In reply to Removed UserJohn Willson:
> (In reply to Removed UserPete_Frost)
>
> This thread is shot through with fallacies.
The biggest one being anything to do with damaging the rock. Climbers consistently use this manufactured and bogus justification for what is in reality an argument about the rules of the game.
Rock climbing damages the rock. And the surrounding environment.
My own view, for all the areas that I climb in, is that things should be left as they are with a trend towards removing pegs where they're really manky or totally unnecessary. I think that replacing pegs with bolts changes the rules of the game of trad climbing, and that's why I object. Even if a route is still bold, it has become an artificial and contrived challenge once the bolt-placer starts dictating where solid protection exists without the skill and judgement of the leader coming into play.
Two distinctly different experiences spring to mind:
When I led Zeppelin, I got to the peg pumped out of mind and it was shiny and new and I just about managed to clip it - I felt a massive rush of relief and got on with the rest of the route.
When I led Flytrap, I got to the 'peg runner' described by the latest guidebook scared out of my wits, to find that it no longer exists. I proceeded to psyche myself up for the hard, wet crux moves with poor protection, which I then got on with.
This is why I love trad climbing. The richness of the experience comes from mastering your response to the unknown.
With less fixed gear being added and replaced, old gear being removed, and remaining fixed gear becoming less reliable, a very small minority of routes will become a bit harder. We can now research routes pretty thoroughly before we get on them and make an informed judgement about what we want to climb - a far cry from when the pegs were first placed! All of the judgement that comes into choosing a route, and protecting it on the lead is what makes trad climbing such a rich and rewarding game to play. Changing the rules to make it safer and easier would erode what makes trad climbing distinct from other disciplines.*
*Incidentally, using bolted belays/lower-offs to protect the environment or to protect climbers where there aren't better alternatives more in keeping with trad climbing ethics does not alter the rules of the game in this way and is, in my view, a different debate. A bolt belay/lower off can have a sound argument that doesn't rely on the bogus 'damaging the rock' premise nor does it necessarily interfere with the skills and judgement needed to climb a given route.