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Sorry for another Brexitish thread, it's technical not a slagging match.
Assuming Brexit results in the end of freedom of movement, and we end up with the ETIAS system after we leave, will we still have the 90 day limit to stay in the EU? It seems that the ETIAS is valid for five years, and for multiple trips to Europe, so without a visa there presumably won't be a way of limiting the duration of stay? Or will there be? Anyone know how this is likely to work if I were planning on spending say six months visiting Europe after Brexit?
Assuming Brexit results in the end of freedom of movement, and we end up with the ETIAS system after we leave, will we still have the 90 day limit to stay in the EU? It seems that the ETIAS is valid for five years, and for multiple trips to Europe, so without a visa there presumably won't be a way of limiting the duration of stay? Or will there be? Anyone know how this is likely to work if I were planning on spending say six months visiting Europe after Brexit?
In reply to RyanOsborne:
It would work the same as with any other country. Clock-in clock-out system controlled by passport stamps and computer records.
> without a visa there presumably won't be a way of limiting the duration of stay?
It would work the same as with any other country. Clock-in clock-out system controlled by passport stamps and computer records.
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In reply to Mr Lopez:
Ah I see, so what's the benefit of no visa? Just that they don't have to run you through the system every time?
Ah I see, so what's the benefit of no visa? Just that they don't have to run you through the system every time?
In reply to RyanOsborne:
ETIAS would replace visa free travel. Any Brit wanting to enter the EU would get one, and be OK for 5 years.
EDIT: I would think they are considering it as a way to recover some of the money they will lose by the UK leaving.
ETIAS would replace visa free travel. Any Brit wanting to enter the EU would get one, and be OK for 5 years.
EDIT: I would think they are considering it as a way to recover some of the money they will lose by the UK leaving.
Post edited at 14:32
In reply to Mike Stretford:
But there'll still be the 90 day in 180 restriction right?
> ETIAS would replace visa free travel. Any Brit wanting to enter the EU would get one, and be OK for 5 years.
But there'll still be the 90 day in 180 restriction right?
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In reply to RyanOsborne:
Pretty much. Not having to run through the whole visa procedure, which usually involves several weeks if not months of to and fro and a fair whack of money.
Pretty much. Not having to run through the whole visa procedure, which usually involves several weeks if not months of to and fro and a fair whack of money.
In reply to Mike Stretford:
At 5 Euro per application? I'd be surprised if that even covers costs of administering.
> EDIT: I would think they are considering it as a way to recover some of the money they will lose by the UK leaving.
At 5 Euro per application? I'd be surprised if that even covers costs of administering.
In reply to RyanOsborne:
That only Miss May knows...
> But there'll still be the 90 day in 180 restriction right?
That only Miss May knows...
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In reply to RyanOsborne:
Yes I think there would be (TBH I thought not but on second thoughts it will mirror the US system). We'll have to plan our trips carefully!
> But there'll still be the 90 day in 180 restriction right?
Yes I think there would be (TBH I thought not but on second thoughts it will mirror the US system). We'll have to plan our trips carefully!
Post edited at 14:39
In reply to Mr Lopez:
I should have said, I think they will put the price up for that reason.
> At 5 Euro per application? I'd be surprised if that even covers costs of administering.
I should have said, I think they will put the price up for that reason.
In reply to Mr Lopez:
Ridiculous-- it will be an EU regulation not a UK one!
So reality is nobody knows and it will be an EU decision on what they want to do.
Ridiculous-- it will be an EU regulation not a UK one!
So reality is nobody knows and it will be an EU decision on what they want to do.
In reply to neilh:
Woah, having a bad day?
It will be a negotiated agreement and what happens will depend on what May negotiates. For example, it would be in her interest to negotiate for unlimited visa free travel with no right of work, that would solve to an extent the pickle of the British immigrants living in Erope after retirement while appeasing somewhat the "polish plumbers are stealing our jobs" demographic.
So, the future terms of travel for UK citizens into Europe is very much in Theresa May's hands
> Ridiculous-- it will be an EU regulation not a UK one!
