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World champion, at last...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38123465
Maybe not the greatest driver ever, but from the reports, hard working and well liked by team mates in the garage, Iif not by the other team driver. A deserved victory, and next season could be the most interesting in some time. ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38123465
Maybe not the greatest driver ever, but from the reports, hard working and well liked by team mates in the garage, Iif not by the other team driver. A deserved victory, and next season could be the most interesting in some time. ...
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Disagree on all counts. It's been a long time since someone as unworthy as Rosberg has won the F1 title.
Disagree on all counts. It's been a long time since someone as unworthy as Rosberg has won the F1 title.
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
In what way is it deserved? He got a job for which is handsomely rewarded, by dint of his connections (and talent no doubt but I expect the connections are key). He performed adequately at best, I'm not sure he deserves to be feted.
In what way is it deserved? He got a job for which is handsomely rewarded, by dint of his connections (and talent no doubt but I expect the connections are key). He performed adequately at best, I'm not sure he deserves to be feted.
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In reply to Bulls Crack:
Sadly, yes. Much as I try to warm to Hamilton I struggle. Stuff like this doesn't help:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2016/11/25/lewis-hamilton-needles-nico...
To compare across sports, last week novak djokovic gave a lesson in how to behave when your underdog rival finally beats you. That reinforced his class. Hamilton should have been watching
Sadly, yes. Much as I try to warm to Hamilton I struggle. Stuff like this doesn't help:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2016/11/25/lewis-hamilton-needles-nico...
To compare across sports, last week novak djokovic gave a lesson in how to behave when your underdog rival finally beats you. That reinforced his class. Hamilton should have been watching
Post edited at 19:14
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In reply to Gone for good:
He scored more points than anyone else across a 20 race season. Like i said, hes not going to be in many peoples' 'greatest of all time' debates; but whoever does that is a worthy championship winner.
He scored more points than anyone else across a 20 race season. Like i said, hes not going to be in many peoples' 'greatest of all time' debates; but whoever does that is a worthy championship winner.
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In reply to Tyler:
Talented but not genius contender makes the most of his chances, by dint of hard work, especially with the 'backroom' staff on the team.
You'd have to be a cynic, or one eyed Hamilton fan, not to acknowledge that's a positive story. ..
Talented but not genius contender makes the most of his chances, by dint of hard work, especially with the 'backroom' staff on the team.
You'd have to be a cynic, or one eyed Hamilton fan, not to acknowledge that's a positive story. ..
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
I'd go for cynic but 'man works hard at job' is possibly a positive story if you run a hardware shop but if it's the best you can say about one of the richest and most watched sports in the world it's not so good. I know it's a motor sport rather than simply sport so it's inevitable the best car will win, I just thought all the plaudits for NR winning seemed over the top - he was just a component in the set up and not even the best one available to the team.
> You'd have to be a cynic, or one eyed Hamilton fan, not to acknowledge that's a positive story. ..
I'd go for cynic but 'man works hard at job' is possibly a positive story if you run a hardware shop but if it's the best you can say about one of the richest and most watched sports in the world it's not so good. I know it's a motor sport rather than simply sport so it's inevitable the best car will win, I just thought all the plaudits for NR winning seemed over the top - he was just a component in the set up and not even the best one available to the team.
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
He was...... in his rear view mirror.
> Hamilton should have been watching
He was...... in his rear view mirror.
Post edited at 20:45
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In reply to Indy:
He was watching tennis?
While racing?
Would certainly explain why he lost the drivers championship....
;-P
He was watching tennis?
While racing?
Would certainly explain why he lost the drivers championship....
;-P
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Over the course of the season, Nico's deserved to win it. He's shown great composure in the last few races.
However, I think Lewis may still be thinking about the races earlier in the season where Nico played dirty and dangerous on track (Spain and Austria), which wasn't becoming of a champion. Lewis has always fought hard but fair on track, and I think it's clear that he has the edge on him wheel to wheel at least.
