UKC

Not sure if this is the right forum but it definitely relates to climbing.

High Lodore Farmhouse which was home to Shepherd's Cafe - one of the last great climbers cafes (that sadly closed a few years ago) is on the market. Unfortunately the sale does not include the large parking area by the gate.

Any climbers with a spare £1.2 million willing to get this institution back up and running? The large barn would make a great bunkhouse and I guess the whole building would make a great club hut.

Many people on here will have happy memories of tea and Martin's scones after climbing at Sheps.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146752628#/?channel=RES_BUY

Without that parking, it's a tough one for a business. Probably will be turned into someone's 3rd home

At that price it won't be viable as a cafe. Say you make £1k/week letting the guest house. 25% down, borrow 900k, at even just 3% that's 27k/yr interest, so at 54% occupancy you cover it. Plus energy costs, furnishings, insurance etc etc..

Versus trying to make that living on site running a cafe without a car park. 

Mm... In short, overpriced... And high prices only serve bankers.

It won't sell for that as those with those kind of funds expect better parking / access. 

TBH I was surprised how reasonable the price is, make it into 3 units and sell at 600k each. What it does highlight is the disparity between the North and the South East.
Possibly a buy for the CC, they have the money, and the Grange Hut is sub optimal.

Good in theory but there isn't the parking for 3 units and you'd not get the planning through in the park for a listed building conversion like that. 

The Grange hut is brilliant and has parking. The big problem with it is the enormous space in the living room and the ineffectual heating system which can't heat the main room in winter.

No, the Grange hut is not brilliant, that is total tripe. It is very pleasant and a nice place to camp, and a reasonable walk to many crags but it is not brilliant. 

I’ve stayed there and thought it was great. Late summer and the only residents for a week mind you.

We did think it’d be nippy in the winter.

The carpark was a bit of detriment, as climbers used to park there, go climbing, then brew up on a stove next to the car rather than use the cafe…

We would always buy a brew and snack, often before and after. But yes, many didn't. 

My understanding was that Grange was on a leasehold that required the building to be returned in its original format. Hence it was not worth worth changing the layout such as putting in a mezzanine floor in the main room which would be better use of 1.2million

Is this correct?

Unfortunately I believe this is the case. I doubt that the club is going to put much effort in to finding an alternative lake District hut until the next lease renewal comes up and we have saved up some more money as we have spent a lot on Ynys (which now looks much better inside than previously).

This isn't to say that the CC is currently hard up, but we probably don't have enough to go and buy a new building, do a conversion on it to make it a hut and then handle something like another series of lock downs.

And anyway, i cant see any club setting out to knowingly buy a hut without adequate parking

If I had that kind of money to spend on a property in the Lakes, there are probably nicer options.

To turn it back into a cafe/bunkhouse at that price would probably require someone for whom that kind of money is totally disposable and they were doing it out of pure altruism. Doesn't seem likely.

'Total tripe' seems a bit harsh, especially as you wrote:

'It is very pleasant and a nice place to camp, and a reasonable walk to many crags'

Granted it doesn't have a hot tub, granite worktop or infinity pool but it is a climbing hut after all, costing £7.50 a night. Not too shabby.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143818628#/?channel=RES_BUY

Same price bracket, area, only bigger and in it's own 6 acres. 

That does make the shepherds cafe/farmhouse look pretty overpriced. Not that I'll be bidding on either!

There are much much nicer in that price range. Also the overall condition of the property, and having to renovate it under the auspices of grade II listing. And a relatively busy road on the doorstep.

First thing I'd do is strip the paint off and stain those beams

Had a look at it. For a million quid house i think interior is pretty naff, but it's a question of taste. 

That place brings back fond memories for my wife and I.  Having egg on toast for breakfast before leisurely climbing there. Great days.  Loved the place .0

Is the footpath through the farm to the crag a right of way? Or is it permissive according to the whim of the current and future owner? 

Public FP on map:

The cafe reminds me of my first ever trip to the Lakes.  You left me and Phil Spinks at Shepherd's, telling us you'd pick us up at 6pm.  We had lots of coffee and cake because around about 6pm, you realised it might be time to leave Scafell and come to rescue us.....

Happy days 😜

So hard to set a price on a place like that.   Unique!

It's had a coat of whitewash but not much more by the look of it.  Much of it is bordering on uninhabitable as presented - which is unsurprising as much of it is ancient farm outbuildings.

Probably needs a conversation with the planners and specialist local architect to see what's possible.  

Whenever I went to the crag - 15 years ago at least  - if I/we parked,  we spent money in the cafe - that's just common decency.

That house is not a good buy IMO. Great views of Skiddaw but it gets very little sun - none in the evenings. Most of the land is steep overgrown forest and there is not much room for parking. It is however fairly close to the awesome Skelgil Quarry

I'm sure there are nicer properties for the money but for use as a club hut or bunkhouse High Lodore Farm has a pretty amazing location and there would be parking for at least 8 cars.

FRCC, CC or BMC should buy it.

This sort of thing really hacks me off. If it's a public carpark fair enough but not the customer's carpark. 

Holiday homes and/or airBnB are my prediction. It's probable that a fair bit of work is needed and that kind of sum is more reflective of property prices in London or Edinburgh. It would be good if a club bought it.

The thing I'll never understand is how that enormous spa got permission to desecrate the valley with its sprawling development for oligarch minibreaks... disgusting failure by the national park authority, IMO.

You mean that quite tastefully done (IMHO) building that seems to be used by many locals too for the early morning swim sessions that anyone can book as gifts etc (well that's the only time I've been there and spoken to other swimmers anyway)? And a handy provider of a bit of local employment too I should think?

