/ Outdoor first aid and First aid at work issue.

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Bloodfire - on 07 Oct 2016
As a first aider at work (office based) I need to renew my ticket which is free from my employer but is the 'First Aid at Work' certificate.

As an ML I would prefer to have the Outdoor First Aid certificate even though the FAW ticket does suffice.

Does anyone know of a provider that could give both certificates by merging the two courses?

I doubt it exists or that there is enough demand to hold a course like this but you never know.. it's always worth asking.
richprideaux - on 07 Oct 2016
In reply to Bloodfire:

There are a couple of providers who can do FAAW in an outdoor environment, but FAAW is run over a longer period than the standard 16hr outdoor first aid courses and AFAIK the FAAW delivery requirements are so specific it would be difficult to merge the two.

Also worth noting that there is no one 'Outdoor First Aid' course. There are lots of franchised courses (RECetc) that are themselves externally accredited, and lots of self-certificated courses that are run by different providers. They may all be run over 16hrs, have a suitably qualified and experienced trainer delivering them but there is no one standard.
Dax H - on 07 Oct 2016
In reply to Bloodfire:

Speak to your course provider.
My first aid provider knows me through Kayaking and climbing and always tries to incorporate that in with the standard first aid at work course.
kirsten on 07 Oct 2016
In reply to richprideaux:
first aid at work has been cut down to two days without the formal exam now. Don't know about combining the two though. I figure something is better than nothing though .
Post edited at 22:56
richprideaux - on 07 Oct 2016
In reply to kirsten:

When was that? HSE website etc still says 18hrs/3days?
richprideaux - on 07 Oct 2016
In reply to kirsten:

Or are you referring to the 3yr refresher course?
Ron Rees Davies - on 07 Oct 2016
In reply to Bloodfire:

> Does anyone know of a provider that could give both certificates by merging the two courses?
> I doubt it exists

http://pyb.co.uk/courses-detail.php?coursecode=FAC03&irisref=197
MtnGeekUK - on 08 Oct 2016
In reply to Bloodfire:

As above, many outdoor providers are able to do this. I did a course which did exactly what you describe with Alan Ward @ www.bigfootservices.co.uk

Drop him a line - he's always more than happy to talk through options, and course comes highly recommended!
kirsten on 08 Oct 2016
In reply to richprideaux:
Ah, fair point. It was a refresher. My mistake.
Bingers - on 08 Oct 2016
In reply to Bloodfire:

First Aid at Work is still 18 hours over three days for first timers or for where the certificate has gone too far overdue. If you are within your certificate expiry date or within one month of it having expired, you can requalify in 12 hours over two days.

There is a certain standard for the regulated outdoor first aid qualifications e.g. ITC Level 3 Award in Outdoor First Aid or the Scottish equivalent - ITC Certificate in Outdoor First Aid, but most awarding organisations do not do OFA. There are also private providers who print their own certificates, but you would be wise to do your Due Diligence there to ensure that your training provider meets first aid training standards.

The Institute for Outdoor Learning also sets out guidance for outdoor first aid, http://www.outdoor-learning.org/Default.aspx?tabid=346 which is aiming to set a standard across the industry - it would be worth seeing of the training provider is aware of it and if their course meets it.

If you were just to do an FAW Requalification, bear in mind that you will have done only 12 hours rather than the 16 that certain NGB Awards require and that the FAW syllabus does no include drowning, cold/heat issues or children. If they are important for your outdoor requirements, choose carefully.
idiotproof (Buxton MC) - on 08 Oct 2016
In reply to Bingers:

http://www.will4adventure.com/

I got both certs when doing Outdoor First Aid with Will
Baron Weasel - on 09 Oct 2016
In reply to Bloodfire:

When I did my outdoor first aid the trainer made a big point about if you put someone into the recovery (he called it the safe airway) position that their head should be slightly downhill as most outdoor spaces are not level to prevent choking on vomit.
Bingers - on 09 Oct 2016
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

> http://www.will4adventure.com/

> I got both certs when doing Outdoor First Aid with Will

Having seen Will train. I confirm that he would indeed be a good choice. A good first aid trainer and a bona fide outdoor person to boot.
Becky E - on 10 Oct 2016
In reply to Bloodfire:

IIRC there is some crossover in the courses run through Rescue Emergency Care. I'm sure if you contact them they'd be able to tell you what's what.
Will Legon - on 10 Oct 2016
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):

Thanks for the mention. Yes - the SQA accredited course I run allows for dual assessment and certification of Outdoor First Aid and the Emergency First Aid at Work all in one hit.

