UKC

Coming up on ITV News at Ten shortly.

DJ

In reply to Deejay:

What did it say?

I remember posting about this a few months ago.

In reply to Carpe Diem:

He said he would be starting the climb tomorrow if the weather stayed good, which he expected it too. He also said he is not a good climber but is with others who are so it will take about five to six days.
Hope it all goes well for them.

In reply to Knitting Norah:

Saw an Ian Parnell talk a few weeks ago. He was saying he was guiding Fiennes up it. Hope all goes well, seems a very dangerous hill.

Davie

In reply to Knitting Norah:

I wouldn't want to spend 6 days on the face. I spent 4 days on it, and that was more than enough!! I was terrified the weather was going to suddenly change, despite it being crystal clear blue sky. Also more itme on there, more chance of being hit by a falling rock!

In reply to Deejay:
Read about this in the sunday papers, think it was partly sponsored by the Times so might be progress reports on their website?

Kenton Cool is guiding and Ian Parnell is there as photographer according to the article.

In reply to Deejay:

I read an article in the Torygraph about this a few weeks back. I hadn't realised how many of his exploits were linked to charity fund raising.

All power to his elbow - anyone who can amputate his own frost bitten fingers with a black and decker certainly isn't short of balls.

In reply to GrahamD:

Certainly not short of balls, maybe marbles are more lacking?

Davie

In reply to Deejay:

There was an article in the Sunday Times ref his planned ascent.

In it he says how he is terrified of heights and will not look down during his ascent! Might be hard not to if he is spending 5 or 6 days on the face.

In reply to Deejay:

Sunday Times article here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1496883.ece

In reply to Steve Parker:

Blog with updates:

http://www.myspace.com/ranulphfiennes

In reply to Deejay: well good luck to him and ihopefully it will al go wrong from what i have heard they will be very lucky to get a 6 day window of perfect weather

In reply to teddy_simmon:
Did you mean to write this?

In reply to Robert Dickson: er no hopeful it will not all go wrong

dsrry trying to do two thuings at once

In reply to teddy_simmon:

Thank you for clarifying.

In reply to I am the God of Strathyre:

Digits surely?

In reply to nicholas Barrowclough: have you done the eigerwand?

In reply to Erik B:

Yes, he has.

In reply to Erik B:

There is a post about it every week, almost like asking if Norrie has done psychedelic wall.

In reply to Burnsie:

Did you like Psychedelic Wall when you did it?

In reply to Burnsie: Has Norrie done the Eigerwand?

In reply to Burnsie: Has Nick done Psychedelic Wall?

In reply to Burnsie: Are the two interchangeable, or mutually exclusive?

In reply to CENSORED:

I seem to recall you are not good enough as a winter climber to even set foot on Psychedelic Wall.

When are you going to post about a winter route that you have done?

In reply to Norrie Muir:
Dear Norris,
I spent three rather wet days up in Scotland back in January, that's my lot for this season, as my wife was pregnant until last month and now I'm a dad again, I need to pull my weight with the toddler (yes there's (plenty of it to pull, before you even go there).

Regards as ever,
C

In reply to CENSORED:



When are you going to post about a winter route that you have done?

In reply to Norrie Muir: Would you like to hear about my ascent of the Steall Waterfall back in December 1995? A lot of your posts seem to be about your past...

In reply to Norrie Muir: Or maybe Aber Falls in February 1996 ?

In reply to teddy_simmon:

you have mail

In reply to CENSORED:

eric jones has.

In reply to CENSORED:

Is that all you can come up with, two routes.

In reply to Norrie Muir: You asked for 'a' route, that's singular.

In reply to CENSORED:

OK, tell me about your ascent of Aber Falls in February 1996. I was reading up about Aber falls on this thread http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=215804&v=1#3167934

In reply to GrahamD:

Actually he held them in a vice and sawed through the bone with a hacksaw - got tired of waiting for the medics to decide what to do and couldn't stand the disconfort every time he knocked the ends.

Big cojones.

DJ

In reply to Deejay:

Sounds like Big Cojones in theory, but cutting off his necrotic fingers could very easily have allowed infection to set into his remaining hand and arm, leading to further loss of limb. A good reason why his docs told him to let the deid digits drop aff naturally.
His recovery to do marathon running after heart bypass surgery (against medical advice) was commendable IMO, but self amputation counts as nothing less than stupid to me.
All the same, I wish him well on the Eiger.

Davie

In reply to I am the God of Strathyre:

Further report on News at Ten tonight.

DJ

In reply to Norrie Muir:

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Yawn

In reply to smart guy:

Yes, you would be bored as this is about climbing, which you have never did.

In reply to Norrie Muir:

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Yawn

In reply to smart guy: Posted elsewhere but then spotted this, we summitted this morning. Worth watching news tonight if they show the summit footage incredible helicopter stuff.

Having now spent 4 days on the face I can say that Ueli Stecks recent sub 4 hour ascent is shocking, an incredible achievement.

In reply to I Parnell:

Congratulations to yourself, Kenton and Ranulph.

DJ

In reply to I Parnell: Glad you managed to drag the old fella up their. The mans amazing.

In reply to I Parnell: I'm glad Ranulph did it, I have been critical of some of his 'gimmicky' expeditions in the past. It's good to know he is capable of something proper when pushed.

In reply to Al Evans:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Ok Mick, but his gimmicks for his polar expeditions, led me to believe the next one was going to be the 'first man to hop on one leg to the pole'. I'm glad he chose the Eiger instead, at least it regained some of his credibility!
Al

In reply to Al Evans:

5 million raised for charity....who can claim that? Sounds like a right character. More power to him.....alpine stuff...I don't care if he was guided, that's serious shit. Bloody fine effort at his age.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Some of him is good, other is dodgy, I dont want to go into it, good effort on the Eiger, good effort for charity, maybe.

In reply to Al Evans:

Sounds like most people I know.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Mick, he is only just older than me, I wouldnt think twice about being guided up the Eiger by Ian. In fact if I ever got over my injuries its still a realistic (unguided) target.

In reply to TWINKLETOES: Old Fella?, 60 is not old these days, its the new middle age. There are 60 year old Brits leading 8a. and doing big things on mountains too. Don't write us off like that.

In reply to TWINKLETOES:

He is not amazing, there are many climbers more amazing, many many, he is just a more amazing publicist.

In reply to Al Evans:

Of course he is you daft bat.


Keep on topic Al you are sounding very bitter. Yes there are lots of sixty year olds who get out there and do amazing stuff. I hope to be one myself one day...it isn't a freakin' competition you know.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Mick, I'm not bitter I am realistic, he seriously is not amazing, except at publicity. I would happily go unfit onto a guided by Ian ascent of the N of the E. I still consider I may go for an unguided ascent if I ever get fit again
There are 60 year olds leading 8a, Joe is an amazing person, even Chris is, Fiennes is not, he is a publicist. I know lots of people who know him who could tell you the truth (but I'd have to kill you). Its not a competition, never has been, but people like him think it is, so it is.
We should be aware of the people that exploit our sport, or even the outdoors outside our sport. Fiennes is one of these. I could go on, but I won't

In reply to Al Evans:

Who are Joe and Chris? And what have they done on grit?

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: :-0) Well Joe did a bit when he were a lad, Chris is just crap, only ever did E4 on grit and shinned up a few big hills.

In reply to Al Evans:

You talk of Christian Bonnington....he taught Sir Ranulph Fiennes the arts of publishity.........

0nward, Christian Bonnington, of the A.C.G.
Write another page of Alpine history
He has climbed the Eiegerwand, he has climbed the Dru--
For a mere ten thousand francs, he will climb with you:
Onward, Christian Bonnington, of the A.C.G.
If you name the mountain, he will name the fee.

Like a mighty army, faithfully we plod
Treading in the footsteps Bonnington has trod
From the Diretissima loud Hosannas! ring--
Grave, where is they victory, 0 death, where is thy sting?
Onward, Christian Bonnington, joyfully we sing,
Down with McNaught-Davis, Bonnington for King.

Live transmission will commence shortly after ten
From the Kleine Scheiegg and the Alpi-Glen.
Do not miss the spectacle, you can watch for free:
Bonnington is on the wall, Tune in on B.B.C.
Onward, Christian Bonnington, of the B.B.C

Fighting for survival, and a token fee.
When they climbed the Eigerwand, those two gallant men
They received a message (sent) from Number Ten:
Well done chaps, MacMillan said, Victory was your due;
Well done, Christian Bonnington, the Fuhrer’s proud of you
Onward, Christian Bonnington, hallowed be thy name,
Digging out a belay in the halls of fame.

-- Tom Patey

In reply to Al Evans:

Al, with Joe and Chris we are not talking about 60-yr-olds. Joe is now 76 and Sir Chris 72. (That 'even Chris' is very naughty. He is totally remarkable, and I have never met a more youthful septuagenarian.)

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Woops....should have a put a Sir before Christian Bonnington.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

.. and please spell him correctly, Mick ... Bonington.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Gordon, I know, Joe occaisionally phones me. Him and Chris are in a different ball game to Fiennes, the man sickens me.
I have no respect for him at all, nothing I can see that would make me respect him. Everybody I know who has deep knowledge of him regards him as a charlaton, I have no deep knowledge of him but I had come to that conclusion from reading between the lines of his exploits and how he chose to portray them.
It really doesn't matter, he will hopefully never be important in the history of mountaineering.

In reply to Al Evans:

Yeah you're right Al, I mean those Polar expeditions were just a load of self-promoting over-hyped bimbles. As for the Eco-races! And the nerve of the guy being dragged up the Eiger all the way to the top and taking his time about it too.

Amazing.

DJ

In reply to Al Evans:

My feeling about this is: don't worry, Al. Of course, RF will have no place in mteering history. Of course the guy probably had to jumar a hell of a lot of it, but even so, I really cannot find it within me to criticise him in any way: because it was overtly a charity stunt from the start, and to date he's raised over £5m for Madam Curie. That in itself is a huge achievement.

In reply to Deejay: The point is that Fiennes thinks he is amazing and sets out to, and succeeds in convincing loads of other people too, a lot of who should know better.
On the amazing stakes he is probably something less than a thousandth of all the brilliant adventurers and climbers out there. Its nearly all just bull shit, I guess he does what he says he does, but its nothing compared to what proper climbers do. Mick Fowler, Nick Bullock et al, real people doing real things, he sickens me.

In reply to Al Evans:

Really Al is there any point to this ranting, it makes me think that you are pretty sad.

In reply to Al Evans: I don't admire fiennes for his climbing or his polar exploits, however i think the way he uses climbing as medium to raise millions for charity is brilliant. he never comes offer as pretending to be an awsome climber, which he clearly isn't. he raise a damn sight more for charity than you ever have or will.

get of you f*cking high hourse and stop posting shite - as usual. no one cares about the prositutes you sleep with and the fact you post about on public forums about CLIMBING is begars belief.

In reply to Al Evans:

Ranulph's achievements in no way diminish the achievements of others Al and I think it's unfair to compare them. If we're talking achievements then Benedict Allen's unsupported crossing of the Amazon Basin compares favourably, in its own way, to any first ascent on an 8000m peak. You see when it's put like that it doesn't make sense does it?

I think this quote from Allen sums it all up nicely:

We are all explorers – it's part of what makes us human. You don't need to be a professional, like me, hacking through a jungle or listening to the tales of a remote tribe. We all explore, whether working as dealers in the Stock Exchange, or hunting as nomads in the heart of Borneo. And whether we gather what we discover into books, computer files or just memories, these are perhaps our most precious resource. These are our archives; our past and our future. As valuable as any fossil fuel or mineral, they help us mark where we are in space and time."

It's all relative Al, from the weekend warrior quietly leading their first HVS to a guide summiting Everest for the 3rd or 4th time.

The publicity may upset some but so what? The ascent of The Old Man of Hoy (?) was televised and may now seen by many as an important piece of climbing history yet Tom Patey appeared to be a little cynical about the whole thing in his autobiography.

DJ

In reply to Al Evans:

Give him a break, Al, he's just done something pretty amazing. Yeah, he ain't Reinhold Messner at climbing, so what!

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Ahhh Tom, dont be so cruel. my posts are thought out and reasonable, By the way I have never slept (or screwed) with a prostitute. I dont mind that you dont like my posts, but as most of them are intended to be helpful its sad that you haven't made that connection. My horse (sic) is very low. I am interested in your vehemence, why, I post only the mildest of criticisms compared to what I could do, why are you so viscious?

In reply to Al Evans: Al your posts on climbing are usually very interesting, often with lots of first hand historical infomation, which an obsessive like me finds facinating. however some of the stuff you post on here i think is too persoanl and not relivant, i don't read DTP and TCR anymore.

I don't see what your problem with ran is, he is just using his celebrity status to raise a small fortune for a very worthy cause.

