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Really good documentary on BBC4 on Jodrell Bank this week but spoilt by a narrator with pronounced regional accent. Neil Oliver being another narrator where you have to spend time working out the message from the strangulated medium. For most documentaries the narration should just impart information preferably in accentless English. Otherwise using a strong regional accent where it adds nothing to the documentary is like setting a book in Comic Sans, doesn't usually work unless in Primary School.
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In reply to m0unt41n:
I love his accent. It isn't that broad. Perfectly easy to understand. Would you prefer this? youtube.com/watch?v=tQWPR9TM0Gk&
I love his accent. It isn't that broad. Perfectly easy to understand. Would you prefer this? youtube.com/watch?v=tQWPR9TM0Gk&
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In reply to m0unt41n:
nae doot sum biddy will be alang tae tell yea tae feck aff any time noo, fact consider it dun.
nae doot sum biddy will be alang tae tell yea tae feck aff any time noo, fact consider it dun.
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In reply to m0unt41n:
Never really come across a television / radio program where I couldn't understand the narrator.
Out of interest, is English your first language? I can appreciate that some of the regional quirks might be tricky for someone to handle.
Maybe I'm biased. I had a very strong north-eastern accent when I first left home and had to make a conscious effort to tone it down a little bit, so maybe subconsciously I focus on other peoples speech when a 'non-standard' accent is in play.
I don't Neil Oliver's accent difficult at all. But then I suppose I'm almost Scottish
Never really come across a television / radio program where I couldn't understand the narrator.
Out of interest, is English your first language? I can appreciate that some of the regional quirks might be tricky for someone to handle.
Maybe I'm biased. I had a very strong north-eastern accent when I first left home and had to make a conscious effort to tone it down a little bit, so maybe subconsciously I focus on other peoples speech when a 'non-standard' accent is in play.
I don't Neil Oliver's accent difficult at all. But then I suppose I'm almost Scottish
Post edited at 12:22
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In reply to Chris Harris:
The waiter brought a plate to my table, and I looked down to see it contained two large black dots.
"Excuse me" I said, "This isn't right. I asked for an omelette"
> Yes, no umlauts or circumflexes please.....
The waiter brought a plate to my table, and I looked down to see it contained two large black dots.
"Excuse me" I said, "This isn't right. I asked for an omelette"
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In reply to Hyphin:
Sort of proves my point really that you have to read it (or if spoken - listen to it) a few times to work out what if anything is being said - maybe it works better with gestures?
> nae doot sum biddy will be alang tae tell yea tae feck aff any time noo, fact consider it dun.
Sort of proves my point really that you have to read it (or if spoken - listen to it) a few times to work out what if anything is being said - maybe it works better with gestures?
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In reply to m0unt41n:
Have to disagree. I love hearing all UK accents, have never had a problem understanding anyone and would like to here more on the TV and radio.
There is a rich and diverse linguistic culture out there and it should be heard.
Neil Oliver may well ham his accent up a bit, but then, so have many more 'well spoken' BBC presenters before him.
Have to disagree. I love hearing all UK accents, have never had a problem understanding anyone and would like to here more on the TV and radio.
There is a rich and diverse linguistic culture out there and it should be heard.
Neil Oliver may well ham his accent up a bit, but then, so have many more 'well spoken' BBC presenters before him.
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In reply to m0unt41n:
I'll leave you to visualise the gestures!!!
> Sort of proves my point really that you have to read it (or if spoken - listen to it) a few times to work out what if anything is being said - maybe it works better with gestures?
I'll leave you to visualise the gestures!!!
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In reply to m0unt41n:
And I don't suppose you have a regional accent ?
I'm not Scottish either but I like Neil Olivers accent. Its really easy to understand unless you'll led a sheltered life.
And I don't suppose you have a regional accent ?
I'm not Scottish either but I like Neil Olivers accent. Its really easy to understand unless you'll led a sheltered life.
In reply to Dave Perry:
I GUESS I HAVE MORE OF A MONGREL ACCENT SINCE MY PARENTS WERE FROM SCOTLAND & THE NE AND I HAVE SPENT MORE OF MY LIFE LIVING AWAY FROM THE SE THAN IN IT. Which is harder work to read than if it was in normal case. Same as if it was in Gothic or Comic Sans instead of Times Roman or Arial. Ditto accents when the Medium is not meant to be the Message.
> And I don't suppose you have a regional accent ?
