This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
I was a locum tenens at the time that the M25 opened. I happened to be working in Kingston upon Thames and remember trying to persuade a woman in her 50's to use it as it would be quicker to go out to it, round and back in to her destination due to swifter movement on the motorway. She said that she would not use it as it was further to go. She would rather queue on the small roads that took her there by a shorter route,but take longer.
I had driven on it and found it like a large race track like Indianapolis during practice, as there were very few cars on it. It was brilliant, and I told everybody about it-which was probably its downfall. Most likely everyone who drove on it was chuffed and told another 50 people about it.
Eventually it filled up until it has got to its present state where most people dread going on it for the problems of feeling that you are being watched by gantry speed cameras, stress of having to drive too close at speed if you are lucky, or just moving at parking speed. The only time to drive on it is late at night.
When was the last time that someone tried to do the whole circuit in double quick time?
I had driven on it and found it like a large race track like Indianapolis during practice, as there were very few cars on it. It was brilliant, and I told everybody about it-which was probably its downfall. Most likely everyone who drove on it was chuffed and told another 50 people about it.
Eventually it filled up until it has got to its present state where most people dread going on it for the problems of feeling that you are being watched by gantry speed cameras, stress of having to drive too close at speed if you are lucky, or just moving at parking speed. The only time to drive on it is late at night.
When was the last time that someone tried to do the whole circuit in double quick time?
3
In reply to veteye:
Double quick time! That's a good one!
If you try to do the whole circuit on Friday at about 6 PM, my estimate is 5 hours. On the only late Friday afternoon I drove onto it, I was about 4 hours late reaching my destination up north, no kidding FOUR HOURS, never again.
I've spent much time on the lovely M25, and I estimate that I swear more often per mile on it than on any other road (not at other drivers - at circumstances).
> ....When was the last time that someone tried to do the whole circuit in double quick time?
Double quick time! That's a good one!
If you try to do the whole circuit on Friday at about 6 PM, my estimate is 5 hours. On the only late Friday afternoon I drove onto it, I was about 4 hours late reaching my destination up north, no kidding FOUR HOURS, never again.
I've spent much time on the lovely M25, and I estimate that I swear more often per mile on it than on any other road (not at other drivers - at circumstances).
1
In reply to veteye:
It definitely is borderline now which is quicker. I use it 1-2 times a week for a fairly short drive. Probably 40% of the time its quicker to use the backroads instead.
> She would rather queue on the small roads that took her there by a shorter route,but take longer.
It definitely is borderline now which is quicker. I use it 1-2 times a week for a fairly short drive. Probably 40% of the time its quicker to use the backroads instead.
In reply to veteye
Why did you tell everyone about it? We could still have it to ourselves!
I would love to do a lap at about 3am in a Le Mans type car for a decent lap time. I think it's 111 miles. About 40 mins possible?
> I had driven on it and found it like a large race track like Indianapolis during practice, as there were very few cars on it. It was brilliant, and I told everybody about it-which was probably its downfall
> When was the last time that someone tried to do the whole circuit in double quick time?
> When was the last time that someone tried to do the whole circuit in double quick time?
Why did you tell everyone about it? We could still have it to ourselves!
I would love to do a lap at about 3am in a Le Mans type car for a decent lap time. I think it's 111 miles. About 40 mins possible?
1
In reply to veteye:
I used it to chase around Hertfordshire looking for fields full of ravers. At 1am there were no traffic issues, the cops were all arguing with promoters about noise abatement and the services were going right off with wide-eyed clubbers.
The band is called Orbital for a reason
I used it to chase around Hertfordshire looking for fields full of ravers. At 1am there were no traffic issues, the cops were all arguing with promoters about noise abatement and the services were going right off with wide-eyed clubbers.
The band is called Orbital for a reason
Post edited at 08:42
2
In reply to veteye:
I remember hearing rumours of people doing Sub 1hour laps of the m25 but I was a teenager and believe any old bo**ocks (although your only have to be doing about 100mph all the way so believable before every inch of it had cameras.
There's a video on YouTube of a guy going round the Paris peripherique in about 11 minutes and it's terrifying!
I remember hearing rumours of people doing Sub 1hour laps of the m25 but I was a teenager and believe any old bo**ocks (although your only have to be doing about 100mph all the way so believable before every inch of it had cameras.
There's a video on YouTube of a guy going round the Paris peripherique in about 11 minutes and it's terrifying!
In reply to veteye:
People like to moan about the M25 but it really is a godsend. Imagine if we didn't have it.
