UKC

Good evening all, not got the stats done yet, another busy weekend. Will get them out in the morning!

In reply to Ross Barker:

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity. UKC fit club is a rich community with posters sharing their goals, noting successes and failures and offering support to those struggling to maintain motivation. Anyone interested in starting is very welcome to join, but to get the most of UKC fit club you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits and drive you towards achieving your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.

Link to last week’s thread:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/walls+training/ukc_fit_club_week_861-7639...

Apologies for the delay! A few people's weeks were marred by weather or busy lives, but on the whole it all sounds pretty good and productive. Nice work everyone.

mattrm: Nice effort on the 10k on Wednesday, must've been a good challenge. Any idea what the knee twinge is? My partner's dad has a similar thing and he responds really well to acupuncture, despite being initially skeptical. Congrats on the weight loss as well!

Somerset swede basher: Good week, reasonably steady with a couple good days out. Blackfoot looks a good problem indeed. Nice stuff!

SteveJC94: I know it's all relative, but calling that a poor baseline makes me feel very unfit! Good work and consistency though. How much are you missing climbing?

Ian Parnell: Great week, some solid training in there. Glad to see you've been bit by the String Theory bug, is it safe enough as a solo hit or are there sections steady enough that you would feel safe with just a couple pads?

AJM: Shame there wasn't time for much, but getting the rehab in is a valuable way to use it! Hopefully work calms down a little and you can get back into the swing of climbing and training.

Tyler: A pleasant chilled week. Back on the grind now! Any particular routes in mind for those goals, or just going to see what takes your fancy upon arrival?

AlanLittle: Glad to see the rib pain settled quickly, followed by some impressive vertical gain in the second half of the week! Always good to be feeling fit. An hour on the kilterboard is definitely enough to make gains, too often as psyched climbers we go too far into fatigue on that sort of limit exercise.

Tom Green: Good runs, and ace work at Trollers. Impressive swift RP and good to open the account on something challenging - will that be the next sport project, or just something to dabble with every once in a while?

Derek Furze: Glad to hear you liked Llanddulas, I've never been but it does seem like a cool crag. Also good to see you taking care of the shoulder, but all that hefty DIY lark later in the week may not be helping - take care, and hope the back strain doesn't linger!

Steve Claw: Nice work on RPing the 7c project! Hope the weather has improved for you on Lundy, would be a shame otherwise. That first "VS/E2" certainly sounded engaging!

the sheep: Another week of consistent swimming and running. Is there a plan for increasing distance, or just a case of getting stuck in and doing it?

inglesp: Great week. Shame someone else was on your project but good training otherwise. Bouldering is indeed great fun when are you looking to finish off the finger strength testing?

Liam P: Strong training scenes on Monday! Making me excited for when I've got healthy fingers again. Excellent local bouldering too, does it come into dry condition reasonably quickly, to continue visits later in the year when the weather further deteriorates?

Randy: Ace one-arm work! Looking very strong indeed. Great milestone with the foot injury as well, but glad to see you're staying sensible despite being eager to get back on the wall.

biscuit: Indeed the weather wasn't conducive to climbing, but getting in one day is better than nothing, even if bookended by a looong drive. At least you've got some life admin and whatnot out of the way. Hope Llandudno gave you the goods!

Small Step: Good stretching followed by what sounds like a wonderful weekend in the mountains. Pleased to see you identify your behaviours and tendencies relating to PTSD and making appropriate decisions despite what you might feel the urge to do. Hope you enjoy your time off, see ya later!

Ally Smith: Hope the holiday has had better weather than here! The MoonBoard eagerly awaits the return of his king...

In reply to Ross Barker:

Nice work Ross.  Yes, Llanddulas surprised me and I am looking forward to returning in better conditions.

A very strange week to report.  Weather was iffy, so plans for a trip out Monday collapsed and thereafter events took over.

Mon - A proper training day.  Started off early with 5 km steady run (no doubt barely walking pace for the SteveJC94 and others)!  Got onto the fingerboard later for six sets of increasing loads on max hangs on three tips.  Also did a six set pyramid of BW pull ups 5, 6, 7, 7, 6, 5 so nothing momentous, but a start back to a regime of sorts.  Six sets of ten push ups,  Six sets of reverse curls, stretching and shoulder rehab.

Tues - Julia's very elderly mother taken into hospital on GPs advice.  Prospects not good.

Wed - Julia's mother passed - long-expected and Julia had been well-prepared for a long while, but her brother took it very badly.

Thurs - in amongst the inevitable arrangements, a further six sets of max hangs as Mon, but this time with six sets of weighted pull ups, stretches, wrist rollers and shoulder rehab.

Fri - 5 km early run in 29:01 (nearly breaking target for Oct).  1/4 km recovery walk, then a faster 0.5 km in 2:21 to see hat increasing pace was like.

Sat - away for weekend (Julia's birthday).  Used hotel facilities to do a treadmill run, swim some lengths and get massages in the spa.  A nice way to spend some quiet time marking her Mum's passing.

