Stoney's legendary polished walls have been a forcing ground for generations and many of the country's most influential climbers have cut their teeth here. 'Stoney' as it is affectionately known, is undoubtedly the most historically important limestone crag in the Peak District, yet in more recent years its influence has indeed dwindled, leaving us with something of a relic. However, there's more to it than meets the eye...
Oh this is torture! I had such plans for Stoney this summer (and Chee Dale, following on from your previous, Rob), especially with the new Rockfax on its way.
Still, my stupid broken leg will heal. And the crags will still be there next year!
Well 99.999% of them will be there next year, but maybe that 0.001% is the crucial hold 😁
I remember chatting to a disconsolate Yank from Montana at Stoney on the first day of his UK tour. He had failed on a whole series of routes, starting with the desperates and working down.
I asked him if they had similar rock where he came from - "Yeah, but we sure don't climb on it"
Chris
> I asked him if they had similar rock where he came from - "Yeah, but we sure don't climb on it"
They do in Utah, if you recall.
> And the crags will still be there next year!
Look on the bright side: if you'd had such plans for the Alps, you may not be abe to say that!
Oh, I was also supposed to do two weeks in Chamonix next month (though that wasn’t happening even if i hadn’t broken my leg...)
Sorry to hear that Paul. Hope the leg heals quickly and (with a bit of luck) you'll get some routes in at Stoney again soon.
> I asked him if they had similar rock where he came from - "Yeah, but we sure don't climb on it"
How do they get their rock polished, then ?
I believe glaciers did it for them!
Typo: Gabe Regan not Gabe Regen?
No mention of Chris Hampers free ascent of Menopause. The route that ended Tom Proctors climbing career.
> No mention of Chris Hampers free ascent of Menopause. The route that ended Tom Proctors climbing career.
How did that happen?
And Nadins solo!!
TP used the one finger undercut method and hurt his tendons on the hold in the bottom of the groove. Hamper came along and flashed it on sight some time later.
There was a good article in Crags magazine at the time with Proctor established in the bottom of the groove but unable to finish the route.
Not surprised he hurt his fingers as that way of doing the move is hideous!
Think Nadins solo was onsight.
> No mention of Chris Hampers free ascent of Menopause. The route that ended Tom Proctors climbing career.
I actively kept the history section short, as a lot has been written about Stoney's history already - hence there was a very real danger that if I delved any deeper I'd just be repeating what others have written already. In addition to that, it is - after all - a destination article, so I wanted to give people more of a hands-on tour of what the crag feels like. The history is a huge part of this, hence its inclusion, but hopefully I got the balance right.
Dave 'Cubby' Cuthbertson just commented on Simon's ascent over on Facebook and I hope he won't mind me quoting him here, as it really does contextualise the achievement:
"Having already climbed Menopause before Simons on sight, I knew how easy it is to commit wrong handed. Now I’m not going to put other well known climbers down for their own cutting edge contributions, but I think Simons solo ranks as one of the most audacious feats in British rock climbing. The French called him The Gladiator, which seems appropriate."
As per my reply to him, even if someone were to do this again today it would still be a totally outrageous achievement. Coincidentally, I've never actually done it, so as/when I'm physically (and psychologically) capable of doing so I'll try to get on it...with a rope of course...
> Dave 'Cubby' Cuthbertson just commented on Simon's ascent over on Facebook and I hope he won't mind me quoting him here, as it really does contextualise the achievement:
do you have a link to that ? Thanks
Hi Doug, it was on my personal FB Page, so sadly not one that I can share here - sorry.
The routes soloed at stoney so early to there first being done on ropes was outrageous. Even in 86 when i first started climbing there it was the done thing to prove yourself by soloing some of the classics.
I always remember an interview with Andy Pollitt where he was asked what is the scariest thing you have ever done.....his reply was 'watch .... ..... solo scoop wall, he was shaking so much '
Can any of you Stoney veterans give a sense of how the popular E3s and E4s compare in terms of difficulty and protection?
Of the ones I've done I'd order them somewhere along the following lines, from easiest to hardest:
Wee Doris - slightly bold at the start, and potentially a little run-out at the end, but aside from that there's good (and obvious) gear and the rests are also quite restful
Pickpocket - I found this alright, but I do have quite a long reach (and from what I recall this makes it a lot easier). Remember there being a crucial runner lower down, but once that's in it feels safe.