I spent the first few years of climbing using it every weekend to go from Sutton to wherever was dry. Quite often for the day. It would have been a nightmare without it.
I love you M25.
People like to moan about the M25 but it really is a godsend. Imagine if we didn't have it.
I spent the first few years of climbing using it every weekend to go from Sutton to wherever was dry. Quite often for the day. It would have been a nightmare without it.
I love you M25.
In reply to deacon deacon;
Can I believe that you are saying that?
I know that it is nevertheless practical,but love...?
> I love you M25.
Can I believe that you are saying that?
I know that it is nevertheless practical,but love...?
In reply to veteye:
What was needed was a motorway that actually by passed London so long distance travelers fom north, south, east or west could avoid central London.
What we got was a ring road used by all for often short journeys hence it always being busy.
The M25 should have about 4 on/off junctions and local short distance traffic would be prevented from using the motorway.
What was needed was a motorway that actually by passed London so long distance travelers fom north, south, east or west could avoid central London.
What we got was a ring road used by all for often short journeys hence it always being busy.
The M25 should have about 4 on/off junctions and local short distance traffic would be prevented from using the motorway.
4
3
In reply to baron:
Haha. So all the locals affected by the building of the road would have seen none of the benefits?
Haha. So all the locals affected by the building of the road would have seen none of the benefits?
3
1
4
In reply to deacondeacon:
Yep!
Isn't that often the case with large infrastructure projects?
Doesn't make it fair of course.
Yep!
Isn't that often the case with large infrastructure projects?
Doesn't make it fair of course.
1
1
In reply to coinneach:
1. Do the locals not fly then?
2. Do you know how many people that live locally work at the airport?
1. Do the locals not fly then?
2. Do you know how many people that live locally work at the airport?
1
In reply to baron:
Something in between the two would have been good. Thatcher regarded the M25 as a huge British success story but part of the reason she over sold it was that everyone who knew about traffic volumes was predicting that it would become snarled within years and simply wasn't the solution she was claiming.
Tory Horace Cutler was leader of the GLC, very much the Boris Johnson of his time and a huge M25 lobbyist. When the western part of the route was announced in 1982 he found out it went through his garden.
> What was needed was a motorway that actually by passed London so long distance travelers fom north, south, east or west could avoid central London.
Something in between the two would have been good. Thatcher regarded the M25 as a huge British success story but part of the reason she over sold it was that everyone who knew about traffic volumes was predicting that it would become snarled within years and simply wasn't the solution she was claiming.
Tory Horace Cutler was leader of the GLC, very much the Boris Johnson of his time and a huge M25 lobbyist. When the western part of the route was announced in 1982 he found out it went through his garden.
1
In reply to baron:
But the flaw in your argument is that even Londoners want to avoid central London.
> What was needed was a motorway that actually by passed London so long distance travelers fom north, south, east or west could avoid central London.
But the flaw in your argument is that even Londoners want to avoid central London.
In reply to Indy:
Indeed. Didn't they have ring roads for this? I remember driving through London pre M25 days, even at night it was busy, busy, busy.
Indeed. Didn't they have ring roads for this? I remember driving through London pre M25 days, even at night it was busy, busy, busy.
In reply to baron:
Yes, you can blame the anti-car lobby for London's lack of and terrible 'ring roads' like the South Circular.
> Didn't they have ring roads for this?
Yes, you can blame the anti-car lobby for London's lack of and terrible 'ring roads' like the South Circular.
1
1
In reply to Indy:
Yes, the south circular. Gosh, that brings back memories. Pre sat nav, road atlas balanced on knees, peering through fogged up windows as squeaky wipers tried to clear the rain and tired eyes dazzled by street lights shining through the dirty windscreen. And all this with a crazed local driving 3 inches from the back bumper.
Maybe the M25 isn't so bad after all.
Yes, the south circular. Gosh, that brings back memories. Pre sat nav, road atlas balanced on knees, peering through fogged up windows as squeaky wipers tried to clear the rain and tired eyes dazzled by street lights shining through the dirty windscreen. And all this with a crazed local driving 3 inches from the back bumper.
Maybe the M25 isn't so bad after all.
1
In reply to abseil:
There is also some terrible drivers on it. I don't think people understand that lanes are for overtaking not just cruising along in at 55
There is also some terrible drivers on it. I don't think people understand that lanes are for overtaking not just cruising along in at 55
1
In reply to baron:
That's right, but I still think it'd be better with 6 or 8 lanes in each direction.
> ...Maybe the M25 isn't so bad after all.
That's right, but I still think it'd be better with 6 or 8 lanes in each direction.