Will
Will Legon - on 10 Oct 2016
In reply to Bloodfire:

Couple of things to note - if you requalify your First Aid at Work with a 2 day refresher then this 12 hour course won't technically cover your ML award which needs 16 hours of training. It might be that if you can show your employer the sylabus of the OFA that they will be happy for that to cover their needs for your training, and at two days it's cheaper for them than losing you for three days. Finally as has been mentioned above if you join an ITC 16 hour course that is accredited by the Scottish Qualifications Authority (SQA) you can be assessed for and certificated for both your OFA and EFAW. And note, not all ITC centres offer this! (We do however! More details here: http://www.will4adventure.com/courses/outdoor-first-aid)

Will
Hillwalker - on 17 Oct 2016
In reply to Bloodfire:
Since the change in legislation in respect of First Aid in the Workplace (2013) there is no reason why your employer cannot accept the 16 hour Outdoor First Aid course certification for the purposes of First Aid in the workplace. This is acceptable (in place of the First Aid at Work certificate) so long as the employer, having undertaken an obligatory risk assessment is satisfied that the content meets the identified risks in their specific workplace, and is delivered by accredited providers.

As has been stated above, the Outdoor First Aid course (ITC) is delivered by accredited providers and one of the two units of learning is the 6 hour Emergency First Aid at Work course, so completion of the ITC Outdoor First Aid course allows the candidate to also hold an Emergency First Aid at Work certificate.

The full certificate states and specifies that it includes Unit One, (Emergency First Aid at Work). The respondent who says there is no 'standard' Outdoor First Aid course is not entirely correct, the course accredited by any given Awarding Body is standardised across all providers whose course is accredited/certificated by that Awarding Body (i.e.: ITC First). It may well vary between Awarding Bodies.

It is incorrect to say (kirsten) that the FAW has been reduced to two days, it is still 18 hours, (the refresher is two days/12 hours). There are no longer examinations in the FAW. Even when it was 3 days/18 hours the third day was almost exclusively set aside to practice the exam scenarios and for the exams themselves, so the 16 hour Outdoor First Aid course actually has more content and learning than the three day course had.

If you are up North look at Lancashire First Aid Training Ltd website.
Post edited at 20:24
1
richprideaux - on 17 Oct 2016
In reply to Hillwalker:


> The full certificate states and specifies that it includes Unit One, (Emergency First Aid at Work). The respondent who says there is no 'standard' Outdoor First Aid course is not entirely correct, the course accredited by any given Awarding Body is standardised across all providers whose course is accredited/certificated by that Awarding Body (i.e.: ITC First). It may well vary between Awarding Bodies.

Standard as in 'industry standard'. As you say, each awarding body/franchise will require a minimum standard of the courses delivered within their scheme and there will be equivalency across all courses within that scheme. But there is no one official 'outdoor first aid course' syllabus - but REC, the other REC, ITC and others are all pretty much the same so it doesn't matter who you pick. 16hrs, outdoor-relevant and 3-year certificate seems to be the baseline across different NGB awards.

Go for the best trainer, someone who has firsthand knowledge of delivering first aid (not regurgitated and garbled accounts that their trainer told them) and most will be fine.

I do know some providers of the above schemes in North Wales who have consistently displayed a shocking lack of knowledge and experience when called on to actually deal with an incident, or quite happily perpetuate myths because they can't be arsed to change their own notes. One was so bad that after a course I wrote to the awarding body, and got a phone call as a reply saying that it was unfortunate, but "they aren't running many courses per year so we'll let them off on this one"...

ads.ukclimbing.com
Hillwalker - on 18 Oct 2016
In reply to richprideaux:

Broadly agree with your comments, there are always good and not so good in every walk of life. A good Awarding Body inspects providers for quality and standards regularly, including unannounced inspection visits to courses, demands evidence of CPD and takes feedback from customers seriously.

My advice would be to look very carefully at a prospective provider's profile online and wherever you can find evidence, inspect it and ask yourself questions about the experience, background and knowledge they are likely to have. Most useful of all is word of mouth from others who have used them.

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