Also, that was just a couple of days ago. Drivers will say anything to try and gain a psychological advantage leading up to a race.
> Sadly, yes. Much as I try to warm to Hamilton I struggle. Stuff like this doesn't help:
> To compare across sports, last week novak djokovic gave a lesson in how to behave when your underdog rival finally beats you. That reinforced his class. Hamilton should have been watching
Over the course of the season, Nico's deserved to win it. He's shown great composure in the last few races.
However, I think Lewis may still be thinking about the races earlier in the season where Nico played dirty and dangerous on track (Spain and Austria), which wasn't becoming of a champion. Lewis has always fought hard but fair on track, and I think it's clear that he has the edge on him wheel to wheel at least.
Also, that was just a couple of days ago. Drivers will say anything to try and gain a psychological advantage leading up to a race.
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
In a two car race, the one with fewest breakdowns won. Not the greatest sporting contest of the year.
In a two car race, the one with fewest breakdowns won. Not the greatest sporting contest of the year.
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In reply to lummox:
"Formula 1 is rubbish claims Ecclestone"....... 6 weeks AFTER he sells his stake for nearly a Billion.
"Formula 1 is rubbish claims Ecclestone"....... 6 weeks AFTER he sells his stake for nearly a Billion.
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Mostly agree - the situation's kind of different though. I'm not sure NDjok (or anyone) would be so sanguine about it if he'd lost through his racket breaking on key points.
> To compare across sports, last week novak djokovic gave a lesson in how to behave when your underdog rival finally beats you. That reinforced his class. Hamilton should have been watching
Mostly agree - the situation's kind of different though. I'm not sure NDjok (or anyone) would be so sanguine about it if he'd lost through his racket breaking on key points.
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In reply to Trevers:
Why did Hamilton deserve to lose?
> Over the course of the season, Nico's deserved to win it.
Why did Hamilton deserve to lose?
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Some of those 'backroom' staff were in Lewis Hamilton's side of the pit garage last year. Meaning that Hamilton was assigned some of Rosberg's 2016 crew.
> Talented but not genius contender makes the most of his chances, by dint of hard work, especially with the 'backroom' staff on the team.
Some of those 'backroom' staff were in Lewis Hamilton's side of the pit garage last year. Meaning that Hamilton was assigned some of Rosberg's 2016 crew.
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In reply to sebastian dangerfield:
perhaps he'd have reflected that had he played key points better, then such a racquet issue wouldn't have mattered?
similarly, if hamilton hadn't had some poor races during the season, then the engine failures wouldn't have been able to make a difference. hamilton also seems to forget that it was Massa's engine trouble with 2 laps to go back in 2009 that helped him to his first title- so, as in all sports, with 'external factors'/luck, you win some, you lose some.
probably best if hamilton took a leaf out of rosberg's book and kept his mouth shut for now- but no, he's at it again:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38126132
sad to see him diminishing himself that way. a great driver, but on this evidence, not a great champion...
perhaps he'd have reflected that had he played key points better, then such a racquet issue wouldn't have mattered?
similarly, if hamilton hadn't had some poor races during the season, then the engine failures wouldn't have been able to make a difference. hamilton also seems to forget that it was Massa's engine trouble with 2 laps to go back in 2009 that helped him to his first title- so, as in all sports, with 'external factors'/luck, you win some, you lose some.
probably best if hamilton took a leaf out of rosberg's book and kept his mouth shut for now- but no, he's at it again:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38126132
sad to see him diminishing himself that way. a great driver, but on this evidence, not a great champion...
Post edited at 12:43
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
PS, I don't particularly like Hamilton!
> if hamilton hadn't had some poor races during the season, then the engine failures wouldn't have been able to make a difference.
> hamilton also seems to forget that it was Massa's engine trouble with 2 laps to go back in 2009 that helped him to his first title- so, as in all sports, with 'external factors'/luck, you win some, you lose some.
