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I'm heading to Scotland for a week, with no fixed plans but hopefully some big mountain VSs like Fionn Buttress. I've got loads of guides of 90s vintage from when I lived in Scotland, plus a few slightly newer ones (see https://www.flickr.com/photos/toby-northern_light/29096055531 ) and I know any of the mountain routes we're capable of are almost certainly going to be in those books, but I know there has been so much cragging development up in the NW (around Gairloch for example) both trad and sport, that I'm happy to invest in a new guide.
What do people think of the Latter guides? Or the SMC Scottish Rock Climbs?
And if anyone wants to suggest must do routes (realistically probably up to VS and HVS, possibly E1 if we are going well) really anywhere in Scotland please do. For background, my friend who I'm climbing with is the person that I've done a lot of my big Norwegian climbs with, like Stetind, the logistics for Arctic Norway didn't work out this year, so this is the alternative. I know there isn't anything quite like Stetind or Presten in Scotland, but some proper multipitch adventures would be good!
What do people think of the Latter guides? Or the SMC Scottish Rock Climbs?
And if anyone wants to suggest must do routes (realistically probably up to VS and HVS, possibly E1 if we are going well) really anywhere in Scotland please do. For background, my friend who I'm climbing with is the person that I've done a lot of my big Norwegian climbs with, like Stetind, the logistics for Arctic Norway didn't work out this year, so this is the alternative. I know there isn't anything quite like Stetind or Presten in Scotland, but some proper multipitch adventures would be good!
In reply to TobyA:
Can't help with guidebooks (mine are the same vintage as yours) but if you've never climbed on Shelterstone or Creag an Dubh Loch think about a visit, both have good options at HVS/E1 (I guess you've climbed a lot at Glencoe, Nevis etc when you lived in Glasgow)
Can't help with guidebooks (mine are the same vintage as yours) but if you've never climbed on Shelterstone or Creag an Dubh Loch think about a visit, both have good options at HVS/E1 (I guess you've climbed a lot at Glencoe, Nevis etc when you lived in Glasgow)
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In reply to Doug:
I have done some things in the West but not huge amounts in summer, and mainly the V Diff and Severe classics. So for example I've done the big ridges on the Ben but not the Long Climb or anything on Carn Dearg Buttress.
We've discussed Shelterstone, but I don't know if we're up for, say, the Needle. Dave is a much better better climber than me but has been skiing and then sailing too much this year and not climbing. I've been climbing a reasonable amount but mainly soloing lower grade grit and then doing via ferratas with my kids!
I have done some things in the West but not huge amounts in summer, and mainly the V Diff and Severe classics. So for example I've done the big ridges on the Ben but not the Long Climb or anything on Carn Dearg Buttress.
We've discussed Shelterstone, but I don't know if we're up for, say, the Needle. Dave is a much better better climber than me but has been skiing and then sailing too much this year and not climbing. I've been climbing a reasonable amount but mainly soloing lower grade grit and then doing via ferratas with my kids!
In reply to TobyA:
I'm sure Dave is up for Needle... that skinny b*stard can climb hard, even if he's taken a full year off from climbing...
And after seeing some pics from Olhava, I know he's been climbing.
So I'm sure the Needle would give ya no problemos... and then you have already scouted it for a winter ascent ...
I'm sure Dave is up for Needle... that skinny b*stard can climb hard, even if he's taken a full year off from climbing...
And after seeing some pics from Olhava, I know he's been climbing.
So I'm sure the Needle would give ya no problemos... and then you have already scouted it for a winter ascent ...
In reply to TobyA:
I wouldn't assume that all of the mountain routes will be in the SMC Scottish rock climbs. I bought it but sent it back and swapped it for the Latter guide as it didn't have some of the mountain routes we wanted to do on the Cullin in it. The latter guides are a lot more comprehensive, although of course you need to buy two of them if you want to climb both in the north and the south.
I wouldn't assume that all of the mountain routes will be in the SMC Scottish rock climbs. I bought it but sent it back and swapped it for the Latter guide as it didn't have some of the mountain routes we wanted to do on the Cullin in it. The latter guides are a lot more comprehensive, although of course you need to buy two of them if you want to climb both in the north and the south.
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Don't miss Clean Sweep.
The big wall at Sheigra is very atmospheric and has a couple of HVS options if conditions aren't great high up.
I like the Gary Latter books (as an indulgent supplement to the area guides) but haven't seen inside an SMC selective guide to compare.
Hope you get fine weather and no midges!
