UKC

We are lucky enough to have very fast fibre broadband (B4RN) giving us 600 or more per sec, so we think something else is causing the TV to pause and buffer, usually for a few seconds but often several times an hour. What is the likely cause?

Probably caused by a rubbish HDMI cable.
This one should fix your buffering problems:
https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost-valhalla-2-4k-uhd-hdmi-cable?srsltid=A...

Which channels/ streaming services? Tv connected by wire or Wi-Fi? What is the media player?

Very amusing.

Thanks.

Seems to be mainly on BBC I player, but I haven’t made notes.

HDMI cable to the router.

I don’t know what a media player is.

Could be worth checking your ping speed. You can have the fasted download rate in the world, but if your ping is slow for some reason, there will be a delay in downloading causing a buffer pause.

https://www.netmeter.co.uk/ping-test/

Anything under 50ms, and ping likely isn't the issue. Should really be under 20ms these days.

We have problems when things like onedrive or google photos sync up. It hogs the upload rate, which won't be anywhere near your download rate, and like the ping issue, will cause request delays. Turn all your phones, laptops etc off and see if the problem goes away.

Could also be BBC IPlayer servers, but this wouldn't be isolated to you so unlikely.

Restarting your router, TV or whatever processes the video and internet may be worth while.

I'm probably a decade out of date now, but is HDMI to a router a thing? Do you mean ethernet cable? I assume the TV is doing the processing here? Either way, wifi issues can probably be discounted if it's connected by cable. If you are connecting by wifi, try changing channels in the router settings to avoid interference from neighbours.

Failing the above, call your provider, they can test the line usually whilst you're on the phone and detect errors (or do this first if the above sounds too complicated).

I don't think ping speed makes much difference on asymmetric streaming because your data is coming down in a big chunk and so once it has got going latency shouldn't matter that much. For video calls where you're sending real time data up and down randomly it makes more difference. 

I find out of all the streaming services, iPlayer has the most problems but then it's free and immensely popular so not surprising. We use it on Google Chromecast TV and find that restarting the app and clearing the cache sometimes helps. 

Agree about HDMI. Guessing the OP means ethernet cable.

we get buffering on a firestick plugged into a TV. From what I can gather, lots of other devices using the wifi can cause a problem. I realised that whilst streaming, my three kids are on xbox/ipads, my wife is on her phone, and so am I (the curse of social media!!)

Possible solutions for me are to upgrade my firestick to a better one, upgrade my wifi routers from 5 to 6e (expensive) or force everyone to watch the tv with me with 100% attention (impossible)

Re new wifi tech , I briefly looked into this and seems wifi 7 is coming this year, so decided to wait. Would be interested if anyone here has upgraded to 6e and found it any better?

The actual media files for anything you watch on BBC iPlayer come from third party CDNs like akamai

Ethernet would be more usual...

Our "smart" TV got to a state where Netflix was unwatchable, Disney+ 50/50, and iPlayer on occasion. Stuttering, lags, un-sync'd audio/video...

Simply put, the processing power of TVs is really poor, and as with all techy stuff, just gets bloated and slows down with updates over time.

I've now got an Nvidia Shield Pro and it's sorted everything out. Not cheap, but means the TV is actually watchable, has a better UI, quicker to use and has more than enough CPU power and RAM to actually function.

Just bought two to contrast and compare. I'll let you know how I get on.

Fun topic Rog!!

Q&A first pls:

1. What make/model of TV?
2. How is your TV connected to the internet?  Wired or Wifi?

#1 piece of advice ... is to wire your TV and not run it off Wifi i.e. Ethernet cable under the floor between the router and the TV. 