Woah, having a bad day?
It will be a negotiated agreement and what happens will depend on what May negotiates. For example, it would be in her interest to negotiate for unlimited visa free travel with no right of work, that would solve to an extent the pickle of the British immigrants living in Erope after retirement while appeasing somewhat the "polish plumbers are stealing our jobs" demographic.
So, the future terms of travel for UK citizens into Europe is very much in Theresa May's hands
Post edited at 14:59
In reply to RyanOsborne:
I don't recall British travellers needing visa for Europe pre 1973. OK your passport would get stamped but, and I travelled many times to Europe, there were no visas per se.
I don't recall British travellers needing visa for Europe pre 1973. OK your passport would get stamped but, and I travelled many times to Europe, there were no visas per se.
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Ok, to summarise
Under ETIAS, the 90 days in 180 rule will apply
Brit's won't necessarily be eligible for ETIAS, as MR Lopez suggests. We might get another scheme. In any case, I would expect the cost of both to be higher than the 5 euros which was initially suggested.
Yeah?
Under ETIAS, the 90 days in 180 rule will apply
Brit's won't necessarily be eligible for ETIAS, as MR Lopez suggests. We might get another scheme. In any case, I would expect the cost of both to be higher than the 5 euros which was initially suggested.
Yeah?
In reply to FesteringSore:
You did not vote to return to 1972.
> I don't recall British travellers needing visa for Europe pre 1973. OK your passport would get stamped but, and I travelled many times to Europe, there were no visas per se.
You did not vote to return to 1972.
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In reply to FesteringSore:
The world's moved on since 1972. Brexit won't make it go back. You voted to leave an area with free movement. You may or may continue to have free movement at some level in the future and you may or may or may not have to pay for it and it may or may not cost you a lot. You thought this a good idea for some reason...
> ?
The world's moved on since 1972. Brexit won't make it go back. You voted to leave an area with free movement. You may or may continue to have free movement at some level in the future and you may or may or may not have to pay for it and it may or may not cost you a lot. You thought this a good idea for some reason...
Post edited at 15:37
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In reply to FesteringSore:
The world has moved on, your experiences pre UK in the EU are irrelevant.
The world has moved on, your experiences pre UK in the EU are irrelevant.
In reply to Mr Lopez:
That would certainly be a fine piece of negotiation . What do the other side get in return?
That would certainly be a fine piece of negotiation . What do the other side get in return?
In reply to Mr Lopez:
That would work quite well for me personally. So would becoming an associate citizen of the EU, but a topic for (yet) another thread perhaps.
> For example, it would be in her interest to negotiate for unlimited visa free travel with no right of work, that would solve to an extent the pickle of the British immigrants living in Erope after retirement while appeasing somewhat the "polish plumbers are stealing our jobs" demographic.
That would work quite well for me personally. So would becoming an associate citizen of the EU, but a topic for (yet) another thread perhaps.
In reply to Mike Stretford:
Yeah, I was under the impression that if free movement ends, then ETIAS for Brits travelling to the EU would be the most likely scenario, but of course it's all up for debate / negotiation.
> Brit's won't necessarily be eligible for ETIAS, as MR Lopez suggests. We might get another scheme.
Yeah, I was under the impression that if free movement ends, then ETIAS for Brits travelling to the EU would be the most likely scenario, but of course it's all up for debate / negotiation.
In reply to Mike Stretford:
But there's plenty of countries outside Europe to which UK passport holders can travel sans visa.
But there's plenty of countries outside Europe to which UK passport holders can travel sans visa.
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In reply to Mr Lopez:
There are 2 parties.It is in the EU's hands just as much as hers.It will after all be their borders.It is down to them what they want not us!If they wanted to charge Euros 50 a visit...its upto them.
To blame it on May is just hype. At least blame it on the people who voted for Brexit.Be angry with them.
There are 2 parties.It is in the EU's hands just as much as hers.It will after all be their borders.It is down to them what they want not us!If they wanted to charge Euros 50 a visit...its upto them.