Out to the crag today after over a week of enforced no climbing.  Blue skies so up to Yorkshire.

Reflection;  Nice to get back to a better training routine.  Finally decided on plans for my revised training station, so hoping to build this over the next couple of weeks which will give me several more options for the winter programme.

In reply to Ross Barker:

Cheers Ross.

Pertinent question after this week! Whilst it’s very solid ‘hard sandstone’…it’s still sandstone so reticent to climb it after bad weather. It honked down every day through the week so didn’t bother at the weekend. If there’s a week of dry cold weather it should be ok but gonna start looking for some close(ish) Brizzle limestone boulders for winter training - Cleve maybe, as Gollums Cave looks like it will surpass my capacity for esoterica.

Only one garage session this week. I was holding off for some dry weather that never came!

Mon

• Lattice Wood Block Pinches. 5x 10s 15.5kg. Felt really solid but creeping up gently. The Lattice ‘Feats of Strength’ page has been taken down so unsure what a high-end score is - think Ally may have been pushing 30kg?
• OA Lockoffs 3x 12s (80%BW). Nice and steady.
• RTO Dips 5x 4
• Rings Hanging Wipers 3x 5. Won’t be adding ankle weights to these for a while! Really hard to stop yourself swinging but lots more recruitment compared to the bar.

Forecast better this week so should get a garage and couple outdoor sessions in.

In reply to Ross Barker:

Thanks Ross. I am indeed trying to apply a "stop as soon as I start to weaken" approach to my bouldering sessions, and it seems to be working. But also also "don't try to train when sick" - see Sunday.

STG: Autumn '23 tick my first 7a in two years, and/or something from my (long) local 6c+ projects list
MTG: Summer '24 uk trad trip with my son and/or Rough Bounds Scottish backpacking trip
LTG: Be a confident, well rounded low to mid 7's sport climber. For measurable definition see Fit Club 823
LTG: Winter 24 or 25 - do an actual off piste ski tour.

M: Bike 1½ hours to the office & back

T: Wall, Thalkirchen. Routes 6a 6a 6b 6c 6b+ 7b+. Couple of autobelay proj attempts, no progress: there's a foot move I could do before my holiday that now feels unimaginable. Heigh ho. All in all a rather weary & desultory session. Unsurprisingly - after my alpine start on Sunday I slept briefly & poorly the last two nights too. Never sure what to do in this sort of situation - turn up and put the miles in anyway, or listen to my body and take an extra rest day? Chose the former.
    Bike 45 minutes.

W: A rest day and an early night seemed to be called for. Stretched for half an hour before bed.
T: 
F:    Wall, Thalkirchen. Kilterboard. I definitely feel like something's improving, even if it's only that I'm getting more confident about trying big moves.
    Bike 45 minutes.

S:    Rainy day hillwalking, 2 x 800m rounds on the Herzogstand, getting the lift down in between.

S:    Had intended to go to the wall, but the first cold of the Autumn is starting to get me in its grip.
 

In reply to Ross Barker:

Thanks Ross.

Nothing structured this last week. No gym stuff and no extra training. Did some DIY.

We climbed a couple of times at Lancaster Wall. I've vowed to work my weaknesses and get on the steep stuff to get strong, so the sessions revolved around that really. Looking ahead I'm going to have a weekly hour long session on the Kilter board at Lancaster and the splatter board/comp wall at BUK.

We did make it to Llandudno. Arrived just in time for it to rain. Thankfully that passed fairly quickly. Waited for it to dry. Got fed up waiting and did the warm up wet. Interestingly it wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be. Did a 6c (I forget which) then got on the target for the day Back on Track (7a+). I'd had a go in it at the end of a previous session and declared the crux nails. Clipped up it as the bottom was soaking. The top half was dry though. Again it wasn't as slippy as I thought in the wet. This time I went direct and it went well enough. Had a rest, it wasn't going to dry, so gave it a go anyway and got it. Pleased as I was able to stay focussed on the climbing and not worrying about the falling. I even cut loose on purpose, which is very unlike me.

Did another 6c after, which was much better than it looks.

Time to get stuck into some training now for Leonidio in November - it better not bloody rain! 

In reply to Derek Furze:

Sorry to hear that Derek. Even if expected it will inevitable be hard for all concerned.

In reply to Ross Barker: Thanks for your kind stats. Yes String Theory is workable solo. Ideally you’d want 5 pads - you could get away with 4. Unfortunately for me there are no steady bits - I find every move droppable!

STG (next month) – maintain a grip on daily life, maintain and enjoy climbing and training when possible

MTG (next 2 months)– 1. Autumn run and climb project. 2. String Theory (f7A)?

LTG (next 6 months) – 1. Give me strength – fingers, steep stuff and slopers. 2. Get properly to grips with safe Grit E3s. 3. Rheinstor Lower Traverse (f7A)??.

Mon – Back to Rowsley Wood and String Theory (f7A). Pouring down with rain outside the cave and this I think affected conditions as the back wall was wet and the jams if held too long became slippy. Put in quite a bit of time trying to figure out a reliable sequence on the crux, not sure if I succeeded. Bit of a frustrating session but hopefully all effort in the bag.