In reply to abseil:
I'd love to see that.
Imagine the fun watching people trying to enter and leave at junctions.
How would the middle lane hoggers know which lane to sit in?
Much entertainment all round!
I'd love to see that.
Imagine the fun watching people trying to enter and leave at junctions.
How would the middle lane hoggers know which lane to sit in?
Much entertainment all round!
In reply to baron:
Next will be to make M25 on two levels, one on top of the other. One for longer journeys, one for a few junctions of travel.
Next will be to make M25 on two levels, one on top of the other. One for longer journeys, one for a few junctions of travel.
3
In reply to abseil:
But this is proven not to work. You only have to drive through a major American city like Chicago or Atlanta, both much smaller cities in terms of population than London and you see that 8 or 10 lane highways don't increase the flow of traffic.
https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/
The 'induced demand' hypothesis seems very similar to what the OP explained happening.
My second job back in the late 90s was in High Wycombe and my girlfriend at the time was at uni in Brighton so most Friday afternoons I would have the pleasure of driving down the M40, the SW part of the M25 past Heathrow until hitting the M23 and it was without fail carnage. I would often spend an hour watching the planes coming in to land over the motorway and looking for side roads (this was pre-GPS days) was pretty fruitless.
> That's right, but I still think it'd be better with 6 or 8 lanes in each direction.
But this is proven not to work. You only have to drive through a major American city like Chicago or Atlanta, both much smaller cities in terms of population than London and you see that 8 or 10 lane highways don't increase the flow of traffic.
https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/
The 'induced demand' hypothesis seems very similar to what the OP explained happening.
My second job back in the late 90s was in High Wycombe and my girlfriend at the time was at uni in Brighton so most Friday afternoons I would have the pleasure of driving down the M40, the SW part of the M25 past Heathrow until hitting the M23 and it was without fail carnage. I would often spend an hour watching the planes coming in to land over the motorway and looking for side roads (this was pre-GPS days) was pretty fruitless.
In reply to yorkshireman:
Women hey!
> My second job back in the late 90s was in High Wycombe and my girlfriend at the time was at uni in Brighton so most Friday afternoons I would have the pleasure of driving down the M40, the SW part of the M25 past Heathrow until hitting the M23 and it was without fail carnage. I would often spend an hour watching the planes coming in to land over the motorway and looking for side roads (this was pre-GPS days) was pretty fruitless.
Women hey!
In reply to veteye:
'Very few people on the face of the planet know that the very shape
of the M25 forms the sigil *odegra* in the language of the Black Priesthood
of Ancient Mu, and means 'Hail the Great Beast, Devourer of Worlds'
'Very few people on the face of the planet know that the very shape
of the M25 forms the sigil *odegra* in the language of the Black Priesthood
of Ancient Mu, and means 'Hail the Great Beast, Devourer of Worlds'
1
In reply to veteye:
I did cycle on the M25 in Hertfordshire before it opened to motor traffic.
I later used to go from Cambridge to Harrisons Rocks for an evening climbing when the Dartford tunnel first opened.
And the M11 lacked speed cameras and I had a BMW.
But just before the whole m25 ring joined up, there were some nasty bits of A25 and the road down the Darenth valley where an old A-road was taking motorway levels of traffic. The roundabout with the duckpond in the middle at Otford was particularly dramatic.
My sons got their motorway driving practise on the M25 in rush hour, on the basis that if they could do that they could do anything.
I did cycle on the M25 in Hertfordshire before it opened to motor traffic.
I later used to go from Cambridge to Harrisons Rocks for an evening climbing when the Dartford tunnel first opened.
And the M11 lacked speed cameras and I had a BMW.
But just before the whole m25 ring joined up, there were some nasty bits of A25 and the road down the Darenth valley where an old A-road was taking motorway levels of traffic. The roundabout with the duckpond in the middle at Otford was particularly dramatic.
My sons got their motorway driving practise on the M25 in rush hour, on the basis that if they could do that they could do anything.
In reply to hedgepig:
Maybe one day per year, possibly on Christmas day or the bank holiday to account for Boxing day, they could close the M25 and have a circular bike race. I suppose that the race team cars would have to keep up with lots of spare wheels to replace the punctured tyre wheels, or there would have to be a bloody good sweep of the whole road.
Then on another day it could be a true Indy car circuit. No use of super soft tyres then.
Maybe one day per year, possibly on Christmas day or the bank holiday to account for Boxing day, they could close the M25 and have a circular bike race. I suppose that the race team cars would have to keep up with lots of spare wheels to replace the punctured tyre wheels, or there would have to be a bloody good sweep of the whole road.