"I am interested in your vehemence" knew it would get a reaction

In reply to Steve Parker: Yep Steve, I could have avoided it, and probably avoided the stick from Tom, but you will probably know me well enough by now that I'm not likely to do that,
What I am likely to do is never, ever post a post like Tom did, ill informed and with no saving grace of fact. Please Tom, don't do this. I don't want to fall out, why should we, There is no reason. lets be mates instead, if you want to discuss something with me get in touch.
Al

I suppose fiennes didn't lead any of the pitches did he? Was he dragged up or did he do it free?

In reply to Al Evans: Al the only reason i posted like that was to touch a nerve. i thought you weremaking some fairly unfair and uninformed comment on guy, just raising money for charity and having a good time while doin it.

which is what its all about init?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: Be nice to talk to you sometime, I'll explain if we ever do.
You are welcome on the Costa anytime.

In reply to JoeL 90:

Come on, man, he's in his 60s, he's not a climber, he can't stand heights. What do you reckon? He did pretty damn well getting up, whatever any elitist climbers might make of it.

Gets my respect.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
>just raising money for charity and having a good time while doin it.
Dunno about that 'good time' bit. My impression was that he was well scared much of the time, and he won't be taking up mountaineering. I agree entirely with the rest of your points, though.

In reply to Steve Parker:

Yes, his comments on the Traverse of the Gods are revealing enough.

In reply to Steve Parker: I dont know anything about the man, thats why i asked the questions. I just happen to know many rich people are dragged up everest by sherpas and was curious to see whether the same tactics had been taken with this guy as i didn't think he was an Alpinist as usually some one being guided up this route in 4 days doesn't make the climbing news.

"Come on, man, he's in his 60s, he's not a climber, he can't stand heights. What do you reckon?" i reckon he probably should be 'climbing' the N face of the Eiger

Now ive read a little more i think he should have been more respectful of the alpine style of climbing, im sure the acheivement would have been greater if he'd have climbed it without being helicoptered off the top.

I am happy he's raised money for charity and but perhaps celeb Fame Academy would have been more suitable?

In reply to JoeL 90:

I see him as someone who sets himself objectives and strives to achieve them. He's been doing that for a long time and I don't see any problem with that; especially as it's also for charity.
Ultimately all mountaineering objectives are arbitrary, so who is to say that one person's objective or style is more or less worthy than another's?
The people I admire most are genuine pioneers; but not everyone is in that league and certainly not me, so if others achieve their own personal objectives, that's fine by me.

In reply to Deejay:

I could understand it getting people's backs up if he were trying to make out that he's an accomplished climber, but fair play to him admitting that he isn't really a climber at all and he's terrified of heights.

At the end of the day even if he jumarred most of it, at 63, with missing digits and a strong fear of heights I think he did bloody well, and he raised a load of cash for a good cause to boot.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Harsh. Al's opinion may differ from yours but I don't think he deserved that.

In reply to Al Evans:

Al, I'm amazed at your attitude. I'm the world's biggest cynic when it comes to media driven bull (cf. Annabel Bond) but I really can't see anything not to admire about this. You say its the sort of thing you would contemplate doing and I sometimes contemplate it myself but the difference is he has gone out there and done more than that. There may well be "better" achievements but there doesn't have to be only one great achievement in the world. Personally I'm in awe of what he has done as I get the impression the N face is a genuinely scary and dangerous place to be no matter who you are with.

All power to him, an amazing feat on any level.

In reply to Tyler: I cannot help sympathising with Al's views. I find people who who do personal glory acts for charity particularly annoying and they won't get a penny from me. If they really care about the charitable cause they can work and give money directly.

In reply to Tyler: But you and I would do it quietly without all the hype that accompanies anything Fiennes does. How many of the people out there, or even on here, know that Nick Barrowclough, who quietly posts on here did a winter ascent a year ago. Unguided, shared the lead with his mate.
Thats a climber, and Fiennes is a publicist.

In reply to francoisecall: But its the charity that wins in the end,dos it matter if there is a bit of self publicism, look at the biger picture.

In reply to nikolai: Its not just the charity that wins, thats all part of Fiennes marketing himself, how do you think he makes his money.

In reply to Al Evans: however you look at it its the charity that gains regardless of personal self interest

In reply to nikolai: Good for the charities, but I dont have to like the man doing it or the way he does it.

In reply to Al Evans: Jimmy Saville was the same, an obnoxious man who thought he was wonderful because he raised money for charity.

In reply to Al Evans:

maybe more than you would think Al
ps those midget gems were minging (if you remember), avoidance recommended

In reply to Stac Pollaidh: to Al Evans: (This is Ian Parnell on Kenny's computer) Morning Al, bit early for ranting isn't it. Expected this kind of discussion as its always raised when "outsiders" get involved in climbing with the media. So my pennyworth having spent a fair amount of time with Ran. You are right Ran is very good at publicity, and yes he will do lots of lectures on the back of this, there will probably be a book too. If that bothers you then fine, but throughout this climb Ran has been very humble about his climbing skills and has never claimed much special about himself. In my view however he is an exceptional guy with a tremendous ability to keep battling away and push himself through an adventure that was a long way from his natural terrain. Both Kenton and I were inspired to climb with him.

2 other points if you think the charity aspect was just a byproduct of his publicity ventures then you are way off the mark. Ran's wife Ginny, his mother and his sister all died of Cancer. I've a friend who is dying of cancer too its something that leaves a massive impact on you, the sort of thing you don't fake, the sort of thing you want to do something about. Ran is doing something about it - his everest trip raised well over 2 million quid for the British Heart Foundation, it wouldn't surprise me if he did the same again for Marie Curie this time.

Final point is the question about did he do it free? The poster obviously hasn't been on the route. Almost no one does it free, Ueli Steck an his recent speed ascent, and i suspect every other party that climbed it this week, including Kenton and myself all used the fixed gear to pull on on the hardest pitches.

Anyway all part of the fun this kind of discussion. Al its a fantastic route, I hope the injuries heal up and you get a go on it. Cheers Ian

In reply to Deejay: I'll support Al. I interviewed Mr Fiennes a few years ago, and my impression was that I'd never met a man who cared as little for wilderness and as much for self-publicity.

In reply to sdodd: I'm not sure I'd polarise the thread; just 'read between the lines' in Ian's response and the inferences are obvious. This isn't to detract anything from anybody...

The motivation for ths ascent is clear:- well done all for a safe and successful ascent with the potential to do a lot of good for many people - and there aren't many alpine ascents that can have that quality!

In reply to Al Evans:

He's a professional adventurer, so he has to be a publicist, just like many pro mountaineers have to be publicists these days. He's raising money for Marie Curie because he lost 3 members of his family to cancer within a year, including his wife. Lots of us know about Nick Barrowclough, and much respect to him, but this isn't a competition, it's about having a bit of respect for a 63 year old bloke who has managed to confront some pretty major fears and get up the North Wall of the Eiger. It's not really a moment for Fiennes-slagging, Al. It's a moment for celebrating someone's achievement.

In reply to kentoncool: Well done to you and Kenton on getting yourselves up safely. I'm glad it went alright for you and you all (including Ran) deserve to be very proud of yourselves.

In reply to kentoncool:
>Kenton and myself all used the fixed gear to pull on on the hardest pitches.
Hi, Ian. Great result, and well done to you, Kenton and Ranulph. Much respect from me. Bit of a change of topic, but what kind of grades did you encounter on the hardest bits?

In reply to kentoncool: "Final point is the question about did he do it free? The poster obviously hasn't been on the route. Almost no one does it free, Ueli Steck an his recent speed ascent, and i suspect every other party that climbed it this week, including Kenton and myself all used the fixed gear to pull on on the hardest pitches." No as im sure ive said, ive never been on the N face of the eiger and intend to wait until im ready to do so(which will be a very long time or not at all). The question i asked passed no judgement on whether or not he should have, was just curious, as i know it has been done. Do I have to have a certain ability to ask questions like this? Thanks for answering my question.
Joe

In reply to Steve Parker:

V4 if you do it direct....V2 if you use that jug out right. Conditions dependent though, and safer if stack 3 pads and have 4 spotters.

Always done ground-up, helicopter descent makes it no easier.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Does a bouncy castle at the start lower the grade, or is it graded with pads taken into account?

In reply to Deejay:

Christ what a depressing thread.

I've no problem with the ascent or the manner of it - in fact I think both are admirable.

Yes, he plays the media. Impressively skillfully too.
No, he's not (by his own admission) an expert mountaineer.
But he stuck it.

And he's had the drive and vision over the years to use his various talents to the maximum. I'll be a happy man if I can say the same when I finally get old.

And Francoise - did I understand correctly that you think he should get an ordinary job and donate to charity directly? Care to estimate how long it would take you to notch up £5m like that??

Unbelievable - both the man and the reactions to it on this thread.

John

In reply to Moacs:

My feelings exactly. He sure has lived his dream - who can do better than that?

In reply to Moacs:


I'll think you will find John that as well as the critics, there are many (not all posting here) who say job well done and congratulations. I wouldn't focus too much on the negative ramblings...they are few.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Also see

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=232944

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Thanks for those Mick.

I'm glad the whole team is getting some love back too!

J

In reply to Al Evans:


Congratulations Al, a new all time low, even by your standards.

In reply to Al Evans:
>I guess he does what he says he does, but its nothing compared to what proper climbers do. Mick Fowler, Nick Bullock et al, real people doing real things, he sickens me.

On the unassisted crossing of Antarctica, Fiennes and Mike Stroud had calculated exactly how much they could feasibly manhaul on sleds. The calculation included how much bodyweight they could afford to lose over the trip without collapsing. Basically, they set off to slowly die of starvation and hard labour, and make it across with a few days to spare. You should see the pics of Ranulph afterwards - he looks like a skeleton, having lost something like 5 stones. If that's not sheer willpower in action, and not a serious achievement, then I don't know what is. I know it's fashionable to bash famous achievers, but give the man his due.

In reply to Deejay:
I think that being dragged up this route for a publicity stunt degrades and insults those that risked their lives and lost their lives trying to do the first ascent .
There were a huge amount of inspirational attempts to climb this route with quite tragic consequences for many.

To me this was total buffoonery and I am surprised the guides involved did it,were they paid ?
For them I suppose any publicity is better than none.
I suppose they have to make a living and it must be difficult at times to balance commercial pressures.

I also agree with Al Evans sentiments.

I think this was a gross insult to all the history of the Eiger NF represents.

I dont really like any form of mountain circus type events,its not what the mountains mean for me.

Apart from that RF seems a right tosser who seems to make money for charity by doing some really stuipid things.

In reply to Big Yin:

You've neatly shot yourself in the foot there. Who cares if he wants to dance naked on top of Nelson's Column if it makes a load of money for cancer research? By definition, it's not stupid. He lost 3 members of his family in quick succession to cancer. I suspect he genuinely cares about it.

In reply to Steve Parker:

I just looked it up - the sleds weighed 485 lbs at the start. Anyone fancy pulling one of them for 50 days?

In reply to kentoncool: Ian, my comments are not just out of the blue, I have met the man, twice, and I know people who are to say the least well informed and dispute some of his claims. Maybe he was misquoted, you know what the media are. Lets leave it that he raises lots for charity and I guess that has to be a good thing.I'm not suprised he was humble, his life depended on you.
I have done a feeble recce, just the solo up to the diff crack, and planned it about 5 years ago but my mate had to cry off due to work commitments.

In reply to Steve Parker: Precisely, why do it? Dogs can do the job a whole lot better, my thoughts after that were, I wonder if he'll hop it on his right leg next, then maybe change legs for his next attempt.

In reply to Deejay:

FACT: All three have taken on a challenge that 98% of us will never have the minerals to even think about – For charity.

Well bloody done.

On Ranulf Fiennes:
I don’t care that you know someone that knows someone that interviewed him and didn’t like him, in fact; I don’t care if he pulls the legs of spiders in his spare time - he took on a massive personal challenge at undenialably great personal risk for massive reward for a charity that will help a lot of people in the current cancer ridden climate probably, chances are, someone you love or at least know the more “pr” he gets for that the better. All that’s before we even start thinking about minus some fingers, heart bypass’s & age!

How many of you have donated?
http://www.justgiving.com/EigerChallenge

I doubt it but, Mod’s if you see that as commercial I’ll be quite happy to fund it for a few weeks rather than pull it.

Ranulf, Kenton & Ian
Thanks for taking on the challenge for obvious reasons but also, thanks for probably reaching the public on such a wide scale since touching the void and telling them (and maybe bringing them to) the sport witch I (and hopefully a few other people on here) feel so strongly for.

Haters:
Isn’t there an argument about top roping or E0 or something you can go and have?

