/ Lib Dems

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MG - on 09:27 Fri
Won
Greasy Prusiks on 09:30 Fri
MG - on 09:32 Fri
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Do you think Zac had ever held a pint of beer before? He looks a bit uncertain about what to do with it
galpinos on 09:36 Fri
In reply to MG:
As much as I like the Lib Dems, voted remain and that this brought a smile to my face this morning, this was a by-election in Richmond. I don't think it's a constituency that truly represents the spectrum on the UK's voting public. It was a very pro EU constituency and the Lib Dems made it all about the EU. The rest of the country is more divided.

(Impressive to turn over a 23,000 majority though)
Post edited at 09:37
Dave Garnett - on 09:46 Fri
In reply to galpinos:

> As much as I like the Lib Dems, voted remain and that this brought a smile to my face this morning, this was a by-election in Richmond. I don't think it's a constituency that truly represents the spectrum on the UK's voting public.

I completely agree. I know he doesn't exactly need the money, but it's also slightly sad that an MP should lose his seat as a result of being consistent, principled and doing exactly what he promised to do.

I constantly struggle to forgive him his disadvantaged upbringing - it's amazing that he grew up with such integrity considering what his father was like.
skog on 09:56 Fri
In reply to MG:

I saw an otherworldly omen of this over Rannoch Moor last Thursday. ;-)

http://ootnaboot.scot/scrapbook/20161124CKGhost.jpg
lummox - on 09:56 Fri
In reply to Dave Garnett:
ing consistent, principled and doing exactly what he promised to do.

it's amazing that he grew up with such integrity considering what his father was like.

Hmm, not a lot of evidence of integrity in his mayoral campaign.

Robert Durran - on 09:58 Fri
In reply to MG:

> Won

And I think it shows that if only the opposition parties could unite across the country on an anti Brexit ticket, there would be every chance of avoiding a hard Brexit and possibly of Brexit altogether.
MG - on 10:00 Fri
In reply to skog:

Have you examined your toast too? That's the other place premonitions occur; in the burnt bits.
moffatross on 10:02 Fri
In reply to MG:

> Do you think Zac had ever held a pint of beer before? He looks a bit uncertain about what to do with it

The subliminal image of Boris's face in his own beer glass suggests that he may be the kind of person who sometimes wears a mask ...

http://www.rossofmoffat.com/content/84f665137632bcccbeef09354e7ae2fb/
Rob Exile Ward on 10:08 Fri
In reply to moffatross:

Calling Krikoman, calling Krikoman - interested to hear your explanation of Labour's abysmal performance...
galpinos on 10:14 Fri
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I knew they were third but....... wow, that is a poor result. 12% of the vote in 2015, 4% in 2016, less than UKIP in 2015.

I know Richmond Park isn't a Labour heartland but........
Pete Pozman - on 10:14 Fri
In reply to MG:


Poor Zak. When he learns how to smoke a fag at the same time as quaffing a pint and sports a velvet collared overcoat he will have discovered the secret of political success. And despite his execrable mayoral campaign he has yet to master the art of lies.
Boris is working on developing a taste for English ale for when the Bollinger runs out post Brexit.
First morning for a long time that I have woken up to good news. Time for a progressive alliance.
The political dichotomy is no longer Left /Right, it is Progressive /Regressive.
Trevers - on 10:17 Fri
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> I completely agree. I know he doesn't exactly need the money, but it's also slightly sad that an MP should lose his seat as a result of being consistent, principled and doing exactly what he promised to do.

Have we already forgotten his mayoral campaign?
lummox - on 10:29 Fri
In reply to lummox:

LOL - yup dislikers, sending leaflets to non-Muslim Asian families to tell them that Khan would take their family gold was entirely principled wasn't it ?
The New NickB - on 10:36 Fri
In reply to galpinos:

> I knew they were third but....... wow, that is a poor result. 12% of the vote in 2015, 4% in 2016, less than UKIP in 2015.

It was tactical, I know Corbyn isn't interested in a 'progressive alliance' but plenty of Labour voter and probably party members will have held their nose and voted Lib Dem.
GrahamD - on 10:48 Fri
In reply to galpinos:

> I don't think it's a constituency that truly represents the spectrum on the UK's voting public.

Well by definition just one constituency can't represent a spectrum. All constituencies are going to be unique in their own way.
galpinos on 10:53 Fri
In reply to GrahamD:

I know, it was just my way of saying, as much as i was pleased with the result, not to read too much into it.
galpinos on 10:56 Fri
In reply to The New NickB:

I guess you're right. Maybe Labour shouldn't have fielded a candidate?
GrahamD - on 11:13 Fri
In reply to galpinos:

I remember a spitting image sketch along the lines of Call my Bluff where 3 candidates had to define "second place in a by election". Comedy classic. The serious point being, as you say, that you can interpret individual results any way you want.
Jim Fraser - on 11:14 Fri
In reply to MG:

> Do you think Zac had ever held a pint of beer before? He looks a bit uncertain about what to do with it

Yes, Zac a bit uncertain. Boris is clearly in love though.
EddInaBox on 11:20 Fri
In reply to Jim Fraser:

> ... Boris is clearly in love though.

