UKC

https://www.change.org/p/the-international-federation-of-sport-climbing-ifs...

In reply to mark mcgowan01:

I was going to post something on the news item on your Matterhorn attempt, but this thread is much better. This is a genuine and completely unloaded question. What makes an autistic (or deaf) person physically disabled?

In reply to jon:
Well deaf people are physically unable to hear.

On a more serious note why did you use the word physically?

Not all disabilities are physical.

In reply to marsbar:
I used the word physically as that to my mind would be one of the two determining factors that would stop someone competing alongside an 'able bodied' person. The other type of disability that would is 'mentally' and clearly deaf people are not mentally disabled. As for autism, I'm not sure how or whether it's classified as a mental condition/disability - I've always assumed not, and certainly of the autistic people I've known/worked with, I'd have said none of them were physically disabled. Educate me - I know you've said you are autistic.

In reply to mark mcgowan01:

Why would being deaf make climbing more of a challenge? Genuine question.

In reply to Oceanrower:


Belaying maybe. "Take!......Take!.........FFS Take!!!" We've all been there.

In reply to Robert Durran:
I accept that would make belaying more of a challenge though, by the time you get to international level, panicking about falling off is probably less of a problem.

I repeat, why would being deaf make CLIMBING more of a challenge?

In reply to Oceanrower:

Not always, but often, inability to hear effects balance and coordination:

http://www.hearingdirect.com/blog/does-hearing-loss-affect-balance.html

Also, in a learning environment, ability to hear is a key part of the general way in which we are taught things, imagine, for example, whilst getting into climbing you didn't hear any time someone helpfully pointed out where that foothold was, or gave specific instructions during the act of climbing to help point you in the right direction. Whilst those things aren't insurmountable, they do mean that a deaf climber is going to have found it harder to get to operate at the same level as someone with full hearing.

In reply to marsbar:




Why would being deaf be a disadvantage in competition climbing?

In reply to 65m moderate millington:

Fair enough, but surely by the time someone has got to the level of competing nationally or internationaly, they'll have got over those learning problems?

In reply to 65m moderate millington:




Whilst I have limited experience of working with deaf people my observation would suggest that they can be far better at "listening" to instruction than many people with normal hearing.

In reply to marsbar:

As far as I am aware the IPC do not have categories for none physical disabilities.

Agreed, if they get there - that's definitely secondary to the main issues around balance and proprioception.

In reply to timjones:

Also agreed, it's much more of a challenge to find high quality coaches with experience of working with Deaf climbers though. I know that SENSE Scotland have done a lot of work on climbing with sensory impairments, again, that's not going to effect the physical climbing ability but it is a contributory factor to getting to compete in the first place.

In reply to 65m moderate millington:


If we arelookign at people who are just deaf rather than having balance issues I would suggest that any decent coach should be able to adapt their coaching style to fit a wide range of different learning styles. A deaf climber didn't ought to be a major challenge to their coaching abilities.

In reply to jon:

I can only speak for myself. Indoor climbing I find more difficult due to the noise and people everywhere. Some climbing walls are more echoing than others. I expect quite a few people with autism find it far more difficult than me as I'm not as severely affected as a lot of people.

I can see that it might be very useful for autism sufferers to be able to climb separately and at quieter times.

I'm not sure how this relates to competition climbing as its not something I know much about.

I can see your point that it seems unfair for someone deaf or with autism to compete against someone with only one leg for example. Is that whats being asked for?

In reply to Graeme Alderson:

I have no idea if they do or not. But is this about what they have or about what they could have?

In reply to Graeme Alderson:
They must do surely - Dave Bowes competes in a neural / brain injury category; not sure what the "qualification" is for this, but his brain injury is the result of accident trauma.

In reply to marsbar:

Fair point but currently Para Sport seems to be about catering for physical disabilities.

In reply to Ian W:

Ian, are you saying that Dave has a physical or none physical disability

In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Thats why there is a petition I guess.