Jim

In reply to Al Evans:

By the same argument, soloing the Eiger is daft, or soloing Everest without oxygen is daft. Or anything else. We should all do everything the easiest way possible. Why didn't he just fly over Antarctica? And climbing is really silly and artificial. All those people who shout 'You can walk up round the other side' are right. I'm off to Earl Crag with me ladder. Been wanting to do Desert Island Arete for ages. First laddered ascent coming up. I hope you'll be as impressed as if I'd soloed it one-handed.

In reply to Al Evans: Al your on a loser here. you may not like the man but you can't dispute the greater good for charity

In reply to Steve Parker:

Do it with no hands, your feet tied together and blindfolded, then I'd be impressed. Mind a donate a fiver to charity afterwards.

Respect to the man for doing what he did. At least he's doing something good with the profile he's raised of himself.

In reply to Al Evans:


I'd imagine most people who post on here know he's done it, he begins every post with "When I did the NF of the Eiger in......".


Exactly, he's a fund raiser and an exceptionaly good one so why do you then go on to say he's not as good a mountaineer as Mick Fowler etc? When someone does a sponsored walk do you just turn round and say "I have no respect for what you are doing as Paul Radcliff could do twice that distance in half the time?" Mick Fowler has never raised millions for charity it doesn't detract from his achievements. The bottom line is RF spent an attritional 5 days in an uncomfortable, alien environment for charity, whats wrong with that?

In reply to Big Yin:

There were a huge amount of inspirational attempts to climb this route with quite tragic consequences for many.

Are those the Nazi inspired and funded first ascent attempts? Wasn't the first ascent itself turned into a big publicity stunt to demonstrate the superiority of the ayrian race?

Everyone who climbs this route does so for purely selfish reasons so from that point of view RF's ascent was more worthy than most.


Whilst you just seem like a right tosser who doesn't.

In reply to francoisecall:


Whereas doing them pruely for personal ego is ok?


Isn't that what he's doing? His job is to raise money for charity which he does best by stunts like this rather than working 40 hrs a week in McDonalds.

In reply to Big Yin: I'm sure Ran has broad enough shoulders to ignore the bitching of utter no marks sniping from the cover of the eunuch cowardice of anonymity but it is a shame on this site and climbing in general that many interested patients and relatives will now see the pettiness and lack of humanity of some of these posts.

Ran Fiennes ran 7 marathons in 7 days only 4 months after suffering a heart attack, out of hospital cardiac arrest and coronary bypass surgery. With a background as a Cardiologist, climber and fell runner I regard the mental and physical aspects of this feat as his most impressive by a large margin, the Eigerwand is a mere diversion by comparison.

On top of the vast sums he has made for the BHF and MC he is a source of massive inspiration to patients with heart disease. If you think you can do better get out there and make a difference - if you can contribute a fraction of what this "tosser" has given your life will have been worthwhile

In reply to Tyler:
His job is to raise money for charity which he does best by stunts like this rather than working 40 hrs a week in McDonalds.

Oh I'd just love it RF working in McDonalds, and thats the point isnt it, he is by profession an incredibly well paid charity worker, others do it for nothing other than that they care. What he does sucks.

In reply to Al Evans:

and you're a shinning pillar who inspires?

Ian, Kenton, Ranulf, good job!!! good on your lads. the footage from the helicopter looked amazing, i have a great deal of respect for anyone who's climbed that wall

In reply to Paul Atkinson:Many people quietly get on with their lives without seeking the glorification of the public/media.
I have spent 20 years so far in mountain rescue but dont need to publicise that.
I am entitled to my opinion and your silly remarks only show you be a bigger tosser that Randulph.

In reply to Paul Atkinson: Nobodies saying his raising money for charity is wrong but the guy was educated at eton. its not like he needs to get a proper job, and so he can devote all his time to charity and more often self publicity and stupididty. Attempting the eiger NF with no discernable skill is not only putting his life in danger and also obviously the two guides, but it will put the lives of the swiss moutain rescue in danger and possibly others on the face. this was a very dangerous and selfish thing to do. Luckily it turned out OK and now hopefully Marie curie will benifit.

In future his vast amounts of time would be best spent working on his singing for celeb fame academy or any other TV he could use to raise money. I also think that big yin has contributed to the life of others infinately more than fiennes.

In reply to nikolai:

No I can't, and thats to his credit, but thats all that is. I can despise him for making his living out of it when so many do it for nothing. And I can see the things he does as stupid self agrandisement and inflation of his own ego. He makes money out of doing things (adventures) we all like to do, things that fulfill his ego and that most of us would keep to ourselves, charity or not, and hides it all behind a facade of charity work. Nonsense.

In reply to Big Yin:


Until now.

In reply to Al. I have played a very small part in Ran's Eiger Challenge and the man I have grown to know and respect is nothing like the figure Al alludes to. The publicity, which Ran is very good at, has all been to raise money for Marie Curie's new terminal care projects in Leeds, Lincoln and the North East. The financial support came from Yorkshireman Paul Sykes who funded Kenton and Ian and the helicopters and various other bits of the logistics...the result of which is that, over the last few days, Ran has raised over £1.5 million for Marie Curie. His attempt on Everest last year raised more than £2.5 million for the British Heart Foundation - who opened a new childrens unit in London a few weeks back. Ran is very unassuming and self-deprecating. He was the first to acknowledge he would not have got out of the hotel in grindlewald without Kenton and Ian, let alone climbed the Eiger. The fact is, he isnt a climber, hates heights, yet he put himself through this for a very good cause. Christ, we have so few good role models to look up to these days, and so little good news, it makes me cringe to hear Al bleating on about how he could do it - well, here is my challenge..Al, do the North Face of the Eiger with Kenton and Ian and beat the amount of money Ran raises for a good cause.

In reply to john yates: John I couldn't, but thats mostly because I am not a self publicist' RF is good at putting himself through pointless exercises, its his career, as is his image, he needs you to like him. Look beneath the man, see what he is.
If he just did one impressive thing without telling the world about it I would think a lot more of the man.
I'm not bleating, the money for charity is a good thing of course, but your take on Ran being unasuming is nonsense, its clearly an image he needs to portray to carry on making money out of charity by doing pointless things that we would all 'enjoy' doing, being the perverse people that we are as climbers, but Ran being 'unasuming', really.

In reply to Tyler:
"Are those the Nazi inspired and funded first ascent attempts? Wasn't the first ascent itself turned into a big publicity stunt to demonstrate the superiority of the ayrian race? "

total tosh

"Everyone who climbs [this route][or any route] does so for purely selfish reasons "
agreed.

this thread seems full of the same antichristian vehemence that poisons rocktalk from time to time and - I can't say it adds anything to the perception generated by those who have fallen victim to the temptation to make such comments

In reply to Anonymous:

Maybe a bit of a simplification... but it's not tosh at all, I'm afraid.

In reply to Big Yin:

You really expect anybody to believe any of this nonsense?! Hilarious, every coward will lie their weay out of trouble. I suppose you have to protect your anonymity because you're in the SAS and MI5... and that. I have never met anyone who works in an MRT who is too chickenshit to put their own name to their opinions. You libel a respected public figure (national hero?), name-call like a child at me and then claim some dubious respectability by fabricating a tale likely to appeal to climbers!

I find your views on Ran offensive but many may agree with you - are you scared your friends, family, clients know what you think? Are you a 12 year old girl in Wisconsin trolling a UK website? Who knows?

Put up or shut up - if you are what you claim to be then have the cojones to come forward until such a time the natural presumption is that you are not only a coward but also a liar

yrs etc P

In reply to Paul Atkinson: i believe it, why shouldn't i. Also theres no reason why he should post his name not many people do on these forums. Offensive is you calling someone a liar with no real proof other than that fact your angry because hes made your point about him being a lesser person than mr fiennes look quite stupid.

In reply to Al Evans:

Says the man who can't tell us the sun is shining without mentioning he knows Michael Fish...

In reply to JoeL 90: nice try Mr Big Yin

In reply to JoeL 90:

What IS quite stupid is assuming the worst about Ranulph Fiennes without knowing him. The facts we have about him suggest he's concerned with charity, works hard to raise money for charity, likes adventures, isn't averse to a bit of publicity, is a paragon of willpower and fortitude, is an inspiration for many people around the world. The assumption being aired is that he's a tosser and that his adventures are just publicity schemes for his huge ego. Interestingly, the people who have posted here who know him don't seem to share this view, so I think I'll take their word for it over that of anyone making cynical, nasty assumptions based on zero evidence.

In reply to JoeL 90:

There's nothing wrong with anonymity if you're going to argue about grades, gear, whatever - but if you are going to make personal attacks against somebody, to hide behind anonymity IS cowardly

In reply to KeithW:


I dont know Michael Fish.

In reply to KeithW: And acxtusally I'm very reticent at saying just who I know, I only do it because
1/ When its relevant
2/ To shut up people being ridiculous about who they have met.

In reply to Steve Parker:
isn't averse to a bit of publicity,

Bit of an understatement there Steve.

In reply to Al Evans:

Why not see him as a positive model of a celebrity? There are so many around who do nothing worthy at all and yet make a lot of money and yet do not share it with anyone in need and yet are adulated.
At least he works hard at what he does.

In reply to Sandrine: just think when jade goody conquers everest, the bile in some peoples bellys, at least al with all his connections might be able to get on the trip as head teaboy

In reply to johnj:

Don't know much about her, not even what she looks like, but she is unlikely to get herself there, is she?

In reply to Sandrine: i'd be more than amazed is she did, go jade go!!!

In reply to johnj:

No, leave her somewhere on a beach in the Carribean or something.

In reply to Sandrine: i think she's in india at the moment, she's aiming that her actions will cause world peace, so i've heard

In reply to Steve Parker: "so I think I'll take their word for it over that of anyone making cynical, nasty assumptions based on zero evidence." ive not said hes a 'tosser' or that hes just on an ego trip.I think in his so called adventures he can be summed up as someone who is misguided (not by Kenton or Ian but in his attempt to do what is right)and is also selfish, especially in his regard for those around him on the Eiger Nordwand. If he wanted to do the Eiger NF wait till hes ready (im planning on doing this itll take a long time but who cares) and do it in style. If raising money for charity is his aim he should do one of those charity reality TV shows, id sponsor him if he promised not to do anything stupid again like publices himself as some really hardcore explorer.

The main aim of my posts was simply to spark some debate over the style of the ascent and over whether or not it was a good thing to do. It was good to see what Ian Parnell thought of the whole thing anyway

In reply to johnj: ill be happy if she does becasue the accepted style on Everest is so low that she will probably do it in good style compared to the current style. I have alot more respect for her than ranulph at least shes worked her way out of quite a poor background and seems to be learning all the time from mistakes.

In reply to Sandrine:

Think of a pig!

In reply to JoeL 90: Yep, she's certainly not an 'Eton Boy', I guess Ran can't help that, but he could try.

In reply to Paul Atkinson: i cant imagine Ranulph fiennes caring. his aim is no doubt to reach those who know little about alpnism and portray what hes done as extreme and 'ard rather than silly and with little respect for those around him.

In reply to Al Evans: Well he likes to think himself an adventurer now so far visiting the N and S pole isnt that adventurous considering Amundson did the S pole about 70yrs previous? But time travel...id sponsor him.

In reply to JoeL 90:

is the problem in your eyes with Ranulf, or with the style of his climb? or does it go deeper than that?

i just find it hard to understand, why Ranulfs climb upsets people 1938 is not the cutting edge Ueli Stecks recent climb shows what is

A magnificant route, i'd love the chance, to one day see how it goes, but to come out with some of the thoughts on here, when at the end of the day money has been raised, which wouldn't have, is a little twisted

if Ranulf didn't have the role he has someone else would, i've read of his exploits, and i've nothing but praise, so he tells the world and makes his living from what he does... we all have to make a living, thats life

In reply to JoeL 90:

I can hardly believe some of the stuff I'm reading here and it makes me extremely sad.

It seems some are obsessed by class, jealousy, authenticity, petty concerns about style, old grievances, competition and are driven by over-inflated egos.

This isn't about any of the above. Please read what Kenton, Ian and others have written, and reflect on it for a moment.

This man had raised millions for charity, for others....who gives a damn about any kudos he gets for this ascent as an 'extreme/ alpinist'. He's been open and honest about his fears and experience and seems to be under no illusion about his 'climbing prowess and authenticity' that some are carping on about.

Please give it a rest.

Mick

In reply to johnj: Im not sure really i only found out about him earlier this week, id never heard of him before. I totally disagree with the style and believe if you get the helicopter of a mountain then it is a rescue and therefore you have failed. I suppose i just cant underdtand why he gets publicity for being a rather poor climber and as an adventurer with no obvious talent. his acheivements only stand out as very few others have the time to do such things (they have to work get educated or what ever. If everyone had the opportunity to go to the S pole with all the equipment he had then it would be acheivable by hundreds of millions of people. Same with the Nordwand, if everyone had the time and could afford for two of the UKs best alpinists to guide them up the face again millions would do it. So i think its the publicity he gets for having no talent that is the problem there are plenty more people who do more heroic things to raise money for charity but dont get a mention.

