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Gore-tex problems

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 2pints 17 Sep 2007
During a nice walk in the rain around Pen-Y-Ghent yesterday I began to find my XCR Gore-tex jacket becoming very damp on the inside.

I doubt this was moisture from me as I wasn't working *that* hard to be sweating at all but seemed as if my jacket was leaking.

The aforementioned jacket is approx 2 years old and as far as I can see in fairly good nick, no holes or scratches and it's never been washed or anything.

Anyone have any ideas what the problem or the solution is?

I want my waterproof to feel like I'm all snug in a tent again!

theblondeone 17 Sep 2007
In reply to 2pints:
I must admit I've had similar problems with 2 - 3 year old gortex sailing kit, although that does get a bit more abused than my walking stuff. Try washing it with non bio detergent, no fabric softner and tumble dry it. It does make a difference. If you're not brave enough to machine it then a good old soak in the bath (the jacket - not you) works too.
Anonymous 17 Sep 2007
In reply to 2pints: you'd be surprised how much one sweats- i'm sure most of us sweat more than pigs
and remember that goretex has limited breathability
Removed User 17 Sep 2007
In reply to 2pints:
Could be clogged with dirt if never washed but well used?
Try sporting a tenner and get a bottle of Tec Wash and TX Direct.
They do exactly what they say on the bottle. Tumble dry warm and you should be sorted
Worked on an old North Face jacket I inherited that didn't seem to preform so well.
 pog100 17 Sep 2007
In reply to 2pints:

I agree, I made the mistake of never washing gore-tex. It behaves much better when clean and the NikWax stuff mentioned works well.
 Jack00 17 Sep 2007
In reply to 2pints: If you have had the jacket for a while, the waterproof coating on the outside of the jacket will have been worn off. This means that the outer fabric (the bit that isn't waterproof) becomes saturated. The sweat from your body cannot get through the fabric nearly as well as the saturated outer layer will not allow it to.
This means that most of your sweat will stay on the inside of your jacket, giving the impression of leaking.

(We get loads of people wondering why their jacket is 'leaking' at work)
 Jack00 17 Sep 2007
In reply to 2pints: By the way to re-waterproof it, wash it with Nikwax tech wash.
 Frank4short 17 Sep 2007
In reply to 2pints: Send it back. Get a new one. Gore tex is apparently guaranteed for life...
Removed User 17 Sep 2007
In reply to Frank4short:
"Life" in most retail outlets = about 18 months use.
 sutty 17 Sep 2007
In reply to 2pints:

Let me tell you a secret that Gore will not.
if there is water running down your jacket it will not breath, if you do not believe me try holding your face on a bowl of water and breathing.

It only works when there is light rain, if working hard in heavy rain there is nowhere for the sweat to go, so it tries to get out, finds all the pores blocked by the water on the outside and runs down, wetting you.

It will work in snow, thick mist etc IF there is a difference in temperature. If not, you may as well have bought a £10 jacket that is waterproof.

I have both a breathable and waterproof one and use the waterproof for standing around.
Jake Avery 17 Sep 2007
In reply to 2pints: well during my very wet walk on those very peaks yesterday my jacket which was freshly waterproofed gave up and i had to finish the walk sopping wet with around an inch in me boots lol
 Frank4short 17 Sep 2007
In reply to Removed User: Does help if you know the guys in the shop you bought it off of.
Removed User 17 Sep 2007
In reply to Frank4short:
Even better to work there yourself
 Ridge 17 Sep 2007
In reply to sutty:

Yep. Goretex works brilliantly in the desert, apparently.
Not so good in our climate - but it is brilliantly marketed
 withey 18 Sep 2007
In reply to 2pints:

> The aforementioned jacket is approx 2 years old and as far as I can see in fairly good nick, no holes or scratches and it's never been washed or anything.

As mentioned, your problem is that you've never washed it in 2 years!

How often do you wash your base-layers? Your mid-layers? Why not your outer layer? Did you read the care instructions?

I'll be as concise as I can, cos it gets a bit much but:

Your jacket is "breathable" because there are billions of holes in a layer of PTFE (plumbers tape), which theoretically allow droplets of water vapour pass out. If you've been sweating into it for 2 years, then lots of salts, and grime etc etc will clog up these pores. Also 2 years of water running down the outside will have reduced the effectiveness of the Durable Water Repellancy (DWR) of the outer material. It hasn't gone anywhere, it's just not working as well as it could. Do you notice that the water no longer beads up and runs off? It wets out. As previously mentioned you would find it hard to breathe in a bowl full of water, your jacket is the same.