This has 2x benefits 1/ it gives you a SUPER stable connection to the internet from your TV and 2/ it takes load off your wifi network so that wifi runs faster for everyone else.  Win-win.   But this brings us onto an important point .. if you've already got a busy wifi network and then you add the TV and ask for HD content either A/ You'll get it and everyone else might buffer or B/ you'll buffer and everyone might stay good or C/ everyone might get poor performance ... point being that wifi doesn't have infinite capacity of through put for more devices streaming more content.  As the number of internet enabled devices in your home increases you may find that you need to protect your bandwidth .. that means wiring things that are happy to be wired, TV's being the most obvious culprits.

Want to check if its your wifi connection and if wiring the TV would help?  ANS = leave your TV where it is and lay your hands on (borrow) a long Ethernet cable - 10m maybe.  Wire the TV straight into the router and report back.  

If you're keen on DIY and your house lends itself to it (its more involved in older houses - a good sized void under the floor makes it much easier) .. this is a very achievable DIY job.  I can provide some direction if you'd like.  I have 2x CAT 6E cables running to the back of each TV's in the house.  (Why 2x you ask?  Because I don't much want to do the job again .. and if I ever knacker 1x cable then I've got the spare ready to roll.  Negligible cost to stick a 2nd Ethernet cable in while I was doing the job anyway.)

#2 You don't need 600mbps wifi to run HD content on your TV.  In fact .. if you do follow my advice above and wire your TV you'll probably find that you only get 100mpbs at the TV anyway but it will still stream all your HD content happily.

Q:  Explain how if I have 600mpbs fibre broadband and I wire my TV .. that I end up with 100mpbs on my TV?

A:  Most TV's .. even the super high end £4000+ TV's, have a 100mpbs Ethernet card in them i.e. it doesn't matter how fast you have it coming into the house, the Ethernet card on the TV is going to negotiate it down to 100mbps.  The manufacturers know that you can stream 4k content off Netflix with a 100mbps card ... so why would they install (at extra expense and hence reduced profit to them) a gigabit card into a TV that doesn't need it?  

This also tells you that over the wifi .. you only need 100mpbs but it needs to be STABLE.   Stable is what a wired connection gives you.  Remember .. its not just "what is my speed now" ... it's how stable is my connection over a typical 1(?) hr of TV watching.  You might have a great connection now but if it's dropping in and out .. that's going to cause buffering.

Since you have a smart TV .. you should be able to get a browser up on it.  Try something like https://packetstats.com to get a chart of stability of your connection up.  You'll need to leave it running to monitor it.

Happy to share some ideas on the DIY practicalities of running Ethernet CAT 6E/setting up a home network if you're interested.  Very doable .. but needs a little forethought before diving in.

HDMI cables are not the cause of buffering. The spinning circle buffer icon is literally the software putting you on hold saying it is trying to load ahead the next few seconds of content from the internet source. HDMI is just dumb plumbing between your devices and won't really trigger the buffer symbol. 

If there is a problem with HDMI I would expect it to be a frozen picture rather than anything else. This is why buying a high quality hdmi cable is a waste.of time but used to be a great upsell to the gullible in Dixons etc. Your picture is either transmitted or it's not. There's variation in quality. 

We'll soon find out when I buy those two HDMI cables. Surely spending £7k will get me a better picture than the Amazon Basics HDMI cables that I have throughout my home?

Ah sorry, missed the joke as I never bothered following the link. Is only £3,7k now so time to snap up a limited time bargain!

I could never get my TV to work but Xbox, Fire Stick and computer devices all perfect. I get the impression that TV manufacturers put minimal effort into that area of the TV ( some must be ok?)

It may be that. Has a square plug - is that ethernet?
 

while I thank all those who have replied, I have to admit  I don’t understand most of it.

I occasionally get this problem too. I'm with Virgin and becaise I refused to pay their inflated prices, they put me on a lower package which meant that my TV, internet and telephone all went through broadband. Nice idea till the Broadband goes down and I lose contact with the outside world.

Also I got a small beermat sized device that plugs into my TV and can be a world of pain buffering. Thankfully I have an eithernet cable from it to my Router. I still occasionally get buffering but nowhere as near bad as when I use WiFi. The WiFi has direct line of sight of three meters but it was enough to frustrate me so I now have an eithernet cable doing a better job.