Tues –  Depot with Swede. Aim was to try and do a full circuit. I opted for pinks which I’ve done a full circuit of several times in the past. This time, however, they were an unusual set with half easy and juggy, and half very, very burly with little in between. I struggled and ended up pulling my rhomboid (I think) at the end of the evening.

Wed – Sat - Took Tuesday as a message that I needed a proper rest. so nothing except for Friday evening when I had a short experiment with weighted stretches.

Sunday – An hour running 6 miles around the woods. Half an hour weighted lower body flexibility. First time I’ve had DOMS after stretching.

Reflection - Difficult week. Felt exhausted with work and particularly home proving very stressful. The inevitable happened with injury on Tuesday. Luckily it’s just a small muscle strain but I’m backing off for a week or so.

In reply to Ross Barker:

Thanks Ross,

Busy at work this week so less time out but quality when I did get out.

Mon. rest.

Tues. Depot session with Ian, did all the reds, good high mileage session.

Wed. 10km run 300m ascent.

Thurs + Fri. rest.

Sat. Quality Almscliffe session with Tom.  Warmed up on Pothole Direct (VS 5b) and seconding Tom on Demon Wall (HVS 5a).  By this time main main objective of The Wall of Horrors (E3 6a) was dry and I was really happy to lead this confidently and not make a hash of it which was nice. Also did Morrell's Wall Traverse (f7A) then went back and seconded someone up Wall of Horrors again.  Pleased I could still do it when a bit ruined after bouldering!

Sun. Rest, walk with the kids up onto Stanage in the wind.

In reply to Ross Barker:

Thanks for the stats. 

Weight - 12st 4lbs

STG - 15k a week by mid-September - Tick (16k) last week

MTG - 10k 1 hour

LTG - 30 mile ultra (July 24) and 86 mile (Sept 24)

M - Chasing after kids on kids fell running club

T - Rest

W - 2k run

T - Rest

F - 10k run, 1h 20m

S - S - Rest

Weekly mileage - 12k

Didn't really get started well and only got a 2k in on Weds.  Then managed a 10k on the flat.  I'm pretty happy with 1h 20m bearing in mind I was going very slowly.  Think I might have had a cold at the tail end of the week, so that's my excuse.  That and loads of DIY and cleaning over the weekend.  The plan was to be at 17k, but obviously that didn't happen.  So need to hit that properly next week.  So I can then get on to 25k by the end of October.  Then 30k by November, then maintain that through December, ready to start a 3 month base plan in Jan.

The knee niggle which wasn't actually hurting my running has disappeared.  Very weird.

In reply to Ross Barker:

Mon -- Social climbing at the Warehouse.  My 7a project was again occupied, so I had a play on a 7a+ -- every move is at the limit of what I can do, but there are a couple of reasonable rests.

Tue -- Active posterior chain mobility B; upper body mobility B; 6 minute core.

Wed -- Hip and leg flexibility B.  Then a retest of finger strength.  Turns out bodyweight is my limit for a 7s hang on a 20mm edge.  See below for some thoughts.

Thu -- Back to the Warehouse for a session on the autos.  Worked out the moves of the 7a+ and then did it clean, and then figured out a better sequence the crux of the 7a project but didn't have quite enough in me to do the whole route.  Should think both will go clean on lead next time I'm in with friends.

Fri -- Max hangs at 85% (-12kg): 6 sets of 10s with 2m between sets on 20mm edge.  Found this pretty easy.  Wrist curls; finger curls, forearm mobility B; 10km run.