To blame it on May is just hype. At least blame it on the people who voted for Brexit.Be angry with them.
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In reply to FesteringSore:
Depends what you mean. The US for example has a visa waiver but a) you pay b) it's a paperwork hassle c) you give away loads if legal rights to get it.
Depends what you mean. The US for example has a visa waiver but a) you pay b) it's a paperwork hassle c) you give away loads if legal rights to get it.
In reply to Mike Stretford:
Visas are generally applied tit-for-tat. If we require country X's citizens to have a visa to travel to the UK for y reason, they will generally impose the same requirements on us.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_British_citizens has a whole list of countries not in the EU where we have visa-free travel - just because we won't be in the EU, it doesn't automatically mean that we will need a visa to go to France.
Visas are generally applied tit-for-tat. If we require country X's citizens to have a visa to travel to the UK for y reason, they will generally impose the same requirements on us.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_British_citizens has a whole list of countries not in the EU where we have visa-free travel - just because we won't be in the EU, it doesn't automatically mean that we will need a visa to go to France.
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In reply to FesteringSore:
Most require some form of visa waiver eg US, Aus, but it's irrelevant, it depends on what deal is negotiated with Europe. I don't actually think it's a big deal so no need to put your Brexiteer hat on. I'd rather pay a fee and know I've got the right to enter somewhere.
> But there's plenty of countries outside Europe to which UK passport holders can travel sans visa.
Most require some form of visa waiver eg US, Aus, but it's irrelevant, it depends on what deal is negotiated with Europe. I don't actually think it's a big deal so no need to put your Brexiteer hat on. I'd rather pay a fee and know I've got the right to enter somewhere.
Post edited at 16:28
In reply to Mr Lopez:
That sounds like the stupidest immigration policy ever, allow only the ones who don't work... wtf ?
> Woah, having a bad day?
> It will be a negotiated agreement and what happens will depend on what May negotiates. For example, it would be in her interest to negotiate for unlimited visa free travel with no right of work, that would solve to an extent the pickle of the British immigrants living in Erope after retirement while appeasing somewhat the "polish plumbers are stealing our jobs" demographic.
That sounds like the stupidest immigration policy ever, allow only the ones who don't work... wtf ?
Post edited at 16:34
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In reply to RomTheBear:
Pensioners with a proven income and some form of health insurance.
> That sounds like the stupidest immigration policy ever, allow only the ones who don't work... wtf ?
Pensioners with a proven income and some form of health insurance.
In reply to whenry:
Exactly, it is rumoured the government are considering a visa scheme for EU citizens, something like the US ETA.
> Visas are generally applied tit-for-tat.
Exactly, it is rumoured the government are considering a visa scheme for EU citizens, something like the US ETA.
In reply to Mike Stretford:
Why would any country prioritise pensioners that don't pay taxes at the expense of productive workers?
Unless you're taking about restricting it to very rich pensioners who can make substantial investments in the local economy, but that's a tiny minority.
> Pensioners with a proven income and some form of health insurance.
Why would any country prioritise pensioners that don't pay taxes at the expense of productive workers?
Unless you're taking about restricting it to very rich pensioners who can make substantial investments in the local economy, but that's a tiny minority.
In reply to RomTheBear:
Some countries do eg Spain. Depends on the countries economy. It is very difficult to live somewhere without paying any tax.
> Why would any country prioritise pensioners that don't pay taxes at the expense of productive workers?
Some countries do eg Spain. Depends on the countries economy. It is very difficult to live somewhere without paying any tax.
In reply to wbo:
Same terms for EU citizens would be my guess, and/or automatic residency for current EU migrants in the UK, or a streamlined easier to get working visa system for EU nationals, or a free supply of cornish pastries, breakfast tea and after eights for the EU parliament for 10 years. Who knows? It'll be just another piece in the massive chess board the lizard overlords will be playing with.
> That would certainly be a fine piece of negotiation . What do the other side get in return?