Finally he doesn't need to make a living, the guys loaded.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Indeed a fantastic achievement, and for charity too. But if you think raising reservations about being airlifted off is a 'petty concern over style', sorry, I have to disagree. The media coverage of such activities can create very slanted yet influential images of our 'sport' - personally, I loathe News at 10 reporters filmng explorers arriving at the South Pole, drinking champagne, then being airlifted away - as though it's a big circus trick.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: I agree the money raised for charity is ace and have already said this. Also im not jealous it seems he was sh*t scared for most of the ascent whenever i climb im always happy. Im just always amazed by the how the media works in this country and how things get reported whilst also raising a question over the style of the ascent. Something you always put in your headlines, although not always completely accurately.

In reply to Deejay:
i would like to thank mr fiennes for his ability to make a career out of fundraising. my son (7)had twelve hours of major major lifesaving heart surgery 18 months ago at the yorkshire heart centre in leeds. this and other heart centers rely on fundraising and charitable donations for their existence. 3 months after his op (the last of 3)he was skiing black runs in Austria. 6 months after his op and six years old he was following multipitch routes like doorpost, alisons rib etc on bosigran (cc family meet).
he leads a near normal life now and so do i !! thanks to the efforts of the many fundraisers who do not seek publicity AND the efforts of the few that do seek it.

In reply to Marc C:

The way I look at it is that the mainstream media will always make climbing news more digestible for the general public and cannot paint the full picture due to lack of time, lack of understanding, the attention span of the reader and space constraints.

It is something we have to live with and it is pointless moaning about it.

Some do a better job than others of course.....Ed Douglas being one of the better journalists and writers who can explain climbing to the lay person.

In reply to JoeL 90:
long before the role of an adventurer, he started on the first steps on his path with active service back in the day with 22 sas, now if anyone with no obvious talent can get through that, it says a lot for the masses, maybe you are truely gifted, if so i'd recomend using your talents wisely and get off this negitive path of bringing folk down.
Paul Sykes (maybe you should google him)the guy who put a lot of cash and resource into this exped, came out of darkest yorkshire, with nothing, and did very well to the point to do what he did.

i do understand what you're saying though about the helicopter, and style, but mate, you've never accepted a free lift when it's on offer, you'd have to be some form of total legend to do that

In reply to Al Evans:

Al, you come across on here more and more as a very bitter person. The list of people you "hate" or "have no respect for" grows longer and longer. You seem to spend far too much time slagging off others (Blessed, Fiennes and several more) who don't fit your very narrow view of what constitutes an acceptable way to conduct a life.

Personally, I don't think the fact that someone does something for charity necessarily "excuses" what they do or how they do it (see some of my previous comments on 3 Peakers) but this constant slagging off of named individuals *just because* they're successful at something *you* don't like the idea of is getting boring.

How do you *know* how "well paid" Fiennes is? Sure, he earns from his books, but they hardly sell in the millions. He probably also earns a fair bit from motivational speaking, but then so do Stephen Venables, Al Hinkes, Jamie Andrew and the like. As far as I know he doesn't live a Beckham or McCartney lifestyle, and his arctic adventures are no more pointless than, say, being the first person to climb up a crack in a Lancashire quarry. And probably required a lot more willpower and determination over a much longer period.

As with others who've incurred your wrath, you're now making unspecified comments that "people you know to be well informed dispute some of his claims". Care to put some actual flesh on those bones rather than making vague innuendoes? Which of his trips do you dispute the facts of and on what grounds?

Personally, I do think that the "Everst circus" has devalued mountaineering, and possibly feel a bit concerned that the "circus" aspects now seem to be shifting to other mountains, but I can still see Fiennes as someone with grit, determination and the "get up and go" to live his life to the full, even if I don't agree with everything he does.

If you're going to argue against using the Eiger as a "charity stunt", why not do it with reasoned argument rather than spitting personal bile about individuals who you may have *met* but don't actually *know* in any real sense?

In reply to Al Evans: Dear Al, you seem a wee bit touchy about this age subject. I was refering to his overall achievments as an explorer and endurance athlete, rather than his climbing achievments. I hope this clears things up Grandad

In reply to johnj: I believe the pick up was planned. Ive also never climbed a route, taken a helicopter off the top before claiming an ascent to the worlds media. i also cant say ive ever taken a lift and then said to inrested pedestrians that i infact walked. All im saying is it isn't an ascent if you cant get down using your own ability.

He was also educated at eton so obviously was rich and so joined the SAS cos he thought it would be fun rather than becasue he couldn't find a job. But whether or not he was in the sas, it doesn't influence that fact that as a climber and explorer he has no obvious talent.

im only using my 'talent' to discuss the style of an ascent and the workings of the british media.

In reply to Al Evans:

Perhaps John *did* see beneath the image...you just seem to have made a decision on what the man "must" be like and will stick to that prejudice come thick or thin.


Some of the stuff he did in Oman in the army is quite impressive, and a lot of it hasn't been told to anyone much outside Oman.

And with respect to "not telling the world about it" I don't see that a certain individual has been particularly shy and retiring about "pointless" first ascents of bits of rock, judging by the frequency that the name crops up in guidebooks

INDEQUACY on their part Mick, rather than over inflated egos!!!

In reply to Deejay: mick - i'm referring to the critics - sorry about any ambiguity!

In reply to JoeL 90: i think we'll have to disagree with you're definition of no obvious talent

In reply to JoeL 90:

What an absolute load of uninformed bollocks. Have you ever tried to pull a 485lb sledge for 10 minutes, never mind 100 days? And the bloke "got educated" in the normal way then spent a fair career in the army before embarking on a second (equally succesful)career, as far as I know. The polar adventuring was his 3rd "career"

Was he "loaded" before he went into the army? Before he works for Armand Hammer? Is he actually "loaded" in the Beckham/ Ronney sense now? Being from an aristocratic background doesn't necessarily imply money. I know a viscount who spent most of his youth living in a squat without 2 pennies to rub together. As far as I know he lives on a fairly modest farm in the west country, not a stately home or anything.

Sounds as if your criticisms are based more on some outmoded type of "class envy" rather than any real knowledge of what the guy is or what he's done.

In reply to JoeL 90: also by your definition. if you climbed say the frendo spur, and got the cable down, thats not an ascent either

In reply to johnj: Fair enough, i know where your coming from, he definately is a very talented at self-publicity and also at raising money for charity. But compared to Lance Armstrong or Alexandre Vinokourov hes no where in terms of physical talent nor does he get close to Amundsun or Neil Armstring in the world of exploring.

In reply to JoeL 90:

Interestingly enough, when this kind of rescue is available to everyone (more or less), it's amazing how many supposedly ethical Alpine climbers choose to take it. I've seen loads of the damn cheats being rescued from the top of the Frendo Spur or the end of the Midi-Plan Traverse by the brave employees of the telepherique company. Failures, all of them, though to hear them trumpeting about their ascents afterwards in the bars around Cham, you'd think they'd actually achieved something!

In reply to johnj: True! ill make a promise to you that should i climb it some day i wont come down the cable car and then claim an ascent to the media of the world. Id actually try and descend Cosmique arete, i think that would make a good day out.

In reply to JoeL 90:

Dude....why all this comparison....he is what he is......tell you what, go do the Eiger.......walk to the north and south poles and report back to us.

You may also like to do it for charity rather than just for yourself!

In reply to JoeL 90:


I'm sorry but this is utter rubbish. Further apology for quoting my own post but I'm not the greatest typist:

"Ran Fiennes ran 7 marathons in 7 days only 4 months after suffering a heart attack, out of hospital cardiac arrest and coronary bypass surgery. With a background as a Cardiologist, climber and fell runner I regard the mental and physical aspects of this feat as his most impressive by a large margin, the Eigerwand is a mere diversion by comparison."

If you had any idea what this entailed you would realise that in terms of sheer hardness, drive, courage and self-control this guy is in fact right up there with your Fowlers, Taskers, Boukreevs, etc etc

peace P

In reply to JoeL 90: yes you're right he's not a world class athlete, he's a 63 year old man, who's just been guided up the north face of the eiger to raise well over a million pound for the fight against cancer, in my eyes he is(and the team with him) are total stars

In reply to JoeL 90:

My son was educaed at Tonbridge, which has fees nearly as high as Eton's, but we're not rich...or even well off. I ran my last car for 12 years. My current one is 6 years old and I plan to run it for at least 4-5 more years. We've been waiting for a new stair carpet for 14 years!

I'd say 1/3 of the parents in my son's year were "rich", 1/3 were "comfortably off" and 1/3 made real sacrifices/ relied on scholarships to fund their kids' educations, so less of the "obviously rich" please. His family may or may not have been...I don't know. But if they were, presumably he could have chosen to spend his life as a "playboy" and didn't.

And no-one "joins the SAS because it's fun"...they have the little hurdle of something called Selection first, then Continuation Training to pass. I think that fewer than 10% pass Selection, so he can't have been quite the idle rich dilettante you're painting a picture of.

In reply to johnj:

Oops, missed yours!

In reply to Steve Parker: yes a poor effort, we had to spend the night in the womens toilet

In reply to JoeL 90:

Joe

He's been perfectly up front about his ascent......he climbed the 1938 route with two very excellent alpinists. They descended by helicopter. No lies, no dishonesty. It is what it is.

Apart from that, according to his own accounts, he shat himself, was scared beyond belief. You been there yet, if you have, you might have some comprehension of what a great achievement this is for a 62 year old triple by-pass, few fingers, virtually none climber.

Alpine climbing is the real McCoy, however you do it.....at whatever level you climb.

M

In reply to Rob Naylor: Im sure you need to pay large amounts of money to go to eaton i may be wrong ive never been but youd think with an education like that hed easily find a well paying job if he needed one. if you do need alot of money to go to eaton then it would mean he came from a rich background rather than just aristocratic. From this uninformed bollocks i conclude that yes he was rich before the army although im unsure.

Also my 'inadequate' knowledge has let me down, i assume you aren't referring to a minty biscuit, could you please enlighten me on what exactly a viscount is.
Beckham and Rooney are two of the most talented footballers on the planet and get as much as they do becasue such talent is very rare. Compared to them Ranulph probably isn't loaded but he is pleasantly well-off at the least.

In reply to johnj:

Don't get me wrong, I was being ironic. I don't think there's anything wrong with using the phrique, or getting a helicopter off the Eiger either, as long as you don't pretend otherwise. If we declare anyone who does so to be a cheat or a failure, we get into some serious ethical problems. What if you lower off a crag, or abseil down a big wall? Is that cheating because you didn't walk/climb down? Fiennes would have failed if he'd stated that his mission was to climb up and down the Eiger. He didn't, and he achieved exactly what he set out to achieve.

In reply to Ran bashers

I can't believe I have been reading such a vindictive load of bollocks from apparantly mature and sensible people. Climbing the north face of the Eiger with or without guides is one hell of an acheivement for most people, but for it to be completed by a 63 year old man who only a few years ago had a near fatal heart attack requiring a double by-pass, and who happens to be a non-climber who is scared of heights, is an admirable achievement by any standards. Furthermore he has used his fame as a platform by which to raise funds for a well deserved cause in doing the climb. What the hell is wrong with that?

He is an individual who has probably achieved more in the way of endurance expeditions and adventuring than any living person. From being in the thick of highly dangerous military operations in Oman to walking across Antarctica to running in Marathons in all 7 Continents AFTER his heart surgery, just to mention a few of his exploits singles him out as a remarkable man. In the last year or two he has been touched by more than one deeply personal tragedy, yet he hasn't given up and retreated into self pity, quite the opposite. For goodness sake whether you approve of his social background, or his publicity seeking, you have got to hand it to him - he is an incredibly tough individual who deserves more than the petty sniping which has been shown on this forum.

In reply to Tyler: If he put the energy he does in his adventures in a business, he could donate money.

In reply to Rob Naylor:

My understanding is that the Twisleton-Wickham-Fiennes family - or close relatives thereof - continue to hold on to Broughton Castle in North Oxfordshire, though they do have to open it up to plebs from time to time. However, as you say, that doesn't necessarily imply that Ran T-W-F is especially wealthy himself. And it isn't relevant to whether or not we should admire his ascent of the Eiger.

Personally, though, I am sympathetic to the views that Al, Francois and others have expressed. I don't really see how this guided ascent - two guides! - of a media-friendly mountain differs from the endless Everest circuses? They all devalue authentic achievement. And as to charity fund-raising, I am totally jaded by people who seek sponsorship for doing something they desire to do anyway.

