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https://www.google.co.uk/search?redir_esc=&hl=en-GB&safe=images&oe=utf-8&q=julien%20blanc&source=android-browser-suggest&qsubts=1416011713144
Post edited at 01:12
In reply to aln:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/14/home-office-minister-julien...
Apologies for editing so much. Hope link works this time.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/14/home-office-minister-julien...
Apologies for editing so much. Hope link works this time.
In reply to aln:
Not much of a conversation opener! Would you sit down with your mates in a pub, say "Julien Blanc" then lean back supping your pint and expect everyone else to do the talking?
What do you think? Should he be prevented from entering the country? Was Australia right to revoke his visa? Is it a wonderful example of the real power of oft-derided 'clicktivism', given that all this came about because a Chinese woman started a petition on change.org?
Not much of a conversation opener! Would you sit down with your mates in a pub, say "Julien Blanc" then lean back supping your pint and expect everyone else to do the talking?
What do you think? Should he be prevented from entering the country? Was Australia right to revoke his visa? Is it a wonderful example of the real power of oft-derided 'clicktivism', given that all this came about because a Chinese woman started a petition on change.org?
In reply to aln:
At the very least he sounds like a thoroughly unpleasant individual and potential public nuisance.
At the very least he sounds like a thoroughly unpleasant individual and potential public nuisance.
Post edited at 20:43
In reply to Alyson:
Let him in, let him spout. Them laugh at him, deride him and ridicule him. The wonders of free speech.
Let him in, let him spout. Them laugh at him, deride him and ridicule him. The wonders of free speech.
In reply to MG:
Can you guarantee that everyone who listens to him will laugh and ridicule though?
Plus once other countries have taken a stand, we'd look a bit like a country quite comfortable with choking women if we granted him a visa...
Can you guarantee that everyone who listens to him will laugh and ridicule though?
Plus once other countries have taken a stand, we'd look a bit like a country quite comfortable with choking women if we granted him a visa...
In reply to Alyson:
No, but I am confident that more will find him abhorrent if he is given enough rope to hang himself than if he can play the "they don't want you to hear me" card.
> Can you guarantee that everyone who listens to him will laugh and ridicule though?
No, but I am confident that more will find him abhorrent if he is given enough rope to hang himself than if he can play the "they don't want you to hear me" card.
In reply to Alyson:
Actually... sometimes. For some reason I had a lot of trouble getting the link to work, took several attempts. After that I was fed up and couldn't be arsed adding anything else. I'd be happy with him not being allowed in if what he's advocating in his talks is as bad as it seems from what I've read.
> Not much of a conversation opener! Would you sit down with your mates in a pub, say "Julien Blanc" then lean back supping your pint and expect everyone else to do the talking?
Actually... sometimes. For some reason I had a lot of trouble getting the link to work, took several attempts. After that I was fed up and couldn't be arsed adding anything else. I'd be happy with him not being allowed in if what he's advocating in his talks is as bad as it seems from what I've read.
In reply to aln:
Hes a horrible excuse for a human being. I for one do not want this cretin to be allowed on our soil to spout his sexist, misogynist bullshit and to allow potentially rapist behavior to be perpetuated
Hes a horrible excuse for a human being. I for one do not want this cretin to be allowed on our soil to spout his sexist, misogynist bullshit and to allow potentially rapist behavior to be perpetuated
In reply to aln:
Reminds me of the Tom Cruise character in Magnolia, only much worse. Are these pick up artist courses a thing in the US?
Reminds me of the Tom Cruise character in Magnolia, only much worse. Are these pick up artist courses a thing in the US?
Post edited at 00:14
In reply to Alyson:
I wonder how many of the more extreme comments have been taken out of context though? Choking, date-rape drugs...does he actually espouse this? If so, he can probably be arrested. If they are flippant, ironic or simply poor attempts at humor is it really grounds to refuse a visa? They certainly aren't far removed from comments that middle-aged, suited, gents make in the pub to each other which are passed off as banter.
From what I can see the guy is nothing more than a snake oil salesman to desperate or awkward males. His website is identical in format to a million others that bait readers with grand promises over lengthly pages before revealing over-priced membership and expensive seminars.
All seems like an over-reaction to me.
I wonder how many of the more extreme comments have been taken out of context though? Choking, date-rape drugs...does he actually espouse this? If so, he can probably be arrested. If they are flippant, ironic or simply poor attempts at humor is it really grounds to refuse a visa? They certainly aren't far removed from comments that middle-aged, suited, gents make in the pub to each other which are passed off as banter.
From what I can see the guy is nothing more than a snake oil salesman to desperate or awkward males. His website is identical in format to a million others that bait readers with grand promises over lengthly pages before revealing over-priced membership and expensive seminars.
All seems like an over-reaction to me.