Then on another day it could be a true Indy car circuit. No use of super soft tyres then.
In reply to veteye:
I just read the title as 25 years on the M25! It got me wondering if you couldn't find an exit and maybe you were going the wrong way round........
I just read the title as 25 years on the M25! It got me wondering if you couldn't find an exit and maybe you were going the wrong way round........
In reply to Trangia:
One must have done something pretty bad to be sentenced to 25 years on the M25. The ultimate purgatory.
Or should your time on the M25 be seen as a time when you can reflect on difficult questions, as you know that you are going to be there for some time.
One must have done something pretty bad to be sentenced to 25 years on the M25. The ultimate purgatory.
Or should your time on the M25 be seen as a time when you can reflect on difficult questions, as you know that you are going to be there for some time.
In reply to hedgepig:
Being picky technically it isnt a whole ring today.
Couldnt you just pop down the local carpark?
> But just before the whole m25 ring joined up
Being picky technically it isnt a whole ring today.
> My sons got their motorway driving practise on the M25 in rush hour, on the basis that if they could do that they could do anything.
Couldnt you just pop down the local carpark?
In reply to elliott92:
I'm very strict about lane discipline on every other motorway, but I think it just doesn't matter on the M25. Flame me if you like, but I regularly cruise in the middle lane or pass people on the left. Most of the time traffic is moving so slow it's impossible to apply normal motorway rules.
> There is also some terrible drivers on it. I don't think people understand that lanes are for overtaking not just cruising along in at 55
I'm very strict about lane discipline on every other motorway, but I think it just doesn't matter on the M25. Flame me if you like, but I regularly cruise in the middle lane or pass people on the left. Most of the time traffic is moving so slow it's impossible to apply normal motorway rules.
Post edited at 11:43
1
1
In reply to abseil:
Try getting stuck behind a slow tourist or lorry in mid Wales
> I've spent much time on the lovely M25, and I estimate that I swear more often per mile on it than on any other road (not at other drivers - at circumstances).
Try getting stuck behind a slow tourist or lorry in mid Wales
1
1
In reply to veteye:
This guy went round and round for 30hrs! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2074156/Lost-pensioner-Dennis-Leigh...
In the 80s there were tales of yuppies in their 911s trying to do a late night lap in under an hour. An ex racing driver I vaugely know took a 1950s testa rossa round in the hour (& also drove from Belper in Derbyshire down to Swiss Cottage in 66 mins in an original GT40 - a steady 200 down the M1 apparently)
This guy went round and round for 30hrs! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2074156/Lost-pensioner-Dennis-Leigh...
In the 80s there were tales of yuppies in their 911s trying to do a late night lap in under an hour. An ex racing driver I vaugely know took a 1950s testa rossa round in the hour (& also drove from Belper in Derbyshire down to Swiss Cottage in 66 mins in an original GT40 - a steady 200 down the M1 apparently)
In reply to blurty:
Here's Bill Drummond going round for 25 hours:
http://www.gimpogimpo.com/m25spin/1997/
"Everything looks normal. I've seen it all before. The North Downs, the Surrey Woods, the Plains of Heathrow, up round the top M1 junctions, St Albans Cathedral in the distance, back down through Essex. All boringly familiar. But we know the further we go, the less familiar it will all become. We will begin to see things not seen before, discover new meaning in the signposts. The lie of the land. Lost tribes."
Here's Bill Drummond going round for 25 hours:
http://www.gimpogimpo.com/m25spin/1997/
"Everything looks normal. I've seen it all before. The North Downs, the Surrey Woods, the Plains of Heathrow, up round the top M1 junctions, St Albans Cathedral in the distance, back down through Essex. All boringly familiar. But we know the further we go, the less familiar it will all become. We will begin to see things not seen before, discover new meaning in the signposts. The lie of the land. Lost tribes."
In reply to Jimbocz:
Dont feel bad. It does specifically ask you to cruise in the middle lane with nice signs "Congestion. Stay in lane."
Doesn't apply when not busy, obviously.
Dont feel bad. It does specifically ask you to cruise in the middle lane with nice signs "Congestion. Stay in lane."
Doesn't apply when not busy, obviously.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Fri Night Vid Finding Focus - Life Behind The Lens of a Climbing Photographer
This week's Friday Night Video is a portrait of a prolific climbing photographer from Wedge Climbing. Sam Pratt is well known in both the outdoor and competition scene but if you haven't heard of him, you've likely seen...
26 Apr
Loading Notifications...