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Extraordinarily, it seems that a physically unattractive, alcoholic, public school ex-City chancer with a paranoid obsession about Europe seems to have wreaked more permanent, constitutional, political and economic damage than Mosley ever managed.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Disappointed. Thought this was going to be a link to one of these celebrity death match things on YouTube, or the like...
Disappointed. Thought this was going to be a link to one of these celebrity death match things on YouTube, or the like...
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In reply to pec:
If you have no interest in your future, or the future of your children/grandchildren, that's fine - that's your right. Whether they thank you or not in the future, or whether you are too simple to care, well that's your call as well.
But for some of us who can, you know, read stuff, and know a bit of history, and see a potentially very troubled future for our children and grandchildren (think Germany in the 30's; Saudi Arabia, dear God, the US elections, Aleppo)... well just f*ck off, why don't you.
If you have no interest in your future, or the future of your children/grandchildren, that's fine - that's your right. Whether they thank you or not in the future, or whether you are too simple to care, well that's your call as well.
But for some of us who can, you know, read stuff, and know a bit of history, and see a potentially very troubled future for our children and grandchildren (think Germany in the 30's; Saudi Arabia, dear God, the US elections, Aleppo)... well just f*ck off, why don't you.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Extraordinarily, it seems that a physically unattractive, alcoholic, public school ex-City chancer with a paranoid obsession about Europe seems to have wreaked more permanent, constitutional, political and economic damage than Mosley ever managed.
I voted Remain and I can't see how you can possibly blame Farage for what has happened.
If you want to 'blame' anyone, then blame the actual people that voted Leave and perhaps those that didn't vote at all.
Extraordinarily, it seems that a physically unattractive, alcoholic, public school ex-City chancer with a paranoid obsession about Europe seems to have wreaked more permanent, constitutional, political and economic damage than Mosley ever managed.
I voted Remain and I can't see how you can possibly blame Farage for what has happened.
If you want to 'blame' anyone, then blame the actual people that voted Leave and perhaps those that didn't vote at all.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Why do you suppose I have no interest in the future?
Oh, I get it, you're one of the self appointed guardians of the moral highground, clearly your moral and intellectual superiority gives you an insight into the future beyond the mental capacity of a swivel eyed loon such as myself.
Or perhaps I'm as well read, well informed and abreast of the pressing issues of our day as yourself but just happen to disagree with your analysis?
Or perhaps I'm bored with the incessant smug and utterly tiresome parody of those who don't happen to share your idolatry of all things EU that you and your ilk constantly peddle out.
But go on, help me out here. Explain how the EU's response to the war in Syria and the ensuing migrant crisis has shown the sort of moral courage and leadership otherwise lacking in the world. Tell me how its response has mitigated the suffering and how its plan has brought a successful and speedy resolution to the conflict that bit nearer.
Is it modelled on its ever so successful intervention in Balkans War perhaps?
> If you have no interest in your future, or the future of your children/grandchildren, that's fine - that's your right. Whether they thank you or not in the future, or whether you are too simple to care, well that's your call as well.
> But for some of us who can, you know, read stuff, and know a bit of history, and see a potentially very troubled future for our children and grandchildren (think Germany in the 30's; Saudi Arabia, dear God, the US elections, Aleppo)... well just f*ck off, why don't you. >
Why do you suppose I have no interest in the future?
Oh, I get it, you're one of the self appointed guardians of the moral highground, clearly your moral and intellectual superiority gives you an insight into the future beyond the mental capacity of a swivel eyed loon such as myself.
Or perhaps I'm as well read, well informed and abreast of the pressing issues of our day as yourself but just happen to disagree with your analysis?
Or perhaps I'm bored with the incessant smug and utterly tiresome parody of those who don't happen to share your idolatry of all things EU that you and your ilk constantly peddle out.
