UKC

An interesting motion tabled by an MEP.
Strangely the "Get Britain out campaign" don't like it. Saying it would divide Britain (like that hasn't happened already) or may be they think that the majority of people would sign up to be associate members to keep the advantages of being in the EU that Brexiters say we haven't got?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-freedom...

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

I don't see that getting through. UK leaves but UK citizens retain free movement and residency rights that may be denied to other EU citizens living in the UK?

Every country in the EU probably fancies leaving on those terms.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

I agree, it looks lovely but I can't see it being granted.

The churlish response of the leave campaign is fairly telling, though, and one of the worst examples of logic I've ever read (offering this is discrimination, because some people won't like it / don't want it, so they'll be discriminated for not having it???)

In reply to andyfallsoff:


I read it twice trying to figure out what I had missed. Being charitable I can only assume there is something in the amendment which isnt in the article which would put that response into a bit more context.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

I now have a European passport so don't care but would love to see it happen.

In reply to Ridge:

Well, it sounds like some of the Brexiteers don't...

To be honest, I'm assuming that this basically isn't going to happen, although I can see an argument that it would be in the interests of the EU to make it as easy as possible for Brits to live and work on the continent rather than over here even if we don't reciprocate, since realistically they'd mostly be creaming off the smart, motivated types for the foreseeable future.

Conversely, the response from the Leave campaigners does very little to dispel my impression that even they're starting to act like the referendum result is a suicide pact rather than a golden opportunity.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

I particularly liked this bit:

Brexit campaigners in Britain reacted with anger to the idea, arguing that it would discriminate against Leave voters and that it was “an outrage”.

AMAZING!!

I am not sure how much mileage this has in reality, but I am so up for it being pursued! It could be a way of keeping Scotland in the UK, and easing worries about NI troubles too.

In reply to KevinD:

Jayne Adye's response:

"Jayne Adye, director of the Get Britain Out campaign described the proposal as divisive and said it was “totally unacceptable” for British people to retain the advantages of EU membership."

“Brexit means laws which impact the people of the UK will be created by accountable politicians in Westminster. It is totally unacceptable for certain citizens in the UK to subject themselves to laws which are created by politicians who are not accountable the British people as a whole. Discriminating against people based on their political views shows there are no depths the EU will not sink to.”

I realise I said she was of the "leave" campaign and she actually comes from a different brexit organisation, so apologies for that.

In reply to andyfallsoff:

I think it is the leave campaign's response which i find amusing in this. I agree though I can't see it being granted. I can't see some people having the right to the EU courts while others don't. Though maybe it is just like being in a big trade union?

In reply to andyfallsoff:
It's funny how discrimination is political correctness gone mad, until it's their turn to be offered something they don't want at which point it's somehow discrimination even though it's open to them too. It's against their (European) human rights innit

http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk/whattheromans.html

In reply to Duncan Bourne:


I might be wrong, but I'd have assumed that the result would be like any other dual nationality (or single nationality, come to that) - you're subject to the jurisdiction of the country that you're in, and have recourse to the EU courts or not based on that, not based on what passport you've got.

In reply to andyfallsoff:

I like the idea of a brexiter saying that there are advantages to being in the EU

In reply to andyfallsoff:


yeah I read that it just doesnt make any sense though. What on earth does "subject themselves to laws" and "discriminating against people" mean? Unless this amendment actually says to get rights you have to swear allegiance to the EU and anyone who doesnt wont get it.


I will let you off. Not least because I really aint sure of the differences between the peoples front of brexit and the brexit peoples front.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

That was my thought. Being a dual citizen already... That criticism is illogical and poorly conceived.

Unlikely to happen but nice thought, and nice to feel wanted.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

Great idea. If 18m adults apply, Brexit should be revoked.

In reply to Shani:

I suspect this might be the truth behind why the leave campaign think it is totally unacceptable. If more than 52% of the population apply for EU citizenship - it shows that there is not the "clear" mandate that is being claimed. If more than half of the population are EU citizens, then do we need to think about ignoring the opinion poll?!

In reply to KevinD:


Being uncharitable, I assume it's just as stupid as it appears to be.

In reply to girlymonkey:





Quite a nice way of annoying reactionary people too.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

I'd sign up for associate EU membership if they can make it happen

In reply to girlymonkey:



I doubt it'll ever happen. Anyway, I bet tons of Leavers would go for this too - wanting their cake and to eat it.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:
Yes please!
Any idea what the subscription will be? I don't think I can afford 350 million a week.