Our Father - despite the hard start, there's a good rest in the middle and the rest is a lot, lot easier than what's come before it.
Cabbage Crack - all-in-all I found this pretty go-ey, but the gear is good from start to finish, it's just pretty damn pumpy...
Bitterfingers - despite doing this twice I've never found it easy: hard moves and smaller gear makes it feel like a completely different proposition to Wee Doris (or any of the others for that matter).
I haven't done Oliver, but by all accounts that is 'the one to rule them all' as far as the E4s go.
Colonel Bogey well worth doing as well....Well protected and has a big feel to it especially the top Arete....
Thanks Rob, SB!
No worries, hopefully someone who's done them all would be willing to stick their neck out and place them into order.
Clearly everyone is different, and a lot of it depends on how your going + how you feel on the day, but it's all a bit of a laugh isn't it - hardly an exact science?!
Besides, what else would we be doing if we weren't discussing this? Probably talking about politics...
The Millionaire Touch is the hardest being basically E5
> The Millionaire Touch is the hardest being basically E5
Interesting, I'd always heard Oliver was 'the one' (then again, that could easily be E5 too).
My version - hardest at the top ....
Oliver (E4 6a) - bold and sustained and easy to mess up.
Bitterfingers (E4 6a) - hard, pumpy to protect and there is the second hard section that gets you
Pickpocket (E4 6a) - remember this being hard. Only did it once.
Bubbles Wall (E4 6b) - bold start.
Millionaire Touch (E4 6b) - one very hard move but the rest is okay.
Our Father (E4 6b) - hard start as Rob says, but ok above that.
Cabbage Crack (E4 6a) - just pumpy really. Okay if you are fit.
Wee Doris (E4 5c) - like Cabbage only not as hard moves.
Colonel Bogey (E4 6a) - I remember this being okay but I only did it once and might have been going well.
Alan
Another 2 good E4's are Cardiac Arrest and Speed Kills. Morgue is a good pitch up there as well.
For real Stoney lovers there is Hercules but I would not be recommending that to many people....
Surprised Gerremdown is not mentioned. Well out there and pretty safe as well. E3 5c about right for this.
I'm basing this on how many goes it took to climb each.
As Alan suggests, the millionaires touch has one really hard move. If you are strong enough to do the move it might feel easier overall. If you can barely do the move it will feel desperate.
I do recall grinding to a halt on Oliver with my elbows pointing upwards. Id climbed to easy ground at the top but was so pumped nothing was to be saved.
I was unable to place gear in the slot in front of my face as i could not let go with one hand long enough. I even tried getting the gear to my mouth as an intermediate to reduce the time it took to place. Eventually I conceded defeat and fell off. I thought I was going to land in the substation.
Cheers Rob.
I’d say an overlooked gem. I hope Stoney now gets more recognition and attention as there are some really great routes to be climbed. It’s a very nostalgic place for me and many of my friends, having spent a lot of time there in my misspent youth in the 70’s. We hitch hiked from Manchester on a Friday evening, we would eat in the cafe, climb in the Dale, drink and play darts in the Moon, go to the chippy and doss on Windy ledge. It was a wonderful place to meet other climbers both mortals and Gods. Care free and truly great days.
Chris
Thanks Chris, really glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks for that Rob, brings back great memories of 40 or so years ago...
One perk of things being quiet on the advertising side of things is that I get to channel my efforts into editorial such as this. One drawback is that we're clearly not making that much money....
On that note, thanks for the support - it's greatly appreciated
Interesting (?) that the replies so far have not really covered Stoney E3s, mainly I guess as it's not grade Stoney does well? So for what's its worth, all I've done is:
Jasper (E3 6a) nails
Bubbles Original (E3 5c) not quite as nails
The Flashing Fisher (E3 5c) not nails at all (in fact no harder than Scoop Wall (E2 5c)!
So guys, any more Stoney E3s?
Simon
From distant memory, I remember doing Wee Doris, Oliver and Our Father - all at E3
Helicon and Morgue....Both very good routes.
Interesting... I was going to include Helicon but noticed it's now E2...and also interesting as I believe you climb a tad harder than me! It's probably easier than The Flashing Fisher (E3 5c) and Scoop Wall (E2 5c) so arguably E2? Or perhaps we've identified Stoney's own The Butcher (E3 5c)...?