I GUESS I HAVE MORE OF A MONGREL ACCENT SINCE MY PARENTS WERE FROM SCOTLAND & THE NE AND I HAVE SPENT MORE OF MY LIFE LIVING AWAY FROM THE SE THAN IN IT. Which is harder work to read than if it was in normal case. Same as if it was in Gothic or Comic Sans instead of Times Roman or Arial. Ditto accents when the Medium is not meant to be the Message.
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In reply to m0unt41n:
Having had a quick look for the documentary in question I'd suggest that if Maxine Peake has such a strong regional accent that you can't understand her then the fault lies firmly at your end of the communication.
Edit: In fact it seems entirely appropriate to have a documentary about Jodrell Bank in a Manchester accent.
Having had a quick look for the documentary in question I'd suggest that if Maxine Peake has such a strong regional accent that you can't understand her then the fault lies firmly at your end of the communication.
Edit: In fact it seems entirely appropriate to have a documentary about Jodrell Bank in a Manchester accent.
Post edited at 14:01
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In reply to alan moore:
Even Birmingham?
And that Worzel Gummidge one can be tricky
But I love that West Indian Radio 4 announcer; could listen to him all day without actually bothering with any of the programmes.
Neil Oliver is great too.
> Have to disagree. I love hearing all UK accent.
Even Birmingham?
And that Worzel Gummidge one can be tricky
But I love that West Indian Radio 4 announcer; could listen to him all day without actually bothering with any of the programmes.
Neil Oliver is great too.
Post edited at 14:25
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In reply to m0unt41n:
Seems really odd that you struggle with Neil Oliver's accent given that you have exposure to your parent's Scottish accent. Neil's seems quite mild compared to some Scots I know.
> I GUESS I HAVE MORE OF A MONGREL ACCENT SINCE MY PARENTS WERE FROM SCOTLAND & THE NE AND I HAVE SPENT MORE OF MY LIFE LIVING AWAY FROM THE SE THAN IN IT. Which is harder work to read than if it was in normal case. Same as if it was in Gothic or Comic Sans instead of Times Roman or Arial. Ditto accents when the Medium is not meant to be the Message.
Seems really odd that you struggle with Neil Oliver's accent given that you have exposure to your parent's Scottish accent. Neil's seems quite mild compared to some Scots I know.
In reply to ThunderCat:
My point was that unless an accent of the narrator served a specific purpose then there was no point in complicating things. I can understand Neil Oliver, although it takes a bit more effort, and as such seems pointless unless his accent adds to the programme.
I will keep coming back to my analogy that whilst producing a book in Comic Sans is still readable, why on earth do it when Times Roman is much clearer and easier to use by the majority of users.
As far as the program goes it was about Sir Bernard Lovell who most definitely did not speak with a regional accent. The location of the telescope and whatever the local accent there may be, other than it was in Britain, was an irrelevance as far as the program was concerned.
My point was that unless an accent of the narrator served a specific purpose then there was no point in complicating things. I can understand Neil Oliver, although it takes a bit more effort, and as such seems pointless unless his accent adds to the programme.
I will keep coming back to my analogy that whilst producing a book in Comic Sans is still readable, why on earth do it when Times Roman is much clearer and easier to use by the majority of users.
As far as the program goes it was about Sir Bernard Lovell who most definitely did not speak with a regional accent. The location of the telescope and whatever the local accent there may be, other than it was in Britain, was an irrelevance as far as the program was concerned.
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In reply to m0unt41n:
The 'accentless' accent that you find easy to understand is only easy for you to understand because you have had so much practice at hearing it. If you had heard a 'regional' accent often and the 'accentless' accent rarely, then the former would be the one you would find easier to understand. Many other countries manage multiple languages perfectly well. This country could do with getting more practice in at managing multiple accents i.e. the answer is more exposure to more accents, not a narrowing down to a dominant accent.
The 'accentless' accent that you find easy to understand is only easy for you to understand because you have had so much practice at hearing it. If you had heard a 'regional' accent often and the 'accentless' accent rarely, then the former would be the one you would find easier to understand. Many other countries manage multiple languages perfectly well. This country could do with getting more practice in at managing multiple accents i.e. the answer is more exposure to more accents, not a narrowing down to a dominant accent.
Post edited at 18:27
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In reply to ericinbristol:
Agree entirely with the concept, except that realistically there are so many accents that few people if any could become accustomed to them for this to work. Instead there are far more people who are familiar with "accentless" speaking than anything else.
