UKC

I'm pretty inexperienced at ebay, but I think some UKCers are. So I am seeking their advice.
This is what happened on a bid for a camera lens. At one point in the bidding I has the high bid of 760 USD. Then at the end I was hit by a flurry of automatic bids from the same bidder, which I chased up manually. But, I gave up in the end at 910. So between 760 USD and 910 there were no other bidders apart from me and them.
Now it seems the winner may not pay, and I have been contacted by the seller with an offer just below the 910 price, but a lot higher than the last 'legitimate' bid (mine) of 760.
The seller looks to me legit - he does not seem to be a big ebay trader, and is rated 100% positive with 17 positive feedbacks in the last year. But the other bidder looks weird. His/her history is that they have made 91 bids on 88 items in the last 30 days. And they are 0% positive.
I've complained to ebay. What do you think?

In reply to MikeTS:

Doesn't sound like shilling to me. If I was shilling I wouldn't leave it until the end, I'd start early to give the mark some time to respond.
Sounds like a buyer using an automated sniping app has changed their mind, or simultaneously won a better deal.
Either way, I'd offer the seller your last bid. The final price is irrelevant if the bidder won't pay it.

In reply to Hooo:

Yes, I agree it was technically not shilling. I've now been communicating with the seller, and he sounds 100% legit.
But do you mean my last bid before this other 'buyer'(with a sniper bot maybe?) jumped into the auction with 10 minutes to go, i.e. 760. Or the last bid I made before I gave up, at 900?
Also I am still confused why the buyer would act this way. If he is 0% positive that means he has never bought anything. So he couldn't have simultaneously sniped,and backed out of one auction and bought in the other?

In reply to MikeTS

It could still be a shill, but poorly executed, or it could be someone trying to scam the seller. Or even an accidental bid or someone who hasn't got the hang of ebay.
TBH I've long given up trying to fathom people's motives and now only bid by sniping. I set a price that I'm willing to pay and forget about it until the auction is over. Mostly I don't get the item, but I don't stress about it.
The point is that your auction is void. If you trust the seller then I would offer what you think is a good price, take it or leave it. So probably your 760. If they say no, they will re-list and you can try again.

In reply to Hooo:

Thx for the advice. I'll look into sniping bots.
In my case the other buyer can't be unfamiliar with bidding, since he/she has made 91 bids in the last 30 days!
Is it maybe some kind of virus type bot that just is messing with ebay?

In reply to MikeTS:

Is this lens particularly special? I'd leave well alone this time and then bid on it when the seller re-lists the item to be sure of a clean auction. If it goes too high that time and you are out bid walk away and there will no doubt be another one for sale in the near future.

In reply to MikeTS:

Unfortunately there is a portion of eBay users who will bid on a few different auctions for the same type of item then buy the cheapest one.

In reply to MikeTS:

You didn't win so have no obligation to proceed. That puts you in a strong position.

It all depends how much you want the lens. If you think it's worth the 760 offer that. If you think you'll struggle to find a similar bargain offer more.

Or alternatively watch for the item to be relisted and start again.

In reply to MikeTS: If you were manually bidding to almost the 910 level then I assume you would have been willing to pay those bids if you had won?

I would simply look at how much you are willing to pay for the lens. If that is your final bid and the seller is offering the lens to you at that price then buy it.

In reply to BigBrother

Thx everyone. Since the bidding was weird, I was worried that there are other problems So I think I'll stay out of he whole thing for now

In reply to MikeTS:

Probably the best bet.
I have 2 eBay rules
1 of anything feels iffy weal away.
2 never spend more that £100. Every time I have gone over £100 it has turned in to a nightmare and I have been refunded from eBay.

In reply to MikeTS:

I also reported the auction to ebay

In reply to Hooo:



OK, I see now. They wanted to get the goods and not pay, so they do not care what price they bid?

In reply to MikeTS:

Could be that or someone who got carried away bidding then had second thoughts or someone who had bid on multiple items and got one and discarded the rest or it could be shill bidding.

In reply to MikeTS:

If you decide you want to buy don't purchase outwith ebay. Ask them to relist and close the auction on receipt of your bid.

In reply to MikeTS:

Whats a shilling?

In reply to Phil1919:




About 5p in new money....................

In reply to Oceanrower:

You're showing your age a bit there!

In reply to digby:

Why?

In reply to Phil1919:
The process by which someone in collaboration with the seller pushes up the auction price by making phony bids. So at the end either 1. the person being conned pays more than they needed to, or 2. the buyer plus phony bidder try again.

In reply to MikeTS:

Thanks. I wonder how they chose the word?

In reply to Phil1919:


From Wiki:

The origin of the term "shill" is uncertain; it may be an abbreviation of "shillaber." The word originally denoted a carnival worker who pretended to be a member of the audience in an attempt to elicit interest in an attraction. Some sources trace the usage back to 1914.

In reply to Ghastly Rubberfeet:

Thanks.

In reply to digby:


Do you mean that this way I keep the eBay / Paypal protections in this transaction?