Same terms for EU citizens would be my guess, and/or automatic residency for current EU migrants in the UK, or a streamlined easier to get working visa system for EU nationals, or a free supply of cornish pastries, breakfast tea and after eights for the EU parliament for 10 years. Who knows? It'll be just another piece in the massive chess board the lizard overlords will be playing with.
In reply to RomTheBear:
Calm down dear. It's only an example on how the future travel arrangement would be negotiated. Full disclosure, i am not an EU negotiator, neither i am an MEP, or a leader from an European country, so the example above is not to be taken as a fully fledged specific proposal in the Brexit negotiations.
> That sounds like the stupidest immigration policy ever, allow only the ones who don't work... wtf ?
Calm down dear. It's only an example on how the future travel arrangement would be negotiated. Full disclosure, i am not an EU negotiator, neither i am an MEP, or a leader from an European country, so the example above is not to be taken as a fully fledged specific proposal in the Brexit negotiations.
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In reply to Mike Stretford:
Not really, as the system has been in preparation since long before Brexit, with the EU working group developing the system even run by a British EU bueraucrat (who, for obvious political reasons, was replaced by someone from Schengistan for the official announcement).
Don£t be paranoid, if part of its purpose is to get even with someone at all it is payback for ESTA.
CB
edit: Whether EITAS will at all applicable for the UK will only be seen after the negotiations, at the moment it is just being listed as one of the things the EU side puts on as a price tag for a hard Brexit (which the EU side actually would prefer to avoid). I am 100% sure that Norway and, depending on the upcoming negotiations, Switzerland will eventually be exempt.
> EDIT: I would think they are considering it as a way to recover some of the money they will lose by the UK leaving.
Not really, as the system has been in preparation since long before Brexit, with the EU working group developing the system even run by a British EU bueraucrat (who, for obvious political reasons, was replaced by someone from Schengistan for the official announcement).
Don£t be paranoid, if part of its purpose is to get even with someone at all it is payback for ESTA.
CB
edit: Whether EITAS will at all applicable for the UK will only be seen after the negotiations, at the moment it is just being listed as one of the things the EU side puts on as a price tag for a hard Brexit (which the EU side actually would prefer to avoid). I am 100% sure that Norway and, depending on the upcoming negotiations, Switzerland will eventually be exempt.
Post edited at 17:28
In reply to cb294:
As events have moved on, so may the thinking of EU people.
I'm not and I wouldn't consider it 'payback'. There will be a deficit and they will want to make it up. I'd consider it fair that travelers contribute to infrastructure and facilities they will use, or at least contribute to the running costs of a scheme which allows them to travel without much hassle.
> Not really, as the system has been in preparation since long before Brexit, with the EU working group developing the system even run by a British EU bueraucrat (who, for obvious political reasons, was replaced by someone from Schengistan for the official announcement).
As events have moved on, so may the thinking of EU people.
> Don£t be paranoid
I'm not and I wouldn't consider it 'payback'. There will be a deficit and they will want to make it up. I'd consider it fair that travelers contribute to infrastructure and facilities they will use, or at least contribute to the running costs of a scheme which allows them to travel without much hassle.
Post edited at 17:34
In reply to RomTheBear: I'm not interested in the type of Punch and Judy sketch you frequently get involved in. Spain has a specific visa for pensioners, look it up, 'visa de Jubilados' in Spanish
http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/SANFRANCISCO/en/ConsularServices/Do...
we could argue over your use of the word 'prioritise', but frankly, I've got better things to do.
http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/SANFRANCISCO/en/ConsularServices/Do...
we could argue over your use of the word 'prioritise', but frankly, I've got better things to do.
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In reply to Mike Stretford:
As many other countries do, but as I said, it's restricted to a minority of rich pensioners. That's clearly not what we were talking about here.
> I'm not interested in the type of Punch and Judy sketch you frequently get involved in. Spain has a specific visa for pensioners, look it up, 'visa de Jubilados' in Spanish
> we could argue over your use of the word 'prioritise', but frankly, I've got better things to do.
As many other countries do, but as I said, it's restricted to a minority of rich pensioners. That's clearly not what we were talking about here.
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