/ Bathroom choices - what to do?

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Climbing Pieman on 10 Sep 2016
Looks like I need to redo my bathroom. After a visit yesterday from my plumber my head is spinning! Question after question and option after option.

Shower walk in or cubicle, tray or wet floor, raised or sunk base, wet liner, tiles or wet wall, big or small tiles, full or half height tiles, floor tiles outwith shower or full wet floor, underfloor heating yes or no and if so electric or off boiler, overhead shower head or on wall, toilet and basin suspended or on floor, replace bath or go for larger shower instead, not to mention lights, fans, etc, etc. The list I need to think about seems endless!

My basic requirements are for practical and functional for use and cleaning, and it must last a long time with minimal maintenance! I have no interest in interior designs, latest designs just cause it's the latest, and I'm not one for updating for the sake of it and certainly not looking for a showhouse type wow factor. Tried, proven and reliable wanted.

Will need to visit a bathroom showroom to narrow down options. However, knowing little to nothing, anyone have some pointers on the good, bad, must have or avoid at all costs? What would you choose if give an empty room?
balmybaldwin - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

No 1 thing is how good is your water pressure? Is your current shower decent in this respect. If not consider a water pump or pumped digital mixer shower. This makes all the difference.

Most of the rest comes down to taste and wallet
Climbing Pieman on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to balmybaldwin:

> No 1 thing is how good is your water pressure? Is your current shower decent in this respect. If not consider a water pump or pumped digital mixer shower. This makes all the difference.

3 bar mains so good. Current shower good - an aqualisa thermostat but high maintenance as needed thermo cartridges changed every four years or so at 130 a time. It has to come out anyway due to walls needing to be replaced.
ultrabumbly on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

My experience of the wet floor and the sink etc. not being on a pedestal is that life is soooo much easier cleaning wise. Just go for eliminating every nook and cranny you can.

If you are going to be using the shower well into old age you also don't really want a tray of any type and possibly you want the shower area to be wide enough to easily take a seat.

I don't think we do bathrooms very well in a lot of cases in the UK. Experience of a knackered ankle both at home and while an ex pat on separate occasions was that a tonne of stuff we do makes no sense. You don't really notice it until getting showered and so on is a little more difficult.
ebygomm - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

Main requirements were easy to clean and no pipework on display - so back to wall toilet, wall hung basin unit, no taps on bath. The constraints of our room layout meant there weren't a lot of other decisions to make, i.e. shower over bath v. large shower just wasn't an option without a huge amount of work (moving windows/doorways).
balmybaldwin - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to ebygomm:

Oh yes. A side filling bath is a good plus over one with taps at the end - stops you having to bend into awkward shapes to turn on-off (bigger plus if you have a stand-in bath shower but gather you don't) plus you won't be tempted to stick your big toe in the tap and get is stuck
ebygomm - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to balmybaldwin:

We have a bath filler that fills from the overflow and is controlled by the same control as the shower. The mistake I made was forgetting about the height of the shower control when you're sat in the bath!
gilesf - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

Unless it's on a ground floor, or the floor is concrete then I wouldn't have a wet room. If you want easy access then use a very low profile tray, assuming the flow of the waste is up to it. Big tiles require less grouting, so when the time comes and it needs re-grouting then it's not so expensive! The walls need to be as flat and straight as possible though with larger tiles.
Bear in mind that wet under floor heating will raise floor level by at least 40mm, electric by 30mm. It's an expensive option, so if the room isn't a cold one then you could consider a large heated towel rail, run off the central heating and with an electric element for summer use. Make sure that you have a good quality timer fan fitted to keep the room well ventilated and cut down on damp related problems.
Wall hung basins and w/c are good from a hygiene point of view but for them to work properly the supply and wastes have to be in the correct place, eg. a wall hung basin needs the pipes coming through the wall, not up from the floor.
Chris Harris - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to ebygomm:

> Main requirements were easy to clean and no pipework on display - so back to wall toilet,

They all are aren't they? Or do some people have their bog installed so it's facing the wall?

Climbing Pieman on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to gilesf:
Thanks everyone. Lots of great points to consider. Bath yes it's awkward to get to the tap end when in bath so would think of side filling. That said, I'm getting older, have OA and spinal problems so this could be an opportunity to just get rid of bath and have a larger shower instead.

