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Recycling your plastic bottles and tin cans is as much use as putting a plaster on a malignant cancer tumour.
We have to many people and to many emerging nations and all the energy saving light bulbs in the world won't make a blind bit of difference.
"Save the Planet" is a business, nothing more nothing less.
The planet is f*cked and will only be getting more f*cked in the near future unless we somehow lose 3 billion people and convince India and China to revert back to bicycles.
<tip toes back under bridge>
We have to many people and to many emerging nations and all the energy saving light bulbs in the world won't make a blind bit of difference.
"Save the Planet" is a business, nothing more nothing less.
The planet is f*cked and will only be getting more f*cked in the near future unless we somehow lose 3 billion people and convince India and China to revert back to bicycles.
<tip toes back under bridge>
In reply to Cú Chullain: School report would say...could do better
In reply to Cú Chullain: pretty much right, I have said all along industrialising china was a very bad idea. Re: bicycles every ones needs to revert back to them, I never drive my car around town except for the one big weekly grocery shop.
In reply to Cú Chullain:
I know, all the recycle people and save power people are like born again christians, not realising there is as much chance of getting to heaven as stopping global warming, but it makes them feel good to be doing something.
It is like the passengers on the titanic baling it out with cups from the dining room.
I know, all the recycle people and save power people are like born again christians, not realising there is as much chance of getting to heaven as stopping global warming, but it makes them feel good to be doing something.
It is like the passengers on the titanic baling it out with cups from the dining room.
In reply to sutty:
As opposed to not bothering to bail...
You may well be right it may be too late, but it certainly wasn't 20 odd years ago when the Greens started screaming about this. If we're all doomed anyway why not try? It might help, there might even be survivors.
As opposed to not bothering to bail...
You may well be right it may be too late, but it certainly wasn't 20 odd years ago when the Greens started screaming about this. If we're all doomed anyway why not try? It might help, there might even be survivors.
In reply to Cú Chullain:
Two reasons why we recycle.
1- we're running out of landfill,
2- It sets a good example to these emerging industrial nations.
Can't think of any more.
Don't get me started on carbon footprints.
The Ent
Two reasons why we recycle.
1- we're running out of landfill,
2- It sets a good example to these emerging industrial nations.
Can't think of any more.
Don't get me started on carbon footprints.
The Ent
In reply to sutty:
> It is like the passengers on the titanic baling it out with cups from the dining room.
It's like 10 passengers trying to organise a high powered pump that could solve the problem while the other 990 passengers point and laugh... In reply to anonymouse:
Nice
> (In reply to sutty)
> [...]
> It's like 10 passengers trying to organise a high powered pump that could solve the problem while the other 990 passengers point and laugh...
> [...]
> It's like 10 passengers trying to organise a high powered pump that could solve the problem while the other 990 passengers point and laugh...
Nice
In reply to anonymouse:
& the Captain mkes PA announcements saying that the water flooding in is definitely the most significant threat his ship has ever faced...
> It's like 10 passengers trying to organise a high powered pump that could solve the problem while the other 990 passengers point and laugh...
& the Captain mkes PA announcements saying that the water flooding in is definitely the most significant threat his ship has ever faced...
In reply to Cú Chullain:
It is disgusting the way we "recycle" here in the UK.
Having spent years out in Germany, their example of recycling puts us to complete shame. The binmen will refuse to take your rubbish if you have not separated the items accordingly.
I also like the way that in Germany during the winter months, if you run your car to defrost it and warm it up, if caught, you are well and truly fined. Helping the ozone and al that.
I still believe that if I do my bit, it is contributing even in a small way, and also, makes me feel less guilty. I mean, how difficult is it to actually recycle, not difficult at all.
My tuppenceworth anyway
It is disgusting the way we "recycle" here in the UK.
Having spent years out in Germany, their example of recycling puts us to complete shame. The binmen will refuse to take your rubbish if you have not separated the items accordingly.
I also like the way that in Germany during the winter months, if you run your car to defrost it and warm it up, if caught, you are well and truly fined. Helping the ozone and al that.