I think he can see his own reflection in the glass.
neilh - on 11:28 Fri
In reply to MG:

Excellent. I have voted Lib dems for the last 2 elections as they were the only party who were really pro Europe...I want them to be in coalition with who ever is in power as a moderating influence.....

( that will surpirse a few of you on here)
Mike Highbury - on 11:30 Fri
In reply to The New NickB:
> It was tactical, I know Corbyn isn't interested in a 'progressive alliance' but plenty of Labour voter and probably party members will have held their nose and voted Lib Dem.

Yes, I thought that was clear to all but not, it seems.

On to more important things, is there any chance of building a similar LibDem-led alliance in the constituency where I live?
Mike Highbury - on 11:31 Fri
In reply to neilh:
> Excellent. I have voted Lib dems for the last 2 elections as they were the only party who were really pro Europe...I want them to be in coalition with who ever is in power as a moderating influence..... ( that will surpirse a few of you on here)

Yes it does given how poorly they performed the role.
Dave Garnett - on 11:44 Fri
In reply to Trevers:

> Have we already forgotten his mayoral campaign?


Well I obviously have. Mayor of where?
Mike Highbury - on 11:46 Fri
In reply to Dave Garnett:
> Well I obviously have. Mayor of where?

Now, now, no need to be quite so catty.
Offwidth - on 11:48 Fri
lummox - on 11:49 Fri
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> Well I obviously have. Mayor of where?

The Mayor of a town down South, the mayor of said town was accused of being mates with terrorists by the highly principled ex MP Zac Goldsmith.
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Gordon Stainforth - on 11:57 Fri
In reply to MG:

Phew! There is hope yet.
Dave Garnett - on 12:33 Fri
In reply to Offwidth:

OK, looks like I can stop struggling to feel sorry for him and accept that maybe he did learn a thing or two from his dad.

He did stick to his guns and resign as he said he would though.
neilh - on 12:38 Fri
In reply to Mike Highbury:

As always in politics there are +/- and different opinions
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 12:43 Fri
In reply to Mike Highbury:

we weren't brexiting when they were in coalition. given the fuss that appears to have led to, its looks like they maybe were some use in government after all
Cú Chullain - on 13:26 Fri
In reply to Robert Durran:

> And I think it shows that if only the opposition parties could unite across the country on an anti Brexit ticket, there would be every chance of avoiding a hard Brexit and possibly of Brexit altogether.

Doubt it, it is the worst kept secret that Corbyn was pro-Brexit and given the party's current civil war and their inability to unite themselves let alone form an alliance with any other party makes any such nationwide political coalition against Brexit unlikely.

Plus, Labour need to vote for Article 50 or most of their MPs are finished.

At the end of the day, as alluded to already, at national level a bunch of middle class Londoners from the second most wealthiest borough in the UK voting for a Remain platform is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. At best the Lib Dems now might have to book a second table down the curry house for their Christmas bash.

Wanderer100 - on 13:34 Fri
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

You are aware the conservatives didn't field a candidate? If they had done so this result might have looked very different.
lummox - on 13:35 Fri
In reply to Cú Chullain:

On the other hand, two of the three f*cktards charged with negotiating Brexit seem to be rowing back, so anything is possible..
KevinD - on 13:35 Fri
In reply to Wanderer100:

> You are aware the conservatives didn't field a candidate? If they had done so this result might have looked very different.

Unlikely since he was their candidate for all intents and purposes.
damhan-allaidh on 13:36 Fri
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I have passionately posted about this in the past - but now found an infographic to save the trouble of doing it again:
http://www.markpack.org.uk/libdem-infographic/

Wanderer100 - on 13:52 Fri
In reply to KevinD:

> Unlikely since he was their candidate for all intents and purposes.

He ran as an independent, the Conservatives felt they ought to give him a clear run.

In hindsight it backfired. The Lib Dem vote doubled , Partyless Zak Goldsmiths vote halved from the 2015 General Election.
Having said that it is a swing seat, Lib Dem 1997,2001, 2005 and Conservative 2010 and 2015.
The Labour vote has always been miniscule in this constituency so no surprise they drew a low count again.
KevinD - on 14:49 Fri
In reply to Wanderer100:

> He ran as an independent, the Conservatives felt they ought to give him a clear run.

They also gave him support to a reasonable degree. Obviously not to the level the libdems did but I dont think there was any doubt he was really the tory candidate.

> Having said that it is a swing seat, Lib Dem 1997,2001, 2005 and Conservative 2010 and 2015.

He didnt have any clear way to distinguish himself positively from the libdems and two massive negatives. The fact he was clearly for leaving the EU went against 70% in his constituency and also his absolutely appalling mayoral campaign.

Its not clear how it spins out on a larger scale. After all the lesson that voters might punish the MP for differing from them on Brexit goes both ways.

Wanderer100 - on 15:12 Fri
In reply to KevinD:

The fact he was clearly for leaving the EU went against 70% in his constituency and also his absolutely appalling mayoral campaign.