In reply to Al Evans: I think your real issue with this Al is that you are jealous of what he did. The man did something you would so like to do and he did it in what to your mind was a lame style, and that's touched a nerve with you. Personally I reckon the media event was a load of bullshit with no relevence to me as a serious climber but unfortunately it's nothing new. I'll worry about next months rent and when it's going to get sunny, not what's going on in a circus I have zero interest in.
Everyone likes to be noticed whether it's by the world or just some people staring at a screen. Tell me part of you doesn't secretly enjoy all the attention you're getting on here?
It's all a bit gay this but I'm stuck somewhere with time to kill.

In reply to Rob Naylor: Why didn't you send him to a comprehensive then, there very good especially now with a Labour gov. I go to one. Im no great advert for them but at least in them people are equal. Dont moan about your hardships there are plenty of people who cant afford to frivolously throw about 9000 pounds a year so their son can be educated among a bunch of elitist rich people. Why did you make the sacrifice, its not doing the world any good it will simply mean if others follow you that the rich will be well educated and the poor remain poor. Hopefully some more articulate person will also disagree with these pathetic private schools and argue against them too.

Luckily it doesn't seem this will continue as people at non fee schools simply have a desire to learn and hopefully some day these unfair establishments will be all gone so each child has an equal chance to get educated.

In reply to tobyfk:

As I said above, I have no idea of the circumtasnces of *his* branch of the family.

And as I also said, I have reservations about the "Everest circus" being extended to other mountains.

But that's not what I'm deploring. I'm deploring the personal bile and vindictiveness pouring out of some people above, largely, seemingly, based on "class", and the uninformed bollocks that implies that "hundreds of millions" of people would be capable of man-hauling a 485lb sled across the Antartctic for 100 days "if only they had the time".

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:


It would be an equivalent achievement to Sir Ran T-W-F doing an unguided ascent of a <insert name of more modest alpine route> with another sexagenarian pal. Except it wouldn't be newsworthy, and upright fellows like Kenton and Ian wouldn't have got paid ... and, gosh, the horror: perhaps the guiding industry's available funds for advertising on UKC might be fractionally lower?

In reply to francoisecall:
If he put the energy he does in his adventures in a business, he could donate money.

Or it could go bust........Get off his back.

Fantastic achievement....Charities need and rely on remarkable men, women and kids like Ranulf Fiennes.

In reply to Trangia: He doesn't come close to pro cyclists in terms of endurance. Considering theres about 1500 of them id say on the list of endurance feats if there is such a thing hed be at best 1501st

In reply to JoeL 90:

Oh FFS grow up!

In reply to JoeL 90: I think the only way to solve this issue in the UK is to ban private schools. But Labour did not have the guts to that especially as they send their children there! As long as there will be private and state school, there will be a strong social divide.

In reply to Rob Naylor:

So is the N face of the Eiger the next Everest, or The Walker Spur, lots of big money and real climbers being priced out? Its a terrible precedent.

In reply to Trangia:i forgot professional runners many top alpinits people who sail yahts arout the world. my figures are well out. Please accept my apologies i must stop my childish byass to the pro cyclists.

In reply to shaggyleo: I would be interested to see a breakdown of sources of funds for charities. Knowinf a bit about the legislation regarding charities I am also very suspicious of the real motives of some people starting charities or organising fund raising events. Did you know that you can pay yourself a fee or salary, and get all your costs? Doe the public know exactly how much of the funds raised actually reach the charities?

Having worked with Ran quite closely over the last five months, I think I can safely say he is not a self-publicist. The publicity he seeks, is for the charities he serves. As Ian and Kenton have said, he is a man with deep reserves of fortitude and truly inspirational. In the various fund raisers I have attended, Ran has been self-deprecating and has given Kenton and Ian and the other members of the Marie Curie Cancer Care team the main billing. The attitude of (some) climbers on this post is really rather sad - Mick Ryan seems to have it in perspective - and is in marked contrast to those who were at the Leeds wall a few weeks back, raising money in support of Ran, Kenton, and Ian's Eiger Challenge. This guy is a tough cookie, but he doesnt brag about it. Quite the opposite. I think Kenton and Ian should offer to guide Al up the North Face and see how much brass he can raise.

In reply to francoisecall: yes this is why my support for them has dissapeared in recent years despite their intail good will towards state schools. Youre right this is the solution but none of the three political parties seem to have it in their manifestos. Youd think they would as surely most people would support it and it would be an obvious relief of social tension.

In reply to JoeL 90:

Who said I personally made a sacrifice? My lad won an Advanced Scholarship at 10, and the Ainslie Scholarship at 12, in a competitive examination with several hundred entrants from around the country. So he got a full scholarship (ie, was fully funded). The age of my car and stair carpet were illustrations that we're not *remotely* well off, not that I made additional sacrifices.

And as I said, although some were undoubtedly rich, many were not. And why *shouldn't* parents "frivolously" choose to use their after-tax income on an improved education for their kids rather than on "frivolous" foreign holidays, binge-drinking or new cars? I wonder how many of the kids at your comp are being privately tutored on the quiet? Even though Tony Blair manipulated the system to send his kids to a "good" state school miles from where they lived, he still felt it necessary to hire private tutors to bring them up to speed. Having experienced both systems, there's no comparison in the level of education. At 13-14 most kids in my son's year would have been quite capable of getting A grades in AS levels. Many took several GCSEs 2 years early and still got A*s.

And if you think people at comprehensives are "equal" think again: there can be a huge difference in the quality of schools according to location/ catchment area etc...then it's just a "postcode lottery": can your parents afford to buy a house near a "good" comprehensive rather than renting a flat next to a run-down school dominated by gangs?

Get real.

In reply to Al Evans: Al let's organise a jolly "for charity". we are boith getting on with age, so clearly disavantaged, and I am a woman, so I am a weakling. What a HUGE effort for us! I think in 4 days we should manage. Everybody should praise us and give us lots of money. Then we can pay for some equipment and 2 guides each, the helicopters for some great photos, and boast in the pub! Maybe we could even get an entry in Guinness book of records for the oldest climbers on the Walker! Ans at the top let's have a UKC picnic.

In reply to JoeL 90:

How many pro cyclists lose 5 stone in a race? Get real.

In reply to john yates:
Oh come on John its like he invented it. How can you say and really believe that.

In reply to Deejay: did the two guides wave their donate their fee to charity aswell

In reply to francoisecall:
Would anybody really want to sponsor you 2 to do anything?

In reply to Al Evans:

You should read some Bonington stuff about fund-raising for mountaineering trips. He did all the same stuff as Fiennes back in the day. That's how you raise funds, whether you like it or not. I don't hear anyone calling Bonington a tosser, not even for that Outside broadcast circus on the Old Man. Some double standards going on around here.

In reply to francoisecall: Love it, And Francoise, how many people know how much money we raised on that charity climb we did together at Westway? I remember sending the details to the Independant (not). But they never published it well they wouldn't with not knowing about it.
I guess we could qualify for the oldest mixed team to do the Walker.

In reply to JoeL 90:

My "uninformed bollocks" comment was mainly in rference to your quite breathtaking ignorance of what it takes in terms of physical conditioning, willpoer, determination and guts to haul a 400lb + sled for 100 days in sub-zero temperatures. I doubt Lance Armstrong, Beckham or Rooney could come near to doing it, though Armstrong might have a better chance than Rooney or Beckham, if he could carry enough drugs . Ypou implied that hundreds of millions could do it, if they only "had the time". Sheer crap.


Google it.


And Fiennes' talent for operating for months at a time in arctic conditions is probably equally rare, though you sem to think that anyone with a few months to spare could do it. In a long-term test of endurance and stamina in adverse, I'd back Fiennes, even at 63, over Beckham and Rooney any day.

In reply to Al Evans:

I can agree with that sentiment, but you weren't making reasoned arguments above, Al, you were spouting vindictive personal bile belittling the man himself, not the activity. And shame on you for it.

In reply to Rob Naylor:

Included in the 'endurance' bit should be some recognition of the unimaginable mental trial involved in long-distance polar manhauling. Mike Stroud was seriously contemplating shooting Fiennes at one point in the Arctic (they had a pistol in case of polar bear attacks) because Fiennes was so unrelenting and driven. The focus and drive required to keep going sound way beyond what most people are capable of.

In reply to francoisecall:

And what happens when you ban them? you'll have the people with money paying for private tutors "on the side" for their kids who are at state school, and you'll still have the division of "good" state schools vs "bad" ones, with people moving house (or pulling political strings) to get their kids onto "good" ones.

In reply to Al Evans: But climbing is your game. For anything like a fair comparison how about you and Francoise haul a 400+lb sledge each to whichever pole you prefer, any guide, heli home, whatever - I'll personally pledge a grand to the charity of your choice

In reply to Al Evans: I have better things to do than to read through all of the misinformed bile on this thread, but for what it's worth everyone I have met who has met Fiennes (at least three people) said that he is a thoroughly self deprecating and entertaining bloke.

And Francoise, if you and Al make an unaccompanied ascent of the Walker Spur I will personally donate £5000 to the charity of your choice.

In reply to Steve Parker:

Agreed. I know I wouldn't be capable of it. I'd probably pack up in the first day or two, assuming I cold ever get the sled to move in the first place. To even contemplate doing it for 100 days would just freak me out.

One of my friends crossed Greenland unsupported and man-hauling for 42 days. I know very few people who could even have done the training he endured for that, never mind the actual haul itself.

In reply to Al Evans: Bizzare really all of this, you worked in the very media who live off this stuff....This Morning wasn't it?

good luck to him, he's hardly setting precedents in media hype and sponsorship is he..?

I am sure those that will benefit from the extra dough wont care about it, I guess in all of his endeavorers he's had to face his own demons at some point so only he will know what he's been through.

who pissed on your chips today :p

In reply to John2: Now there is a challenge Francoise
John, what have I said that is'misinformed ' please?
And you have met 4 people who have met Fiennes, unless you were already including me.
Like I said he has an image to maintain with people that just doesn't square with his media role.

In reply to John2:
I got that impression watching the news slots on ITV. When he was asked 'How was that?', after a traverse, he immediately said, 'Hair-raising, not my cup of tea at all', no bollox, no posturing, but also very calm. Also said if he'd known how much of a challenge it was going to be, he'd never have agreed to do it in the first place. Hardly the words of an ego-freak and inveterate self-publicist. Always seemed pretty cheerful, though, at least on camera.

In reply to Rob Naylor: Armstong could do it fifteen times before fiennes did it onces. Rooney and Beckham are also infinately fitter than fiennes. Your as bad as me for posting 'uninformed bollocks', i dont like armstrong his riding style is very dull Vinos far more exciting to watch but its never been proven hes taken drugs.

i believe if you get enough clothes its possible to survive in the actic providing youve got all the other equipment.

i cant be bothered googling it, but i presume its some ceromonial thing you get when youre rich enough and it can then be passed on from one toff to another. its probably this lack of research that leads to my posting of 'uninformed bollocks' but its more fun this way.

Well sone to your son i hope his ability to get these grades makes him a better person or whatever you want from him. He will no doubt benifit from this appaulingly unfair system while many others will suffer.

In reply to Removed User:

And World in Action, and lots of the quality docs we used to do, I dont want to be thought of as a This Morning person. I worked in war zones all round the world, and its some of my contacts from those that gave way to my initial misgivings about Ran.

In reply to Al Evans:
>I worked in war zones all round the world, and its some of my contacts from those that gave way to my initial misgivings about Ran.


a bunch of hacks bitching

In reply to Steve Parker: ahh youve got me, the internationally recognised decider of how 'ard your endurance feat is. quite clearly this eclipses riding 160km at least for about 300 days a year for your entire career. Although if you follow cycling i think big jan probably did lose 5 stone in a single race.

I know someone who once gained 5 stone in one sitting for charity now that is something. believe me! maybe ranulph could do this next on top of cerro torre now hed get my respect.

In reply to JoeL 90: crap that was pounds but if ranulph could gain 5 stone in a single sitting that would be quite something after conquering the climbing and exploration worlds competition eating is clearly the next step.

In reply to johnj: Not hacks, SAS and Marines.

In reply to Al Evans: much as the same thing then, its part of the game slag off the duty Rupert, and this is what you then have, a load of bullshit

In reply to johnj: But have you considered they may have something?

In reply to Al Evans: I wasn't including you in the three people, Al.

As for misinformation, you said above 'Jimmy Saville was the same, an obnoxious man who thought he was wonderful because he raised money for charity'. I do not believe Fiennes to be an obnoxious man. But you are far from the only person who has said things that cannot be supported on the thread.

I think that the majority of climbers are pretty selfish people. I have no idea whether Fiennes is deriving any income himself from this endeavour, but even if he is I am confident that it is dwarfed by the amount of money that has raised for charity. I think that an ascent such as this which raises a really substantial amount of money for charity is a more praiseworthy achievement than that of the Alpinist on holida who climbs the route unsupported.

Press interest in the North Face of the Eiger is no new phenomenon - all the accounts that I have read of the early ascents talk o telephoto lenses being trained on the face and of the stories of the ascensionists being syndicated around the world's newspapers (the income going to the participants rather than to charity).

