/ Am I missing something here.

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Fredt on 24 Nov 2016

I'm not familiar with the latest techniques and ideas, but this looks wrong to me.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=285697

Happy to be corrected, but would rather not be flamed, thank you, or maybe I've been trolled, in which case its not a useful one.
Post edited at 14:49
GrahamD - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

Its not best done with synthetic coats, I agree.
WaterMonkey - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

It's quite a common sight at Harrisons. A bit of a cult thing apparently!
I've seen people belaying just by holding the live end of the rope not even going around their back, whilst the climber has the rope tied around his waist.

jonnie3430 - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

It's a good technique for winter on a poor belay as well, just make sure you've wrapped the rope the right way around your arm and keep it tight. Otherwise you can break your arm and drop your partner.

I've seen old dudes with a wall rope do this at stanage too. First solos with rope around waist, then body belays partner up and swap. Very fast way to get lots of routes done.
Fredt on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to jonnie3430:

> It's a good technique for winter on a poor belay as well, just make sure you've wrapped the rope the right way around your arm and keep it tight. Otherwise you can break your arm and drop your partner.

A good technique for winter and/or poor belays is a body belay or a waist belay. That photo example is neither, at best a hand belay. Its misleading and dangerous to call it a body belay,

> I've seen old dudes with a wall rope do this at stanage too. First solos with rope around waist, then body belays partner up and swap. Very fast way to get lots of routes done.

I'm an old dude, often on Stanage, and yes we do that, but we use a waist belay, with the rope around the waist and a twist round the holding arm. Some even older dudes use a shoulder belay, but us young 'uns under 70 think that is not too safe. You'd fail your SPA if you tried the one in the photo.


coinneach - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

A question mark.
nniff - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

Fairly standard for me on the final belay of Scottish routes, assuming that the last pitch isn't too challenging - walk over the top, go some way back and 'take a firm stance', but not quite like the photo.
jonnie3430 - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:
Hmm, I assume it's around his waist? You assume it's not?

I also wouldn't judge based on a photo on the internet. It's a very easy way of winding folks up into springs of righteous indignation.
Post edited at 17:28
Fredt on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to coinneach:

> A question mark.

?
Fredt on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to jonnie3430:
> Hmm, I assume it's around his waist? You assume it's not?

I've looked very carefully and I'm assuming its not.
Even if it is, why isn't there a rope turn around his left arm?

As I said originally, I am happy to corrected if I'm wrong.
Post edited at 17:28
Fredt on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to jonnie3430:

> I also wouldn't judge based on a photo on the internet. It's a very easy way of winding folks up into springs of righteous indignation.

I may have been wound up, but I'm not being righteous about it. I'm puzzled and asking for help.
jonnie3430 - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

Then ask the person in the photo, or the one that took it. Making a thread doesn't help as there is only a photo to make assumptions on, and you know what assuming does, don't you?
Fredt on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to jonnie3430:

>... and you know what assuming does, don't you?

No, - what does assuming do?


coinneach - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

> ?

That's better!
GrahamD - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

Do we know whether the rope is actually attached to a climber or, if so, whether they have left the ground ? Without context it could be anything.
Fredt on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to GrahamD:

> Do we know whether the rope is actually attached to a climber or, if so, whether they have left the ground ? Without context it could be anything.

"... body belaying someone down unclimbed wall at Harrisons"
EddInaBox on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to jonnie3430:

> ... you know what assuming does, don't you?

Ooh, ooh, I know. It makes an ass out of u and the merciless evil Emperor of the planet Mongo!
ScraggyGoat on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to WaterMonkey:

Not really a cult thing, southern sandstone is very soft so you either solo or top rope. Being soft abrasive sandstone ropes can pick up a lot of sand or be damaged easily. The former can result in ropes becoming quiet stiff. The later means some people still use a tougher hawser style rope. Both mean it can be easier to use a body belay, or an italian hitch rather than a belay plate.
GrahamD - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

Rope doesn't look very tight though...
abseil on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to coinneach:

> A question mark.

I'll raise you two exclamation marks and a semicolon
oldie - on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

I rarely go to Harrison's now but when I do I still use a waist belay to toprope people, and tie on with a bowline round the waist when I climb. This is all absolutely safe if done correctly with a locking twist round the hand with the inactive rope. I learnt as an alternative to school sports with Kent County Council in the late 60's. We used polypropylene hawser laid ropes which could also be hired out by anyone from the shop in Groombridge.
For years I only used waist belays (with nylon rope) and, like others of my generation, held many leader falls and countless seconds. It is almost essential to wear grippy gloves when belaying a leader to avoid rope burns and/or letting go of the rope. It is still a very fast way to take in or pay out the rope and allows for a very dynamic belay if needed. Times have moved on and of course I now use a belay device when not toproping.
Incidentally the guy in the image is not using a waist belay, you can see the inactive rope coming down below his hands. He might just hold a falling toproped climber, but he wouldn't be belaying me.
Fredt on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to oldie


> I rarely go to Harrison's now but when I do I still use a waist belay to toprope people, and tie on with a bowline round the waist when I climb. This is all absolutely safe if done correctly with a locking twist round the hand with the inactive rope. I learnt as an alternative to school sports with Kent County Council in the late 60's. We used polypropylene hawser laid ropes which could also be hired out by anyone from the shop in Groombridge.

> For years I only used waist belays (with nylon rope) and, like others of my generation, held many leader falls and countless seconds. It is almost essential to wear grippy gloves when belaying a leader to avoid rope burns and/or letting go of the rope. It is still a very fast way to take in or pay out the rope and allows for a very dynamic belay if needed. Times have moved on and of course I now use a belay device when not toproping.

> Incidentally the guy in the image is not using a waist belay, you can see the inactive rope coming down below his hands. He might just hold a falling toproped climber, but he wouldn't be belaying me.

I have had exactly the same experiences as you, as will most climbers of our age.

And you echo my thoughts about the photograph precisely, that guy is not using a body belay, or a waist belay, he is holding the rope with one hand.

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Postmanpat on 24 Nov 2016
In reply to Fredt:

> And you echo my thoughts about the photograph precisely, that guy is not using a body belay, or a waist belay, he is holding the rope with one hand.
>
Hand of steel?


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