I bought 50 meters of cable and some RJ45 connectors from Amazon and now I never have to worry about buying eithernet cable for a few years.

Welcome to the future of copper-free telephony...

As has been said above, the problem won't lie with the HDMI cable. Common symptoms of HDMI/video signal problems will be a total lack of image, digital noise, obviously forked image, etc. Whatever your issue is, it is a data issue. It could be the Internet, it could be the local network. Checking your profile, it probably isn't your teenage son Torrenting porn, but other network activities could easily have an impact if your LAN is a bit suboptimal. Even WiFi signal congestion. 

When the issue happens, I'd get on your computer and do a speed test. The results will help confirm if it is the Internet connection or not - but my money is on the problem being with the local network.

https://www.speedtest.net/

We are also losing the BBC pips because of this brave new world.

Very interesting to listen to this BBC podcast

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001w0yw

It doesnt matter if it is only 3m. If everyone else on your street is using the same wifi channel, there will be interference. Devices, alter their power and retransmit data if there is congestion. With ethernet, its just your device and the router.

My router has a mix of 2.5 and 5ghz. I don't live in a large city and there are probably a maximum of probably 5 houses within a 15 meter radius. I think its safe to say that I'm not struggling for competition with WiFi signal congestion.

Yeah, and free delivery!

Better get one of these too

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum-science-audio-silver-extreme-level-uk-...

If that is the case, then you might need this:
https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost-valhalla-2-ethernet-cable
Note, the 1 metre cable is an affordable £3430 and the 7 metre cable is slightly more expensive at £6490.

I have a download speed of about 700-900MB/s and have the same very frustrating issue. As my TV is slightly older I am suspicious the network adapter in the TV wasn't designed for 4k so my next plan is to wire it up to the router. If that doesn't solve it the only answer is that the servers from the streaming companies don't have enough bandwidth for their customer base. 

Ffs. Ive got 7 bridges in the yard. Bargain for a quick sale. 

Can I say FFS again?

I'm quite surprised by that price scale, I'd have thought it would increase exponentially with length, judging by the mug price structure. 

I do hope these giys are selling sheds loads of product to rich suckers.

Have you confirmed that with something like WiFiAnalyzer, or the equivalent utility in your router?

Save relying on a hunch.

"QSA fuses are designed to enhance audio systems, a crucial component historically overlooked." - there's an obvious reason it's been historically overlooked.

But I don't know why you were looking at one of their cheaper fuses...

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum-science-audio-gold-extreme-level-uk-ma...

And I do wonder why they're not pairing this cable with the gold fuse...

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost-odin-2-uk-mains-power-cable-with-qsa-s...

You can say FFS several times as far as I'm concerned because I certainly am 😁

I reckon one could spend £50k without getting any actual equipment that might create, amplify or actually introduce some sound waves into the room.

Edit: make that £100k - forgot to go for the 5m length of cable, but here's the killer statement...

"These QSA fuses have been tried, tested and approved as an immediate improvement to these Nordost power cables, offering performance that compares to alternative cables at twice the price!"

Does that mean there are cables out there costing £100k for approx 5m that I'm blissfully unaware of - oh the shame of ignorance 🤣🤣🤣

Edit2: just had a better look around the website, I think the winner so far is...

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost-odin-2-speaker-cable-factory-terminate...

but I definitely need the 4m version, unfortunately I can't afford the extra for DeoxIT Gold G-Series Contact Enhancer - whatever that might be

I have a 15 year old tv and am on 12mbps and can’t remember any buffering. Could this be your bandwidth restricted by your provider? Some knowledgeable person will say yes or no. 

B4RN (Broadband for the Rural North) is a non profit provider which  says it provides speeds up to 1gbps. Just tested it and it’s well over 200mps, so should be enough for any conceivable use.