Sat --

Sun -- Active hip mobility B; 2 x 6 minute core; repeaters with feet on the floor: 4 sets of 3 reps; 7s on, 3s off.  Then a 17.5km run -- kept up a steady 6min/km pace (a pace I can usually hold a conversation at), but something was wrong with my digestion and the whole thing felt very hard.  Got home and felt terrible.  Slept twelve hours and am feeling better today, although surprisingly stiff.

~~~

Plugging my finger strength results into the Lattice website has me at "significantly below what we'd expect at your current route grade".  The mean for someone who's done 7a in the last year is 134% bodyweight, with 1 SD at 112% bodyweight.

Several possibilities:

* I have incredibly good technique.  Unlikely!  But possibly my technique is better than that of a strong young climber who's hit 7a in their first year of climbing, and possibly there are lots of these climbers in Lattice's database.

* The Warehouse grading is very soft.  Plausible, but it's definitely not the softest place I've climbed.  I don't have much in the way of outdoor benchmarks for comparison, except for Duhkha (6c) at Ban-y-Gor, which I redpointed in a couple of goes earlier in the year -- it gets a mid-6c on the UKC votes and if anything felt easier than most 6cs at the Warehouse.

* I was having an off day when doing the assessment.  Plausible, especially given how easy I found max hangs at 85% bodyweight.

* I'm much better at using what finger strength I have on the wall than on a board.  Maybe I respond better to drum and bass than I thought?

* Something else?  I'd be interested in the club's collective wisdom here.

In reply to inglesp:

I did do some stuff with lattice back in the day and found it's translation from finger strength to route grade fairly well correlated with my experience. However some of their videos since then (there was one on pullups I think it was by boulder grade) that make me wonder if their dataset is now skewed more towards the strong indoor climber. That being said, their boulder:finger strength comparison never worked for me, so maybe it was only ever a coincidence.

In reply to Ross Barker:

Another quiet week, my parents down this weekend gone. Plugged away with rehab. Got some of the big deliveries out of the way at work, the actual review meetings this week but the papers all went out last week. 

Fingers crossed for this weekend really.

In reply to inglesp: My thoughts as a fellow climber with ‘weak fingers’. 
1. My feeling is those assessments attract a certain subset of climbers - those committed to training, perhaps at the lower grades in Lattices dataset these will be climbers who’ve trained a lot more than they’ve climbed outside and therefore have very strong fingers compared with what grades they can climb. Add in the results of your everyday HVS climber who might not even have heard of Lattice let alone done any finger boarding and I think your finger strength might not be considered that bad.

2. Your finger strength seems about the same as mine. I’ve found up to British 6a it doesn’t seem to be a limiting factor. Obviously having stronger fingers would mean you could do Brit 6a with worse technique, etc.

3. Having said that I’m not saying don’t train fingers they are obviously a crucial component of climbing. Dave Mac’s view seems to be you can never have strong enough fingers and should be worked in as a staple for most people’s training. I think the thing is working out if they are a notable weakness limiting you from the specific climbing you want to do. If I remember right your pull ups were at a pretty good level have Lattice given feedback about them? My memory is telling me they seemed better than your finger strength..?

4. I do find finger boards difficult and I think some people will have better applied finger strength - after all pulling on small holds is a multi factorial full body process rather than just having steel for tendons.

5. If 134% is the mean for those having red pointed 7a then there are a lot of climbers who have to work on a lot more things than finger strength in my opinion. 

In reply to inglesp:

How long a hang is the 134% for? And is it specifically on the lattice edge, or any generic 20mm edge (most of which are probably substantially better than the lattice edge, which has a very rounded lip).

In general I probably agree with Ians final point...

In reply to Ross Barker:

Evening all. Derek, sorry to hear about Julia's mother, no amount of prep can prepare you unfortunately. Hope things are managing fine in the wake of it (pun not intended, but can't think of a better word, sorry!).

A sort of okay week for me. Picked up a new tweak of sorts, but it seems to be minor, and hopefully doesn't linger. Shoulder is improving nicely, quite confident in it's ability and sturdiness overall. Good day out on the grit, felt like I was moving unexpectedly well. Piss poor squeezing strength, which might be a low hanging fruit to train, instead of just moaning about it? We'll see...

Last Week:

M - Drive home. Ice baths before bed.

T - Steady warm up and band work. Left middle A2 now feels a bit crap for some reason. Genuinely no clue. Haven't climbed on it for 10 days (and the days before that weren't intense at all), but it just feels a little tweaked. Ring finger still a little injured but I expected that. Shoulder is handling it okay though, which is something.

W - Rest. Ice baths before bed.

T - 3.1km jog/run/torture. ~22mins. Not too bad for a boulderer who only runs when the wind steals the pads. Mostly happy to not resort to a walk at any point, thus probably breaking a PB for longest unbroken run! Followed up with solid band work for the shoulder, and 19mm fingerboard pickups progressing to 19kg. Starting piss easy and working up. Nondescript lower body stretches to finish. Bosh.

F - Rest.