In reply to MikeTS:

I don't know what was happening, but with eBay, and with that amount of money, I wouldn't risk it.
Let the seller re-list and then re-bid. Just bid what you think it is worth.
In my experience no one accepts those second place offers when the winning bidder backs out of the deal, so the seller probably isn't expecting you to.

In reply to MikeTS:
Exactly. Fraudsters try to get people to pay outwith eBay with disastrous results. You lose money and goods and any protection.

In reply to MikeTS:

Many (most?) buyers/sellers for anything act a lot on trust whether within or outwith eBay. More protection within, but you can still minimise your risks if outwith.

You need to decide where you stand. Do you really trust seller? Is it too good an offer to loose out on buying or alternatively is it potentially too risky in your view loosing your money if it all goes wrong? There can always be negatives - eg If you trust the seller it's always possible things can go wrong - say it gets lost/damaged in post, then you'll have to rely fully on the seller to act responsibly, and they may not as they may think you have scammed them. They maybe defensive already if they don't know why the original buyer walked.

Second chance offers do work. I've done them both as buyer and seller. One thing I've not done (for an ebayed item) though is conclude outwith eBay.

I've been lucky/fortunate whatever you want to call it and have had very few problems with buying or selling. However, you know the history of this case and have to use your own judgement how to proceed. Have you not decided already to leave it from a previous post? Reading the thread and based on what you say, I don't think your happy with the circumstances so unless it is a very rare lens I think you should walk away. If it's relisted, then just start again and consider offering up to what you think the lens is worth to you.

In reply to Climbing Pieman:

Interesting advice. I've learned a lot about eBay from this experience and finding out what people think and do about it. I have now bought a lens: but this time as a 'Buy it now'.
I am sure someone has studied whether bidding saves money compared to 'buy it now' - but it certainly is less stressful!

In reply to MikeTS:

If you have the time to wait for the auction to end, the method of bidding mentioned above is not stressful at all.

ie: Use an automated sniping service. Think carefully about how much you would actually be willing to pay at the most, set up a snipe to bid that amount and then forget about it until the auction is over.

Works well for me. If everyone were completely rational there would be no need for the sniping, you could just bid directly in the same way. But I find the sniping helps to prevent someone (or sometimes even myself) from getting caught up in a competitive mindset where they end up bidding more than they should out of a desire to "win" the auction.

If there are no bids on the item and there is some time to run, sometimes I find it's worth putting in a low early bid to register an interest as well as setting up the snipe. If the seller is following ebay's rules, it's only after there has been at least one bid that they are committed to seeing the auction through.

In reply to deepsoup:

Will try this next time, but do not expect to be using eBay much.
Yes, in a rational world, we would view the item and then make one bid in secret of what we logically consider to be what we want to pay, then send the bid to eBay who keep it secret. Then at a defined time the bids are looked at and the highest wins. So if we all sniped this would be the same, in effect, I suppose.
I assume eBay does it by this method (and does not support sniping, which it technologically could) because 1. it is more dramatic 2. it increases on average the end price, which sellers would prefer 3. buyers feel they can avoid overbidding because they have information about the other buyers' behaviour

In reply to MikeTS:


Bear in mind that eBay charge sellers a % of the selling price, so it's in eBay's own direct interest for selling prices to be as high as possible.

In reply to MikeTS:

The joys of e-bay. The odds are that the mystery bidder was the seller under a different name. It has been done in auction sales for years, before computers were invented. Stick to your original highest bid. If you get it great, if not it will be back up for sale again soon. Still stick to your highest bid, because the same thing will be done, maybe using another 'customer' name. So many people fall for the trick and many of the sellers know that bidders are easy prey.
(When I was selling cars at auction I would frequently bid on my own cars if there were interested private customers! The auction house knew and didn't care as they were on a percentage of selling price. Rarely did the private bidder back off on a price offer higher than they had bid.

In reply to johncrook:
Nice of you to admit to being a dishonest bastard. So why should we believe anything you say?

Sorry - I meant thieving toerag.

In reply to MikeTS:

Do not stick to your original highest bid.
Revert to your starting bid.
Your highest bid is not a reflection of market value but simply a personal limit set by your own participation in the process, in which you may have got carried away. True market value would be determined by a number of other genuine buyers bidding against each other.
If the seller doesn't accept, then walk away and wait for it to be re-listed.

In reply to Helen Bach:

Some people reform, some just seem to stay bitter!

In reply to johncook:

I get the story, but it does not make sense here. The phony buyer had been very active on ebay, bidding on average on 3 items a day for the last month. The seller has only offered/sold 3 things in the last 4 years.
Anyway it is now academic, I have bought a different lens at a good price.

In reply to birdie num num:
You are 100% correct (for once!) and that is the logic I followed

In reply to Martin W:

Yes, but I think another stronger argument is that eBay wants as many sellers as possible to participate, so makes it seem that sellers have an advantage in auctions!
After all, there is no equivalent of eBay for buyers looking for sellers of defined items, as far as I know!