These are always good for a laugh and that fuse someone mentioned is a new one on me. Just imagine blowing your £4k plug fuse 😂

But this ethernet cable takes the biscuit. From the description: "By meticulously cutting each conductor at calculated and equal lengths, Nordost reduces internal microphony and high frequency resonance. The precise cut of each conductor, at a length which is determined by the cable’s geometry, material, and application, guarantees the uniform arrival of all signals, dramatically reducing timing errors." The Ethernet specification requires all the pairs to have different twist rates and therefore be different lengths, and so the signals arrive at different times. So, a cable that was built to their description would be a terrible ethernet cable.

WiFi Analyser is an excellent little app with pride of place on my phone. 😁

Our Sony TV isn’t that old and is meant to be “smart” but is actually pretty dumb and is not compatible to some streaming platforms (BBC IPlayer the main one we want)

So we bought a Roku device and this connects to the router via Wi-Fi and then the TV via HDMI cable. Can highly recommend it…. https://www.roku.com/en-gb/products/players
 

So could try this route to rule out your TV being the source of the problem.

That’s possibly what I need. We’ve had the TV for about 6-7 years so I suppose it’s outdated. Only thing is, we need another remote like a hole inthe head. Any other observations on this thing?

I ordered the 7 metre one which arrived last night. I’ve just cut it into 7 x 1 metre lengths, which equates to a £17,000 saving !!!

Had very similar problem and solution.

Apparently I Player is often a problem regarding compatibility and software on devices may not be updated for it. Might be partly that TVs are not updated by manufacturer or that eg Roku gets no fee from BBC when their it's streams are viewed? I put a Roku on our neighbour's old TV and IPlayer alone problematic (only small part of I Player screen visible so very difficult to find anything).

Incidentally our original Roku became hard to use after a few years inc long buffering. A new one solved problem.

I'm no expert.

Don’t ruin your hifi with such cheap speaker wire, I use these…..

https://www.audioaffair.co.uk/atlas-asimi-speaker-cables-terminated-pairs?c...

I have a Roku Streambar and I’m very happy with it. It’s a streaming device and soundbar combined. Some streaming services such as ITVX buffer on my other devices but not on the Roku, even though it is connected by Wi-Fi and, for example, my Firestick is on Ethernet. The sound on it is great, much better than the TV, especially for mumbly dialogue. The way I have it set up I don’t need the tv remote because I watch everything streamed through the Roku. It has every streaming service I need. 

The Roku was easy to set up, easy to use and the remote is very good.

As Oldie has said our TV didn’t have the right firmware for IPlayer from the get go. Pretty disappointing but thankfully the Roku device works well.

Every possibility that it won’t solve your buffering issue but it will rule out the TV interface as the problem.

Yep - given the "age" of your TV, a new streamer will work wonders.

Do a teenie bit of research - as others have said, not all streamers include all services.

Nvidia Shield / Shield Pro (which I went for) DOES have them all; iPlayer, ITV, Channel 4 etc plus the usual Netflix, Amazon etc.

Once connected, you only need the one remote. It turns everything on, controls the volume, has speech input for searching. 

Edit: The only thing it DOESN'T offer is live TV, and so control of live TV, like switching channels. We've not watched live TV for years, aside from the Queen's funeral which is streamed live on iPlayer.

That's actually excellent value because you get 10m for that price

I don't understand why they use cheapskate materials such as silver - I always thought that gold was meant to be a better conductor - silver's currently at approx £18/ounce whereas gold is approx £1,600

£1m+ speaker cables anyone?

No; it's silver, copper, then gold:

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/conductors-d_1381.html

Gold plating is used because it prevents oxidation.

ps. there's always

https://www.machinadynamica.com/

Though it seems to have gone dormant...

If this is the only issue don't get rid of the TV.

My TV is 13 years old and still going strong. And it was a cheap TV when I bought it.

I use a FireTV dongle which plugs in to the HDMI. Think I paid £30 for it a few years ago. Might be more now. But you can install whatever you want on them, and I find they work really well. Never had a buffering issue.