In reply to Al Evans: yes someone got someones back up therefore someone told someone something about somebody, 10 years later, someone is feeling not on top of the world whilst somebody has just done a pretty amazing thing(for his age/condition), and makes up a whole plan that its disgusting. Have you read ranulfs book the feather men, thats a whole better book than this petty sniping with no substance.

from seeing bits on the tv, i thought it was pretty inspiring, maybe you should give it a crack, i'd donate to your cause

In reply to John2: Sensible post John, as I would expect of you, but seriously, I wish Fiennes had never got near a proper mountain.

In reply to Norrie Muir:

Yes, found it very good. An interesting and sustained route, but not all "thwack and pull".

In reply to johnj: If it interests you, 'feather men' was discredited by people who were there. Good story though. But more of a fiction based on events that happened.

In reply to petejh: Which seems to be in line with the ethos of the man.

In reply to Al Evans:

lol

al ur funny, or drunk again. He's been guided up the North Face of the Eiger. So what if its only guided. Its for charity.

Hows about you do a sponsored drink-a-thon. You're good at that.

Centurion05

In reply to petejh: hello Peter fancy see you here...that was why i mentioned it quite possibly a complete work of fiction, hows Canada?, it's john s from that job in oman the other year

In reply to john yates:

I think Kenton and Ian should offer to guide Al up the North Face and see how much brass he can raise.

he'd raise f*ck all cos no one knows him and no ones interested about what he used to do.

In reply to centurion05:
I think you are being a bit nasty.....but then again I think somebody deserves it.

In reply to johnj: Eh up fella. Canada's great, thanks. I'm sitting on a heli rescue stanby in northern b.c. as i write. That's why i've got the time to kill reading these crazy people on smacktalk. How you doing?

In reply to centurion05: I dont drink, are you really so shallow that you dont see the danger in what is going on. This is not a sponored walk up Mont Blanc, this is a 'stunt' on the NFOTE, a proper route, its the thin end of a wedge that climbers should rebel against,
One day you will grow up and become a real person. Maybe you already are and its just the venomous shit that you post that confuses us. My attacks on RF are based on sincere opinions based on facts, youre's are just, well what the eff are they?

In reply to centurion05:

I disagree with Al about this as much as anyone, but you're way out of order.

In reply to centurion05:

Plus you're talking nonsense. Lots of people here, including me, are interested in Al's climbing career. Leave out the abuse, and grow up.

In reply to Al Evans:


Right Al.....cut the crap. Explain how this charity climb is a 'danger' and why climbers should 'rebel' against it?

Explain in full, explain how this is bad, explain what harm it will do, and to who?

Post up or shut up!

Mick

In reply to petejh:

i'm all right cheers, still in sunny Yorkshire, working a bit too much chained to my pc but it's all good, don't think it's quite the same as being where you are. Yeah they like slagging things off, i don't think they can help it.

Have a good one over there mate

In reply to johnj: Life would be boring without the slagging.

In reply to francoisecall: do you really think so??

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Because for a lot of people climbing is like a spiritual search. It feels violated by this kind of circus.

What about a praying marathon for fund raising?

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

You don't get it, do you, Mick? There used to be such a sport as skydiving, until all those weekend charity parachutists got started. It's just not the same any more. You go out for a sky dive, and everyone's granny is jumping out of a plane with her bloody poodle. Might look like a harmless charity climb to you, pal, but pretty soon there'll be a cafe on top of the Eiger and non-climbers will be running up it in mini-skirts.

In reply to johnj: If nothings ever criticised nother ever changes.

In reply to francoisecall:
And for a lot of people it's nothing of the kind. It's whatever every individual climber considers it to be. And this event doesn't threaten it in the slightest, because it's nothing like as weak or in danger as a participant who wants to cling to some idyllic vision of climbing as purity.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Although Als argument against it is a good one and will probaly happen for a little while i think that as soon as one of these rich adventure seekers dies on one of the routes this craze will be over and once again only those with the necaccsery skill will climb on them. However, hopefully they can be put off before someone gets hurt.

In reply to francoisecall:
Rubbish.........climbing is fun,a hobby, a day out with your mate, lots of things, but spiritual? You really are having a laugh and as for "violated by this kind of circus", you and Al are in your own little world on this one

In reply to francoisecall:

But some seem to use their fingers on the keyboard to search for this so-called spirituality!


Bollox. You get out on the hill and it easy to forget 'charity climbs' like this that attract media attention.

I'm waiting Al......post up. Explain how Sir Ranulph Fiennes' climb is going to affect anyone in a negative manner?

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Ok Mick, seperate to my antipathy to RF and his self publicity, sorry not antipathy, repugnance.
The Chamonix and Courmayeur guides or whatever and local council, have every right legally to insist on the conditions to be applied to an attempt on the Eiger North Face. This 'stunt' just shows up the possibilities, I am seriously concerned that they may decide to allow only money making guided ascents, after all if such a high profile ascent proves that 'anybody' can do it, why not.
It has happened to Everest, why should it not happen to the Eiger?
Secondly, how many other smaller profile people will go for fund raising via The NF of the Eiger? Ok. Mr publicity got in there first, but will lives be lost after the precedent?
I'm sorry Mick, and Ian and Kenton (great effort by the way) but it was an ill thought out event. Thank god it all ended without tears, and earned lots for charity, but I think climbing should put RF to one side with a breath of relief.

In reply to JoeL 90:

He hasn't got an argument yet and nor have you.

In reply to Steve Parker:

I just explained my personal sense of discomfort with charity climbs, in addition to some very real concern about the financial ethics. I don't expect everybody to hold the same view.

Am off to bed because tomorrow I am climbing or if weather is too crap am taking some fresh air in the storm.

Evening all!
I have just read the majority of this thread, my word there are some barking comments on here!

Fair play to Sir Ralph, bricking himself but managing to climb a classic for charity.

Who gives a monkey's if he sells himself? he has done a damn site more stuff than most people will ever do in their lives.

What about all these climbers who advertise their dvd's, books, have their own websites, do talks, appear on the telly doing shows, sponsors all over their kit, what are they doing? surely marketing themselves or is that different, and if so, why?

Anyway, good on him, maybe people should get off their arses and go do it themselves. I mean, all this gobbing off, I'm sure it would be an easy climb for some of our posters what with all their experience. But imagine not being able to do it, getting beat by a near OAP? what a terrible thing that would be!

My 2 penneth
Den

In reply to shaggyleo:

And yes, tomorrow I will be having a spiritual trip, but it's my trip and I don't expect you to understand it.

In reply to shaggyleo:
Haven't you just answered for us?

In reply to Al Evans:

I'll attempt to translate.

What you are saying is, that because of this charity ascent of the Eiger now all who attempt to climb the Eiger will have to pay to do that?


There are many peaks where you have to pay a peak fee. Permits fees are well established in India, Tibet, Nepal et al, from trekking peaks to the 8000m Himalayan giants. Nothing to do with charity ascents Al.....more to do with supply and demand.

Try again.....you can do better.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Hey you didn't give me chance, see above. And thats just one of many directions I could have taken.

In reply to outdoorbloke: Id love to do the eiger NF but my funds fall a long way short of the asking price of Kenton and Ians services for 4 days and that of a helicopter lift off the top. in the meantime ill have to be content with going to the wall once a week outside twice two bike rides and 2 runs which gives me alot more pleasure than doing something im not ready to do.

In reply to Al Evans:
If you are going to quote me Al, then qoute it all.
You missed "lots of things"

In reply to Al Evans:

people do different things for charity, do you honestly think the people who run a marathon for charity do it every day? If three people died on the great north run two years back, people can die running a marathon.

Different idea with the climb but possibly the same fatal outcome?

centurion05

In reply to Deejay:

if you get one thing out of this little pointless discussion it'll be a position in the top 40 posters this week.

centurion05

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Supply and demand? surely a chance to make money from a load of rich forigners coming over to get dragged up their mountains. Apologies to any climbing alpine style and still paying the fees this is aimed at those on guided trips with armies of porters etc. Supply doesn't really come into it.

In reply to Al Evans: "The Chamonix and Courmayeur guides or whatever and local council, have every right legally to insist on the conditions to be applied to an attempt on the Eiger North Face."

Have they moved the Eiger or am I missing something here?

And don't know about Courmayeur, but I'm pretty sure in France you can do what you like. Don't know about Switzerland though (which is where Grindelwald was last time I looked...)

In reply to JoeL 90:

I can see where people are coming from, always look at both sides of the argument :0)

I think this feat, regardless of guides, helicopter etc is amazing and making money for charity to boot.

Managing to climb the Eiger at that age is pretty amazing stuff, thats my main point I think (sorry in hospital on drugs, which may affect my answers!)

Den

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: .I will do better, sad that I need to, but its after 10 here, my bedtime, I'll talk to you in the morning, and you will not convince me it was a good idea, just like I will not convince you it was a bad one. I'm sorry, there are quite a substantial number of us on here, a large minority, who are appalled by what RF does.
I think therefore its worth asking the questions, non?

In reply to shaggyleo:

You're doing the same absolutism as who you're attacking. Climbing is whatever any climber finds it to be. It's spiritual or utterly trivial, or anything else, depending on the climber. Who is anyone to tell another climber what climbing is or should be?

In reply to francoisecall:

Climbing is quite a spiritual trip for me, actually. My objection above was to the idea that it should be the same for everyone else.

In reply to outdoorbloke: Yep its certainly is amazing...

In reply to Steve Parker:
Sorry,I was trying to get across that climbers climb for lots of reasons.I just know nobody that says climbing is a spiritual search.
Was I really attacking francoisecall?

In reply to Al Evans:

Sure did. You said people will have to pay to climb the Eiger because of charity ascents and you cited the fact that you have to pay a permit to climb Himalayan peaks, the reasons for which are far removed from charity ascents and are more to do with developing countries capitalising on their natural resources which have a high demand from individuals in Western countries to have personal fun on.


We are waiting.

Step up to the plate Al or STFU.

In reply to shaggyleo:

Must be one of the most repeated ideas about climbing, surely? Loads of people, usually people who aren't conventionally religious.


Sorry if I mistook you there. Wasn't having a go.

In reply to Al Evans:


Trouble is Al, when questions are asked you come up with nothing, nada, zip.

All I see here is a load of bitterness. I can be persuaded either way. You need to think objectively rather than spraying a load of bullshit driven by your emotions and goodness knows what else.

In reply to centurion05:


Err..Actually my original purpose was to inform those who were interested that there was a report on the news about Ranulph Fiennes' attempt on the Eiger. Since then it's degenerated into a ridiculous and shameful slagging off fest by SOME posters.

Let's be honest now, there are some registered posters who have done the Eiger or attempted it, and all credit and respect to them. But how many of the detractors of what Ranulph Fiennes has done realistically have a chance of doing the same, guided or not? I know I will never do anything remotely as gutsy in the mountaineering world, not as long as the hole in my arse points downwards, but I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Opinions and arseholes. Everyones got one and mostly they stink.

Once again, well done Ranulph, and well done Ian and Kenton.

DJ

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: I have posted a fair amount of crap but i do believe that hard alpine routes will perhaps become an option for rich adventure seekers who dont want to take the time to learn how to do it proprerly since ranulph has publicised it. If it does occur it will mean that people with no talent for climbing will end up on serious routes endangering those around them. It is important that this is discouraged by condemming the style of ranulps 'climbing' of the Eigerwand (not the money it has created). But as i said before this phase if it ever happens will be short lived as the N faces of apline peaks are dangerous places ever more so with GW and sooner ore later one of these rich people will be killed similar perhaps to whympers party on the Matterhorn (the ending of that whole period of alpine peak bagging) and it will stop and once again be only for those with the neccasery skill to be there.

In reply to JoeL 90:
Public schools have a wide variety of pupils and parents. In my experience of them I'd say only a very small minority of parents have inherited wealth. The vast majority of them work very very hard and make enormous sacrifices to send their kids there. I fail to see any argument why if you work hard and have had a bit of luck you shouldn't give your kids the best possible start. May be one day when you grow up and have kids of your own you will see this point of view. I'd be interested to know what experience of public school you have in order to make these remarks ?

How the hell can you compare pro cyclists to explorers/ climbers they are two totally different activities which have virtually nothing in common. You would train for them in totally different ways- do some research. Both are extremely arduous undertakings but can't be compared.

But both of these are topics for a different thread

I very rarely post or even look on UKC these days and threads like this are the reason why. A guy has managed to raise millions of pounds for charity shorly that is something to be celebrated ?? The whole character assignation leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

I say good on him and I for one will be making a donation.

In reply to Deejay: To have an opinion do i have to apply to someone stating my climbing credentials and then it be judged whether im worthy or not?

In reply to JoeL 90:


No but apparently Ranulph Fiennes has to be made by the UKC mafia before he can do anything.