The big wall at Sheigra is very atmospheric and has a couple of HVS options if conditions aren't great high up.
I like the Gary Latter books (as an indulgent supplement to the area guides) but haven't seen inside an SMC selective guide to compare.
Hope you get fine weather and no midges!
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In reply to TobyA:
The Latter guides seem OK, that said I have all the definitive guides. There certainly have been a lot of developments at your sort of grade since the old guides both in the NW and central highlands.
Have you done Spartan slab or hammer on etive slabs? I think you'll like them and if you get an early start you should be able to do both.
Another good option is the old man of stoer, which is a superb mini adventure.
I must admit I've always wanted to do the HVS climbs on Carn Dearg buttress and the classic VS / HVS climbs on the Dub Loch but its a bit out of the way.
There is some truly great routes in the Cairngorms but they do tend to be dotted around a bit with long approaches. (Stuff like Talisman, Scabbard, Square face, the needle etc)
There is some great climbing on Arran (South Ridge Direct etc).
Beware the midgies at this time of year though they can be a problem on most Scottish crags unless there is a breeze or strong sunshine. The NW in particular can be mobbed by them, they love the sandstone and bogs I think.
The Latter guides seem OK, that said I have all the definitive guides. There certainly have been a lot of developments at your sort of grade since the old guides both in the NW and central highlands.
Have you done Spartan slab or hammer on etive slabs? I think you'll like them and if you get an early start you should be able to do both.
Another good option is the old man of stoer, which is a superb mini adventure.
I must admit I've always wanted to do the HVS climbs on Carn Dearg buttress and the classic VS / HVS climbs on the Dub Loch but its a bit out of the way.
There is some truly great routes in the Cairngorms but they do tend to be dotted around a bit with long approaches. (Stuff like Talisman, Scabbard, Square face, the needle etc)
There is some great climbing on Arran (South Ridge Direct etc).
Beware the midgies at this time of year though they can be a problem on most Scottish crags unless there is a breeze or strong sunshine. The NW in particular can be mobbed by them, they love the sandstone and bogs I think.
Post edited at 18:28
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In reply to TobyA:
I use and find both well fit for purpose.
Gary's guides are easier to find the crags without a map ( sssh ) and are more helpful with approach times and when a mountain bike will save time.
The coverage is slightly overlapping, so either will be fine for an occasional visit.
Have a midge strategy!
> What do people think of the Latter guides? Or the SMC Scottish Rock Climbs?
I use and find both well fit for purpose.
Gary's guides are easier to find the crags without a map ( sssh ) and are more helpful with approach times and when a mountain bike will save time.
The coverage is slightly overlapping, so either will be fine for an occasional visit.
Have a midge strategy!
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
Done Old Man of Stoer and Spartan Slab yonks back. Talisman - that's one I forgotten about - its meant to be really good if I remember Andy Nisbet recommendation correctly.
Has anyone done Minus One Buttress on the Ben? Howett's guide describes it as one of the best climbs in the universe!
Thanks to everyone for the ideas.
Done Old Man of Stoer and Spartan Slab yonks back. Talisman - that's one I forgotten about - its meant to be really good if I remember Andy Nisbet recommendation correctly.
Has anyone done Minus One Buttress on the Ben? Howett's guide describes it as one of the best climbs in the universe!
Thanks to everyone for the ideas.
Post edited at 18:45
In reply to TobyA:
It is a very good E1, the first couple of pitches take some time to dry.
> Has anyone done Minus One Buttress on the Ben? Howett's guide describes it as one of the best climbs in the universe!
It is a very good E1, the first couple of pitches take some time to dry.
In reply to TobyA:
logically there is a risk that the cairngorm granite is compared unfairly with Norwegian stuff so if weather cooperates head west. the buaichaille dries fast peasants passage, red slab, line up and e face of n buttress are all good. bludgers revelation round the corner is superb as is ravens edge apparently.
you could also have a tilt at the chasm if these roures seem too short.
centurion and bullroarer and then a trip along to creag dubh to ensure adrenaline reserves are fully exhausted....
alternatively the weather may throw the whole plan in reverse and you end up cragging in Pembroke!
logically there is a risk that the cairngorm granite is compared unfairly with Norwegian stuff so if weather cooperates head west. the buaichaille dries fast peasants passage, red slab, line up and e face of n buttress are all good. bludgers revelation round the corner is superb as is ravens edge apparently.
you could also have a tilt at the chasm if these roures seem too short.
centurion and bullroarer and then a trip along to creag dubh to ensure adrenaline reserves are fully exhausted....
alternatively the weather may throw the whole plan in reverse and you end up cragging in Pembroke!