But that's what we are saying, Rosberg was lucky to win and if it is based purely on merit Hamilton deserved it more than Rosberg as he was the better driver of the two (there may be other drivers in other teams who are better than either, or drivers in other champs that never get the chance etc but here we're talking about Rosberg or Hamilton). You say originally Rosberg deserved the win, I'm still not sure why you say that? Because he's a better driver, because he's fought his way up from the slums to reach the peak of the sport, because you think he's a nicer guy than Hamilton? I'll ask again, why did Hamilton deserve to lose?> probably best if hamilton took a leaf out of rosberg's book and kept his mouth shut for now- but no, he's at it again:
Dunno, Rosbsberg is a bit whiney himself> sad to see him diminishing himself that way. a great driver, but on this evidence, not a great champion...
You seem to be conflating the F1 world championship with a popularity contest? On your evidence I'm guessing you don't rate Schumacher, Senna or Vettel as great champions, all prone to little outbursts, tantrums (and running opponents off the road in two cases)?PS, I don't particularly like Hamilton!
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
I think it'd be extremely difficult being gracious in defeat after your team had just ordered you to give up your chances of winning the WDC fairly.
I think it'd be extremely difficult being gracious in defeat after your team had just ordered you to give up your chances of winning the WDC fairly.
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In reply to Gone for good:
"It's been a long time since anyone as unworthy won the title"
Shame to speak ill of the man in his misfortune, but would you be referring to Schumacher's first? Or maybe his second?
"It's been a long time since anyone as unworthy won the title"
Shame to speak ill of the man in his misfortune, but would you be referring to Schumacher's first? Or maybe his second?
Post edited at 19:59
In reply to Tyler:
there's no doubt that hamilton is the more talented driver; but that's the beauty of sport, the favourite doesn't always win. hamilton's greater speed and audacity in overtaking was offset by inconsistency, with a couple of bad races, and yes, more bad luck with machinery (though rosberg has had more retirements due to car failure in his career than hamilton overall). rosberg was very consistent this year, cutting out errors that he's been prone to previously. its the hare and the tortoise, to some degree, and i guess like to see the underdog win at times.
as for deserving to win- i'm just reflecting on how hard it must have been psychologically for rosberg, to have been second best to hamilton for basically his whole life, and comprehensively beaten last year, to pick himselff up and find the belief he could do it, then actually deliver. the rosberg of last year would have cracked in that run in; but he held his nerve, and did what only one other driver has done, beat hamilton as his team mate. so its nothing with hamilton 'deserving to lose', just an admiration for the 'less talented' perennial runner up finally finding what it takes within himself to take the number one spot (definitely shades of Andy Murray there, to continue the Djokovic comparison)
and no conflation at all; the best driver of 2016 in the end is the one with the most points on the board. its like football; the champions are the ones that get the most points over the season, irrespective of shoddy refereeing decisions or unfair schedules. but hamilton is clearly the greater of the two over his career, and will be rightly remembered as one of the best drivers in history.
greatness isn't just about winning races though; its about conduct too . the other drivers you mention were hard on the track, going up to the limits and sometimes over them, and that's fair enough- just as hamilton's go-slow to try to force rosberg back into traffic was. but i don't remember any of them petulantly claiming that they were the 'real' best driver after losing- and this is where hamilton risks being seen as lesser to them. i could be wrong though, maybe they did, but i dont remember any instances....
there's no doubt that hamilton is the more talented driver; but that's the beauty of sport, the favourite doesn't always win. hamilton's greater speed and audacity in overtaking was offset by inconsistency, with a couple of bad races, and yes, more bad luck with machinery (though rosberg has had more retirements due to car failure in his career than hamilton overall). rosberg was very consistent this year, cutting out errors that he's been prone to previously. its the hare and the tortoise, to some degree, and i guess like to see the underdog win at times.