S - The Roaches. Lovely day out. Shoulder behaved, both A2s behaved though they weren't working too hard. Repeated a bunch of things I'd done before, surprised to retroflash Too Drunk (f7A) (the only thing which stressed the A2s), and pottered on a couple of new things. Splendid time.

S - Golf, which is reasonably restful I suppose. Was nervous about the shoulder but it handled it really well, even when I was trying to smash long drives.

Next Week:

M - Rest.

T - Climbing.

W - Rest.

T - Climbing.

F - Rest.

S, S - More climbing!

Goals:

Rehab shoulder.

Rehab A2s.

Improve ability on tiny edges.

Oberth Effect Proj.

In reply to inglesp:

I broadly agree with everything Ian has said, but can add my own wisdom:

I think you might be stronger than just bodyweight as a max. If you found the 85% easy then may be the 100% was not right.  Hangs are a lot to do with technique, and the edge your using, and the way you hang the additional weight.

My opinion generally is that far too much is talked about hangboard protocols. Possibly because its an easy thing to do a You-Tube video about.

Yes finger strength is very important, but so many other things are equally important.  I usually try hangs each year, and don't really get on with them, so stop.

Last time I checked my "max", I was 134%, which would put me in the 7a club, yet on a good day I can Redpoint 7c outdoors (in a day). I doubt my fingers are that strong now.

I think, if you have a good base fitness in all areas (core, flexibility, fingers, shoulders, body weight, foot technique) and you apply a large dose of try hard, then you will surprise yourself.

Definitely learn how to hang, its not obvious until you do it a bit.  Then learn to add some of that technique to your normal climbing.  I remember when I first learnt to hang, then going to a crux on a route, pulling on the crimp where I felt I was falling off, then thinking "I know this feeling, I got 7s of this" and cranked on through.

In reply to Liam P:

Its all super Esoteric, more so in the winter.  Gollums Cave is pretty rough.

The Sandstone areas may be overgrown, the locals don't spend the time there to keep it all clean.

However, if your willing to play on a shunt, then there are lots of quality hard things to do around Avon that would make great "boulder problems" if they were at ground level.

Where are you living now?

In reply to Ross Barker:

Thank you Ross,

Unfortunately the Lundy weather did not really improve.  We got some better times and took advantage of them, but also some stormy days, and made the most of them as well.

M - Good weather in the afternoon.   Ice (E3 6a) and Road Runner (Full) (E3 6b) Both are brilliant routes, and its a shame their 2nd pitches are rarely done, as both were great.

T - Storm day.  Did The Devil's Slide (HS 4a) in 50 mph winds, and rain.  1 half rope and a set of nuts, Billy Goat on the belay ledge.  Top adventure.

W - Better weather in the afternoon. Shunt session on Quetzalcoatl (E9 6b) which required a bit of route finding and clearing of the Mariners grass to find the holds. Ace climbing, lots of hard tech 6b on small holds, but only just vertical, so you can stand in position while you work it all out.

T - Last day, everything was wet from the night time rain.  Dropped into American Beauty (HVS 5a) which was soaking.  My partner wanted to jug out, but I was determined to climb it, so stonked on up.  Another classic route that climbs well in all conditions. 

Fri-Sun - Nothing

In reply to Ross Barker:

Hey hey. Cheers for statting, Ross. 

Don't think I'm going to put too much time in to Cold Turkey right now. I don't really want a sport climbing project at this time of the year. Time to shift focus to winter!

Week 38:

M: Strength & prehab.

T: Rest.

W: Strength & prehab.

T: Run & climb. 34.4km, 1170m vert, 3h56m running time (6:53/km) plus 2h28 climbing + faff time. Did a Tour de Moor... basically ran the 'Cleveland South' and 'Cleveland North' chapters in Franco's NYM guidebook, climbing a route on each major crag I passed on the way. (I missed out Highcliffe Nab for practical reasons, so made up for it by adding in Scugdale at the start). Soloed Pets' Corner (VS 4b) Beak Ridge (HS 4b) Chop Yat Ridge - Direct Finish (HVS 5b) Airlift (S 4a) Parallels (S 4a) Scoop Chimney (VD) (given HS in the guide!) Friendly Ridge (none 4a) and Neb (S 4a)

F: Rest.

S: Climbing at Almscliff. Slightly low psyche levels -still a bit tired from Thurs! Made a hash of Demon Wall by not finding the good hold below the top and trying to down climb to the floor for a rest. Fell off literally a metre from the ground so blew the onsight in the least spectacular fashion. Annoyingly straightforward on the ground up go. Big kudos to SSB for an incredibly smooth ascent of Wall of Horrors. I thought this was MILES harder that Big Greeny and Western Front but Swede totally cruised it.

S: Trail run. 12.9km, 469m vert, 6:22/km.

Week 39:

M: Alpine start/finish for work.

T: Climbing.

W: Strength & Core.

T: Run.

F: Climbing.

S: Climbing.

S: Run.

STG (end Sept):

3 off big mountain day list (2/3)

Average twice weekly finger boarding. 

5+ off Lundy hit list (TICK).

MTG (end Dec):

Hidden Dragon or White Wall (Masson, not Millstone!)

100m D6/7 in a session.

110 days climbing for the year (currently 86).

1000 km running (currently 929km) and 40km vertical (currently 29.5km) for the year.

LTG (end March):

2+ off Scottish VII list.

1+ of Alpine Winter list.

In reply to Steve Claw:

Nice one Steve. Sounds like you made a good week from bad cons. Good work doing American beauty if it was soaking! Looks intimidating enough dry!

In reply to inglesp:

Haha! I found exactly the same with my freebie lattice finger strength thing. 
 

I think what others have said above probably covers the reasons why. But if I read your post rightly, the route grade you gave is for an indoor route? In which case it could be miles off the same grade outdoors?