In reply to David Martin:
I think in Australia it was a work visa that was revoked. He was banned from working/lecturing.
Banning him from working in the UK, delivering these lectures seems an entirely reasonable reaction to me. Banning him from entering the country, less so.
I think in Australia it was a work visa that was revoked. He was banned from working/lecturing.
Banning him from working in the UK, delivering these lectures seems an entirely reasonable reaction to me. Banning him from entering the country, less so.
In reply to stevieb:
Yeah, if the way he's represented is legit, then he's pretty much a rapist and is trying to encourage others. Perhaps it's all some weird in joke...but I doubt it.
Though you have to admire the business acumen
"I'll teach you how to get girls to have sex with you! ....rape them!"
"Ah I thought this would be more like conversational coaching..can I have my money back?"
"No"
Yeah, if the way he's represented is legit, then he's pretty much a rapist and is trying to encourage others. Perhaps it's all some weird in joke...but I doubt it.
Though you have to admire the business acumen
"I'll teach you how to get girls to have sex with you! ....rape them!"
"Ah I thought this would be more like conversational coaching..can I have my money back?"
"No"
Post edited at 12:50
In reply to David Martin:
The choking thing does appear to be one of his 'methods'. He posts pictures of himself doing it on twitter with the hashtag #chokinggirlsaroundtheworld.
> I wonder how many of the more extreme comments have been taken out of context though? Choking, date-rape drugs...does he actually espouse this?
The choking thing does appear to be one of his 'methods'. He posts pictures of himself doing it on twitter with the hashtag #chokinggirlsaroundtheworld.
In reply to aln:
He's been refused entry. Not for the 1st time I imagine. This time he won't be able to use coercion, no #chokingtheUKhomeoffice to get what he wants.
He's been refused entry. Not for the 1st time I imagine. This time he won't be able to use coercion, no #chokingtheUKhomeoffice to get what he wants.
In reply to aln:
nope, not the first time. he was refused a visa for australia - deemed too sexist even for their PM!
nope, not the first time. he was refused a visa for australia - deemed too sexist even for their PM!
In reply to David Martin:
Bit late with this response but where did that comment come from? 'Middle aged suited gents?' We must live in very different worlds. In my experience of wandering the streets and drinking in pubs almost all the aggro women get comes from young men, including many about your own age, usually the worse for wear, believing they are irresistible babe magnets and using high volume can't-fail chat up lines like 'Show us your t1ts' I've yet to hear a middle aged man, suited or otherwise, nudge his pals and say 'By jove! I bet she'd love me to wander over and throttle her.'
> They certainly aren't far removed from comments that middle-aged, suited, gents make in the pub to each other which are passed off as banter.
Bit late with this response but where did that comment come from? 'Middle aged suited gents?' We must live in very different worlds. In my experience of wandering the streets and drinking in pubs almost all the aggro women get comes from young men, including many about your own age, usually the worse for wear, believing they are irresistible babe magnets and using high volume can't-fail chat up lines like 'Show us your t1ts' I've yet to hear a middle aged man, suited or otherwise, nudge his pals and say 'By jove! I bet she'd love me to wander over and throttle her.'
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
>he was refused a visa for australia
I know. Look at 'refused entry' in the context of the thread.
>he was refused a visa for australia
I know. Look at 'refused entry' in the context of the thread.
In reply to Wiley Coyote:
Its not an issue of agro to women. I'm talking the bullsh1t banter around a pub table after a few too many, clearly none of it serious, but probably offensive to any women if they overheard it. A bit like a group of girls in hen party dress loudly comparing the length of ex-boyfriends cocks.
Its not an issue of agro to women. I'm talking the bullsh1t banter around a pub table after a few too many, clearly none of it serious, but probably offensive to any women if they overheard it. A bit like a group of girls in hen party dress loudly comparing the length of ex-boyfriends cocks.
In reply to David Martin:
I hardly think BS is limited to any age prticular group from the boasting of teenager virgins to the 'If I was only 10 yrs younger...' brigade but I'm still mystified as to why you would pick the middle aged out as your target demographic. Watching a BBC report tonight the audience at his 'masterclasses' seemed to be mainly 20s and early 30s. Presumably most middle aged men have either worked out how to approach women or else admitted defeat and given it up as a bad job.
I hardly think BS is limited to any age prticular group from the boasting of teenager virgins to the 'If I was only 10 yrs younger...' brigade but I'm still mystified as to why you would pick the middle aged out as your target demographic. Watching a BBC report tonight the audience at his 'masterclasses' seemed to be mainly 20s and early 30s. Presumably most middle aged men have either worked out how to approach women or else admitted defeat and given it up as a bad job.
In reply to David Martin:
spot on.