It is ground floor, and a 20yr old house so insulation although not the best in today's terms is good, and straight walls, etc. No problem with access to soil pipes so room can be totally changed round - only restriction is window and door positions may stop some combinations.

Given that the cause of this change is due to a water leak not yet fully identified, but probably through grout/silicone sealant, I am seriously concerned about how wet floors or walk in showers cope and last. Also, are wet floors or just tiled floors slippery in use? Do they need more cleaning? - remember one person saying that the wet floor tiles needed cleaning and drying after every shower or they would discolour and/or mould. Really?

Anyone with a walk in shower- does the water not just spray out the open end and generally wet anything in its path?

Underfloor heating maybe a problem if it's 40mm. It would mean a raised step into the bathroom.
m0unt41n on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:
Worth thinking about years ahead when taps / drain / outlet leaks or slow or blocked and you then need to get at some of the plumbing. Because we wanted a low shower basin to avoid smashing our toes on it, I moved the shower slightly so that it was directly above a cupboard in the utility room below and had a ceiling panel cut and screwed back in the cupboard so we could get at the underneath of the shower. Same the bath sides were tiled so had a removable panel that match the size of the tiles. If the under floor heating, electric, goes I'm stuffed since its embedded on plywood with tiles on top.

Main lesson I learnt in the past was to imagine what could go wrong and how would I fix it and therefore how to arrange things to cope.

EDIT - underfloor heating didn't raise the floor much since we replaced the boards with marine ply so same level, then wiring laid which was maybe 5mm and then tiles which is whatever they are its now the same level as the hall which had an underlay and thick carpet.
Post edited at 11:58
ultrabumbly on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

The best tiles I ever encountered were in another country. The whole bathroom was done in them and they had a very slight "nap" to their texture. They weren't in the least bit slippy and I found my feet were bone dry after walking to the door and then the tiles themselves would be dry by the time I was brushing my teeth. They would sometimes get small water marks on them where large splashes dried but that wiped off instantly with a damp mop.

This is what I don't understand about why we are scared of wet rooms in the UK. I know a lot of dutch people who live in apartments converted from the traditional high and narrow houses. They all have wet room type bathrooms and some of them are clearly decades old. I have never heard of a leak (I'm sure they happen occasionally) but the dutch are overly conscientious about not peeing off their neighbours so if this approach didn't work well with quirky architecture on wooden floors I don't understand how they get it to fly there and not here.

On splashback from a shower head. Not much will come out with the right head. I'd imagine this is best when the head is mounted at 90 degrees to where you walk in if not a straight down arrangement. The very best set up I ever had you walked in at the corner.
markAut - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:
Just a few ideas in no particular order...

Take your time. Get several 'designers' to have a look, and look at photos, catalogues for ideas. Build the bathroom to last 10 years. Spec it accordingly.

Underfloor heating is great, it really dries the room. Also, heated mirrors are a luxury, but fantastic if you wet shave.
We had a wall hung bog in the last house and the dust bunnies had nowhere to hide.
A low profile shower tray, or wet floor with a clear glass door makes the room look bigger.

Trim and attention to detail make all the difference. If you are only doing it once, do it right.

Hope this helps.
Timmd on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to markAut:
I've found wiping a soapy hand on my mirror stops it from steaming up if I get the amount of soapy-ness on it right while wet shaving but I like the sound of a heated mirror.
Post edited at 20:20
Neil Williams - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Chris Harris:

> They all are aren't they? Or do some people have their bog installed so it's facing the wall?

Very good

I'd go further than back to wall if you want very easy cleaning - go wall-mounted and box all the pipework in, assuming you can attach a framework to something strong enough, as some wall-mounted bogs are disconcertingly loose.
Yanis Nayu - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Timmd:

> I've found wiping a soapy hand on my mirror stops it from steaming up if I get the amount of soapy-ness on it right while wet shaving but I like the sound of a heated mirror.

