Cont...
In reply to James:
> My first lead was on Sunday at the Roaches. I did Ascent of man E3 6a.
Hey, that's cool, well done. I guess bouldering does a lot of good eh... Well done on eschewing walls too. Now if you can just focus more on proper climbing...
In reply to Nik at Work:
> fiend you are way off the target on this one I'm afraid.
How so?? Because headpointing KK is really newsworthy?? Because James, being young, is exempt from having any ethical awareness?? Because falling onto a mat is really an E7 fall and worth raving about??
In reply to James again:
> The people I climb with are teaching me.
Well they don't seem to be teaching you any ethics. That's the issue - it's nothing to do with you, it's the whole system, it's FC and everyone, not giving a shit, following the same old headpointing party line.
In reply to Luisa Guiles:
> Thats a bit over the top dont you think?
Maybe but it's still issues that should be raised (and this is NOT about James it is about FC's entire post) instead of just blindly accepting the same old headpointing stuff.
In reply to Jimi:
> Well lots of people have given you a deserved roasting, so I won't.
Deserved my arse. You actually seem to agree with me so I have no idea what you're saying....except that you want to join in the crowd, yes??
In reply to midgets:
> But what's your point, exactly?
My point really is that Freeclimb should show more ethical awareness when he posts and that all these acheivements (climbing and falling) shouldn't be so exaggerate from what they actually are.
However, yours is the most interesting post I've seen. Yes there is a sub-point I'm making about trying to encourage onsighting and climbing at the real standard a grade indicates. And yes, you are right I'm doing the negative way, by arguing against headpoint acheivements. Maybe I will try positivity but given the general standard of response on this thread I doubt people would get something as subtle as
"Good effort James, learn your trade and you'll soon be able to onsight E7, and that's where it's at". And as I say my main point was against FC's rave reporting.
In reply to Chris Cole :
> How many people go out and onsight E7! - You either have to be Fuc*ing good like that Ben Heason bloke
Yes and that is genuinely bloody impressive and deserves a lot of respect. Credit where credit is due.
> My point is, What is wrong with people headpointing? I dont do it myself, but I recognise it as a valid, and really quite sensible style of ascent.
The problem with headpointing (and mats) is not what it is, it's the way it's treated as the norm, the way it's not questioned, and the way people claim routes (and falls) based on it.
In reply to Woker:
> However wrong fiend is with his E0 grading revolution and general dribble chit chat, he is in my opinion correct that headpointing of this form, is top roping.
Nice bit of crowd following there - even tho you agree you've got to add the obligatory anti-Fiend insult. Even more impressive that you are decrying something very positive I attempted and that I still haven't seen a convincing refutation of.
In reply to uncle:
> just don't top route for top roping... that is stupid
Why?? Why is headpointing better than top-roping....you're still not climbing the route at it's real standard of difficulty. You're just drawing an even more arbitrary line there.
> Most top end routes have little or no gear, whereas most bottom end routes have gear. So, if you're climbing S and you want to push it to VS then you will be pretty damned safe in just going for the onsight. Whereas if you climb E6 and you want to climb E7 you could hurt yoruself quite badly going for the onsight.
Firstly people climb bold bottom-end - and middle-end - routes onsight. You could hurt yourself quite badly if you climb VS and go for Sunset Slab onsight, or climb E2 and go for Great Slab onsight. Secondly, it's up to you as an E6 leader to use your judgement and common sense (just like it is for all climbers below that level) about how dangerous an E7 is going to be and chose wisely accordingly.
And finally, I still don't understand why FC put "cheated" in his topic title and then mentions nothing further of it...