> I wonder how many of the more extreme comments have been taken out of context though? Choking, date-rape drugs...does he actually espouse this? If so, he can probably be arrested. If they are flippant, ironic or simply poor attempts at humor is it really grounds to refuse a visa? They certainly aren't far removed from comments that middle-aged, suited, gents make in the pub to each other which are passed off as banter.
> From what I can see the guy is nothing more than a snake oil salesman to desperate or awkward males. His website is identical in format to a million others that bait readers with grand promises over lengthly pages before revealing over-priced membership and expensive seminars.
> All seems like an over-reaction to me.
spot on.
In reply to Wiley Coyote:
I'm not picking any target. I'm simply saying that the crap/quips/amusing anecdotes (whatever way we want to see them) that Blanc comes out with in his presentations or in his publicity appear little different to drunken conversations let run by men across the demographic spectrum. Both sexes come out with un-PC, misandrist/mysoginist, and off-the-cuff comments. It might annoy and anger us, but if that's only meant for the audience hearing it then I don't see a particular problem. Nobody is being forced to listen to him and if women end up seduced by his paying customers based on what he has taught them then, sorry to say it, more the fool them. If I paid for a prostitute I've hardly got grounds to go blaming the soulless experience and reduced bank balance on her for her fishnets and excessive cleavage.
The media and discussion forum traffic seem to imply Blanc is extreme, up there with Islamic hate preachers or members of the EDL. He comes to your town, your daughters will be raped. Other than the fact that he's making a living out of what he does, he doesn't appear that out of the ordinary to me. And for every person who attends his classes I imagine thousands have already figured out his lessons and put them in to action every Saturday night at their trashy local bar. Do we really need to make crass, misogynistic and manipulative comments or womanising illegal?
That said, I doubt anyone here is his target audience. So its hard to know for sure what goes on in his classes. But it appears largely a claim of "Women can be putty in your hands. Be confident, prey on their weaknesses and for only $99.99 a month I can provide you with ongoing, 100% successful tips to guarantee you the success you've been deprived".
The crux complaint of all that appears to be that he has a) seemingly walked up to women and grabbed their throat as a pickup line, b) says in Japan women will throw themselves at Western men and has pushed their heads in to his crotch as evidence, c) he is getting paid to tell others this, and d) (to quote a Guardian article) that “There are hours of seminar footage where Julien encourages and instructs men to objectify and manipulate women".
The first is something I would like to see the full-context of before believing he is actually telling guys to strangle women they attempting to chat up. Second is crass and disgusting, but not much different from the antics thousands of Brits get up to in <insert drunken holiday destination of your choice> every day. And as for instructing "men to objectify and manipulate women" - shock horror. Men, women and children objectify, manipulate and use to their advantage power relations to varying degrees every moment they are alive. He's hardly posing a threat to humanity.
I really don't want to defend the guy - he's clearly an arse. But the backlash against him seems worse than the problem he represents and we seem very quick to want to ban anyone and everything that doesn't match our own norms of behaviour.
I'm not picking any target. I'm simply saying that the crap/quips/amusing anecdotes (whatever way we want to see them) that Blanc comes out with in his presentations or in his publicity appear little different to drunken conversations let run by men across the demographic spectrum. Both sexes come out with un-PC, misandrist/mysoginist, and off-the-cuff comments. It might annoy and anger us, but if that's only meant for the audience hearing it then I don't see a particular problem. Nobody is being forced to listen to him and if women end up seduced by his paying customers based on what he has taught them then, sorry to say it, more the fool them. If I paid for a prostitute I've hardly got grounds to go blaming the soulless experience and reduced bank balance on her for her fishnets and excessive cleavage.
The media and discussion forum traffic seem to imply Blanc is extreme, up there with Islamic hate preachers or members of the EDL. He comes to your town, your daughters will be raped. Other than the fact that he's making a living out of what he does, he doesn't appear that out of the ordinary to me. And for every person who attends his classes I imagine thousands have already figured out his lessons and put them in to action every Saturday night at their trashy local bar. Do we really need to make crass, misogynistic and manipulative comments or womanising illegal?
That said, I doubt anyone here is his target audience. So its hard to know for sure what goes on in his classes. But it appears largely a claim of "Women can be putty in your hands. Be confident, prey on their weaknesses and for only $99.99 a month I can provide you with ongoing, 100% successful tips to guarantee you the success you've been deprived".
The crux complaint of all that appears to be that he has a) seemingly walked up to women and grabbed their throat as a pickup line, b) says in Japan women will throw themselves at Western men and has pushed their heads in to his crotch as evidence, c) he is getting paid to tell others this, and d) (to quote a Guardian article) that “There are hours of seminar footage where Julien encourages and instructs men to objectify and manipulate women".