That sounds indecent
Dax H - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

I would think long and hard about getting rid of the bath.
I can't stand over bath showers, accident in the making in my opinion and we only have room for a bath or a good sized shower.
We opted for the shower because we use it every day but it would be nice to soak in a bath from time to time.
JJL - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

1. Baths are passe. Go for either a wet room or a BIG walk in cubicle. I'd do the latter TBH.

2. Big tiles. Go for classic (white is good). Adventurous bathrooms will date really fast.

3. As said before, minimise exposed nooks and crannies.

4. Don't do u/floor heating (esp not electric). Electric is expensive to run. Wet is nightmare to fix if goes wrong (esp hard water). Big towel rail is lovely

5. heated mirror is a good plan
Timmd on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to JJL:
Baths can be lovely I think if you're aching and have been out in the cold all day, when I used to do a lot of conservation volunteering and lived somewhere which only had a shower, I sometimes used to long for a bath when I got home. Their enfolding warmth can be a little bit like going to bed. They're not very ecologically friendly but they can be nice.
Post edited at 23:16
Climbing Pieman on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to All:

Lots more to think about, and the likes of a heated mirror I would never have thought about. Thanks for all comments.

I went out to a showroom this afternoon and picked up some brochures. Having never done a bathroom from scratch, I was amazed what is available now, and a huge range of prices!! Lots of choices and decisions to make therefore, and I think another few visits to showrooms needed.

Tonight's thoughts though - I like the idea of wall mounted toilet and basin for ease of cleaning, though a bit concerned about what happens if it goes wrong and is behind tiling which seems to be how they hid the piping, cisterns etc; not convinced about wet floor though don't know why (gut feeling); prefer a shallow tray for shower; would really like a bigger shower, but that would mean loosing the bath. Loosing a bath apparently looses a few thousand off the house value. Heated floor would be a luxury, but nice. Partly will depend on price, and all the plumber said was if off boiler it is expensive!

A great start today of what will take time. Appreciate all the comments.


wintertree - on 10 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

I got one thing right with our new bathroom, one thing wrong and didn't have the funds for something I wanted.

Right - I fitted a "mechanical ventilation heat recovery" fan - this dumps humid, moist air outside whilst keeping the heat inside by having bi-directional flow through a counter-current heat exchanger. It's great. You set the humidity you want and it only ticks over below that. No need for a heated mirror with one of these, and you're not blowing your heated air out of the house.

Wrong - shower - we only use it occasionally. It's got some infernal trap that isn't a U-bend, and it only needs about 3mm of water to evaporate form it to allow stench out of the pipe and into the room. One to watch out for.

No money - I wanted to fit a counter-current heat exchanger to the electric shower (the Recoh-vert - http://shower-save.com/products/recoh-vert.html ) - not to save energy but to get a lot more hot water coming out.

Other random thoughts; we visited a big stone warehouse about 40 miles away and got a great deal on some odds and sods of marble that really made the shower. Bath, shower and crapper came from an online bath retailer, seemed much cheaper and higher quality than high street outlets. Try and find a space for a decent wooden chair - surprisingly useful. Don't forget to think about laundry bins etc.

Edit: We renovated our house from scratch. The only rooms I did plans for "on paper" were the bathroom and kitchen. Spent some time drawing bathroom possibilities on graph paper. Get other people to look at them incase you've done anything dumb (like me).

Post edited at 23:28
Rigid Raider - on 11 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

I did both our bathrooms and I'm so glad we chose Laufen compact wall-hung pans. They are compact and easy to fit and easy to clean around. There's nothing worse than tyring to clean a floor-standing pan with dribbled urine around the bottom; in the end they all get smelly.
Ridge - on 11 Sep 2016
In reply to Dax H:

> I would think long and hard about getting rid of the bath.

> I can't stand over bath showers, accident in the making in my opinion and we only have room for a bath or a good sized shower.

> We opted for the shower because we use it every day but it would be nice to soak in a bath from time to time.

Agreed. A lot of people would be put off buying a house without a bath, which is worth bearing in mind. We were lucky enough to have a bathroom big enough to get a small bath in, as well as a large shower cubicle.

