UKC

A lot of climbers use pull-ups to train strength. This video shows you how to maintain good form and structure a session.

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In reply to UKC Articles:

It's interesting that the rest periods you use are only 2 minutes. Wouldn't longer rests be more suited to maximal strength training?

In reply to UKC Articles:

Run through that calculation for weight to use after finding yr 1RM please, add bodyweight plus weight lifted then find 80% of that? Do you just mean 80% of 1RM?

In reply to stp:

3-5 minutes rest between sets is pretty standard for maximum strength.

In reply to JayPee630:

I assume so, but where 1rm is defined as "total weight pulled" rather than "amount on top of bodyweight pulled" (i.e. 100kg not 25kg for a 75kg person who can pull BW+25)

In reply to AJM:

Yeah, but then that would be sets using 80kg total? Ah, would that be 75kg bodyweight plus 5kg?

Not seen it calculated that way before, found it a bit unclear.

In reply to UKC Articles:

I think I read somewhere that pulling that high up should be avoided, as it increases the risk of tennis elbow (?). Any truth to this or is my memory playing tricks on me.

In reply to JayPee630:

I've logged stuff as total weight pulled/hung/whatever for ages - seperates the impact of weight gain/loss from any strength gains - but I guess it depends what you're used to.

But yes, you'd use additional/reduced weight on top of your bodyweight to get to the set weight level. 

In reply to AJM:

That then means weighing yourself lots! I've only done added weight pulled. Never added bodyweight into the calculation for any other strength exercise.

In reply to stp:

I'd love to see some actual science behind rest times, number of sets, number of repetitions etc depending on goals. It all seems totally adhoc and a bit random. Are there any papers on this? Any correlation to measurable indicators such as heart rate, respiration etc?

In reply to planetmarshall:

HR not a good indicator for strength training. There's shit tonnes of stuff out there on best rest/reps/sets for strength/endurance/etc. though. Probably one of the most researched areas in training.

In reply to JayPee630:

Once per session? 

In reply to JayPee630:

There's certainly a lot of 'stuff', but not much on exactly *why* certain rest periods or numbers of sets are chosen. Why three sets of ten rather than two sets of 15? Or one of 30? Why a two minute rest? Why not three minutes? Or two and half? It all seems so arbitrary.

In reply to stp:

Here's a good review of the research (TL;DR, 3 minutes for 50-90% of 1 RM)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26752129_Rest_Interval_between_Set...

J.M Willardson appears to be a key researcher in this area.

 

 

 

In reply to JayPee630:

Yeah that's what I had always thought, even longer if needed. That's why I was interested in why they suggest only 2 mins.

In reply to planetmarshall:

The idea behind long rests for strength as I understand it is that strength isn't just about the size of your muscles. You are also training your nervous system. The aim is to maximize the number of muscle fibres to fire at the same time. To do that you want your muscles to be as fresh as possible so longer rests help with that.

For bodybuilding (bigger muscles) then doing higher rep sets with shorter rests is better. The idea here is to break down muscle tissue so it grows back bigger.

There's a good 12m video explaining the different routines for different goals.

youtube.com/watch?v=PQQ3vLn9BVw&

In reply to Jubjab:

Pulling too far on pull ups can definitely upset your elbows though it's not so much about how high above the bar you go. I think it's more about trying to pull beyond your elbows natural range of motion. This will be different for different people. People with big biceps will have to stop earlier because their flexed biceps will halt the movement before someone with thinner arms.

At that point you can still pull further but you don't do it by trying to bend your arms more. Instead you retract your shoulder blades and try to pull your upper arm back so your elbows go further back behind your body. This will result in you pulling your chest to the bar. This is quite a bit harder than a normal pull up though.

In reply to stp:

From the research I've read, the aim is to maintain a consistent volume at a particular intensity. So at, say 75-90% of maximum, longer rests are needed to maintain a consistent number of repetitions in each set.

Well, "break down muscle tissue so it grows back bigger" is a bit vague and hand-wavy for me. I could break down my muscle tissue by stabbing myself with a fork, but I wouldn't expect it to grow back bigger.