But go on, help me out here. Explain how the EU's response to the war in Syria and the ensuing migrant crisis has shown the sort of moral courage and leadership otherwise lacking in the world. Tell me how its response has mitigated the suffering and how its plan has brought a successful and speedy resolution to the conflict that bit nearer.
Is it modelled on its ever so successful intervention in Balkans War perhaps?
Post edited at 21:20
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Here's Gina handing back Nigel his arse:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37888849
Here's Gina handing back Nigel his arse:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37888849
Post edited at 21:23
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In reply to pec:
I think you should maybe read Rob's reply? I think you GOT told to "just f*ck off, why don't you."
TBF, your second response was slightly more worthy of respect.
> What did I get? I'm not aware I got anything.
I think you should maybe read Rob's reply? I think you GOT told to "just f*ck off, why don't you."
TBF, your second response was slightly more worthy of respect.
Post edited at 21:35
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In reply to Hugh J:
Ah, I see. I deserved to be told to "f*ck off" by a whinging old lefty who doesn't like that some people might find his peurile parodies and alarmist predictions to be tedious.
Fair enough, guilty as charged.
> I think you should maybe read Rob's reply? I think you GOT told to "just f*ck off, why don't you." >
Ah, I see. I deserved to be told to "f*ck off" by a whinging old lefty who doesn't like that some people might find his peurile parodies and alarmist predictions to be tedious.
Fair enough, guilty as charged.
> TBF, your second response was slightly more worthy of respect. >
Thanks
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In reply to pec>
Angela Merkel
Tell me how its response has mitigated the suffering
By letting in best part of a million refugees.
and how its plan has brought a successful and speedy resolution to the conflict that bit nearer.
Is this the job of the EU?
It stopped the war, or am I wrong. The better accusation is that it started it.
> But go on, help me out here. Explain how the EU's response to the war in Syria and the ensuing migrant crisis has shown the sort of moral courage and leadership otherwise lacking in the world.
Angela Merkel
Tell me how its response has mitigated the suffering
By letting in best part of a million refugees.
and how its plan has brought a successful and speedy resolution to the conflict that bit nearer.
Is this the job of the EU?
> Is it modelled on its ever so successful intervention in Balkans War perhaps?
It stopped the war, or am I wrong. The better accusation is that it started it.
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In reply to Hugh J:
he really is an atrocious bullying twerp. Gina Miller is calm and dignified and wipes the floor with him in her arguments, Farage just tries to talk over her and constantly interrupts.
he really is an atrocious bullying twerp. Gina Miller is calm and dignified and wipes the floor with him in her arguments, Farage just tries to talk over her and constantly interrupts.
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In reply to FactorXXX:
Without Farage there would have been no threat to the Tories, and Cameron would not have felt forced to hold a referendum.
And once it was called it was Farage who was responsible for the most compelling soundbites and slogans; it was he who managed to appeal to a curious, alienated demographic who didn't really seem to know what they were voting for other than it was a protest of some sort or other.
No Farage, no referendum, and if he had died in the plane crash then the UK would have voted to remain.
Without Farage there would have been no threat to the Tories, and Cameron would not have felt forced to hold a referendum.
And once it was called it was Farage who was responsible for the most compelling soundbites and slogans; it was he who managed to appeal to a curious, alienated demographic who didn't really seem to know what they were voting for other than it was a protest of some sort or other.
No Farage, no referendum, and if he had died in the plane crash then the UK would have voted to remain.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
No. Blame Johnson, if it's worth blaming anybody. He was the journo in Brussels creating stories for the politicos here to use to scapegoat Brussels as the source of all ills. The foreign office had to create a dept. to counter it.
Blame Brussels for going too far too fast.
I very much share your anger at the situation but blaming Farage is a waste of energy.
No. Blame Johnson, if it's worth blaming anybody. He was the journo in Brussels creating stories for the politicos here to use to scapegoat Brussels as the source of all ills. The foreign office had to create a dept. to counter it.