If you go for a shower cubicle, using a good quality shower wall rather than tiles would be my recommendation. The good stuff isn't cheap, but you don't have to worry about grout getting dirty.
markAut - on 11 Sep 2016
In reply to wintertree:

Many thanks!! That heat exchanger may have solved a problem at work. Didn't know such things existed.
jess13 - on 11 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

Beware of some of the fancy designer bathroom furniture eg shallow sinks with flat bottoms- water splashes everywhere and doesn't drain away fast enough leaving a scummy mess. Baths with taps in the middle - when youve cracked your knees on it when you stand up or if you have a shower above the bath you'll realise why the Victorians put the taps at the end ,also if you need to get underneath the tap for repair the bath has to come out. Square toilet pans ('who's got a square arse' - overheard in a showroom) dont always flush properly if it has corners and the seat is expensive if you need to replace it , also make sure the toilet seat fittings are accessible as the bloody things are always coming loose. Make sure the tiler tanks the walls of the shower area (prevents the source of many shower leaks), large porcelain tiles for a smaller grout line and spray with a grout seal.
Toerag - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to gilesf:
> Bear in mind that wet under floor heating will raise floor level by at least 40mm, electric by 30mm.

Electric only raises the level if you want to insulate under it - otherwise the wire fits within the depth of the adhesive.
We fitted it in our kitchen this way - it only gets turned on for the last 15 minutes of cheap economy 7 to take the chill off the tiles.

To the OP - if there are external walls then wediboard under the tiles on those to stop steam condensing on them and black mould growing on the grout.
We've just had our downstairs bathroom done - it's small so we have a 750mm corner shower which I find is a bit tight if you need to bend down in it. We also tiled the floor with long wood-effect tiles - they look just like limed Oak boards, but won't rot like boards will. They're also textured, but we've a mat outside the shower so I don't know how slip resistant they are.

Philip on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

I've just done two bathrooms in my house, and planning the third.

Go for minimum cleaning requirement. Mermaid panels in shower (no grout lines), vinyl flooring (cheap to replace, easy to clean), get branded brassware that can be repaired (eg Grove, Mira). There a company online seeking aluminium mirror cabinets with led lighting and heated glass(no steaming up). Walk in shower, at least 1400x800, no door message less cleaning.

Get a good quality extractor. Check online prices, but at the end of the day try a local firm - they can usually match online prices (most of its controller by the manufacturer) and you get the peace of mind that they will check deliveries for breakages.
marsbar - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

I suggest you specify that you want seperate isolation valves for each tap or valve as far as possible. That way if you have a problem with a leaky shower you can still use the sink and toilet and bath etc.

If you are having a fancy toilet with all the workings in a wall, have an access panel for when the siphon needs replacing. Do not let them tile it all in with no access.

SAF - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

The cottage we bought a year ago came with a 2 year old bathroom (newest addition to the property, so therefore not being changed anytime soon). It has Pvc clad walls, i was a bit snobbish about them from an interior design point initially, but now i think they are great. Easy to clean, no groating to get discoloured/ moldy, and they are warmer to the touch if leant against whilst showering.

olliehales - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

I have recently re done my bathroom.

Went for a steel enamelled bath (preferred the feel of these & for standing in are very rigid), Mira power shower installed at end of bath (can easily service), big tiles (used Mapai primer, adhesive & grout), vinyl floor (wood effect, easy to clean & hardwearing), in line extractor, and electric mirror with built in LED's & heater.

Single small radiator (did consider underfloor electric as I replaced the floor boards but decided against it).

Went for shower curtain on stainless steel rail (company in Reddich make them), due to past experience with glass screens (they always leak!). Curtain can be washed in the machine.

I think if doing again, would have fitted a heated towel rail instead of standard radiator.

This was into a newly plastered room however, which made things much easier (wall was dead flat which made tiling simple).
La benya - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

Make sure you buy a proper sized bog. Nothing worse than you willy hitting the front of the bowl or the water. Toilets with smooth external curves are preferable too from a cleaning stand point.
Also echo people opinions on square design sinks etc. Absolutely useless
Fraser on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

These guys do pretty decent shower panels (instead of wall tiling) with hydrolock joints; I think they're also the folk who do bespoke designs, whereby you can send them a photo which they'll print onto the panel(s):

https://www.wetwall.com/

Climbing Pieman on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:
Appreciate the comments everyone. Again many things I've not thought about including isolation values. Indeed my current shower set up does not have them, so should have worked that out, but didn't. Thanks marsbar.