Hinterland which was a BBC Wales / S4C production is a good example of the use of local language and accent. Not a particularly good example since it was not a documentary, but for English speakers the fact that you might miss bits because of the accent did not matter because it was brilliant in conveying the overall feeling. Helped by great photography and scenery.
But again following my analogy, we could all learn to read Gothic Script, Comic Sans, Lucinda script etc but why bother when Times Roman is usually the most comfortable for the majority to read.
Edit: I have spent more of my life living more than 200 miles from London than I have within the South East so the majority of my life I have been surrounded by local accents, which I have picked up bits and pieces from different places.
Agree entirely with the concept, except that realistically there are so many accents that few people if any could become accustomed to them for this to work. Instead there are far more people who are familiar with "accentless" speaking than anything else.
Hinterland which was a BBC Wales / S4C production is a good example of the use of local language and accent. Not a particularly good example since it was not a documentary, but for English speakers the fact that you might miss bits because of the accent did not matter because it was brilliant in conveying the overall feeling. Helped by great photography and scenery.
But again following my analogy, we could all learn to read Gothic Script, Comic Sans, Lucinda script etc but why bother when Times Roman is usually the most comfortable for the majority to read.
Edit: I have spent more of my life living more than 200 miles from London than I have within the South East so the majority of my life I have been surrounded by local accents, which I have picked up bits and pieces from different places.
Post edited at 19:00
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In reply to Willi Crater:
Brian Sewell was a great loss. Should have narrated every documentary n TV .....
> Quite right. About time they all started wearing dinner jackets again too.
Brian Sewell was a great loss. Should have narrated every documentary n TV .....
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In reply to Lemony:
That Bolton/Wigan mix that comes from West Houghton is pure gold - I look forward to Romeo & Juliet with MP in the female lead.
Stuart Maconie would of course be Romeo.
That Bolton/Wigan mix that comes from West Houghton is pure gold - I look forward to Romeo & Juliet with MP in the female lead.
Stuart Maconie would of course be Romeo.
Post edited at 20:13
In reply to m0unt41n:
It's largely just fashion and schtick I think: why else did Channel 4 choose to use a strong Geordie accent for the voiceovers of 'Big Brother', a programme shot way down south?
It's largely just fashion and schtick I think: why else did Channel 4 choose to use a strong Geordie accent for the voiceovers of 'Big Brother', a programme shot way down south?
In reply to m0unt41n:
Are people really that retarded that they struggle to understand regional accents. The only one I struggle with is pissed up Cumbrian, and I grew up in Cumbria.
Are people really that retarded that they struggle to understand regional accents. The only one I struggle with is pissed up Cumbrian, and I grew up in Cumbria.
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In reply to m0unt41n:
But the point is it's not really complicating things, really. If a simple straw poll of this thread is anything to go by, no one seems to have any problem whatsoever with regional accents apart from you (which is why I originally wondered if English wasn't your native tongue.
I can appreciate it may be a problem if it was Rab C Nesbitt narrating.
I dread the thought of all factual television programs being narrated by a cut glass received pronunciation speaker in the style of Mr Cholmondley-Warner.
> My point was that unless an accent of the narrator served a specific purpose then there was no point in complicating things. I can understand Neil Oliver, although it takes a bit more effort, and as such seems pointless unless his accent adds to the programme.
But the point is it's not really complicating things, really. If a simple straw poll of this thread is anything to go by, no one seems to have any problem whatsoever with regional accents apart from you (which is why I originally wondered if English wasn't your native tongue.
I can appreciate it may be a problem if it was Rab C Nesbitt narrating.
I dread the thought of all factual television programs being narrated by a cut glass received pronunciation speaker in the style of Mr Cholmondley-Warner.
In reply to m0unt41n:
You are weird.
> Really good documentary on BBC4 on Jodrell Bank this week but spoilt by a narrator with pronounced regional accent. Neil Oliver being another narrator where you have to spend time working out the message from the strangulated medium. For most documentaries the narration should just impart information preferably in accentless English. Otherwise using a strong regional accent where it adds nothing to the documentary is like setting a book in Comic Sans, doesn't usually work unless in Primary School.
You are weird.
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In reply to m0unt41n:
I'd be interested to know if you thought that Wilfred Pickles had too strong a regional accent to be employed in broad casting in his time, because that was an argument put forward by very many people.