Yes, I mean that eyesore built exclusively for the wealthy (local elites included) that comprises two pompous buildings obscuring a waterfall. The one that has an ugly purpose built customer carpark stretching out into the lake, full of SUVs and status mobiles. A rolls royce was pulling out yesterday. The one that manages to heat an outdoor pool in a conjuncture when approaching 10% of UK households are in debt to their fuel companies and old ladies ride the bus to keep warm... not to speak of imminent climate catastrophe. Every time I look out across Derwent water from the top of Shepherds, my eye snags on it and I vomit a little in the back of my mouth. I hope one day it melts and evaporates. Before long, the Lakes will be a boutique experience only for the wealthiest. It's already getting to the point where many ordinary people (i.e. people not in the top 10% of earners) cannot afford to stay there under a roof (excepting climbing club huts) and soon won't be able to afford even the campsites that are increasingly being overtaken by glamping and autohomes.

Gosh, there's a lot in there. Car park extension into Lake? Not correct,  car park is on the left as you head up the valley, and the lake is the other side of the road...and that I don't recall being moved?

As I've swum there, as a bit of a special treat, guess that chucks me into a bracket you seem to dislike? Ah well. 

Not sure some of the other stuff you list is entirely correct either.  Obscuring a waterfall? You could be right, but from where, as even in winter I don't remember seeing that much if that from the road?

An easy assessment is also to decide that wealthy visitors (root of all evil) are the cause of the general upgrade in the standard of accommodation,  and increase in prices. Its nothing like as simple as that and more people holidaying in the UK, and oddly wanting something nice is as much a part of what is changing. I see this happening everywhere,  so it isn't just down to an elite as far I can see.

Fair comment about the steamy outdoor pool and climate change.

Quality rant

I thought it was great, and as it's the first and only time it's ever been implied that I am part of an elite,  I've forwarded copies to all my friends and family.  She thought it was great too.

I'm not trying to hate on you or any specific individuals. It just saddens me to see this beautiful valley desecrated for a purpose that is so exclusive and anti-social. It is part of a much broader situation in which the luxury economy is booming whilst everyone else feels like they're being flushed down the drain.

There is a waterfall, by the by (the spa is literally called the "Lodore Falls Hotel & Spa"), and there is a newish (4 yrs old?) tarmacked, walled and gated carpark on the lake side which you can see on Google maps or in person.

By the by, another Cumbrian spa is almost directly opposite the Kurt Schwitters Merz-barn, near Elterwater/Chapel-le-Stile. The fact that this important cultural site has struggled to secure funding, whilst the wealthy pamper themselves a few hundred metres away at c.£500/night, says everything you need to know about the barbarism and philistinism of the so-called "culture" of our so-called "society".

All best.

The answer to your question of how it got permission is flood resilience. This was a planning initiative following 2 rather serious folds in the area, affecting many homes and businesses.

Hate it all you like Wolfie but the lodore isn't going anywhere this side of the glorious day.

Or you could take advantage, park there to use shepherds, buy a brew/pint before or after climbing, the gate code will be on your receipt. This will cost a touch more than usual but with NT parking at £8 a day makes some sense.

The glory days of the cafe are long gone. It always amazed me that it stayed as it was for so long.

Joining the NTS has been a good investment for trips to the Lakes and selected spots in Scotland too.

Really? I'm sure that carpark (behind the staff accomodation and service buildings) has been there for years?

Interesting propaganda saying the hotel is necessary as a flood defence... I'll happily take the "Wolfie" nickname - I like the sound of it. Never been to Tooting, though.

P.s. I didn't dislike any of these posts - that's someone else.

It is not Brilliant.
The Dorms are poor, it is hard to heat up, and there is a question mark over wether or not one can park a Campervan or sleep in a van there, not even a decent pub nearby.

Brilliant huts are,
Brackenclose
Robertson Lamb
Count House
Lowenstern
Low House, (next to a chippy and a pub).
I could name others, but I am sure you get the point. Grange is good for the moment, infact as you say not to shabby, but if an opportunity came up, it could be improved upon.

I thought it fitted well with my glorious day comment.

Flood Re is how they got it through planning. Hotel is open to all and whilst it may be a pricey cuppa, if you factor in a day's parking, it works out very reasonable.

I would rather vomit in a cup, microwave it, and reconsume it... But parking elsewhere may be less arduous.

p.s. dislikes on post are due to old wealthy cranks being disproportionately represented on UKC. I enjoy every dislike as a vibrant sign of my youthful radicalism. You'll all be first against the wall.

Best,

Wolfie

Tooting Committee Against Spas and for Red Squirrels

Langdale Estate was already a holiday resort when Mr Schwitter built his studio! 

Interesting. And Kurt Schwitters lived in poverty back then, despite being an important and groundbreaking modernist artist. Barbarism and philistinism have a long pedigree.

LOL, you are no longer young, and you are not radical, you are a grumpy old man in an early middle age body.

 

Never mind the parking, that would be much cheaper than lunch at the Lodore. You could eat it by Leatheside Dub sewage works.

I wouldnt recommend that for someone of your delicate disposition given that earlier on you told us that the mere sight of a spa building was enough to make you vomit

Aren’t you an academic? With your soft hands you’ll be against the wall with the rest of us middle-class desk-jockeys. 

Visited the falls once a few years back before the new buildings were built. You couldn’t see them from the road back then either.

Personally I think the new buildings are quite tasteful, and the Lodore Falls hotel was always an upmarket hotel (my parents spent their wedding night there) so it’s good to see it become that again with the new investment. 
 

No...