Did see the square toilet pans at the weekend and thought all style over practicality so immediately got added to my don't want list. Same with basins that are for show -some don't have any plug system to allow water to be held in the basin and some would barely hold enough water to wash your hands in!!

Will check out the walling and flooring suggestions, thanks.

Also thanks to those that mentioned plans - going to get some form of floor plan drawn up as it will be easier to see how things will fit in.

It's all going to take time, but better to take the time now than be rushes/pushed into something that shows up weaknesses and problems later.
ebygomm - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to olliehales:
18 months on we're still choosing the bath screen

Our bathroom renovation documented here, might help decide what you do and don't want!

https://flic.kr/s/aHskegtTdZ

When we were looking I found finding examples of typical UK sized bathrooms difficult to find
Post edited at 14:40
marsbar - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to ebygomm:

I had those pink old tiles too.
nniff - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

From our experience - if the floor is not concrete, make sure you have a shower tray of some description rather than a wet room floor. Underfloor heating is lovely.
ebygomm - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

Everyone knows someone who had chicken tiles
Dave B on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:
Ceramic taps, with the basin one being of a swivel design... That way you can get your head in the basin when you want to wash your hair without clunking your head. Apparently very useful for people who want to dye their hair.
Post edited at 17:07
Climbing Pieman on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to ebygomm:
What make and model is your sink please. Looks good to add to my list. Also who makes the concealed controls for the shower? Think I want concealed ones like that - would make cleaning much easier.

Edit: I hope I'm not still to finish off in 18 maths time! Don't think I can cope with that. I'm long past the stage of diy, fortunately in many ways, and speaking to my plumber I've been told that it should take around two weeks in total. The comment by the plumber about having a porta loo outside though filled me with dread though!
Post edited at 21:16
Climbing Pieman on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Dave B:
Never heard of swivelling ones for a basin. A friend told me their ceramic discs in their taps are starting to leak at just over a year old. Thought they lasted more or less the life of the tap in ignorance.
ebygomm - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:
It's actually an Ikea unit we got from the bargain basement and swapped the handles. All the bathroom places seemed to want £500 quid + for a bit of foil covered particleboard.

The shower control is matki, it also controls the bath which fills via the overflow.

Ours was entirely diy and i work away in the week so took about 6 weeks start to nearly finish
Post edited at 21:20
Cthulhu on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

> I suggest you specify that you want seperate isolation valves for each tap or valve as far as possible. That way if you have a problem with a leaky shower you can still use the sink and toilet and bath etc.

This is a requirement under water regs anyway, so they should be fitting them without prompting. Make sure that they use full-bore iso valves, not the cheap and nasty ones with a 7mm internal bore. Your flow rate will plummet otherwise, the shower will feel pathetic and the bath take ages to fill.

These ones http://www.screwfix.com/p/full-bore-isolating-valve-15mm/46860 rather than these http://www.screwfix.com/p/isolating-valve-15mm-10-pack/32802
marsbar - on 12 Sep 2016
In reply to Dave B:

I just use the shower to rinse when dying my hair.
James Malloch - on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

I've not read through so it may have been said, but make sure everything is accessible.

A friend recently spent a small fortune on a house which then had a problem with some pipe work around the recessed toilet.

The newly installed bathroom had zero way of getting to the pipes without taking the wall down which ended up costing thousands. All because the fitter didn't think to leave any means of access.
alasdair19 on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:

I ve not read the whole thread but some pointers after we did ours

Budget you can spend any amount. if you have space separate bath and shower is v handy. we tiled everywhere it's expensive but with 2 kids worth it for us. I'd get. a Door on a square shower cubicle our clever sliding oval doesn't slide so well now.

you mostly pay for cosmetics how much and how nice no rest of house spec to match. get a combi boiler for a very hot high pressure shower no pump /electric required
ads.ukclimbing.com
Neil Williams - on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to James Malloch:

> The newly installed bathroom had zero way of getting to the pipes without taking the wall down which ended up costing thousands. All because the fitter didn't think to leave any means of access.