Do what I did when I got similar results (after I stopped laughing at them!) -firstly, bask in the glory of having amazing footwork and technique; then secondly, start training those fingers… if you can get to ‘average strength for 7a’ you’ll be able to climb 7c+!

In reply to Ross Barker:

What’s your plan for the tiny edge goal Ross? Do you just transfer normal max hang protocols on to ever smaller edges? What do you class as tiny? 12mm? 8mm?! 2pence coin edge?!!

In reply to Tom Green:

My current plan is to get healthy fingers first! In good healthy form I can just about hang BW on a 10mm edge, and that's the smallest edge at my local wall, so I think I'd just be doing max hang timings but on the 10mm with no extra weight.

Hopefully only a couple hangs should keep volume low enough to not injure my DIP joints, but intense enough to condition them plus my skin.

Eventually I'd like to start adding weight, or progress to a smaller edge if we end up getting any. That's quite far in the future though I think.

In reply to Ross Barker:

That makes sense. On those micro edges I’ve always wondered what the training effect ‘split’ is between strength, skin performance and acclimatisation to the pain in your pads!

In reply to AlanLittle:

What have I become? Next weekend is a long weekend over here (German Reunification Day) and I spent my day off work sick yesterday deciding what to do. Weather forecast is good, I could have gone sport climbing locally or joined up with a couple of mates who are heading to the Pfalz for some sandstone trad.

Instead I got the maps out and planned a three day scramble/bivvy traverse of the Karwendel. And right now the thing I'm most excited about for next year - having been so impressed by Knoydart last month - is a week long Rough Bounds backpacking trip that I've already sketched out on the map.

I might see if the lad fancies a few days in Leonidio over Christmas/New Year to get me back on track.

In reply to Ross Barker:

Added weight on small edges has always felt hard to me; far harder than maxing out on 20mm + extra weight.

There's definitely an element of skin conditioning to it, but not in a bad way IMHO.

Nothing more to report from me this week. I've rep'd the CoC#2 almost daily and had some sea swims - quite exhilarating in the swell/surf we've had the last few days. 

My greatest achievement of the week was putting away >1kg of dressed crab yesterday; sufficient calories to see me feeling full for >24hrs!

In reply to Ally Smith:

 

I‘m impressed. I only managed two crabs in one sitting when I visited my sister in Norfolk last month 

In reply to Ross Barker:

Thanks Ross. Unfortunately, i don't have that to report this Week:

Mon: Rest

Tues: Drinking too much beer at the Oktoberfest

Wed: Felt hungover as expected. Nevertheless did some archer pullups and some repeaters.

Thurs - Sun: Rest

Started too feel a little bit sick on Friday, but not too bad, just a sore throat. Did not got better over the weekend and corona test was positive today

At least the symptoms are still very mild and hopefully i have less risk now to get it during the winter again. 

In reply to inglesp:

A couple of more thoughts on your test results:

• The test that you did just measured one specific strength/fitness metric and there are many more that are important. E.g. i am pretty sure that on indoor lead routes endurance is more important than maximum finger strength, which is more important in many outdoor routes. 
• The lattice data is definately biased towards people who have an interest in stregth training and who have more experience with a Fingerboarding. So it could very well be the case that you are much better at applying your strength at the wall compared to just hanging on a 20mm edge. 
• Performance on hangboard fluctuates based on conditions, current training load, etc. Hence, it could very be the case that you had on off day

The more interesting questions is what to do with these results? At least imo it is a hint that you could benefit from more strength training. So i would suggest to add a little more limit bouldering to your training and see if you make any improves that transfers to the lead wall.

In reply to Steve Claw:

I’m North East next to Hambrook. All a bit soggy and horrible at the minute, so would be good to get a steer on local spots for shunting.

Just checked to see if you’re on the WhatsApp Group - think Derek was admin so could add you. That’s if you want to join it that is! 

In reply to Ross Barker:

Cheers Ross, at this stage it’s just going to be head on out for the half and see how it goes. I’m running it with my wife and she has had a few problems with training so we will go at her pace so I’m happy we will get round and I’m not going to worry about time which is nice.

Swam 1k every lunchtime Monday to Friday and got a couple of 10k evening runs in.

Saturday we got a 6k early morning run in and spent the rest of the weekend supporting our kids swim club at a swim meet. My wife was team manager and I was one of the officials. Not the ideal way to spend the weekend but without us and other parents doing likewise the events don’t go ahead. Happy to report all kids got pb’s and county times and my eldest even smashed out a sub 20 minute 1500m 😊

In reply to Liam P:

Cool, didn't realise. Definitely have to meet up!

Great, SSB has my number

In reply to Ross Barker:

Thanks Ross. As you might imagine I'm desperate to get back climbing but thankfully that day is rapidly approaching.

As with last week, cardio, cardio and more cardio.

M/T - Rest

W - Zone 2 base run. 7.2km / 37mins30s (5:13/km)

T - Intervals - 5 minute warmup then 3 x 1km @4:25/km into 1 minute @4:05/km. 5 minute cool down

F - Rest

S - Zone 2 base run. 11km / 56mins28s (5:08/km)

S - Rest

In reply to Ross Barker:

I’ll follow the others around as they’ve been before and have their own targets. That said I will do my research in the logbooks to make sure I find the ones that “suit my style”!