As for buying ascents of alpine summits how do you think the whole game started?

Get real, the man has never claimed to be an Alpinist just someone who wants to raise cash for a worthwhile cause. That's the real issue but apparently it upsets people.

DJ

In reply to JoeL 90:

In reply to Jamie McPherson: Yeah most of that Pro Cyclist vs ranulph was a bit of a larf, you obviously cant compare them in terms of feats but perhaps the amount of work put in is another issue and obvioulsy PCs put in more.

fee paying schools, my mum and dad dont agree with them and wouldn't have had the money to send me yet still offered it as a choice to me when i was going to secondary school, now i didn't like the fact that i had that choice but some of my mates didn't we all worked as hard as each other but because peoples parents have more money it shouldn't be that that entitles their child to better education. or the other way round, that because of lack of money they are deprived of a good education.

this is why the system is unfair and fee paying schools should be abolished.

In reply to JoeL 90:

I have only dipped into this thread for a few quotes and it seems you are really really really thick, unsympathetic, and jealous of Ranulf Fiennes climbing the Eiger. It pains me to say it but so is Al Evans, Big Yin and any others that I have not had the misfortune to read their comments.

He did the climb to raise money, not to say he had climbed the Eiger. If any of you could have done it with Kenton and Ian, could you be sure you would raise over a million pounds for charity, remember, a famous name will drag in much more than you nonentities.

If you could not raise that money, better donate a million pounds to a charity to ask people NOT to do these things, though none of you are capable of organising a pissup in a brewery so there is little chance.

Either put up or shut up,

In reply to JoeL 90:

and continue to do so...but I will not hold that against you.


Oh really, it was Sir Ranulph Fiennes who started this trend? You need to read up on a bit of climbing history. I think you may find, as someone as posted above, that this is how 'alpinism' actually began.

What is wrong with guided ascents? Nothing as far as I can see.

Mick

In reply to Deejay:

To all who have posted on here expressing disapprobation (might be too big a word for you, so Google it)of RF's actions how many of you have summited or started out on the Nordwand? Not "thought about it" or "one day" but actually been on it.

DJ

In reply to JoeL 90: >this is why the system is unfair and fee paying schools should be abolished.

no it's not - it's real life. people with more resources (be it money or talent or luck) will be able to do things others can't.

I'm hoping my kids will get into the local grammar schools - and I'll chuck whatever resources at it i can to give them the best chance of doing so (which probably includes paying over the odds to live here) - and they'll have a better chance of getting in because some kids from rich families will be going to other fee paying schools. Happy days...

In reply to Jamie McPherson:

I have no doubt that most people here agree with you, as I do. But I'd also say good on UKC for letting this thread develop, and showing the other side.

In reply to sutty: yes your right i am really jealous i wish i was a 63 year old man who's lost his wife to cancer and his sister too. I also wish i had few fingers on my left hand. All this i would be willing to heap upon ignorant 16 yr old shoulders just to be dragged up the Nf onlyto be helied off.

no i dont really want any of this, i would like to one day climb the Nf its a lovely inspiring line and i wish to do it justice with and ascent of a style to match its beauty. I would also one day like to get a job and pay taxes that go to those that need help and hopefully contribute money to charity. None of our arguments are based on ourselves been better that ranulph at climbing and so im not quite sure where youve got the message im jealous of him. ive also always supported his contribution to charity

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
That's definitely a point that needs making too. Whymper pulled something similar on the Matterhorn, really.

In reply to Steve Parker:

And lost some of his party into the bargain. Good job the cognoscenti of UKC didn't hear about that little escapade eh?

DJ

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Yeah my climbing histories a bit sketchy to non-existent most of its from this book that i got free with some film about alpinism. Yes fiennes did start the trend of rich people making big fusses about doing N routes in the alps. I think this may become a problem in the future. you dont, fair enough. Its good to voice such concers and hear people opinions.

i do apologise for you having to read through some of the nonsense ive posted.

In reply to Al Evans: I think the view that Ran's eiger climb is a dangerous precedent is wrong and paranoid. guides' bureaus do not have the power to say if a mountain/route must only be guided or not and local authorities appreciate that the majority of mountain tourism money does not come from guided ascents (nor does any money paid to guides go to local authorities)

Everest - this is a bad example. One can still attempt to climb everest very cheaply, say around 7-8000 dollars which is pretty cheap for an 8-10 week holiday. For this money, clearly, you get minimum logistical back up but isn't that what a 'real' climber want anyway? You chose your style and take responsibility for your choice. If the fact that 'non' climbers are 'dragged to the top' degrades your achievement as a real-climber, perhaps you are climbing it for the wrong reasons? Anyway, there are many other mountains to climb...

Lastly, if others attempt the eiger for charity after this precedent thats fine.These individuals must take responsibility for their own choices and actions, as we all do in life. We should remember the true eiger precedent was set by Harrer et al in 1938...does the responsibility of others'lives lost since fall on their shoulders? I think not.

happyposting!

In reply to JoeL 90:

You are either trolling or you really are numb. If you are trolling then you are a complete nob. If you're just naive then at the very least Google Edward Whymper.

DJ

In reply to Deejay: 4th 'get real' of the day come on be more original. he can do what ever he wants officially hes now got my permission. but this doesn't mean i nor anyone else cant criticise him. Im just (as well as posting utter crap) raising a concen that he put other people in danger though his lack of skill going up the ENF and may encourage others with similarly little skill to do likewise. this would be dangerous.

In reply to Deejay:

Or 16 years old. Can't expect him to know every bit of climbing history.

In reply to JoeL 90:

Can you think of anything else that might apply to? Blimey, climbing is a dangerous sport!

In reply to JoeL 90:

You are Smart Guy aka Baluchi and I claim my £5.

DJ

In reply to Steve Parker: indeed, its not part of my as course and i prefer actually climbing to reading about climbing history but if its dark, wet and cold as it is today and i have no work to do and its a sunday evening i though it would be an idea to express my naive concerns over the style of this ascent.

In reply to guywillett: i see there has been a few more posts while i wrote the last one! Certainly in the victorian times etc (whymper etal) guides were used on most major ascents and guiding is pretty much as old as the sport of alpinism.

I don't understand how people can get upset by people rich or otherwise being guided up things however hard. These clients make their choice of style and good for them. Those who want to climb any or all things unguided, good for them too!

In reply to JoeL 90:

I hope you may have learnt something from this debate.....unlike Al Evans.

In reply to Paul Atkinson: I dont think I am any more anonymous than you ,at least my profile shows where I live,who are you then ,you could be anyone ,put your name and address on if you dont want to be anonymous.
Most people on here dont use their real name for good reasons ,it doesnt make their opinions any less worthwhile.

I dont like media stunts of any kind ,media stunts in the mountains I like least of all ,especially irresponsible ones like this.
I also have an inbuilt dislike of those who seek glorification in this manner.

I also dont use guides and I strongly feel if you cant do a route yourself you shouldnt do it all.

It seems to me most people think this this was all a silly stunt .but because it was for charity it was ok,well the end doesnt justify the means.

Also the guides were paid to do it ,no doubt otherwise they would have told him to bugger off.

I also have a healthy distrust of people who raise money for charity because in my experience they often raise quite a lot for themselves.

In my rescue team we had to disassociate ourselves from several people who did various fund raising activities for us ,but we have yet to see one penny.

So to summarise I dont really like any sort of media circus in the mountains and this was one of the silliest I have seen ,therefore I think the person who did it was a tosser.

That person who keeps being rude about me is just a bigger tosser who probably lives miles from any mountains.

Anyway off for a roll up.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Aye, thats what its all about. Such discussions are always great, i always learn alot about a sport i love very much mind you i need to my knowledge isn't right good.

In reply to Steve Parker: sorry, forgive me i dont really understand.

In reply to Big Yin:
Guy (I should say I am a guide...)

In reply to guywillett: sorry seem to have mucked up the inserting text.. hope you'll take time to read it anyway!

In reply to guywillett: Aye I read it ,I dont think it is narrow minded and elitist to say that using guides is wrong and if you cant do a route yourself then you shouldnt do it.
For me there are some routes I would really like to do but are too hard for me,so I dont do them because if you use a guide then you arent doing the route yourself properly are you,the buzz for most comes from doing the leading or at least your share.
Using a guide ,you only cheat yourself.
Thats not why I object to this eiger carry on ,it was a whole different ball game,I dont like that sort of thing in the mountains,why didnt he climb the Eiffel Tower or such like and not demean the mountain and those who went before.

Cheers ,

Off for another roll up.

In reply to Big Yin:

Okay, that's your feeling. Does that mean everyone in the world should stop using mules, or porters, or telepheriques, or buses, or camels, or oxygen, or ropes, or or or what? Have you drawn some arbitrary point at which validity stops? Who says you've drawn it at the right place? Most people here seem to disagree, actually, and even more 'most people' in the wider world definitely disagree. Climbing is what it is, despite the many adolescent alarms about the future. Don't assume you've got some hotline into the essence of climbing. It's every one of us, and it always will be. Thankfully, we're all different, and we all do it for different reasons. Will people please stop with this alarmist crap about the 'death of climbing'!? If anyone wants to go and do a Toni Kurz, the mountain is still there. Ignore any fixed ropes, or cut them. The challenge is as achievable now as it ever was. Get a manila rope and some friends. When you get to the Hinterstoisser, cut the fixed rope. No worries. Most of all, stop doing this teeny-angst crap about climbing.

In reply to Big Yin:

I'd rather do a route without a guide because it doesn't feel like a proper achievement otherwise. In fact I'm very wary of climbing with men generally because some of them dominate the decision-making and take away my challenge. The ones I do choose to climb with are brilliant and have earned my respect.
But I don't go around saying all women should avoid climbing with dominating men, or that all less-confident climbers are wrong for climbing with people more experienced. People should do what fits in with their perception of the world.

Of course it's narrow minded and elitist to say that using guides is wrong when for some people it makes perfect sense. Why should everyone else have to do things your way, or mine?

In reply to Alison Stockwell: Well even guides agree with me ,have you ever heard of a guide using a guide ?
some guides are much better climbers than others ,so why dont the less able ones use a guide for a route they could never do themselves because they know its bollocks,you have achieved nothing.

I think the vast majority of climbers dont use guides ,but anyway that was only a side issue the main was the media circus in the mountains ,tthats my point.

You should read Syd Scroggies book,now thats an inspiration.......

In reply to JoeL 90:

But hang on, at the start of your rant state schools were great and so there would be no need for public schools. Now without money you are deprived a "good education"...... make your mind up please.

And as someone above said, what about the parents. Do they not get a say?

If I were to earn enough money to send my child to a public school, and I wanted to do that, then to be honest who the f*ck are you to tell me I can't? I'll have paid my tax on it, hence paying towards a state school place which the kid wouldnt be using (hence increasing the average funding per state pupil), and whats left is mine to spend pretty much as I choose. If I wanted to leave it all in a trust fund for my children then I could do that, or I could spend it on sending them to public school, or I could spend it all on alcohol and die a penniless alcoholic, or blow the whole lot on a round the world holiday when I'm 75. My money, my choice, as long as its spent in some legal way. And I just can't see any rational justification for making the idea of doing whatever you think is the best thing to give your child a good start in life illegal.

As for the rest of the thread, I'm saddened and sickened at the amount of bile, bitterness and pure green-eyed jealousy that some people have come out with.

• Going to Eton does not necessarily make you rich
  
• Having a fancy name does not necessarily make you rich
  
• From what I remember of his book, he lived an absolute paupers life whilst planning some of the arctic expeditions, so I don't think he was exactly the landed gentry class at that point.
  
• Anyone who thinks that "anyone" could do many of the things he has done is simply deluding themselves. SAS selection, and dragging a sled to the poles, and all that stuff, you really think that the average man in the street could do all of that?
  
• So he self-publicises. So what? It might just be what he is good at. And if it is, then he has earnt a hell of a lot of money for charities over the years putting that talent to good use. If he was simply using that talent as a second-rate celebrity, and pocketing all the money, would that make him a better person somehow? He has combined a talent for publicity with being a driven sufferer, but has done so in a way which has generated a lot of money for a number of decent causes. How many people here can say the same, that they have done what they are good at in life, but done it to raise god knows how many millions for charity? I certainly can't. Let he who is without sin, and all that.......

AJM

In reply to Big Yin:

Have you ever heard a guide saying people who use guides are wrong to do so?

In reply to Alison Stockwell:

Interesting, that bit. I've been involved (as an instructor) on a few womens' climbing courses. Very different skills involved from those required to teach men.

