UKC

Hi all, been climbing for ever, and dabbled with training over the years including using the Lattice/Crimpd app and plans.

I'm wondering what other recommended options are out there. Once I start looking around on Facebook, Instagram etc. there's a mountain of options, at all different price ranges, all claiming to be amazing lol.

I've seen options from Gresham, Matt Wright, Catalyst and others buy I've no idea if they're any good (i doubt any are useless). 🙂

If it matters I climb all disciplines to a decent level (E6/7a/7a) but feel I could defo improve with a bit of training.

Please don't just say climb more, I climb more than anyone else I know already, and I've defo seen benefits in the past with a bit of structure 🙂 xx

Climb more :p

knowing you (I could be very wrong as i know nothing about training and do similar to you) but I suspect some of it comes down to the quality of the climbing you do not the volume. Doing a few (or even a lot of) trad E1-3s on a cold winters day is not going to improve you climbing compared to working a 7B-C boulder problem or a similar in the summer vs working hard sport routes as you never get the intensity or learn to climb on smaller holds or harder sequences. Being able to climb 5c all day long is great endurance but doesn't help if the route involves 6b moves. 

You're defo right, but the problem is, if I get on something too hard for a single session, I just feel like I'm out of my depth and should drop my grade. When I have had projects that have taken multiple sessions, I've never felt joy from ticking them, just a feeling of "thank god I don't have to go on that again" 😅.

Personally I feel that I could see positive returns by structuring my indoor sessions, rather than just going down the wall, playing about, and heading home (via the kebab shop).

Might be worth looking into some of the mental side of things - it sounds from the above like you would benefit a lot from spending time at your physical limit, which is challenging for you (and many!) to de mentally. As for resources there are some good articles on here, and I can recommend Climb Smarter (Williams). I suspect you'll get tips for the Moffat book, but I didn't find it that handy. 

I’d absolutely recommend Neil Gresham. I’ve did one of his 12 week lockdown plans, and it absolutely had a positive effect on my climbing. 

Can pretty much guarantee if you get one of his plans, and stick to it, it’ll work.

I’ve also heard good things about Lattice plans.

I see you are Sheffield based. If you go down the Works at all then hit me up if you're looking for someone to train with/bounce around ideas.

Regarding training - it's a science but application to the individual is an art.

Everything you need is out there and for most of us in our training journey, a good plan should tackle a specific goal (or two,), and be quite simple.

But, buying a training plan takes the thought/effort out of it and paying £££ will help keep you focused because you'll have skin in the game.

I've tried various. Personally, I think most online plans are a bit samey and you probably know enough from experience to design your own.

I would pay for personal coaching, but I wouldn't pay for another online plan - as the thing I struggle with most with training plans is staying motivated enough to follow them.

For what it's worth, I have never found this to be the case.

I think Graeme is right in that you would definitely benefit from focusing on hard bouldering.

For decades I would go inside during the winter and do laps and laps and laps.... (you get the idea) of routes that I could do reasonably easily. I was fit, but never got much stronger and was on a plateau for a long time. I started bouldering and trying really hard on boulders a lot more and found that I got stronger and better on routes. Of course, adding some specific endurance training in as well.

In my early fifties I on-sighted 7c for the first time. I put a lot of that down to the bouldering.

Alright, serious answer. 

An approach I find works is: 'find the problem, fix the problem.' 

I think a plan to 'get better at climbing' is a little too vague. 

Something specific like 'The thing I find holding me back on routes is pinch strength. Therefore I need a program to develop pinch strength.' ofcourse, identifying this correctly isn't easy. An external eye may help. 

Sounds like you're doing pretty great by the way!! 

Take care,

BB

Ps, I thought it was funny! Everyone's taking. The internet too seriously again....

lol, don't worry, I didn't notice 🙂

I genuinely don't know my weaknesses, but I'll have an ask about. 🙂

Thanks Shani, I appreciate that. I'll give you a shout next time I'm down The Works

Ha, don't worry. My first reply was going to be "pull harder and hang on longer", but I bottled it and gave a boring serious response.

Well done for following the OTE mentality!

CB.

Serious answer, because all the above kind of assume you know what the problem is , and what you're trying to fix - then a program is easy.

If however you don't know what your weakness is, then get a coach. Or at least talk to one, because the big benefit is the independent point of view based on 'combat experience' of improving other people.

I guess everyone is different, but this has definitely helped me in the past.

Jumping straight to a training plan probably won't do much good if you don't know 1. Specifically what you want to achieve and 2. Specifically what is holding you back.

I was in a similar situation last year - climbing forever but had plateaued around 7c for ages. Ended up doing an assessment with Steve McClure (highly recommended) to find out why. 6 months of focussing on what he identified and I'm ticking way more stuff than I have been for 10 years.

