UKC

Something I've been wondering about for a while.

We all know that free climbing is proper climbing and aid climbing is cheating. However, are there any routes on UK rock that would actually be better climbed "French free" with a point or two are clean aid?

I guess that the sort of route that I'm thinking of is 150m mountain routes that get VS 5a for a short, unavoidable hard crack on the second pitch but which would otherwise be a glorious romp for a VDiff leader. Does this kind of thing exist? Less theoretically, will anyone admit to having happily frigged something of that ilk?

In reply to Ramblin dave:

I guess South Ridge Direct (VS 5a) is something like this, although it's maybe got 3 Severe+ pitches? The crux is certainly uncharacteristically hard and is a crack so could be easily frigged using a few cams.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Many many moons ago I frigged the crux of Spartan Slab (VS 4c), it seemed very hard at the time, probably would be fine now, but a cheeky 60 cm sling on the nut in the crack overlap and I could escape the the psychological pressure of the teams who were following up behind us and were watching me failing to work out how to get over the overlap!

In reply to TobyA:

Hammer can be done with a nice tension traverse...

Of course a few really good routes like Carnage Left-hand are usually done with a little aid.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

I get the impression King Rat is better as a VS A1 than an E1 - it may be even described as the former in the Gary Latter guide?

In reply to Ramblin dave: Not done any of these but presumably:
- Carnage with a point of aid at 5b rather than 6b (?) free is a suitable example.
- Similarly Eroica in Devon but I believe the peg has gone so presumably that's now only of historical interest.
- Suicide Wall at Bosigran would be 5a'ish with a nut for aid rather than 5c.
- Llithrig and White Slab at Cloggy with pendulums at 5a rather than 5c free.
I'm sure there are many more.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Not being much of a trad climber, I have read this and am now delighted to find out that "frigging" means something different to that which I learnt as a teenager...

In reply to Ramblin dave:

I'm mildly surprised the ethics police haven't come after you with pitchforks yet.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

White Slab and Llithrig are both much better with the tension moves/swings than free

In reply to Ramblin dave:



:')

In reply to Ramblin dave:

You know about Benny (A1) right?

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Anything with a rubbish hard crux.

Mirage in Avon springs to mind. Lovely sustained 5b climbing either side of a horrid 6a move. Pfft

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Direct Route on Dinas Mot might be a contender.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Carnage is vile free, horrible cruxy move that is out of all proportion to the rest of it. Perfect peg, wee pull and your there.
As long as your not effecting the rock why not? Do your own thing.

In reply to FBSF:


Not to mention that it risks a fall onto the peg which is pretty much the only gear above the belay (think I had a dodgy RP as 'backup').

In reply to Michael Hood:


FFS, Eroica is in CORNWALL. (Better with a point of aid though and in the past usually done with one.)

In reply to Mark Kemball:

Pincushion at Tremadog used to be often climbed with a point of aid.

In reply to Mark Kemball: Oops - sorry

In reply to Ramblin dave:

I don't think we have many 150m routes but considerably shorter I think Bowfell buttress sees more than the odd sureptitious pull on gear...

In reply to John2:
Yep. As an E2 it's still a classic, but a bit of a one move wonder.

As an HVS A1, I imagine it's much more sustained, continually interesting, and more satisfying to be done when HVS is your absolute limit then to free it when you're cruising E2.

Same as most one move wonders. It's a shame to see it as bad style or ethics IMO.

(Only done Pincushion once btw, and it was a clean E2 onsight, but do kind of wish I'd had a crack earlier as an aspirant VS'er).

Edit to add: Michael Hood's list: spot on!

In reply to Ramblin dave:

The E2s off Windy Ledge at Stoney Middleton. Hard boulder problem to get off the deck followed by lovely, easier, exposed climbing.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

South East Ridge of the Index:

Southeast Ridge (AD 4c)

A VS move to get off the ground, which I French-freed, followed by a solo to the top which I reckoned was about VDiff at most.

In reply to Michael Hood:

Don't worry, but as a Cornish resident, close to the border with England (as they say round here), I get a bit of bee in my bonnet about crags trying to slip over to Devon!

In reply to FactorXXX:

Direct Route Dinas Mot might be a contender.

I cheated on the last pitch and clipped a sling, it was my first multi pitch lead and when I looked down from the ledge I lost my nerve.

In reply to FactorXXX:


That would be a shame, the crux is really nice climbing.

I propose either Original Route (VS 5a) or the Groove Above (S 4b) - both have shite polished bits that detract from the actual enjoyable climbing. For original route, this covers the alternatives that also pass through that slippery v-notch. It's not hard, just crap.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Any route that has a crux far harder and/or out of context with the rest of the route. Using aid could make it more homogeneous but I wouldn't go so far as to say better.

Al

In reply to ianstevens:



My memory (from 1968!) was that it was an absolutely classic crux, with nasty groundfall potential (one very dubious nut IIRC). It was the hardest thing my brother and I led that summer in bendy Hawkins hill-walking boots. I led the first pitch, and it took me nearly half an hour to work out that crux move and to pluck up courage and commit myself. In big boots, we found the rest of the route still quite demanding, but I remember it as a very satisfying experience.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

"We all know that free climbing is proper climbing and aid climbing is cheating. However, are there any routes on UK rock that would actually be better climbed "French free" with a point or two are clean aid?"

Not sure how serious you are with the first sentence. I hope you are joking.
Most routes can be aided if you fancy it. Just pull on your cams / nuts / hooks. You will very soon figure out if you like it or not. Most people struggle. A few enjoy.

A free French

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Sounds excellent! Both seem rather polished now unfortunatley, but as a result the gear is top notch! Not hard climbing for either section by any means, just not the most fun.