Blame Brussels for going too far too fast.
I very much share your anger at the situation but blaming Farage is a waste of energy.
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In reply to FactorXXX:
Really? I think Farage deserves a significant chunk of the blame but he certainly doesn't stand alone. That said, he'd certainly be on the top step with Cameron, Johnson and the media barons who've stired shit for decades chasing circulation and power.
I really don't think it's especially fair to blame the public, we've been subject to decades of propaganda. Added to that many lack the degree of education required to unpick the threads of reality from the well established myths. In talking to hundreds, perhaps thousands of people on the street before the referendum my abiding impression was of confusion, ignorance and undirected anger. If those people I met were representative of the population (and granted, I live in a relatively prosperous area that voted remain) then we did not make an informed decision on the 23rd, we lashed out at authority (Cameron's Tories predominantly) with precious little understanding of the very serious consequences.
jk
> I voted Remain and I can't see how you can possibly blame Farage for what has happened.
> If you want to 'blame' anyone, then blame the actual people that voted Leave and perhaps those that didn't vote at all.
> If you want to 'blame' anyone, then blame the actual people that voted Leave and perhaps those that didn't vote at all.
Really? I think Farage deserves a significant chunk of the blame but he certainly doesn't stand alone. That said, he'd certainly be on the top step with Cameron, Johnson and the media barons who've stired shit for decades chasing circulation and power.
I really don't think it's especially fair to blame the public, we've been subject to decades of propaganda. Added to that many lack the degree of education required to unpick the threads of reality from the well established myths. In talking to hundreds, perhaps thousands of people on the street before the referendum my abiding impression was of confusion, ignorance and undirected anger. If those people I met were representative of the population (and granted, I live in a relatively prosperous area that voted remain) then we did not make an informed decision on the 23rd, we lashed out at authority (Cameron's Tories predominantly) with precious little understanding of the very serious consequences.
jk
Post edited at 09:06
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In reply to ian caton:
No, I'm not losing energy about Farage, I was just musing that what is a turning point in history should hinge on such a deeply unattractive and ignorant man.
No, I'm not losing energy about Farage, I was just musing that what is a turning point in history should hinge on such a deeply unattractive and ignorant man.
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In reply to ian caton:
Its the odd thing about charisma particularly in politicians. It seems to either work really well or fail completely.
> I agree, but obviously not to many millions of people. There's the rub.
Its the odd thing about charisma particularly in politicians. It seems to either work really well or fail completely.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
That's a bit harsh on Sir Winston...
> Extraordinarily, it seems that a physically unattractive, alcoholic, public school ex-City chancer with a paranoid obsession about Europe seems to have wreaked more permanent, constitutional, political and economic damage than Mosley ever managed.
That's a bit harsh on Sir Winston...
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
He can't really help the former (physically, at least) - it's not fair to condemn him for that.
> such a deeply unattractive and ignorant man
He can't really help the former (physically, at least) - it's not fair to condemn him for that.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
He still seems to get more BBC airtime than the leader of the opposition.
He still seems to get more BBC airtime than the leader of the opposition.
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In reply to pebbles:
That's his way. Unfortunately it appeals to an awful lot of people who see him as "straight-talking" or "no-nonsense", despite being the opposite of both those things.
> he really is an atrocious bullying twerp. Gina Miller is calm and dignified and wipes the floor with him in her arguments, Farage just tries to talk over her and constantly interrupts.
That's his way. Unfortunately it appeals to an awful lot of people who see him as "straight-talking" or "no-nonsense", despite being the opposite of both those things.
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In reply to GrahamD:
The high level of coverage the BBC gives him is disgraceful. He is not even a member of parliament, never has been and never will be.
> He still seems to get more BBC airtime than the leader of the opposition.
The high level of coverage the BBC gives him is disgraceful. He is not even a member of parliament, never has been and never will be.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Are Farage and Trump really fascists?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/07/donald-trump-nigel-fa...