Oops ;)

When I did mine, it being my first go at plumbing, I made sure everything was accessible, either by way of hatches (the shower is on a partition rather than a wall, so you can take the back off, and I made a floor hatch in the laminate) or just by keeping pipework above the floor and making it a feature. Though if you dislike the latter for cleaning reasons you can always box it in.
Neil Williams - on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to alasdair19:

> you mostly pay for cosmetics how much and how nice no rest of house spec to match. get a combi boiler for a very hot high pressure shower no pump /electric required

Agreed, combis are wonderful for decent-pressure hot showers. Though beware that some don't like thermostatic shower valves (they effectively fight with each other) - check, and if yours doesn't use a non-thermostatic one. I believe the "modulating" type are happy with them.
Neil Williams - on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to Ridge:
> Agreed. A lot of people would be put off buying a house without a bath, which is worth bearing in mind.

Though you can mitigate that by considering in the design how a bath could be refitted if necessary. But it depends how long you plan to live in your house - if you're likely to sell within 5 years I'd probably say this makes sense. If you're planning to live there for the foreseeable, design your house around how you want to live - you can always make small changes if you can't sell. FWIW these days I think a good quality, stylish, large shower cubicle with a rain shower would be very appealing to certain sectors of the market - I'm not talking cheap 760mm cubicles you get in en-suites on new-builds which are worse than useless as they aren't big enough and fall to bits. 800mm absolute minimum, ideally 900 or even larger.

> If you go for a shower cubicle, using a good quality shower wall rather than tiles would be my recommendation. The good stuff isn't cheap, but you don't have to worry about grout getting dirty.

Agreed. But buy cheap, buy twice. FWIW I used clip-together fake tiles on mine (TileLoc I think), they look good and were easy to install (a friend thought they were real tiles) and no grout issues but they do slightly leak because of capillary action along the joints, and so will probably get replaced when I can be bothered.
Post edited at 09:39
Neil Williams - on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to La benya:

I like square(ish) design sinks, the issue with the bogs is comfort and seat availability. Indeed mine is square which allows it to fit into a smaller space than a round one, unless I only wanted a cloakroom style sink.
Neil Williams - on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to Timmd:
> Baths can be lovely I think if you're aching and have been out in the cold all day, when I used to do a lot of conservation volunteering and lived somewhere which only had a shower, I sometimes used to long for a bath when I got home. Their enfolding warmth can be a little bit like going to bed. They're not very ecologically friendly but they can be nice.

A nice hot high-flow rain shower can be easily as good. If not better, if you're tall and so wouldn't be able to fully immerse yourself in a bath anyway

As I said upthread I haven't had a bath in over 20 years (ha! ), and provided I have a good combi-fed or pumped shower (which I do) and not a hopeless electric over the bath piece of junk I don't miss stewing in my own juice one bit.

If you can't get your "enfolding warmth" from a shower, you need a better one. I never fail to be amazed what kinds of rubbish people will put up with even in an expensive new bathroom. If you want to try them out, modern hotels tend to have really good showers so do some tourism And a good quality shower need not be expensive (though I would encourage people to buy a quality tray e.g. Mira, I got through 3 cheapo ones and didn't get one that wasn't damaged enough I wouldn't have confidence in it).
Post edited at 09:46
Climbing Pieman on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to alasdair19:
Got a new combi last year and it's got a high output. Assuming I get the valves Cthulhu mentioned (thanks) it should be more that enough for most showers.
Climbing Pieman on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to Neil Williams:
My googling suggest rain showers are quite a lot more expensive! Mmm need to think about that. There again as you say buy cheap buy twice so maybe a possibility.
JLS on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to ebygomm:

What's going on with the systern? Looks like the wrong one for the WC?
ebygomm - on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to JLS:

Took three attempts to get a toilet with cistern that fitted!

Part numbers all correct but they didn't fit together
Neil Williams - on 13 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:
Rain shower heads cost about 15 quid a go, I replace mine every time it gets properly cacked up after a couple of cleans (very hard water area). The tube that comes out of the wall cost about a tenner. The mixer is the same as for any other type. If you want a handset as well the plumbing is *slightly* more complicated, but it really wasn't an expensive thing to do at all.
Post edited at 00:21
Toerag - on 14 Sep 2016
In reply to James Malloch:
> I've not read through so it may have been said, but make sure everything is accessible.
> A friend recently spent a small fortune on a house which then had a problem with some pipe work around the recessed toilet.
> The newly installed bathroom had zero way of getting to the pipes without taking the wall down which ended up costing thousands. All because the fitter didn't think to leave any means of access.