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In reply to TobyA:
If picking a selective guide I'd go for one of the Latter ones. About twice as much stuff in each volume than Scottish Rock Climbs which seems a bit too select to me, and of course if you got both guides that would be 4 times as much stuff.
If picking a selective guide I'd go for one of the Latter ones. About twice as much stuff in each volume than Scottish Rock Climbs which seems a bit too select to me, and of course if you got both guides that would be 4 times as much stuff.
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In reply to TobyA:
Gary's guides will keep you occupied and inspired. The South is getting re-printed (with corrections) as we speak.
There are the odd frustrating errors - but what I've found is if you fallow your "climbers head" more strictly than the written description/topo you'll probably be fine. If there are any routes you really want to do, check the UKlogbook comments .
If you email Gary he might even give you the most important corrections!
Gary's guides will keep you occupied and inspired. The South is getting re-printed (with corrections) as we speak.
There are the odd frustrating errors - but what I've found is if you fallow your "climbers head" more strictly than the written description/topo you'll probably be fine. If there are any routes you really want to do, check the UKlogbook comments .
If you email Gary he might even give you the most important corrections!
In reply to Alasdair Fulton:
Yep, a mate just did Gob a few days ago and said they found the diagram pretty useless for that cliff in that guide. Still loved the route though!
> There are the odd frustrating errors - but what I've found is if you fallow your "climbers head" more strictly than the written description/topo you'll probably be fine.
Yep, a mate just did Gob a few days ago and said they found the diagram pretty useless for that cliff in that guide. Still loved the route though!
In reply to alasdair19:
On the contrary, what I like about the granite of Lofoten, Stetind etc is that it is more like the charcterful granite of the Cairngorms than the blander stuff of Chamonmix, Yosemite etc.
> logically there is a risk that the cairngorm granite is compared unfairly with Norwegian stuff.
On the contrary, what I like about the granite of Lofoten, Stetind etc is that it is more like the charcterful granite of the Cairngorms than the blander stuff of Chamonmix, Yosemite etc.
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In reply to TobyA:
If either of you are climbing E1, get on Unicorn in SCNL - the first pitch has the crux (5bish) and it eases off after that. Fantastic position on a huge corner.
If either of you are climbing E1, get on Unicorn in SCNL - the first pitch has the crux (5bish) and it eases off after that. Fantastic position on a huge corner.
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In reply to TobyA:
Yes it's a poor diagram - the one in Northern Highlands Central is miles better
> Yep, a mate just did Gob a few days ago and said they found the diagram pretty useless for that cliff in that guide. Still loved the route though!
Yes it's a poor diagram - the one in Northern Highlands Central is miles better
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In reply to TobyA:
Have you done Hammer (HVS), arguably its at least as good if not better than Spartan.
If you are in the applecross area Sword of Gideon (VS) is worth doing.
South Ridge Direct on Arran is possibly one of the best VS ridge routes in Scotland if you haven't done it.
Have you done Hammer (HVS), arguably its at least as good if not better than Spartan.
If you are in the applecross area Sword of Gideon (VS) is worth doing.
South Ridge Direct on Arran is possibly one of the best VS ridge routes in Scotland if you haven't done it.
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In reply to TobyA:
the buchaille also has a lot of good routes at VS.
Have you done:
Crows nest crack, royal flush, hiccup, hangmans crack, Grooved Arete, Red Slab?
Hiccup can be enchained with a bunch of other routes ( and a small scramble traverse over to Rannoch wall) so you are basically climbing good VS routes from the bottom of the mountain to the top of Rannoch wall.
Engineers Crack is supposed to be good and a give away for E1 being soft and well protected.
The problem I've found with the buchaille is going up the grades from VS its quite hard to find climbs with good protection.
the buchaille also has a lot of good routes at VS.
Have you done:
Crows nest crack, royal flush, hiccup, hangmans crack, Grooved Arete, Red Slab?
Hiccup can be enchained with a bunch of other routes ( and a small scramble traverse over to Rannoch wall) so you are basically climbing good VS routes from the bottom of the mountain to the top of Rannoch wall.
Engineers Crack is supposed to be good and a give away for E1 being soft and well protected.
The problem I've found with the buchaille is going up the grades from VS its quite hard to find climbs with good protection.