Simon
It's really fascinating that you Scottish guys would drive that far in the opposite direction of the Highlands to go to Stoney! On those weekends down from Edinburgh did you go to other crags in the Peak or was it all about Stoney?
> It's really fascinating that you Scottish guys would drive that far in the opposite direction of the Highlands to go to Stoney! )On those weekends down from Edinburgh did you go to other crags in the Peak or was it all about Stoney?
I think if you knew spidermac's identify (and seen him climb ) you would know he'd done (a bit everywhere , even in Scotland.
When I lived in Stirling in the late 70s/early 80s we often went to Northumberland with less frequent trips to the Lakes & Yorkshire. We often bumped into groups from Edinburgh (including Spider) & Glasgow. Trips further afield included N Wales & even Cornwall. Unfortunately the rock in Scotland was/is often wet
I don't think Spidermac's user name is particularly hard to work out! 😃 I guess it would have been about a decade after him and Cubby were coming down to Stoney, I moved the other way, using going to study as an excuse, but mainly because I was inspired by the winter routes that people like Spider and Cubby had been doing! Not that I ever got nearly good enough to try any of the ones those dudes had done.
This July, I am heading to The Peak do some bouldering and a mate suggested Stoney Middleton because of the history and bus links from Sheffield.
What is the bouldering like here?
S
I once spent some time climbing in the States with a guy called Russ Clune. He is one of Americas hard climbing lifers having spent decades climbing hard routes everywhere.
We got talking about where he had climbed in England and he said Stoney. Just Stoney. He had come to Stoney to climb the hardest routes in the UK and then headed on to Europe. Its hard to credit now that that would happen!
Theres not a lot at the grades you are climbing.
Other places suggested were : The P and Rubicon.
Depending on the weather gritstone.
You will struggle at both of those places. There isn’t a lot of easy bouldering on a Peak Limestone other than places like Harborough rocks.
:-O
Yes you could. It would depend how much you enjoy failing.
Great article Rob!
This "Pat Hill" character you mention seems a bit strange...
Enjoyed the discussion of relative difficulty of E4s. I've not done many so can't really comment but here's my graded list of Stoney E2s for people to disagree with!
Easiest to Hardest
Double Scotch straightforward jug pulling with good gear
Windhover Tricky start to into HVS
Armageddon Tricky start into a better HVS, feels more out there too. Amazing route.
Helicon No harder than the two above. More sustained though.
Dies Irae Tough but short lived crux
Scoop Wall Wonderful route, really varied, safe and a brilliant crux right at the top.
Carls Wark Crack I found this pumpy and hard
John Peel Desperate!
Flakes Direct (as a single pitch). Another superb route adding another crux high up after the tricky start. I've tried this a couple of times and fallen off the bulge both times.
Not done Alcasan, where would that end up? Any others?
You introduced me to Stoney (and its bouldering), for which I shall be eternally grateful! It is the gift that keeps on giving. Since then I think I've bouldered more at Minus Ten than anywhere else on earth and still have only managed one "up" problem. To be fair it's absurdly polished, fingery and perhaps not the most aesthetic so objectively you're probably right as much as it pains me to say it. Mountain Spirit you're definitely better advised to head to the accessible gritstone bouldering, even if it's warm and midgy!
I think it is irrelevant now as I will be either top roping or seconding on grit instead.
Failing wise, isn't failure part of the (learning) process?
S
Not if you fail to even get both feet off the ground.
I'm up for grit bouldering. Fingerstrength is what I've got plenty of.
So you are hanging the holds on a Beastmaker 2000 bottom row, one handed with added weights.
Well, tbh we didn't do weighted hungs on PT1 but I do remember using the bottom row on the beastmaker 2000 and I am sure if did a Lattice assessment or similar I could.
I've down peer endurance training using narrow rungs on campus board.
Where does it come from?
S
Sarcasm?
> You introduced me to Stoney (and its bouldering)
Sorry!
I've now got the Cumbrian equivalent at Trowbarrow, quick limestone after-work training drop-in centre. There's a bit just like Minus 10 with a traverse, up-routes no one does, bouldering on horribly polished eliminates, etc. It's total shite, but it's still better than Stoney!
Edit. It might be in Lancashire. Which I suppose would explain things.