as for deserving to win- i'm just reflecting on how hard it must have been psychologically for rosberg, to have been second best to hamilton for basically his whole life, and comprehensively beaten last year, to pick himselff up and find the belief he could do it, then actually deliver. the rosberg of last year would have cracked in that run in; but he held his nerve, and did what only one other driver has done, beat hamilton as his team mate. so its nothing with hamilton 'deserving to lose', just an admiration for the 'less talented' perennial runner up finally finding what it takes within himself to take the number one spot (definitely shades of Andy Murray there, to continue the Djokovic comparison)
and no conflation at all; the best driver of 2016 in the end is the one with the most points on the board. its like football; the champions are the ones that get the most points over the season, irrespective of shoddy refereeing decisions or unfair schedules. but hamilton is clearly the greater of the two over his career, and will be rightly remembered as one of the best drivers in history.
greatness isn't just about winning races though; its about conduct too . the other drivers you mention were hard on the track, going up to the limits and sometimes over them, and that's fair enough- just as hamilton's go-slow to try to force rosberg back into traffic was. but i don't remember any of them petulantly claiming that they were the 'real' best driver after losing- and this is where hamilton risks being seen as lesser to them. i could be wrong though, maybe they did, but i dont remember any instances....
Post edited at 20:28
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
I think what would have been good for Hamilton to do would have been to let Rosberg through on the last lap. He couldn't win the championship, so winning the race didn't matter by then. Perhaps there wouldn't be quite this much derision of Hamilton then.
I think what would have been good for Hamilton to do would have been to let Rosberg through on the last lap. He couldn't win the championship, so winning the race didn't matter by then. Perhaps there wouldn't be quite this much derision of Hamilton then.
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In reply to arch:
Just heard Rosberg interviewed. Came across as a nice bloke, and respectful of Hamilton. Not sure what it is about Lewis - he seems difficult to warm to in a similar way.
Just heard Rosberg interviewed. Came across as a nice bloke, and respectful of Hamilton. Not sure what it is about Lewis - he seems difficult to warm to in a similar way.
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In reply to Greenbanks:
He does now - it's easy to be gracious in vcitory. In past when things haven't been going his way, Rosberg has often come across just as bitter and petulant as Hamilton, and his on track conduct has left plenty to be desired.
> Just heard Rosberg interviewed. Came across as a nice bloke, and respectful of Hamilton. Not sure what it is about Lewis - he seems difficult to warm to in a similar way.
He does now - it's easy to be gracious in vcitory. In past when things haven't been going his way, Rosberg has often come across just as bitter and petulant as Hamilton, and his on track conduct has left plenty to be desired.
In reply to Trevers:
Not had much involvement in the world of F1. So I wouldn't know about any petulance. As a distant observer though, that comes across as Hamilton's territory.
Not had much involvement in the world of F1. So I wouldn't know about any petulance. As a distant observer though, that comes across as Hamilton's territory.
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In reply to Greenbanks:
Possibly due to the media obsession with him since he arrived in the sport.
> Not had much involvement in the world of F1. So I wouldn't know about any petulance. As a distant observer though, that comes across as Hamilton's territory.
Possibly due to the media obsession with him since he arrived in the sport.
In reply to Gone for good:
Completely unworthy. Can't even be bothered to defend his title.
Nico Rosberg retires: World champion quits Formula 1 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185846
Completely unworthy. Can't even be bothered to defend his title.
Nico Rosberg retires: World champion quits Formula 1 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185846
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In reply to Gone for good:
He doesn't seem to have motor racing in his heart, does he?
> Completely unworthy. Can't even be bothered to defend his title.
> Nico Rosberg retires: World champion quits Formula 1 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38185846
He doesn't seem to have motor racing in his heart, does he?