I still believe that if I do my bit, it is contributing even in a small way, and also, makes me feel less guilty. I mean, how difficult is it to actually recycle, not difficult at all.
My tuppenceworth anyway
In reply to sutty:
Our "Green Rep" (who VOLUNTEERED for the position on the "Green Committee")
who badgers us about recycling (at last count we had seven different bins
for all our rubbish - I suggested that we recycle some of the flippin
BINS!), turning off monitors/fans/misc office equipment and anything else
he can think of to justify his position arrived back after lunch with a
brand new Audi TT. Which he will now use to drive to Green meetings.
And back and forth to work along a route which has a bus every 5 mins!
grrrrrr
Our "Green Rep" (who VOLUNTEERED for the position on the "Green Committee")
who badgers us about recycling (at last count we had seven different bins
for all our rubbish - I suggested that we recycle some of the flippin
BINS!), turning off monitors/fans/misc office equipment and anything else
he can think of to justify his position arrived back after lunch with a
brand new Audi TT. Which he will now use to drive to Green meetings.
And back and forth to work along a route which has a bus every 5 mins!
grrrrrr
In reply to Cú Chullain:
I agree.
We never, ever hear anything in any "green" issues information about trying to reduce population any more, do we? In fact, we give out child benefit and offer fertility treatment on the NHS....
I agree.
We never, ever hear anything in any "green" issues information about trying to reduce population any more, do we? In fact, we give out child benefit and offer fertility treatment on the NHS....
In reply to Cobbler: is he related to david cameron?
In reply to Enty:
...and you never see anything urging you to just NOT BUY STUFF in the first place either, do you? I mean, can you imagine if we all went back to the consumption levels of the 1930s?
> Two reasons why we recycle.
> 1- we're running out of landfill,
> 2- It sets a good example to these emerging industrial nations.
> 1- we're running out of landfill,
> 2- It sets a good example to these emerging industrial nations.
...and you never see anything urging you to just NOT BUY STUFF in the first place either, do you? I mean, can you imagine if we all went back to the consumption levels of the 1930s?
In reply to Atholl de-Saint-Croix:
That's nowt; our binmen refuse take the rubbish if you so much as look at them a bit funny.
> The binmen will refuse to take your rubbish if you have not separated the items accordingly.
That's nowt; our binmen refuse take the rubbish if you so much as look at them a bit funny.
In reply to Cú Chullain:
Indeed. We judge success on a continually growing economy at 2-3% per year, most of which is driven by consumerism.
We live in a democracy.
First politician to stand up and say, 'Right, we're going to deliberately shrink economy, we're all using up too many resources' will get voted out.
So we need some benevolant dictatorship perhaps.
We're in a pension crisis and demographic time bomb of oldies benig more numerous the young'un's. We can't afford future pensions. To meet the aspirations of today's 30 somethings watching their 60 something early retired parents going on hols, living it up, the govt is likely to propose incentives for more children.
The 3 million we need to lose will be arranged. It will come in a series of wars for water and oil, unsustainable migration due to drought.
once the pips really start squeaking in the US for oil it'll go nuclear. However Canada has the largest oil reserves outside Saudi I think in the oil shales, so the US will be top dog for a while yet. Canada should watch out though. And stop bragging about longest undefended border in the world...
WE're all Doooomed...
sorry I've got on a bit
Indeed. We judge success on a continually growing economy at 2-3% per year, most of which is driven by consumerism.
We live in a democracy.
First politician to stand up and say, 'Right, we're going to deliberately shrink economy, we're all using up too many resources' will get voted out.
So we need some benevolant dictatorship perhaps.
We're in a pension crisis and demographic time bomb of oldies benig more numerous the young'un's. We can't afford future pensions. To meet the aspirations of today's 30 somethings watching their 60 something early retired parents going on hols, living it up, the govt is likely to propose incentives for more children.
The 3 million we need to lose will be arranged. It will come in a series of wars for water and oil, unsustainable migration due to drought.
once the pips really start squeaking in the US for oil it'll go nuclear. However Canada has the largest oil reserves outside Saudi I think in the oil shales, so the US will be top dog for a while yet. Canada should watch out though. And stop bragging about longest undefended border in the world...