I'd be interested to know if you thought that Wilfred Pickles had too strong a regional accent to be employed in broad casting in his time, because that was an argument put forward by very many people.
In reply to m0unt41n:
By chance I saw this programme last night. I can quite see your difficulty. In addition to Maxine Peake, who has a shockingly regional accent for such a well-known Shakespearean, there was Prof Tim O'Brien who is also disturbingly northern, Fred Hoyle who sounded like he was from Bradford or somewhere and Jocelyn Bell Burnell who is still quite clearly Scots despite her education. Why they couldn't have found equivalently expert speakers with acceptably RP delivery I can't imagine. They even spoke to barely literate locals like Alan Garner - you were fortunate to be spared Brian Cox.
As you say, at least Sir Bernard spoke properly, although you have to question his judgement in basing a project of such international significance so far north.
> My point was that unless an accent of the narrator served a specific purpose then there was no point in complicating things. I can understand Neil Oliver, although it takes a bit more effort, and as such seems pointless unless his accent adds to the programme.
> I will keep coming back to my analogy that whilst producing a book in Comic Sans is still readable, why on earth do it when Times Roman is much clearer and easier to use by the majority of users.
> As far as the program goes it was about Sir Bernard Lovell who most definitely did not speak with a regional accent. The location of the telescope and whatever the local accent there may be, other than it was in Britain, was an irrelevance as far as the program was concerned.
By chance I saw this programme last night. I can quite see your difficulty. In addition to Maxine Peake, who has a shockingly regional accent for such a well-known Shakespearean, there was Prof Tim O'Brien who is also disturbingly northern, Fred Hoyle who sounded like he was from Bradford or somewhere and Jocelyn Bell Burnell who is still quite clearly Scots despite her education. Why they couldn't have found equivalently expert speakers with acceptably RP delivery I can't imagine. They even spoke to barely literate locals like Alan Garner - you were fortunate to be spared Brian Cox.
As you say, at least Sir Bernard spoke properly, although you have to question his judgement in basing a project of such international significance so far north.
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In reply to m0unt41n:
You are wrong on this too. Whilst he adopted a soft RP accent for his 60s media appearances, in his later interviews as an old man you can hear a soft Britsolian/West Country accent. You would expect this from a Bristol grammar school boy who went on to the University of Bristol.
> As far as the program goes it was about Sir Bernard Lovell who most definitely did not speak with a regional accent.
You are wrong on this too. Whilst he adopted a soft RP accent for his 60s media appearances, in his later interviews as an old man you can hear a soft Britsolian/West Country accent. You would expect this from a Bristol grammar school boy who went on to the University of Bristol.
In reply to Dave Garnett:
"disturbingly northern". Love it
> By chance I saw this programme last night. I can quite see your difficulty. In addition to Maxine Peake, who has a shockingly regional accent for such a well-known Shakespearean, there was Prof Tim O'Brien who is also disturbingly northern, Fred Hoyle who sounded like he was from Bradford or somewhere and Jocelyn Bell Burnell who is still quite clearly Scots despite her education. Why they couldn't have found equivalently expert speakers with acceptably RP delivery I can't imagine. They even spoke to barely literate locals like Alan Garner - you were fortunate to be spared Brian Cox.
> As you say, at least Sir Bernard spoke properly, although you have to question his judgement in basing a project of such international significance so far north.
"disturbingly northern". Love it
In reply to Dave Garnett:
Good point: we should be thankful for small mercies.
In't Brian Cox amaaaaazzzing?
> ... you were fortunate to be spared Brian Cox.
Good point: we should be thankful for small mercies.
In't Brian Cox amaaaaazzzing?
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In reply to Timmd:
I didn't watch the programme but it's currently available in the Beeb's iPlayer (that's assuming you're in the UK.) See http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06pm5vf/timeshift-series-15-6-how-bri...
Edit: jumping to the end of which gives the answer to your question as 'Maxine Peake.'
I didn't watch the programme but it's currently available in the Beeb's iPlayer (that's assuming you're in the UK.) See http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06pm5vf/timeshift-series-15-6-how-bri...
Edit: jumping to the end of which gives the answer to your question as 'Maxine Peake.'