First thing to do is not to take it back to the shop, but to go to the shop you go it from (or any outdoors shop for that matter), and tell them you need to reproof your jacket, as it's not breathing very well. They will probably recommend either Nikwax or Grangers (Grangers is my personal favourite). You may think that they're bumping up the price by offering you the Nikwax Techwash (which is nothing more than a soap i.e. it's not a detergent), or the Grangers Cleaner (same applies). They're actually trying to help you out. A clean jacket will 'accept' the reproofing agent than a grimey jacket. It's like applying glue. No point putting it on a dirty surface, cos you'll just glue the dirt!

When it comes to the reproofer, the helpful shop assistant should ask you if it's a 2-layer, or a 3-layer garment. If it's 3-layer, then that's fine and dandy, and you can use a wash-in reproofer (Nikwax, or Grangers again), however if you've got a 2-layer garment, then you're gonna have to go for the more expensive (and labour intensive) option of the spray-on reproofer. You have to spray the stuff on, and then rub it into the material with a sponge or cloth or something.

Once you've done this, you're nearly ready, but not quite yet. You've got to either shove it into a tumble-drier on the lowest setting for 30-45 minutes, or put your iron on the cool setting, and iron it slowly, making sure you get plenty of warmth into the garment. Don't melt it though! If you don't do this, the reproofer will wash off in next to no time.

Don't even think about taking the jacket back as "no longer waterproof". The chances are it's simply not true.

If you want to check the waterproofness, then put the jacket on the floor, and pour a cup of water onto the outside of the jacket. Give it a bit of a rub, try and see if you can push the water through the material. Leave it on there for 15 minutes. Then pour off the water, and feel the inside. Probably dry. The outside will probably be wetted-out though. Do the whole clean-reproof-heat treat job, and then try again. The water should run off quite easily.

And yes... I do work in a shop. Hence why I recommend Grangers.

P.S. There are other companies too. I've heard that Storm are very good too, but G still get it in my book!
 withey 18 Sep 2007
In reply to withey:

P.S. Sorry it wasn't quite as concise as I promised. But it's all there now. Hopefully people can just search for this thread now!
 sutty 18 Sep 2007
In reply to withey:

Excellent summary of what to do.

Using Goretex bivvi bags in an open boat for three weeks was enough for the pores to get clogged with salt from sea spray,making them useless. They ended up rigging a plastic cover over to stop themselves getting too wet. Sorry cannot find details of the voyage myself, search for Odins Raven,
OP 2pints 18 Sep 2007
In reply to Jake Avery:

You weren't one of the DofE'ers on the mobile phone walking down from Pen-Y-Ghent calling for directions were you?
OP 2pints 18 Sep 2007
In reply to withey:



That's fantastic mate thanks. I'll nip into Nevisport and try to pick up those bits!

I'll keep y'all posted about the results. Looks like we may have the weather to test it very soon...

 dycotiles 18 Sep 2007
In reply to withey:
> Also 2 years of water running down the outside will have reduced the effectiveness of the Durable Water Repellancy (DWR) of the outer material. It hasn't gone anywhere, it's just not working as well as it could.

Of course it goes away, that is why you need to re-apply it periodically!
In reply to sutty:

> Excellent summary of what to do.

He's been well trained by OM

First thing I'd do is to wash it with a soap-based cleaner; Nikwax Techwash, Granger's Extreme, or soap flakes.

Then give it a low temperature tumble to restore the DWR.

If the jacket still wets out, then I'd look to re-proof it.
 withey 24 Sep 2007
In reply to captain paranoia:

I've also had 5 years of outdoors retail to back me up, but OM helped

To be honest, after 2 years, the tumble dry thing isn't gonna help much. If it was Triple Point then I'd agree with you, but just go for the reproof. Especially if you use Granger's 2-in-1. Works just as well.
 kendogcatchy 24 Sep 2007
In reply to withey:
Excellent summary. NowMy mum was whinging that her goretex jacket (c. 15 years old..) wasn't working. I have heard of places where they can fix minor tears, retape seams etc, for much cheaper than a new jacket - do you per chance know anyone who does this too?

Cheers
 Guy Hurst 24 Sep 2007
In reply to kendogcatchy: There's a company based near Carlisle called Maintain who have done a couple of good repairs/alterations for me. Number is (or was) 01228 674410.

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