Very true.

> Its not clear how it spins out on a larger scale. After all the lesson that voters might punish the MP for differing from them on Brexit goes both ways.

That theory won't be properly tested until 2020.
Hugh J - on 17:50 Fri
In reply to Mike Highbury:

> Yes it does given how poorly they performed the role.

So are you saying that the Tories are making a better fist of things now they have been unshackled?
Greasy Prusiks on 18:06 Fri
In reply to MG:

No I doubt it.

He looked like he thought it could give him leprosy or some other commoner disease.
David Martin - on 07:19 Sat
In reply to Cú Chullain:

Not sure it's true to say Corbyn is probably Brexit.

More a case of him disliking the pro-business, neo-liberal and finance sector elit heavy leadership of the EU.

I think if push comes to shove Corbyn is probably EU but he hates being seen amongst and doesnt feel one of its great and powerful.
neilh - on 08:28 Sat
In reply to David Martin:

Toby benn was an opponent of the Euro as he considered it undemocratic. It's a fair bet that Corbyn views it in the same way
The New NickB - on 10:22 Sat
In reply to The New NickB:

> It was tactical, I know Corbyn isn't interested in a 'progressive alliance' but plenty of Labour voter and probably party members will have held their nose and voted Lib Dem.

It appears the total number of votes counted for the Labour candidate is actually less than the number of Labour Party members in the constituency. Fairly clear evidence of large scale tactical voting, even from party members.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 10:34 Sat
In reply to The New NickB:

Either that or the local labour party was stuffed with tories joining in order to get a vote in the labour leadership election for reasons of mischief making.

(Not intended as an *entirely* serious suggestion...)

;-)
marsbar - on 10:49 Sat
BnB - on 11:35 Sat
In reply to The New NickB:

> It appears the total number of votes counted for the Labour candidate is actually less than the number of Labour Party members in the constituency. Fairly clear evidence of large scale tactical voting, even from party members.


I'm afraid it runs much deeper than that. My oldest and best friend was one of those 1,600 constituency members, and he, along with a number of others, tore up his Labour party membership and posted the torn up strips on Faceook about a week ago. This, having been one of Corbyn's 500,000 new members only recently. He described the party in unflattering terms to say the least. He's a left-leaning graduate in History from Oxford University, so his view carries some weight in my book, personal allegiances notwithstanding.
Mike Highbury - on 12:05 Sat
In reply to BnB:
> He described the party in unflattering terms to say the least.

This is interesting, possibly. Why is he and his pals leaving the party? Is he a Momentum member or a post-election joiner? And why did he leaving?

EddInaBox on 12:17 Sat
BnB - on 12:34 Sat
In reply to Mike Highbury:

> This is interesting, possibly. Why is he and his pals leaving the party? Is he a Momentum member or a post-election joiner? And why did he leaving?

He joined at the time of Corbyn's accession. He described the experience of membership as enlightening as to to how clueless and irrelevant the "modern" Labour Party turned out to be.
Dave Garnett - on 19:21 Sat
In reply to marsbar:
All pretty unpleasant although more an attack on Corbyn and Livingstone than Khan.

The inability of the Mail subeditor to make verbs agree with their subjects is pretty disturbing too.
Post edited at 19:22
bouldery bits - on 19:25 Sat
In reply to MG:

Come on Tim!
Jim C - on 21:00 Sat
In reply to galpinos:

> As much as I like the Lib Dems, voted remain and that this brought a smile to my face this morning, this was a by-election in Richmond. I don't think it's a constituency that truly represents the spectrum on the UK's voting public. It was a very pro EU constituency and the Lib Dems made it all about the EU. The rest of the country is more divided.

> (Impressive to turn over a 23,000 majority though)

Only a 50% turnout I heard, given the issues, and publicity, I expected voters to care more than they did.
Big Ger - on 21:12 Sat
In reply to neilh:

> Toby benn was an opponent of the Euro as he considered it undemocratic. It's a fair bet that Corbyn views it in the same way

"This huge Commission building in Brussels, in the shape of a cross, is absolutely un-British. I felt as if I were going as a slave to Rome; the whole relationship was wrong. Here was I, an elected man who could be removed, doing a job, and here were these people with more power than I had and no accountability to anybody...My visit confirmed in a practical way all my suspicions that this would be the decapitation of British democracy without any countervailing advantage, and the British people, quite rightly, wouldn't accept it. There is no real benefit for Britain."
Diary entry (18 June 1974), quoted from Against the Tide. Diaries 1973-1976
davidalcock - on 22:43 Sat
In reply to MG:

Interesting news from the North East. From 42/58 remain/leave in June, a poll now says 73/27.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-east-now-wants-stay-12258741

Labour needs to wake up and smell the decaff/chamomile (or whatever the messiah drinks).
pec on 20:38 Sun
In reply to BnB:

> He joined at the time of Corbyn's accession. He described the experience of membership as enlightening as to to how clueless and irrelevant the "modern" Labour Party turned out to be. >

He needed to join them to find that out? ... and I thought Oxford graduates were supposed to be bright ;-)

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