If you're running pipework behind wediboard you don't need to leave access hatches - you can simply cut through the grout and wediboard to gain access. Obviously you'll have to work out to re-fit the wediboard tile 'hatch' you've just made and re-grout, so make sure you keep a record of the grout used so you can match it.
Climbing Pieman on 14 Sep 2016
In reply to Neil Williams:
Ah, I was a bit misled in the showroom visit as all theirs started in the hundreds , and afterwards thinking that my google search just confirmed what I was expecting to see. Good to know - searching needed.
Neil Williams - on 14 Sep 2016
In reply to Climbing Pieman:
It does indeed seem expensive to buy an all in one rain shower unit, but making your own by buying separate valve and pipework is far cheaper and looks nicer anyway.

That said, shower stuff can be pricey. I have this valve (square backplate, but it looks the same):

https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/cruze-modern-manual-concealed-shower-valve-chrome?campaign=googl...

and this head and arm (though have replaced the head a few times as they get cacked up with limescale and mould and aren't easily cleaned):

https://victoriaplum.com/product/circular-shower-head-200mm-amp-wall-arm-afh34

total about 75 quid plus a bit of pushfit behind the panel to connect them up.

I know they are known for quality, but 200 quid for this:

https://www.savemoneycutcarbon.com/product/hansgrohe-470mm-chrome-shower-arm/?gclid=CKbBrf2Tj88CFQw8...

seems an almighty rip-off.
Post edited at 16:22
marsbar - on 14 Sep 2016
In reply to Neil Williams:
The hansgrohe stuff isn't cheap, but it will last a lifetime.

I wouldn't use push fit hidden away.
Post edited at 16:53
Neil Williams - on 14 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

It's accessible via the rear panel, the shower is on a partition.
marsbar - on 14 Sep 2016
In reply to Neil Williams:

You won't see if it's leaking immediately though.
Neil Williams - on 14 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:
True, though if it has been done correctly there is no reason it should be any more likely to leak than a compression fitting on copper. Indeed, I've found those a lot *more* likely to leak very slightly (and not just in things I've done). Sure, a copper soldered joint is better still but my skills aren't really up to that.

FWIW 2 years on I have not noticed any leaks at all.

The only concern to me is of the plastic fittings and rubber O-rings having limited life, which is why it is all easily accessible if I do need to. I wouldn't plaster it in, but providing you can get to it I don't see an issue.

But anyway back to the OP's question, a bit of soldered copper would not be any more expensive, it's just harder to do (but if you're paying someone that's their problem, not yours).
Post edited at 21:48
marsbar - on 14 Sep 2016
In reply to Neil Williams:

From what I've seen compression fittings can weep a little, push fit can occasionally and spectacularly come apart. However I don't know the circumstances and it may be down to bad fitting and I'm not an expert.
Neil Williams - on 14 Sep 2016
In reply to marsbar:

Pushfit won't fail spectacularly unless you make a hash of it[1] or it's faulty.

[1] Not push it in hard enough, mainly. This is quite easy to do, you do need to be careful to ensure it is fully seated.
markAut - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to Neil Williams:

We had a builder partially do our kitchen. He didn't bother putting the inserts in the push fit, which was a shame but easily fixed.
For my part I put a fixing clip too close to a T piece and pressure changes from the washing machine inlet caused the collar on the connector to keep hitting the clip. Anyway, the kitchen floor needed mopping and I got a free cold shower. Changed everything to speed fit shortly after which was much better.
Neil Williams - on 19 Sep 2016
In reply to markAut:

> We had a builder partially do our kitchen. He didn't bother putting the inserts in the push fit, which was a shame but easily fixed.

Twit... that error will tend just to make it leak, but can cause complete failure as the pipe compresses more than if there is an insert there.

> For my part I put a fixing clip too close to a T piece and pressure changes from the washing machine inlet caused the collar on the connector to keep hitting the clip. Anyway, the kitchen floor needed mopping and I got a free cold shower. Changed everything to speed fit shortly after which was much better.

Whoops

The system I used was JG Speedfit, I like the way it has the screw-on bit to tighten the fit once you're sure it's right.

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