In reply to jon:

Speaking as another autistic climber: I rapidly found that I couldn't do bouldering competitions (even small-scale fun ones at my local wall) because the noise and crowding massively overloaded me and I'd rapidly lose any shred of climbing ability, my brain would short out, and I'd end up crying in a corner and having to flee the building.

So you could credibly argue that autistic climbers would need special accommodations (e.g. extra quiet and space for those of us who get overloaded) in order to have a chance to participate on equal terms.

However, I don't know whether the national paraclimbing series actually makes any special arrangements like that for autistic competitors -- maybe someone who knows could tell me?

In reply to slab_happy:

Being a tinnitus sufferer I can sympathise with your discomfort in noisy environments. However, that doesn't really explain why deaf climbers should be considered as disabled as far as competitions are concerned.

In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Hi Graeme,

I have 7 forms of brain damage. Whether you class this as a physical disability because my brain has been physiologically damaged, or mental disability because the disability is within my brain.... Neither here nor there really. The causes are there and they manifest themselves physically upon my body.

I suffer from some things that autistic people can relate to such as anxiety and overstimulation in crowded and noisy environments, such as peak climbing times at a wall or competitions. I combat this by wearing ear plugs and in competitions I also use specific coping strategies that I've created over several years.

I also suffer from a complete lack of balance due to vestibular damage so can relate to deaf climbers who also have vestibular damage.

The rules for IFSC Paraclimbing have changed this year so I can't compete simply under ”Neurological disorder" anymore. It has to be physical. So I think it's my vestibular issues that have kept me in the competition along with my brains interaction with my body when it is 'misfiring'.

At a national level we have autistic and deaf categories but currently have no specific catering other than trying to maintain a quiet and relaxed atmosphere, generally at times very few other climbers are around.

Slab_happy have you tried using ear plugs in climbing walls? If not start with cheap foam ones and if they work get some custom mould ones that filter out loud noise but still let you converse.

In reply to Oceanrower:

At least you wouldn't have to listen to the shit music they play too loud at climbing walls.

In reply to jon:

Its not just a physical discomfort from noise. Its disturbing, draining, overwhelming, upsetting. Hard to explain.

In reply to davebowes:

As an aside, I think your account in this video http://www.ukclimbing.com/videos/play.php?i=3160 was one of the most engaging and eloquent commentaries I've seen on here.

In reply to jon:


Thank you very much Jon, that really means a lot to me.

It's often really difficult to convey exactly how my head injury effects me on a daily basis because most people only see me on my good days, not my recovery days or bad days. Like most people with debilitating disabilities, on the bad days we don't leave the house.

This in turn feeds the notion of "he's not THAT disabled, he looks OK to me", because they see only the fully recovered, ready to face the world times. Not the shelter in a dark room at home for 3 days side.

There are a lot of people out there with hidden disabilities and many with very good coping strategies such as myself. But people still need to know that they are just that, coping strategies, and they only last a short time. The disabilities are still very much prominent and significant.

This can apply to people with Stroke, MS, ME, Autism, Deafness, many many different neurological disorders and injuries, the list goes on with invisible disabilities.

The more the disabled person has to concentrate on on their coping strategy, the more it fatigues them & depending on what symptoms they have, can result in a nasty and sudden fallout.

In reply to jon:

This related article might be of interest: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=7107

In reply to Natalie Berry - UKC:

Yes I remember reading that and thought it was a very endearing and brave account. I remember being appalled at one of the comments that read:

In reply to mark mcgowan01:

Could we add a dyslexic category?

I could be an Olympian in the 2020 paralympics

In reply to snoop6060:

I reckon dyslexia is an advantage in climbing - my unscientific anecdotal evidence suggests that dyslexics are better than "normal" people at 3D awareness. Andy Kirkpatrick is, I read it in one of his books. It fits with others I know.

In reply to marsbar:

Andy Kirkpatrick is crap at climbing tho

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=640338

In reply to marsbar:

And, a better example, Jerry Moffatt too.