WE're all Doooomed...
sorry I've got on a bit
In reply to Dolbert:
Run by Al Gore and Bono, no doubt.
> So we need some benevolant dictatorship perhaps.
Run by Al Gore and Bono, no doubt.
In reply to tlm:
1) In the developed world ( & even in the UK) fertility levels are such that the population is falling already.
2) The urgency of the problem is such that it's basically too late for population control measures to deal with.
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
>
> I agree.
>
> We never, ever hear anything in any "green" issues information about trying to reduce population any more, do we? In fact, we give out child benefit and offer fertility treatment on the NHS....
>
> I agree.
>
> We never, ever hear anything in any "green" issues information about trying to reduce population any more, do we? In fact, we give out child benefit and offer fertility treatment on the NHS....
1) In the developed world ( & even in the UK) fertility levels are such that the population is falling already.
2) The urgency of the problem is such that it's basically too late for population control measures to deal with.
In reply to i.munro:
Green issues are a world problem, not a UK problem. The population of the world is still growing exponentially.
150,000 people die every day......... that could make a big difference if 353,015 people weren't being born every day.....
> 1) In the developed world ( & even in the UK) fertility levels are such that the population is falling already.
Green issues are a world problem, not a UK problem. The population of the world is still growing exponentially.
> 2) The urgency of the problem is such that it's basically too late for population control measures to deal with.
150,000 people die every day......... that could make a big difference if 353,015 people weren't being born every day.....
In reply to tlm:
These damn Oxfam people - destroying our planet they are! All this "saving" people, they're just making the situation worse!
(take tongue back out of cheek)
> 150,000 people die every day......... that could make a big difference if 353,015 people weren't being born every day.....
These damn Oxfam people - destroying our planet they are! All this "saving" people, they're just making the situation worse!
(take tongue back out of cheek)
In reply to Cú Chullain:
Good point. Saving the planet could be down to making changes that aren't being tackled (such as developing countries and global industry etc)
However, it might be that a sustainable future for us is one in which all individuals live more frugal lives, and learning to recycle everything that can be recycled could be a good start to becoming what we need to be.
So in Titanic terms, keep handy with your cups people!
Good point. Saving the planet could be down to making changes that aren't being tackled (such as developing countries and global industry etc)
However, it might be that a sustainable future for us is one in which all individuals live more frugal lives, and learning to recycle everything that can be recycled could be a good start to becoming what we need to be.
So in Titanic terms, keep handy with your cups people!
In reply to tlm:
true but you mentioned purely Uk measures to 'encourage' children.
Yes & the green movement has been screaming about this for a very long time
but nothing like enough of a difference (without other measures) to get the 60+% reduction in C02 neeeded within the next few years.
Presumably enviromental activists feel that being ignored about one emergency at a time is a full-time occupation.
> Green issues are a world problem, not a UK problem. The population of the world is still growing exponentially.
true but you mentioned purely Uk measures to 'encourage' children.
>
> 150,000 people die every day......... that could make a big difference if 353,015 people weren't being born every day.....
> 150,000 people die every day......... that could make a big difference if 353,015 people weren't being born every day.....
Yes & the green movement has been screaming about this for a very long time
but nothing like enough of a difference (without other measures) to get the 60+% reduction in C02 neeeded within the next few years.
Presumably enviromental activists feel that being ignored about one emergency at a time is a full-time occupation.
In reply to Cú Chullain: Lets face it, we're all f*****, let's have a party!
In reply to Cú Chullain:
All this "recycling to save the environment" malarky is missing the more pertinent point IMO, which is that we need to reduce the rate we consume non-renewable resources because when the oil starts to become scarce, all hell will break loose.
All this "recycling to save the environment" malarky is missing the more pertinent point IMO, which is that we need to reduce the rate we consume non-renewable resources because when the oil starts to become scarce, all hell will break loose.
In reply to Cú Chullain:
To the original poster :
1) I would rather live in hope than despair.
2) If you aint part of the solution - you are part of the problem.
To the original poster :
1) I would rather live in hope than despair.
2) If you aint part of the solution - you are part of the problem.