The first is something I would like to see the full-context of before believing he is actually telling guys to strangle women they attempting to chat up. Second is crass and disgusting, but not much different from the antics thousands of Brits get up to in <insert drunken holiday destination of your choice> every day. And as for instructing "men to objectify and manipulate women" - shock horror. Men, women and children objectify, manipulate and use to their advantage power relations to varying degrees every moment they are alive. He's hardly posing a threat to humanity.
I really don't want to defend the guy - he's clearly an arse. But the backlash against him seems worse than the problem he represents and we seem very quick to want to ban anyone and everything that doesn't match our own norms of behaviour.
In reply to David Martin:
From what I know of Julien Blanc he seems like a puke. But I also find myself agreeing with your post.
From what I know of Julien Blanc he seems like a puke. But I also find myself agreeing with your post.
In reply to aln:
I don't like anything I've read about him and think he could be potentially dangerous by persuading impressionable men into thinking very bad behaviour is acceptable because "women love it!" (and no doubt there will be some women it works on which will only encourage the behaviour further). I did try and do a bit of research on him but other than out of context media spin and his much more carefully worded website (ie. no mention of the things he's been accused of other than him coming across as an arrogant misogynist). I was on my phone at the time so perhaps didn't investigate far enough.
Basically, if I could find some hard evidence that the things he's said represent what he's done then I'd sign the petition, but as I can't I feel best leaving the decision of those who's business it is to make these decision.
If anyone has a link showing anything showing what this choking is about (I've seen a picture of him with his hand around a girl's throat but it didn't prove he was being aggressive or that she was unhappy with it, he could have been acting out a story and she was laughing throughout for all I could see) then I'll certainly take a look.
Despite my reluctance to judge due to lack of evidence, I certainly don't like what I've read even ignoring those accused acts, I'll quite happily label him scum, but don't think that's reason enough to stop him entering the UK.
I don't like anything I've read about him and think he could be potentially dangerous by persuading impressionable men into thinking very bad behaviour is acceptable because "women love it!" (and no doubt there will be some women it works on which will only encourage the behaviour further). I did try and do a bit of research on him but other than out of context media spin and his much more carefully worded website (ie. no mention of the things he's been accused of other than him coming across as an arrogant misogynist). I was on my phone at the time so perhaps didn't investigate far enough.
Basically, if I could find some hard evidence that the things he's said represent what he's done then I'd sign the petition, but as I can't I feel best leaving the decision of those who's business it is to make these decision.
If anyone has a link showing anything showing what this choking is about (I've seen a picture of him with his hand around a girl's throat but it didn't prove he was being aggressive or that she was unhappy with it, he could have been acting out a story and she was laughing throughout for all I could see) then I'll certainly take a look.
Despite my reluctance to judge due to lack of evidence, I certainly don't like what I've read even ignoring those accused acts, I'll quite happily label him scum, but don't think that's reason enough to stop him entering the UK.
In reply to aln:
He's not been convicted, there are video's which look bad.
I think all this witch hunt media campaigns are pretty disgusting tbh.
Whats wrong with formal processes, see if he has committed a crime, something in bad taste is not a crime.
Him and his boss come across as a total arse and possibly more but I'd rather the courts where he did these acts decide rather than snap shots of situations in which we do not know the context.
There is so much petitions and on line campaigns at the moment, by people who chirp on about freedoms and then want to curtail anything they don't agree with or which may offend..
The guy comes across as an arse duping desperate guys for money like many other millions of dodgy salesman and scam artists which litter the globe..
People with too much time on their hands spouting hot air from their key boards..
He's not been convicted, there are video's which look bad.
I think all this witch hunt media campaigns are pretty disgusting tbh.
Whats wrong with formal processes, see if he has committed a crime, something in bad taste is not a crime.
Him and his boss come across as a total arse and possibly more but I'd rather the courts where he did these acts decide rather than snap shots of situations in which we do not know the context.
There is so much petitions and on line campaigns at the moment, by people who chirp on about freedoms and then want to curtail anything they don't agree with or which may offend..
The guy comes across as an arse duping desperate guys for money like many other millions of dodgy salesman and scam artists which litter the globe..
People with too much time on their hands spouting hot air from their key boards..
In reply to Scarab9:
"If anyone has a link showing anything showing what this choking is about (I've seen a picture of him with his hand around a girl's throat but it didn't prove he was being aggressive or that she was unhappy with it, he could have been acting out a story and she was laughing throughout for all I could see) then I'll certainly take a look."
Exactly.. the pictures I saw show him being holding a girls throat, I'm not sure he's choking her, nor does she look or appear to be particularly threatened.
"If anyone has a link showing anything showing what this choking is about (I've seen a picture of him with his hand around a girl's throat but it didn't prove he was being aggressive or that she was unhappy with it, he could have been acting out a story and she was laughing throughout for all I could see) then I'll certainly take a look."
Exactly.. the pictures I saw show him being holding a girls throat, I'm not sure he's choking her, nor does she look or appear to be particularly threatened.
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