In reply to deepsoup:



That's the reality of the situation. All the benefits of EU membership for free?

In reply to Ridge:

It would not be all of the benefits - as the state in which we live would not be a member of the single market, and thinks like less favoured areas would not get EU support etc.

In reply to Dr.S at work:

I stand corrected. However, for most remainers it seems to have been the freedom of movement and residence that was the main concern.

In reply to Ridge:
I think that's true for some, and certainly a common theme in protests seems to be the loss of individuals privileges rather than the impact on the nation as a whole.

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Either a couple of people disagree with the 'loss of individual's privileges' bit or it hit a nerve...

In reply to Ridge:


I didnt meet many who listed it first. Personally doest matter much to me. Extra ten pound a year to have an Irish passport as well.

In reply to KevinD:


As someone who lives in France it means a lot to me, I'm sure I'll be able to stay but difficult to see how its not going to involve a lot of until now unnecessary paperwork, either to get a French passport or a work/residency permit. And I seem to be one of the few who's not eligible for an Irish passport

In reply to Alan M:

So would I, but you realize we would become "Enemies of the People".

I talked about this idea idly after the vote but I never thought it would be suggested properly.

It would be quite a smart move as it would outflank the Brexit plan to strip us all of our citizenship and would also leave some EU influence in the UK, as well as allowing them to guage real support for the EU here.

In reply to KevinD:

perhaps a clause saying only people with EU rights would be eligible to buy HP Sauce?

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Also when active young people move from one EU country to another, it's the country they're moving to rather than the country they're leaving that benefits. I'm still hoping we might realise how much EU migrants contribute to our economy, and our national life more generally, before we start hounding them out of the country in earnest.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

It would be great if the UK reciprocated and offered EU citizens currently resident in the UK the ability to apply for dual UK citizenship free of charge. Don't see it happening though because Theresa May knows which way they would vote.

In reply to Ridge:


I was one of the dislikers - I didn't like the use of the rather loaded word 'privileges', but mostly I just wanted to disagree without having to say that, while I do still care very much about the larger issues (and have explained so on here at far more length than anyone is likely to have bothered reading), the possible forthcoming loss of my wife's rights to live and work here is just more of an immediate problem. I suspect the same is true for others.

With the cost running into the low thousands, the Kafkaesque forms and processes requiring us to provide information we don't actually have (e.g. what exact dates have you been in and out of the country since 1998, please?), the daily stress and uncertainty and consequent family arguments, and so on, it's just more on my mind than matters such as the potential destabilisation of Europe, or the economy, both of which are a bit beyond my abilities to make much difference to anyway.

There didn't seem to be much point in saying all that again - it isn't your problem, and it's just a case of getting on with it now and hoping for the best - so I just clicked 'dislike' and meant to leave it a that.

But since you commented...

In reply to deepsoup:



The only way I could see this happening is with a subscription. I would consider paying if it was reasonable. To suggest it would discriminate against Leave voters is ridiculous. They would have the same right to join as anyone else.

Martin

In reply to Martin Hore:


Yes, me too. I have a European professional qualification with which I can work in any EU state (and a few others too) but since I might have my right to residency restricted as a result of Brexit I think I could make a good argument for some sort of associate membership.

In reply to Duncan Bourne:

Thinking about it the idea of a global citizenship that you can sign up for is quite a radical idea and one that suits the digital age. I can think of several pros and cons but it is interesting all the same

In reply to Ridge:


No, but it is one concern. My main concern is that we loose protection of workers rights, environmental protection and a lot of migration and trade privileges. However, having the right to an EU passport does give me more flexibility to leave this country when it gets too scary, it gives my parents continued freedom to keep moving between Germany and Scotland as often as they like (quite often!) and generally makes life and work easier. I am utterly devastated to be getting dragged out against the will of my country, and this would help soften the blow just a little.

In reply to skog:


Hi Skog, I do consider it a privilege to be able to freely move and work within the EU, I was referring to the loss of the privilege of this for UK citizens, not the (potential) loss of access to the UK for EU citizens. No loading intended.

best wishes

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Thanks.

In reply to skog:


Thanks skog. Hope things work out for you and your wife.

In reply to Duncan Bourne: The UK does not want to leave!

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/articles/we_want_to_remain_say_11_out_of_13...

In reply to Ridge:

Well then thank you too, Ridge.

They probably will; if not, we'll make something work out somewhere.