/ Illegal arrest

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bleddynmawr - on 13 Oct 2016
A family group went to Belgium for a long weekend. On the Saturday night a few drinks were consumed, tempers flared, and there was a bit of pushing and shoving between myself and an in-law. The rest of the family intervened, no punches were thrown, and things were a bit frosty but we all came home together.
The day after getting home I was visited by two police officers who had been told by the other party that I had assaulted him. I told them that I hadn't and that anyway they had no jurisdiction to investigate alleged crimes in Belgium. The police officer said "interesting point, you'll have to talk to your solicitor about that and arrested me anyway. Eight hours in a cell waiting for a solicitor who, took about 5 minutes to obtain my release after pointing out the jurisdiction issue.Then a 20 cab fare home as the police don't have an obligation to return me to where they took me from.
The police were very pleasant and treated me well but I still feel that my arrest was illegal, and unwarranted as I would have attended voluntarily to talk with them. Am I right to feel aggrieved, should i Complain or take action?
5
stubbed on 13 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:

I think I would feel aggrieved with the family member rather than the police
3
Sir Chasm - on 13 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:

You could chalk it up to experience and try to be less aggressive when you've drunk too much.
9
MonkeyPuzzle - on 13 Oct 2016
In reply to stubbed:

I'd be pissed off with both.

Your in-law doesn't have any mates in the police by any chance?
3
subtle on 13 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:

> A family group went to Belgium for a long weekend. On the Saturday night a few drinks were consumed, tempers flared, and there was a bit of pushing and shoving between myself and an in-law. The rest of the family intervened, no punches were thrown, and things were a bit frosty but we all came home together.

Ah, the delights of a family beano!

Future family get togethers will no doubt be even frostier now - next time you see the inlaw just get it over with and lamp them at the off, stops the feeling of awkwardness spoiling the whole day
MonkeyPuzzle - on 13 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:

Hang on a minute - are you Mike Hookem?
Lusk - on 13 Oct 2016
In reply to subtle:

> Ah, the delights of a family beano!

> .... and lamp them at the off ...

I would absolutely love to do that to one my BiLs!
Can't stand my wife's family, except one, biggest bunch of pretentious pricks you've ever met.
As I say to her now and again, I married you, not your family.
Morty - on 13 Oct 2016
In reply to Lusk:

> I would absolutely love to do that to one my BiLs!

> Can't stand my wife's family, except one, biggest bunch of pretentious pricks you've ever met.

> As I say to her now and again, I married you, not your family.

Amen to that, brother.
Ridge - on 13 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:

At a guess, and I'm not a lawyer, the police have a duty to investigate if a complaint was made. Taking it to extremes, if you'd been accused of murder in Belgium, would you expect the police to shrug and say 'nothing to do with us'?
1
JEF on 13 Oct 2016
In reply to subtle:

> Ah, the delights of a family beano!

> Future family get togethers will no doubt be even frostier now - next time you see the inlaw just get it over with and lamp them at the off, stops the feeling of awkwardness spoiling the whole day

Dressed as a clown of course.
off-duty - on 14 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:
>The police were very pleasant and treated me well but I still feel that my arrest was illegal, and unwarranted as I would have attended voluntarily to talk with them. Am I right to feel aggrieved, should i Complain or take action?

Was your arrest illegal? Maybe. It depends on exactly what your in-law might have alleged and what you were arrested for. May have some bearing if you have been bailed or told that the matter has been NFA'd or finalised.

As for unwarranted - PACE code G describes the necessity test required for arrest. I would be surprised if they haven't considered that, and the possibility of arranging a voluntary interview. My guess would be that thus appears to fall in the area of a domestic incident so they will want to take positive action and I can think of a number of Code G reasons that might apply.

If you want to complain - ask for the duty Inspector.

Should you feel aggrieved? Possibly - but shouldn't that be directed at your in-laws for making a possibly frivolous complaint, or at yourself for allowing yourself to be drawn into violence.

The cops appear to have, as is not unusual, been used as tools in some sort of family dispute, with the added twist that this specific domestic fracas occurred abroad.
3
Dave Perry - on 14 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:

Personally I'd wished the Belgian police had given you a good thumping, locked you up then sent you home. People like you give others a bad impression. Belgium is going to be the next Benidorm/costa/ibeza. And the captain on the ferry should have made the lot of you do a Lord Lucan.

Illegal arrest indeed!!
6
winhill - on 14 Oct 2016
In reply to off-duty:

> Was your arrest illegal? Maybe. It depends on exactly what your in-law might have alleged and what you were arrested for.

The only powers of arrest available to the Police are for those offences where extra-territorial jurisdiction has been granted by Statute, murder, terrorism, trafficking etc, there is no general power of arrest for offences committed abroad.

From the OP this appears to be the reason behind his release, which makes it sound like the possible charges would not have been sufficient arrest.

Pick one from this list:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmquad/419/41920.htm

> The cops appear to have, as is not unusual, been used as tools in some sort of family dispute, with the added twist that this specific domestic fracas occurred abroad.

Yes, the Police are the real victim here, telling the relative they had no power of arrest would clearly be too onerous.
4
guy xavier percival - on 14 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:

It might be worth pursuing. What information did the police have? They need reasonable suspicion to arrest for an offence. The necessity test has to be satisfied. If it was clear to them that the incident happened abroad then you may have a claim. Maybe 1000 for the initial arrest and 100 per hour thereafter. If you have convictions then being arrested would be less emotionally distressing and you would not be entitled to as much.
5
biped - on 14 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:

I'll save a link to this thread for future trotting out whenever anyone starts a thread asking why the continentals don't like us.
3
off-duty - on 14 Oct 2016
In reply to winhill:

I didn't realise the OP had given full details of the allegations made by his in law and the offence for which he was arrested. Perhaps you could highlight that information.

As I said the arrest might be illegal. In which case - as I indicated he could complain to the duty Inspector.
The original cops might well have done things wrong and should have advised the in law not that they have no power of arrest, but that it was not a UK legal matter, and either taken a statement or sent him directly to the Belgian police.

It's also possible that the allegation concerns a course of conduct within the UK which involved the assault abroad, or post-assault concerns.

As this all falls under the terms of a "domestic" there is quite reasonably pressure to ensure that complainants are not just told to "Go away" without a good rationale - or we get a host of victims and pressure groups complaining about cops ignoring/disbelieving/failing victims of domestic violence.
5
Chris Harris - on 14 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:

Have the in-law arrested for wasting Police time.

And learn to take your ale.

1
rogerwebb - on 14 Oct 2016
In reply to off-duty

> The cops appear to have, as is not unusual, been used as tools in some sort of family dispute

So very true, and then at trial the witnesses don't show.......

Bring back discretion!

Jimbocz - on 17 Oct 2016
In reply to bleddynmawr:
The good news is that you never have to see any of them again. If they actually did call the cops over something as silly as you describe, you are well within your rights to refuse to participate in anything having to do with that family ever again. Just let your wife go visit them if she likes.

I also think you have the right to refuse for any of them to visit here, except for the ones you like.

Post edited at 13:02
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Mark Westerman - on 17 Oct 2016
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> Hang on a minute - are you Mike Hookem?

nah, its Ronnie Pickering i reckon

cheers
mark

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