Post edited at 11:36
In reply to Rob Parsons:
Maxine Peake has such a wonderful voice that she could read out a shopping list and make interesting, must watch the doc
> I didn't watch the programme but it's currently available in the Beeb's iPlayer (that's assuming you're in the UK.) See http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06pm5vf/timeshift-series-15-6-how-bri...
> Edit: jumping to the end of which gives the answer to your question as 'Maxine Peake.'
Maxine Peake has such a wonderful voice that she could read out a shopping list and make interesting, must watch the doc
In reply to m0unt41n:
Are you seriously suggesting that people with accents shouldn't be allowed to narrate documentaries?
I guess we'll have to resort to subtitles then. let us know which font suits you and consider it done
Are you seriously suggesting that people with accents shouldn't be allowed to narrate documentaries?
I guess we'll have to resort to subtitles then. let us know which font suits you and consider it done
In reply to m0unt41n:
almost like substituting letters for numbers m0unt41n?
> I will keep coming back to my analogy that whilst producing a book in Comic Sans is still readable, why on earth do it when Times Roman is much clearer and easier to use by the majority of users.
almost like substituting letters for numbers m0unt41n?
In reply to crustypunkuk:
Isn't that what used to be known as "BBC English"?
> 'Accentless English'?
Isn't that what used to be known as "BBC English"?
In reply to m0unt41n:
His regional accent was 'educated South-East England'. There is no such thing as 'accentless', what you are doing is proposing that the accent associated with a particular socio-economic class in a particular region should be favoured above all others.
> As far as the program goes it was about Sir Bernard Lovell who most definitely did not speak with a regional accent.
His regional accent was 'educated South-East England'. There is no such thing as 'accentless', what you are doing is proposing that the accent associated with a particular socio-economic class in a particular region should be favoured above all others.
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In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
It was actually educated West Country/ Bristol. This can clearly be heard in the interviews he gave as an old man, and is consistent with a Bristol Grammar school boy who went to the University of Bristol.
It is soft RP or 'educated South-East England' he uses in the 60s tv appearances, presumably as that was expected at the time.
I do see the point you are making though, one lost on the OP. Funnily enough, an accent I don't here that much on tv is normal south east.... it's either a hammed up cockney/essex accent for football hooligan/ gangter docs, or most usual that posh south eastern you referred to (which is a regional accent).
> His regional accent was 'educated South-East England'. There is no such thing as 'accentless', what you are doing is proposing that the accent associated with a particular socio-economic class in a particular region should be favoured above all others.
It was actually educated West Country/ Bristol. This can clearly be heard in the interviews he gave as an old man, and is consistent with a Bristol Grammar school boy who went to the University of Bristol.
It is soft RP or 'educated South-East England' he uses in the 60s tv appearances, presumably as that was expected at the time.
I do see the point you are making though, one lost on the OP. Funnily enough, an accent I don't here that much on tv is normal south east.... it's either a hammed up cockney/essex accent for football hooligan/ gangter docs, or most usual that posh south eastern you referred to (which is a regional accent).
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In reply to Robert Durran:
He'd do better to be more West Indian, I think - he (Neil something?) often sounds like he's trying to BBC-ify his accent, which makes it sound a bit forced.
> But I love that West Indian Radio 4 announcer; could listen to him all day without actually bothering with any of the programmes.
He'd do better to be more West Indian, I think - he (Neil something?) often sounds like he's trying to BBC-ify his accent, which makes it sound a bit forced.
In reply to Removed UserBwox:
Neil Nunes. The accent is Manchester.
Manchester, Kingston, Jamaica that is.
Neil Nunes. The accent is Manchester.
Manchester, Kingston, Jamaica that is.
In reply to timjones:
Suggest wingdings.
> I guess we'll have to resort to subtitles then. let us know which font suits you and consider it done
Suggest wingdings.
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In reply to Rob Parsons:
Shouldn't that be 'Maxine Peakes'?
D
> Edit: jumping to the end of which gives the answer to your question as 'Maxine Peake.'
Shouldn't that be 'Maxine Peakes'?
D
In reply to m0unt41n:
I quite agree - coming from the north east, listening to John Arlott in his heyday was like listening to nails being dragged down a blackboard. Bloody southerner with his Hampshire accent should never have been allowed anywhere near a microphone. Or not.
JW
I quite agree - coming from the north east, listening to John Arlott in his heyday was like listening to nails being dragged down a blackboard. Bloody southerner with his Hampshire accent should never have been allowed anywhere near a microphone. Or not.
JW
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