no electronic gadgets at the dinner table etc.
It's your karma. Choose how you react to the technology and manage it.
> (In reply to Bobling)
> As well as this, everywhere you look are people walking, sitting or driving like mindless zombies whilst staring at a screen.
>
> As well as this, everywhere you look are people walking, sitting or driving like mindless zombies whilst staring at a screen.
>
This is one of there sadist effects ... they can disengage us from the here and now and destroy any mindfullness.
My view is that it's a question of how you manage your personal technology. For example, phone off when ont'hill, no electronic gadgets at the dinner table etc.
It's your karma. Choose how you react to the technology and manage it.
3
In reply to Bobling:
I suppose I'll have to reluctantly admit that they are a tad better than telegraphs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_line
I suppose I'll have to reluctantly admit that they are a tad better than telegraphs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_line
2
In reply to XXXX:
I hear you, but personal choice is still at the core of the issue. You've presumably chosen to have that particular job. The vast majority of jobs don't require 24/7 access to emails.
What I'm trying to say is that this isn't an objective disadvantage of communications tech. Just because some people find themselves in the situation where they feel overwhelmed by constant connectivity, doesn't mean that's an inherently bad thing. Others find 24/7 connectivity a positive benefit. It would be like saying all peanut butter is bad just because some people have a peanut allergy.
> This is a very naive view of technology. Technology can change society in such a way that a particular use becomes compulsory and that use of the tool may not be in your personal best interest. The example of 24/7 emails for work is a good example. You can choose not to use your phone, but this is often incompatible with holding down your job.
I hear you, but personal choice is still at the core of the issue. You've presumably chosen to have that particular job. The vast majority of jobs don't require 24/7 access to emails.
What I'm trying to say is that this isn't an objective disadvantage of communications tech. Just because some people find themselves in the situation where they feel overwhelmed by constant connectivity, doesn't mean that's an inherently bad thing. Others find 24/7 connectivity a positive benefit. It would be like saying all peanut butter is bad just because some people have a peanut allergy.
Post edited at 16:15
1
In reply to Trangia:
Nonsense! The telegraphs kept people employed!
> I suppose I'll have to reluctantly admit that they are a tad better than telegraphs
Nonsense! The telegraphs kept people employed!
In reply to Bobling:
How 'bout a poll for upgrading the message board to a forum so that we can use features like polls. It's not 2000 any more.
How 'bout a poll for upgrading the message board to a forum so that we can use features like polls. It's not 2000 any more.
2
In reply to wbo:
I have done on occasion... More usually I turn it off. Being of the pre- phone generation I like it switched off or not there but I see younger folk getting withdrawal symptoms if they can't txt their pals!
In a couple of generations time humans will have hugely developed thumbs (from texting) and myopia and rounded shoulders from peering at a wee screen all the time.....
> Why don't you just leave it in the car?
I have done on occasion... More usually I turn it off. Being of the pre- phone generation I like it switched off or not there but I see younger folk getting withdrawal symptoms if they can't txt their pals!
In a couple of generations time humans will have hugely developed thumbs (from texting) and myopia and rounded shoulders from peering at a wee screen all the time.....
1
1
In reply to Bobling:
I see that a cafe in Brighton has surrounded itself with a Farraday cage which stops phone signals getting through. It will be interesting to see if they gain or lose custom.
I see that a cafe in Brighton has surrounded itself with a Farraday cage which stops phone signals getting through. It will be interesting to see if they gain or lose custom.
In reply to Only a hill:
Yes a tool is a tool the problem is when things hit the fan if my customers can't get hold of me to rectify the problem they will get hold of a different company.
To whoever mentioned delegating, trust me I do.
Before I go away I write out a document detailing any problem jobs I am working on and personally brief key members of my staff too.
I am confident that my guys could deal with 95% of any problems that come in, it's the last 5% that is the problem.
A lot of the stuff I deal with are the this can't possibly happen but it does type and the only way to deal with that is through experience. I have 30 years experience and still get stuck, my guys are getting better all the time but they still have years to go when dealing with my side of the business.
Then there is the problem of my customers knowing if they ring me personally I can give them chapter and verse on any of their machines off the top of my head including past breakdown and resolution history.
They can get the same info from my office but that is only open during working hours and in a 24/7 industry they often need the answers now.
Because I am in work 50 weeks of the year they get used to ringing me direct and even though I tell them I am going away they still seem incapable of ringing my office.
I have tried turning my phone off, I have tried not ringing back until I am home again but basically if I want the contract (that pays 60% of my overheads) I have to be available.
Things are going the right way though. 6 years ago this contract was 99% of my work before I set up the other side of the business.
Now it's only 60% and looking like it will be between 40 and 50% once this year finishes.
In 2 or 3 years if things carry on like this I will be able to afford to lose the big contract so I will be able to take a bit of a back seat on it then.
Of course by then phones will be implanted directly in our brains and it will be even harder to switch off but one problem at a time please.
Edited to add.
To the guy saying I have an over inflated self worth.
There are a number of people in my industry that can do what I do, the problem is they don't work for me and I can't afford to employ them hence I have to do it myself.
> A tool is just a tool. It's up to the user to decide how to use it.
Yes a tool is a tool the problem is when things hit the fan if my customers can't get hold of me to rectify the problem they will get hold of a different company.
To whoever mentioned delegating, trust me I do.
Before I go away I write out a document detailing any problem jobs I am working on and personally brief key members of my staff too.
I am confident that my guys could deal with 95% of any problems that come in, it's the last 5% that is the problem.
A lot of the stuff I deal with are the this can't possibly happen but it does type and the only way to deal with that is through experience. I have 30 years experience and still get stuck, my guys are getting better all the time but they still have years to go when dealing with my side of the business.
Then there is the problem of my customers knowing if they ring me personally I can give them chapter and verse on any of their machines off the top of my head including past breakdown and resolution history.
They can get the same info from my office but that is only open during working hours and in a 24/7 industry they often need the answers now.
Because I am in work 50 weeks of the year they get used to ringing me direct and even though I tell them I am going away they still seem incapable of ringing my office.
I have tried turning my phone off, I have tried not ringing back until I am home again but basically if I want the contract (that pays 60% of my overheads) I have to be available.
Things are going the right way though. 6 years ago this contract was 99% of my work before I set up the other side of the business.
Now it's only 60% and looking like it will be between 40 and 50% once this year finishes.
In 2 or 3 years if things carry on like this I will be able to afford to lose the big contract so I will be able to take a bit of a back seat on it then.
Of course by then phones will be implanted directly in our brains and it will be even harder to switch off but one problem at a time please.
Edited to add.
To the guy saying I have an over inflated self worth.
There are a number of people in my industry that can do what I do, the problem is they don't work for me and I can't afford to employ them hence I have to do it myself.
Post edited at 23:24
3
In reply to Trangia:
The equivalent, for the time, of an area with bad reception.
But probably dealt with in a calmer manner.
Or not. Misinterpretation might have had greater consequences. I can't imagine semaphore systems being used for -
"what are you doing?"
"nothing. You?"
"nothing"
> Not when it was raining!
The equivalent, for the time, of an area with bad reception.
But probably dealt with in a calmer manner.
Or not. Misinterpretation might have had greater consequences. I can't imagine semaphore systems being used for -
"what are you doing?"
"nothing. You?"
"nothing"
1
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