T: potteries around on my board and put one of my new volumes on, I now have a huge shakeout in the middle which should help with the stamina training (not that I’ve been on it since). 
W: Beacon with Fi, ten or so tie ins. Also went shopping and bought some new Scarpa Generators (£160!!!!) but worth it….

S: Penmaen head, warmed up using my new boots, they are too effing big! (Size 40 low volume/ women’s if anyone wants to make me an offer!). Enjoyable day until I failed to even do the moves on Clogau Gold (7a) and then failed to redpoint 70 Degrees Direct (7a)

S: Got as far as the Marine Drive before rain forced us back home. 
The no eating thing seems to be working

In the spirit of SSB I’m excited to trail the fact that next week I’ll have a coffee table book tick to talk about….

In reply to Steve Claw:

I've added you.

In reply to Tyler:

You've even hidden your logbook to build the suspense!

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

My logbook is open to partners can you not see it? The tick in question will not be in there though

In reply to Tyler:

Such suspense!  Excellent 🙂

In reply to Tyler:

Congratulations on your repeat of Indian Face, Tyler. Ballsy!

In reply to Ian Parnell:

Thanks Ian, I was pleased to get it but as it’s only a foot note in Extreme Rock it doesn’t really count for anything, so that’s not the one I’m talking about. This one is much more significant in an, arguably, more important climbing book. 

In reply to Tyler:

You finally got round to ticking the Walker?! Great job!

In reply to Tom Green:

I’m beginning to worry that some people may not have even heard of ‘The Power of Climbing’ and even those that have may not consider ticking the interviewees a ‘thing’! Anyway, I briefly climbed with Dougie Hall at the wall yesterday and if you don’t know who that is shame on you (and get a copy of the Power of Climbing)

In reply to Tyler:

I was thinking you’d maybe just ticked your last route in Parois de Legende! A PoC tick is obviously better still. 

In reply to Tyler:

My copy of Power of Climbing didn't survive my emigration, and I only have a one-level-of-indirection Dougie Hall tick - climbed for a couple of days with in Austria with Nik Jennings, who climbed a lot with Dougie on the Isle of Man.

Is Dawes in PoC? I seconded him on The Plum at Tremadog in pouring rain, which was a fun day out.

In reply to Tyler:

Not sure I'm familiar with PoC, which is surprising given my vintage, but following the theme at a tangent, I did climb a fair bit with Tom Proctor and can claim that he fell off seconding me on grit and lime.  I used to cave dig with him a lot and on one occasion he asked my mate (a serious powerlifter) to break up a boulder blocking access to an enticing tunnel.  Rich set about pounding the boulder with a massive sledgehammer and after he had worked up a fine sweat, was rewarded by chipping a small piece of one corner.  While resting, Tom appeared to see how things were going, picked up the sledge and with one blow reduced the boulder to a shattered pile of dust.  Easy to see how the myths developed.

In reply to Tyler:

An arguably more important book!? What madness and blasphemy is this?  The ghost of Ken Wilson will be after you!

I have to say I've never heard of TPoC, couldn't see a ukc ticklist for it either - so it must be trash

In answer to your earlier post, no I can't see your logbook.  I don't seem to be able to view any partners private logbooks, maybe they aren't partnered properly?

In reply to AlanLittle:

Yes JD is in the top tier, the Masters section.

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

If it helps Swede, I can see Tyler's fine and everyone else who keeps it public.  

In reply to Derek Furze:

Tom Proctor is a left field inclusion in the book, which is quite good as it has some good photos and is a gray snapshot of the time.

You’ve just started another! That is a good story

In reply to Tyler:

The Power of Climbing was a big thing in my early days of climbing. Some very nice black and white photos. Dougie Hall is a good tick. I think trumps my Zippy (I think Zips would agree).

In reply to Derek Furze:

I've just worked it out.  If you click on their profile it won't come up but if you go to the partners tab in My Logbook then you can click on the logbooks there and they work fine.

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

I think Ken Wilson was a major critic of the book so you may be right! 
The order of significance of tick lists is: Gaston, PoC, ER, Parois, HR.

This is canon, I’m surprised you didn’t know this. 

In reply to Tyler:

Parois?

In reply to Ian Parnell:

You must have more than that? Besides there are different levels of tick and your friendship with Zippy trumps my chance encounter with DH although Derek wins for rarity. 

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Tom, you tell him, I’m too disappointed to write at the moment. 

In reply to Tyler:

Here's another.  Tom persuaded me to enter the Matlock Bath Boxing Day raft race.  It's for charity he said.  I'm quite good at DIY, but Tom is a skilled carpenter, so watching him nail our structure together faster than any nail gun was impressive, but come race day we line up, him dressed as a friar and myself fetchingly attired as a nun.  The rugby club entry is nearby (dressed as a scene from Wagner's Ring Cycle) and I can see the lads have taken a fancy.  The start is chaotic, made more so by the fawning realisation that Tom intends to win, so his paddling side is planning through the water like a powerboat, whereas I am busy distracting the vast crowds by flashing a bit of leg.  This fires up the rugby club even more and seconds later I am in the water with (I assume), fifteen other men.  Swimming in a nun's costume isn't easy and is made even harder by the good-humoured grasping.  I nearly drown until I am plucked from the water by Tom, who then thrusts a paddle in my hand and declares 'good work, now they are out of the way we can win this!'.  I think we came in third, but we're the first proper raft - everything ahead were two canoes strapped together.