I'd recommend spending some face to face time with a pro working out what you want and what's stopping you before spending money on a generic training plan.

Gresham, climbs hard, knows a lot about training
Matt W, climbs hard
Catalyst, I don't know
Lattice, no one has more data driven stuff than them, plans tend to be quite full on

Personally I'd recommend an in person assessment with a decent coach above any off the shelf plan.

Cheers for the reply. My training is 100% bouldering, and although it feels like I'm trying to climb at my bouldering limit perhaps I'm not (although it really feels like it 😅).

I'll have a go at telling you what you're rubbish at 🙃

Strengths: dynamic movement, committing to goey moves, full body strength (shoulders and core), methodical approach to trad routes (such as pacing, placing and assessing your gear, working stuff out), never seeming to get tired on long days, good try-hard gusto.

What I think you should work on: finger strength (particularly on tiny edges), keeping tension through poor and slopey footholds (technical not strength issue), recovering at marginal rests / on steep ground, power endurance, flexibility. 

I also think that you (much like me) have a very broad pyramid, and so you'd benefit from just getting on some routes onsight above your grade. You're very good at cruising up to a fairly high grade, but just slightly above that grade you start to struggle much more! This could be an endurance issue but I don't really feel like I can judge what causes it to be honest.

I think that this is quite imbalanced IMO. Honestly not intending to piss on your chips (especially since you did StT recently!) but for trad OS (which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what you are most keen for) your grade is a bit lower than that - but either way I think sport 7a is much lower than bouldering 7A! Again, this could be explained as a power endurance issue. 

If anything, I'd suggest you climb a bit less! This would mean that you'd be more recovered to actually try nearer your max more often.

Obviously I'm no coach, and since I doubt you would want to sacrifice being out climbing for training, this next bit is just a stab in the dark 🙂 but if I were you, I think I'd try a couple of five board sessions each week focusing on max hangs on micros (half crimp and full crimp), a couple of sessions of doing lots and lots of easy laps on circuits (i.e. aeroCap, so do say 4x4s on 6a's at the depot, which shouldn't leave you tired), do one session a week of hard circuits (i.e. redpointing them), avoid climbing too much at the depot at the setting style plays to your strengths and avoids your weaknesses, get on the board once or twice a week, stretch for ten minutes each day.

Obviously if my guesses about your strengths and weakness are off at the start of this post then the rest will be wrong too! I'd like to hear how far off you think I am though. 

Bouldering is not the best way to develop max finger strength.

Finger strength is grip-specific and so needs specific exercises to force adaption.

The volume, frequency & intensity necessary to force adaption are pretty well known in strength training circles and you are unlikely to hit an ideal protocol when bouldering.

That's not to say you can't get strong fingers from bouldering!

Really appreciate the in-depth reply!

Although I genuinely have no idea what my weaknesses are they all seem so obvious when you've written them down. The thought of doing max hangs on micros is making me quiver with fear so that's obviously something I should improve 😅 I find board sessions quite intimidating too, as it can often feel like I'm a little out of my depth compared to the 'big boys & girls' but I'm sure I can overcome that lol.

We should go down the wall or I'll come and play on your board and we can go through it a bit more indepth 👍

I created a tool where you define your current max climbing grade and go through a bunch of tests. You can test whatever you feel that might be an issue or just do every test which is quite time taking. It is at https://test4climbing.com

After the tests (in the analytics section) you can see your results in front of other climbers results so it is quite intuitive to help you identify your weaknesses and strenghts.

Any comments are welcome... but maybe in other thread as I don't won't to do the mess with other, somewhat related, topic. 

A friend of mine paid for a personal trainer for 12 sessions over a year. Once a month he gets a new Excel sheet with a 45 minutes video call

He's improved so much now he does muscle-ups as warm up.

I know two people who have had plans from Gresham, both are now injured. I'm sure NG knows his onions, so take from that what you will 

I had a plan off Neil in 2019...Nothing but praise for him as got me over a plateau I'd but stuck at for years.

I think you need to have a sense of what project you are training FOR in order to decide who you trust to provide a suitable training plan. I struggled with this in 2022 when training for a classic 300m alpine rock route. When I looked into advice on training I found 2 completely conflicting schools of thought: the mountaineering school that says mainly train cardio fitness and ability to carry heavy loads (e.g. the book Training for the New Alpinism), versus the climber school of training by doing technical climbing while not carrying a load. I got a Gresham training plan which emphasised climbing endurance, at the expense of both power and cardio fitness for carrying a pack. In reality I struggled with the weight of my pack walking and climbing, so in hindsight I think I should have worked a lot more on power (both legs and climbing) plus more cardio fitness. I imagine most people face less extreme contrasts in approach, though! 

i believe this is where assessment part of lattice training is supposed to excel? As it systematically tests across all areas and compares you with the general climbing population to identofy areas to work on.