From the research, repeated efforts before the muscle is fully rested result in the elevated production of growth hormone, which is what stimulates hypertrophy.

 

In reply to planetmarshall:

Interesting. I hadn't heard that before. So does that imply growth hormone is produced locally in the muscle then? I thought it was more of a global thing. I think there are some claims that fasting increases growth hormone levels.

In reply to UKC Articles:

A couple more questions about the video.

1. How often should one perform these workouts?

2. How do you introduce progression? Adding reps, or weight and if so by how much and how often?

In reply to stp:

Isn't the answer to (2) that as you get stronger, 80% of your maximum gets higher, hence you should be training with more weight. You need to re-benchmark fairly regularly.

I did this workout the other night. I felt it was too easy. I did the sets at 80% of my 1rm but 5 sets of 4 reps at that weight wasn't really as challenging as I'd expected. It felt more like it would have been a good weight for short endurance type training if I had used shorter rests.

Some good questions here!

1. Progression. Depending on your age, experience, training history etc you would be looking at 1-3x/week for this session (most likely 2x though) and progression will depend on your goal. First step will be to increase intensity rather than reps (although this can still be used as a tool to break through a plateau). Increases in weight are typically 1kg and I would suggest that a safe method is to complete 2 full sessions before moving the intensity up a notch. 

2. % of intensity. A lot of this will come down to your training experience and age. Go higher the more experienced you are and lower if relatively new to strength and conditioning work. I would always advise "playing safe" to start with and if the sessions feel easy after a few weeks, then bump it up. It's so much better to be slow and progressive, than take big risks. 

3. Rests. You can certainly use 2 min rests, but if you're losing form too early or failing then increase to 3+ minutes. Remember that we're not machines and no matter how much you read research papers (and I love them as much as anyone!) there's some give and play in the reps, sets, rests and %'s. If in doubt, get a trusted friend or coach to watch over you. 

4. Distance of pull. This is highly variable. I've seen climbers develop golfer's elbow almost at the whiff of a pull up bar and others who seem impervious to hours of deep locks, weighted lock work and campusing. Of course the greater the angle (under higher loads) you stress the joint in, then the risk increases. I suffered GE for years, but after 18 months of consistent shoulder S&C it's been gone for over a year and pull ups, locks, campus don't aggravate it in even the slightest - and it would have bought it on within 1-2 session a few years back! 

 

In reply to Tom Randall - Lattice Training:

Which excercises specifically did you do? I've been doing some low intensity military press (sets of 20 reps) but not with any scientific reasoning.

 

In reply to Tom Randall - Lattice Training:

Thanks for the info Tom.

Any thoughts on this? My fingerboards are attached to the rafters in my cellar, which is low-ceilinged. As such I can't get any higher in a pullup than having my nose level with the top of the board before my head hits the roof, so it's not a complete deep lock. I think one of the main benefits I would be looking for from pullups is static deep lock ability. Based on your bio-mechanical understanding of the arm, do you think strength benefits from 'short' pull ups would transfer to deep locks, or do you think it's critical to train the full range of movement?

In reply to Tyler:

So what I did was to follow Ollie Torr's strength and conditioning training for the shoulders and back - much that I hate to give my partner too much credit, that lad knows his stuff

It was a combination of:

1. IYTs on rings

2. Plenty of shoulder (scapular) stability exercises

3. Both single AND double arm dead hang work

4. Some basic S&C work for shoulders that was free-weight based. 

 

It did take a lot of effort and consistency, but I would do it all again in an instance because being free of GE is bloomin' amazing. I hated it! 

In reply to Tom Randall - Lattice Training:

Thanks Tom, much appreciated 

In reply to Si dH:

I'm not a fan of deep lock work on a pull up bar/FB for improving lock off. I think there's too much risk and it's not (overall) worth it for the general population. I have to be a bit careful on answers as I know lots of people read these from varying degrees of experience, grade and training history. 

So mine (and Ollie's) preferred method is to look at improving the ability to lock through isolated drills in both the shoulder AND the arm. You're looking at exercises on the TRX/rings/weights that stabilise the shoulder joint (in a position that's better for locks) and then also weights work around the bicep and brachioradialis function. 

 

Hope that helps!