In reply to Derek Furze:

Excellent stuff and a high brow rugby club judging by their choice of fancy dress

In reply to Tyler:

I know, pretty shocking ignorance!

It’s Stephanie Bodet and Arnaud Petit’s “Walls of Legend”. A selection of big climbs from all over the world (none from the UK… turns out we don’t have big enough walls to qualify as legendary!)

As a tick list it’s more overwhelming than inspirational! 

In reply to Tom Green:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/ticklists/parois-de-legende-1069

WOW!

Tom - we're going to the Dolomites next summer...

In reply to Derek Furze:

Third in my trilogy of Tom epics...while exploring the furthest reaches of Carlswark Cavern, we notice that the completely flooded passage blocking our way intersects a mine cutting at roof level.  We correctly deduce this must be the then working Eyam Mine, so hatch a plot to break into the mine and work out a way of syphoning the cave into the mine, where the pumps can take care of the sudden excess of water.

We arrive late on Friday - the dead of night was our plan - to find the whole village brightly lit and partying.  Inadvertently, we had chosen Eyam Carnival for our subterfuge.  What followed was two cavers sneaking through all the back gardens between the car park and the mine, helped by the fact that partying people don't really watch out for such antics.

We make it to the mine, squeeze past the lift cage and ab a long way down the shaft, locate our bit of cave in the floor of a passage and then start laying hose.  The mine passage isn't level, so we end up digging a route through to a lower level, an episode that involves a collapse that is close to burying us with the evidence.  It turns out that a syphon is quite hard to start with a long, undulating hose, but we do get it moving and relax while the working mine slowly starts to get quite wet.  Tom wants to hide the hose, so we dig and dig until the whole thing is buried.  I suggest we should get going.

A long jug out to surface in bright sunlight. Back at the van I check the time and it's 6:30.  I start work at 8!

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

With a choice of Madagascar, Patagonia, etc the Dollies are what got you excited?!? ;-p

In reply to Derek Furze:

That’s wild! Hadn’t realised you had a secret troglodyte past!

In reply to Tom Green:

I think a pass to either of those would be much harder to negotiate! Plus we are hoping to be out in France for the summer anyway, which is basically Italy.

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

I thought you taught geography?  Can't imagine 'France...is basically Italy' attracting high grades! 🙂

In reply to Derek Furze:

Also, isn’t Parois significantly overweight in routes that are actually, you know, in France?

In reply to Tom Green:

You wouldn't reduce the size of the bench you're bench pressing from to get stronger would you? You'd use more weight on a stable surface.

The idea is to get strong using big edges and then apply that to small edges. Small edges are about coordination, timing and tolerance.

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Nope you're not alone, I've never heard of PoC either.

Derek - that sounds properly daft.  Especially flooding the mine.

In reply to mattrm:

It was.  Particularly because as soon as the sump drained, the syphon stopped working, so it only cleared for a couple of days.  Tom knew someone who worked in the mine and they didn't notice anything - the pumps are automatic.  It was a lot of effort for a short peep into a 'new' bit of passage.

In reply to inglesp:

Max hanging is one of those things where significant adaptation takes place, so I think bodyweight might feel like your limit at the moment, but won't for long.  I'm a week or two into a new grip and it felt desperate until yesterday (@ 120%), but suddenly I know I'm going to get progression over the next few sessions.  It's neural adaptation happening - learning that you can do it - rather than 'just' an increase in strength.  

...and your technique may well be flawless 🙂

In reply to Tyler:

You'll be comforted to know that, for the price of just £5, a second hand copy of the 'required reading' Power of Climbing is currently enroute to my house!  I hope I'm not going to be disappointed.

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Me too, I’ll feel guilty if you don’t. I reckon it’ll be worth the price of a magazine but I would be interested to hear what you think (I daren’t workout how old you were when it came out!)

In reply to Derek Furze:

I suppose that's a bit better.  Least he could let someone who worked there know.

SSB - I'm also joining the PoC for a fiver club.  Yet more climbing books to sit on my bookshelf unread I expect.  Bit like my copy of Peak Rock.

In reply to mattrm:

I'm relieved to be off the naughty step!

Where are you finding PoC for a fiver?!  Best I can find is £17!

In reply to Derek Furze:

Presumably the prices have spiked with all the recent interest!

In reply to mattrm:

Ditto. 

I picked up a copy of Fawcett on Rock a while back, and leafed through it a couple of times purely for reasons of nostalgia. Don't regret it.

In reply to Derek Furze:

Check fleabay.  I hope I've got the right thing it's the Power of Climbing by David Jones?

In reply to biscuit:

Makes sense. So the split is more towards the ‘skill’ of hanging micro edges than any strength element. Technique, skin and pain threshold?!

In reply to AJM, Ian, Steve, Tom, Randy, & Derek:

Thanks for your input re: measuring finger strength.

Sorry for not responding yet -- I've been wiped out with a bug for the last few days and haven't had the chance to think about this properly.