In reply to Gone for good:
wow. didn't see that coming.
fair play to him; go out at the top. sport is full of people who stayed on past their time, and while there is a certain degree of human drama in watching the mighty brought down by the passage of time, bowing out at the pinnacle is a dignified way to finish.
certainly makes it interesting as to who will be hamiton's teammate, doesn't it...!
wow. didn't see that coming.
fair play to him; go out at the top. sport is full of people who stayed on past their time, and while there is a certain degree of human drama in watching the mighty brought down by the passage of time, bowing out at the pinnacle is a dignified way to finish.
certainly makes it interesting as to who will be hamiton's teammate, doesn't it...!
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In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Please please please let it be Max Verstappen.
> wow. didn't see that coming.
>
> certainly makes it interesting as to who will be hamiton's teammate, doesn't it...!
Please please please let it be Max Verstappen.
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In reply to Gone for good:
Hmmm . . . . Think of a German, that has publically criticized his current team, has often complimented MB, played ball last Sunday and I think you may be closer to the mark.
Hmmm . . . . Think of a German, that has publically criticized his current team, has often complimented MB, played ball last Sunday and I think you may be closer to the mark.
Post edited at 17:11
In reply to Hugh J:
Vettel? He's still a great racer although his time at Ferrari has been disappointing.
Vettel? He's still a great racer although his time at Ferrari has been disappointing.
In reply to Gone for good:
Yes and yes it has. But Ferrari have been disappointing too.
It would be interesting to see those 2 together though, would settle some issues about who is the better driver. However, I think most know who the best 2 drivers are, though Ricciardo could also be with them by now.
It maybe that MB go for another German as a dedicated number 2 and also a protege. Given Manor's links with MB it might just be Pascal Wehrlein. He did a good job this year.
Yes and yes it has. But Ferrari have been disappointing too.
It would be interesting to see those 2 together though, would settle some issues about who is the better driver. However, I think most know who the best 2 drivers are, though Ricciardo could also be with them by now.
It maybe that MB go for another German as a dedicated number 2 and also a protege. Given Manor's links with MB it might just be Pascal Wehrlein. He did a good job this year.
Post edited at 18:01
In reply to arch:
Yes that would also be very interesting. Alonso has been held back by uncompetitive cars; would love to see him with another shot at the title.
They'd be mad to, given the history though ...
Yes that would also be very interesting. Alonso has been held back by uncompetitive cars; would love to see him with another shot at the title.
They'd be mad to, given the history though ...
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
That would be the 2 best drivers back together again. Both have matured somewhat and have more mutual respect since 2007. Can't imagine LH being too happy with it though and who knows? Maclaren might have the best car next year.
That would be the 2 best drivers back together again. Both have matured somewhat and have more mutual respect since 2007. Can't imagine LH being too happy with it though and who knows? Maclaren might have the best car next year.
Post edited at 21:54
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Wehrlein for next year, thus guaranteeing Hamilton another championship, MB get rid of both. So then Vettal and Alonso to MB for 2018. Hamilton to Ferrari. Surely Hamilton will want to race for Ferrari before he finishes ??
Wehrlein for next year, thus guaranteeing Hamilton another championship, MB get rid of both. So then Vettal and Alonso to MB for 2018. Hamilton to Ferrari. Surely Hamilton will want to race for Ferrari before he finishes ??
In reply to arch:
For me a dream season would see Lewis & Fernado fight it out in competitive Ferraris. Just a dream.......
For me a dream season would see Lewis & Fernado fight it out in competitive Ferraris. Just a dream.......
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
He wouldn't beat me on a Scalextric 300.
He could choose the colour of his Mini!
He wouldn't beat me on a Scalextric 300.
He could choose the colour of his Mini!
In reply to Tyler:
You just summed up why I stopped watching it years ago.
> I'd go for cynic but 'man works hard at job' is possibly a positive story if you run a hardware shop but if it's the best you can say about one of the richest and most watched sports in the world it's not so good. I know it's a motor sport rather than simply sport so it's inevitable the best car will win,
You just summed up why I stopped watching it years ago.
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