Post edited at 11:56
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In reply to TobyA:
I will give a thumbs up for the Scottish Rock guides (North & South) as I have just invested in them myself for a two week trip end of next week. They are very good books and cover big mountain routes, shorter cragging areas and sea cliffs so all round very diverse.
I will give a thumbs up for the Scottish Rock guides (North & South) as I have just invested in them myself for a two week trip end of next week. They are very good books and cover big mountain routes, shorter cragging areas and sea cliffs so all round very diverse.
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
Good info on the Buachaille. I'd add May Crack to that list, and 'Garrotte' (next to Hangman's Crack) also gives good climbing. For a well protected HVS, 'Dingle' is a really great corner pitch, arguably even better than Engineer's Crack which it is next to.
Good info on the Buachaille. I'd add May Crack to that list, and 'Garrotte' (next to Hangman's Crack) also gives good climbing. For a well protected HVS, 'Dingle' is a really great corner pitch, arguably even better than Engineer's Crack which it is next to.
In reply to TobyA:
My two favorite "orange/ easy red" routes in the British Isles are Ardverikie Wall (HS 4b) and The Pause (E1 5b) (way better than Spartan or Hammer). My fave venue is the Cuillin. My fave area the far NW. Pretty much everything I've climbed in Scotland has been good or excellent. As for other picks that no one has no one mentioned yet, try this: Jack the Ripper (E1 5b)
My two favorite "orange/ easy red" routes in the British Isles are Ardverikie Wall (HS 4b) and The Pause (E1 5b) (way better than Spartan or Hammer). My fave venue is the Cuillin. My fave area the far NW. Pretty much everything I've climbed in Scotland has been good or excellent. As for other picks that no one has no one mentioned yet, try this: Jack the Ripper (E1 5b)
In reply to Offwidth:
Now that's a route I would love to have done.
> My two favorite "orange/ easy red" routes in the British Isles are Ardverikie Wall (HS 4b) and The Pause (E1 5b) (way better than Spartan or Hammer). My fave venue is the Cuillin. My fave area the far NW. Pretty much everything I've climbed in Scotland has been good or excellent. As for other picks that no one has no one mentioned yet, try this: Jack the Ripper (E1 5b): Jack the Ripper (E1 5b)
Now that's a route I would love to have done.
In reply to TobyA:
If you do end up further north in the Gairloch area, GoFurtherScotland have some updated WildWest topo's available for download from their site: http://www.gofurtherscotland.co.uk/go-free-topo-downloads
The midges are a bit ferocious right now but you can avoid them with some careful crag choices. That said, there was no way I was venturing outside last Sunday, they were savage and there wasn't a breath of wind to keep them away.
If you do end up further north in the Gairloch area, GoFurtherScotland have some updated WildWest topo's available for download from their site: http://www.gofurtherscotland.co.uk/go-free-topo-downloads
The midges are a bit ferocious right now but you can avoid them with some careful crag choices. That said, there was no way I was venturing outside last Sunday, they were savage and there wasn't a breath of wind to keep them away.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Did Crow's nest Crack yesterday, very good! First pitch is cracking, airy and scary but not really dangerous. I lead the second which was a bit crap for gear but straight forward. Did Gimmer Crack on Wednesday straight after picking Dave up from the airport! Finland to Scotland in a day via one of the most classic Lakes VSs.
Did Crow's nest Crack yesterday, very good! First pitch is cracking, airy and scary but not really dangerous. I lead the second which was a bit crap for gear but straight forward. Did Gimmer Crack on Wednesday straight after picking Dave up from the airport! Finland to Scotland in a day via one of the most classic Lakes VSs.
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In reply to TobyA:
Assume you mean Minus One Direct? Bottom pitches are slightly damp and loose but above that it's an incredible climb. Although the original route "crux" is 5a, and the pitch after that is actually 5b. It's got a bit of everything you could want from a big mountain route; corners, slabs, overhangs, cracks etc.
Finish up NE Buttress for the full alpine experience without ever going to the Alps...
Assume you mean Minus One Direct? Bottom pitches are slightly damp and loose but above that it's an incredible climb. Although the original route "crux" is 5a, and the pitch after that is actually 5b. It's got a bit of everything you could want from a big mountain route; corners, slabs, overhangs, cracks etc.
Finish up NE Buttress for the full alpine experience without ever going to the Alps...
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I was going to recommend South Ridge Direct (VS 5a) but you got there first! Long way from Shelterstone mind...
Dave
I was going to recommend South Ridge Direct (VS 5a) but you got there first! Long way from Shelterstone mind...
Dave
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