By an actual professor of European history and fascism expert. Summary might be that history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme (as someone may have said).
My vote: proto-fascist tendencies.
Are Farage and Trump really fascists?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/07/donald-trump-nigel-fa...
By an actual professor of European history and fascism expert. Summary might be that history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme (as someone may have said).
My vote: proto-fascist tendencies.
Post edited at 16:11
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In reply to Removed UserBwox:
A hate crime , maybe?
> He can't really help the former (physically, at least) - it's not fair to condemn him for that.
A hate crime , maybe?
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In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:
Since when was being an MP been a requirement for media coverage? He maybe loathsome but he is one of the most influential politicians of the past twenty years. It would be ridiculous not to cover him.
> The high level of coverage the BBC gives him is disgraceful. He is not even a member of parliament, never has been and never will be.
Since when was being an MP been a requirement for media coverage? He maybe loathsome but he is one of the most influential politicians of the past twenty years. It would be ridiculous not to cover him.
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Farage clambered aboard the bandwagon created by Tory backwoodsmen from Thatcher's time and got in an unholy alliance with the more spittle-flecked of the daily press. He's inconsequential, the blame lies in part with Brussels (as someone else said, for going too far too fast) and partly with Cameron who decided to have a game of bingo with it all to see if he could shout "house" before Boris did.
Anyway, scary Brexit is being played out this week in the US, only this time with real fascists and live ammunition.....
Farage clambered aboard the bandwagon created by Tory backwoodsmen from Thatcher's time and got in an unholy alliance with the more spittle-flecked of the daily press. He's inconsequential, the blame lies in part with Brussels (as someone else said, for going too far too fast) and partly with Cameron who decided to have a game of bingo with it all to see if he could shout "house" before Boris did.
Anyway, scary Brexit is being played out this week in the US, only this time with real fascists and live ammunition.....
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Chicken and egg, isn't it ? its by giving him disproportionate coverage that allows him to be influential. I suppose the sound bites he deals in also help for TV and red tops.
> Since when was being an MP been a requirement for media coverage? He maybe loathsome but he is one of the most influential politicians of the past twenty years. It would be ridiculous not to cover him.
Chicken and egg, isn't it ? its by giving him disproportionate coverage that allows him to be influential. I suppose the sound bites he deals in also help for TV and red tops.
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In reply to GrahamD:
I would suggest that for many years the BBC was very reluctant to cover him until size of UKIP's vote made it unavoidable. He is, of course, also good TV in the same way that Boris is good TV.
> Chicken and egg, isn't it ? its by giving him disproportionate coverage that allows him to be influential. I suppose the sound bites he deals in also help for TV and red tops.
I would suggest that for many years the BBC was very reluctant to cover him until size of UKIP's vote made it unavoidable. He is, of course, also good TV in the same way that Boris is good TV.
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In reply to colinakmc:
> Farage clambered aboard the bandwagon created by Tory backwoodsmen from Thatcher's time and got in an unholy alliance with the more spittle-flecked of the daily press. He's inconsequential, the blame lies in part with Brussels (as someone else said, for going too far too fast) and partly with Cameron who decided to have a game of bingo with it all to see if he could shout "house" before Boris did.
>
Well, I take your point but on that basis Hitler was not influential because he was a product of the vindictive Versailles settlement,the incompetence of the Weimar governments and complacency of the German establishment.Post edited at 21:27
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In reply to Postmanpat:
My gut feeling is that this isn't the case, but I don't know, it would be interesting* to compare appearances vs election results over an extended period against the other parties.
*Not so interesting that I am planning on doing it any time soon.
> I would suggest that for many years the BBC was very reluctant to cover him until size of UKIP's vote made it unavoidable.
My gut feeling is that this isn't the case, but I don't know, it would be interesting* to compare appearances vs election results over an extended period against the other parties.
*Not so interesting that I am planning on doing it any time soon.
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