I could write several things on this thread but the most important one is that my youngest son and I would not be here at all but for people like Sir Ran. It is as simple as that!
My existance for the last thirty one years and that of my son is totally as a result of the people who raised the money to fund the research and develop the expertise to treat and operate on the various types of cancer that many people get.
To be introduced to the antenatal team at the clinic as "My miracle lady" by the consultant is a very sobering experience. To be pregnant and succeed in carrying your baby full term when you have had a cancer removed and shouldn't still be around, let alone succeed in conceiving in the first place is an amazing experience. Then to be presented with your son who you knew throughout your pregnancy that you were more likely to lose than carry is indeed a miracle.
I will be eternally grateful to those who raised that funding.
Some mornings I waken up and am completely debilitated by vertigo until I take my tablets for several days until it settles. To think of being on a sheer wall on a mountain with or without a rope and simply looking down and ending up how I feel at those times doesn't bear thinking about.
Well done Sir Ran and the guides and the team who supported you I for one know what it is like to depend on people like you. Thank you.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:


There is nothing wrong at all, Mick. Nor is there anything wrong with a guiding firm part-owning/ sponsoring a widely used climbing forum.

However, it does devalue mountaineering (climbing, generally perhaps) if guided ascents are viewed as an equivalent achievement to doing without. It is hard to stop the mass-media doing this, but climbers should take every opportunity to highlight the difference.

I now spend most of my time in a wealthy country with no tradition of climbing. I have come across people getting into climbing who have no comprehension that big mountains can be tackled unguided or that real objectives exist beyond the Seven Summits; one guy with the requisite funds has even already 'done' Kili and Elbrus, despite admitting he didn't really enjoy it. Meanwhile we have media calls for certification for anyone wanting to venture into the local hills, usually augmented by a quote from the local celebrity who's 'done' Everest (he's now off to the poles, surprise, surprise). Extrapolate this into the future and there's real danger that far more of what we regard as our territory becomes annexed by bogus paying adventurers and perhaps effectively closed to us.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Mick, how do you know I have not learnt anything from this debate?
I have learnt several things, the main one being that you can't justifiably crtiticise a stunt wrapped up as an act of charity, and that a good publicist will always beat an average critic. That the normal conventions of mountaineering which we all normally accept can be overturned on any mountain, not just Everest, if you attach the label charity to them. That its seen as ok to make a more than comfortable living out of 'working' for charity.

In reply to AJM: First of all bravo! im amazed you just read through all of the complete nonsense on this thread.

I personally think that from what ive read on here and other information that private schools probably are a better source of education that state schools, however this is often overcome becasue while public school boys are sitting in each other dorms mocking the plebs, many people in state schools will be more intrested in either learning or having a good time but not by discriminating others. However the situation must be viewed that as private schools over better education generally it is unfair that through the parents wealth one child can a have a better education than another. The right to the best education is a basic right. now obviously unequality in state schools must be looked at, but the aboloition of private scools would be a major step.

I cant tell you yet not do do it although maybe your bank manager will, but in future i hope it isn't an option

in reply to the other stuff why dont you read through it agaim maybe youll find your answer maybe not.

In reply to tobyfk: 'it does devalue mountaineering (climbing, generally perhaps) if guided ascents are viewed as an equivalent achievement to doing without'

Did Fiennes claim that his ascent was an equivalent achievement to a guideless one? Personally I think that raising £2.5 million or whatever it was for a worthwhile charity is a greater achievement than an unguided ascent of an Alpine route that has already been climbed many times.

In reply to Alison Stockwell: This is guy willett on another computer! I agree guides generally think using guides is fine - its all about your chosen style etc...

I am a guide and sometimes use other guides, especially for skiing in new places to make the most of the snow etc. Likewise, most of my climbing partners are guides, and sometimes I will climb routes which if it me and me would be too hard, but with a mate who's a guide and better climber it becomes possible for both of us. Why would this better mate chose to climb with me? Friendship, trust, enjoyment and sometimes that symbiotic relationship where we both climb harder as a ropeteam than the individual than the sum of our abilities...

In reply to John2:


Presumably not. My point is the need for people in this thread to laud his ascent so much. Why? There are loads of active climbers of Sir Ran T-W-F's age. Jim Donini is - I think - well into his sixties and is still new routing in Patagonia, for instance.


Charity is an emotive topic. I said higher in the thread that I am jaded by people wanting charity sponsorship to something that appears fun or stimulating for them. Maybe I am too cynical, but it just seems a cake-and-eat-it excuse for people's self-indulgences. A real hero is someone like Margaret Hassan, devoted her adult life in Iraq to Care International, seemingly with no self-interest of any kind, either for publicity or - tragically - personal safety.

In reply to tobyfk:
>My point is the need for people in this thread to laud his ascent so much. Why?

Because it's high profile. Because it involves a celebrity. You can't miss it on the news, so you comment on it. You're almost forced into having an opinion just because of the exposure. Inevitably people come down on one side or the other. I don't think anyone has lauded it as an Alpine ascent inordinately, but a bit of applause doesn't seem inappropriate.

If you did some route for charity somewhere, and it was reported on the national news, we'd all be commenting on that too.

In reply to anyone:

Can anyone tell me where I can get a 'Fiennes is a Git' t-shirt?

I mean what a tw*t raising all this money for charity whilst risking his arse on the Eigerwand. I suppose he could have spent the last week sat on his arse pontificating on threads like this.........

Good on him, I don't care if he bared his arse in Piccadilly Circus to raise money for charity. If he people think this devalues climbing or the mountains then get a life and don't be so anal, we don't own the mountains or have the right to decide what people should do on them.

In reply to tobyfk: I don't disagree with you about Margaret Hassan, but the organisation that she worked for required funding. Charities are not unlike businesses in that they need a stream of income, and that income is generally brought in by salesmen in the cases of businesses and by publicists in the case of charities.

I pointedly refuse to contribute to office workers who have been offered a free trip up Kilimanjaro if they succeeed in raising £x worth of charity sponsorship, but I think that Fiennes is operating on a rather larger scale than those people. I assume that he is financially self sufficient and has decided that raising money for charity is a more worthwhile use of his spare time than e.g. making ethically flawless ascents of mountains to the benefit of nobody else.

Who the hell cares what the general public think of climbers? At least 'What did you think of that Fiennes bloke on the Eiger?' makes a change from 'Have you seen that French bird who free climbs without ropes?'.

In reply to Steve Parker:


I think so too; although one has to be careful about generalising as there will always be people who are different.
One of the climbing instructing concepts that I think works less well for many women, and perhaps some men is this idea about pushing people beyond their comfort zone. I think for some people, feeling scared and out of control is negative and terminally off-putting.
Placing that in the context of the current thread I find it quite surprising that someone like Fiennes; who you would expect to be a control freak, would volunteer to put themself in a dependency situation. But just because I can't get my head around it, doesn't make it bad.

In reply to tobyfk:

There's not that much "lauding", over and above "well done". A lot of the comments here are more *against* the personal attacks, jealous bile and unwarranted assumptions that people like Al and JoeL90 are coming out with. they're not making reasoned arguments, just displaying a kind of personal nastiness that many people posting here seem to find distasteful.

Again, I'll be the first to say that just because something's for charity doesn't make it right (people who've been here a while know my views on 3-Peakers, for example. Sponsored Chav cull anyone? It's OK, it's for charidee!).

But again, rather than concentrating on the arguments against inappropriate charity events in general, most of the comment From certain individuals has been of the "I hate rich tossers" and "hundreds of millions of people could pull a 400lb sled for 100 days across the antarctic if they were rich enough and had the time" variety...sheer personal bile against an individual and his perceived "advantages" in life rather than reasoned argument.

That's been my main reason for posting stuff here...disquiet at the sheer apparently envious nastiness from some quarters.

In reply to Steve Parker:

OK. I certainly applaud Kenton ...

In reply to Rob Naylor:

Agreed. I have nothing against Sir Ran as such.

In reply to Rob Naylor:

Purely on a statistical level do you think on a global scale we could actually find 100 million who could? I think we probably could. But like surviving a famine, you would probably have to make it obligatory in someway - "haul that sledge or I'll shoot your children" type of thing. Therefore constructing a study that fits into the current ethical guidelines for medical or social science studies might be a bit tricky.

My republican radar started whirring at the "Congratulations to Sir Ran..." title to the News item, it felt rather forelock tugging, but beyond that a fine effort on an obviously hard and serious route.

...I'm not sure how it relates to "Sir Ran" but somehow with this thread I feel I should state for the record that I'm anti-private school as well.

In reply to TobyA:

A pretty safe position to maintain in Helsinki, I'd guess?

In reply to Rob Naylor: Rob, I'm certainly not envious of Ran, and I think as a climber I have every right to criticise the use of a climb that was a major landmark in Alpine history for a 'stunt' to raise money for charity.

As to my personal criticism of Ran, its just that, personal and I have no argument with anybody that disagrees with it. Unsuprisingly (considering his ability with his publicity) that doesn't seem to work the other way.
I have recieved personal criticism on this thread, most of which has little to do with the point, and few of the people making it have considered the possible implications which I have pointed out.

In reply to Al Evans: I'M envious of Ran - I'd love to have done what he did! However, my envy doesn't stop me admiring him and congratulating him on a great achievement.

PS often feeling envious is an indicator of what we would love to do - and, therefore, a motivation to go and do it!

In reply to Al Evans:

Why, what harm has been done by him climbing this route?

Who are you or anyone else to decide what is an acceptable reason to climb this route?!

No doubt many ascents on this wall are more ego-driven than Fiennes ascent.

In reply to TobyA: 'I should state for the record that I'm anti-private school as well'

You know what, Toby? I reckon the helicopter was owned by one of his stinking rich schoolfriends from Eton who was helping him out. It's bloody disgraceful. The rest of us have to walk down. Property is theft. Viva la revolucion. No pasaran. You couldn't lend me a fiver till my postal order comes through, could you?

In reply to John2: appreciate the tongue in cheek.... but just to clarify: the bloke who paid for the chopper is a self made comprehensive educated salt of the earth dude...

In reply to Anonymous:
Nobody, I'm just a climber that loves our sport
I doubt it

Ok, whats wrong with this ascent(stunt), Well look at the state of Everest, I would like to confine this sort of thing, and the fact that you can only climb Everest if you are very rich just to Everest.
This takes it out of that realm and puts the Alpine classics firmly in the frame, dont think that if stunts like this are noticed by the various councils involved they will be reluctant to put 'Route fees' on certain routes. They will no doubt justify this by rescue costs etc, BUT IT WILL HAPPEN.
This is a seriously bad thing in Alpine mountaineering, you dont seriously think that other 'adventurous charity workers' are not lining up in glee to follow Ran's lead and have a jolly in the Alps on the back of a charity.
All of which can only be bad for the sport of alpinism, nay, a disaster, the very threat of it means it should never have taken place.

In reply to Big Yin:

I also have a healthy distrust of people who raise money for charity because in my experience they often raise quite a lot for themselves.

Good point, every body is saying he raised 2.5 million, I wonder if we will ever hear how much actually ended up with the charity.

In reply to Al Evans:

i imagine if you can be bothered it'd be fairly easy to find out

In reply to Al Evans:


Everest is the way it is precisely because of what it is, the highest mountain on the planet. I doubt you are going to get queues of punters on this or the other alpine north faces as they simply don’t have the same resonance with the general public. I go down the pub with my non-climbing mates and say I’ve climbed the Eigerwand, I’ll get a few blank looks or at best a 'well done', I say I have climbed Everest and I’ll be a hero for a night!

The idea that this ascent might be a disaster for alpinism is ludicrous.

In reply to Al Evans: By the way before you all go berserk that is not aimed directly at Ran, rather at the people who sponsered him and may never come up with the money.

In reply to Al Evans: 'I also have a healthy distrust of people who raise money for charity because in my experience they often raise quite a lot for themselves'

Given that the Marie Curie web site invites people to donate directly to the charity, I think it's more than probably that Fiennes himself is receiving no money whatsoever from his activities.

In reply to Al Evans: yes you're right ran the man thought my my i'm getting old what i'll do is con all these people into getting me on a free jolly up the eiger, it doesn't matter, if we don't really raise any money, and after me they put a via ferrata route up, where punters can pay and die to their hearts content

maybe you should take a leaf out of his book and do something amazing instead of typing this endless nonsense which you seem to think has a point, to maybe inspire folk like me, who spend far too much time in front of a pc trying to make a living

In reply to Al Evans:

Have you ever worked on any outside broadcasts about climbing?

In reply to Deejay:

More photos of Sir Ranulph Fiennes on the Eiger at his blog at myspace.com

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=1494...

In reply to Al Evans:


Al, I'm gonna attempt to run the New Forest Marathon in September. Will you sponsor me? All money raised will go to the Alzheimer's Society.

Thanks, Steve

In reply to Tyler:

I went to a fascinating lecture and film show recently. Apparently on the 1933 Everest expedition they did a "live broadcast" from the highest camp to London using a combination of wire and radio links. To do that they carried thousands of feet of cable up the mountain. I thought that was amazing.