In reply to Cú Chullain:
Easy to blame the Chinese, but someone told me the other day (down the pub probably) that, per capita, we produce more carbon than them. There's just so many of them.
Easy to blame the Chinese, but someone told me the other day (down the pub probably) that, per capita, we produce more carbon than them. There's just so many of them.
In reply to GrahamD:
That's the thing. If we do nothing to reduce C02 emissions before the oil starts to get scarce we'll be facing environmental catastrophe at about the same time as out civilization is least able to deal with it because oil is getting scarce.
That's the thing. If we do nothing to reduce C02 emissions before the oil starts to get scarce we'll be facing environmental catastrophe at about the same time as out civilization is least able to deal with it because oil is getting scarce.
In reply to Cú Chullain:
What is truly sad, is that we in the UK are truely privileged, at the expense of the poorer nations, who will be far worsely affected. They will be ones experiencing greater weather fluctuations, longer droughts, followed by greater flooding.
We all have an overdependence on the car, which is worshipped- for me its a real evil object in this world, which few people are prepared to give up. Its proven in London you can cycle to places quicker than you can drive to them.
I started to cycle everywhere, when I realised that few other followed suit, I thought, why should I make the effort, when few others do?
When you enter schools, I've experienced the majority of kids who are generally interested in which car they want to own when they get older.
It seems there are not enough role models, least of all the politicans who preach to us and do something else. The environmental message is not really getting through, nor being taken seriously by anyone.
What I would really like to know is ; Has your house ever been flooded due to changes in the environment, and did it make you stop think and change the way you live your life?
What is truly sad, is that we in the UK are truely privileged, at the expense of the poorer nations, who will be far worsely affected. They will be ones experiencing greater weather fluctuations, longer droughts, followed by greater flooding.
We all have an overdependence on the car, which is worshipped- for me its a real evil object in this world, which few people are prepared to give up. Its proven in London you can cycle to places quicker than you can drive to them.
I started to cycle everywhere, when I realised that few other followed suit, I thought, why should I make the effort, when few others do?
When you enter schools, I've experienced the majority of kids who are generally interested in which car they want to own when they get older.
It seems there are not enough role models, least of all the politicans who preach to us and do something else. The environmental message is not really getting through, nor being taken seriously by anyone.
What I would really like to know is ; Has your house ever been flooded due to changes in the environment, and did it make you stop think and change the way you live your life?
In reply to Cú Chullain:
The thing with all this is that, without major structural changes to the energy supply sources, we are f*cked. The goverment shows no meaningful leadership in these matters. The problem with politician's is that they operate in cycles of 5 years, but they need to make decisions looking at 20+ years - and painful ones at that: Major expansion of nuclear power and renewables, vast improvement of the insulation standards of the housing stock, national congestion charging with hypothication of revenue raised to improving public transport - such as a subsidised national high speed rail, the list goes on..........
Anyway, this dispair leaves me free to party on with my playboy carbon intensive jet set lifestyle!
The thing with all this is that, without major structural changes to the energy supply sources, we are f*cked. The goverment shows no meaningful leadership in these matters. The problem with politician's is that they operate in cycles of 5 years, but they need to make decisions looking at 20+ years - and painful ones at that: Major expansion of nuclear power and renewables, vast improvement of the insulation standards of the housing stock, national congestion charging with hypothication of revenue raised to improving public transport - such as a subsidised national high speed rail, the list goes on..........
Anyway, this dispair leaves me free to party on with my playboy carbon intensive jet set lifestyle!
In reply to Wibble Wibble: ..so you don't even operate in 5 year cycles then..?
In reply to Enty:
The charges associated with the LATS scheme are immense £150 per tonne over the allowed limit from 2010 + Landfill Tax. Most councils can't afford not to change. Though I do believe that recycling plastic and cardboard is more of a token environmentalism than doing something such as diverting bio-degradeable waste from Landfill. I think its more important to stop food waste and other organic matter going to landfill. The plastics and cardboard should take a back seat but unfortunately the average person on the street thinks recycling plastic and card will save the planet.
> (In reply to Cú Chullain)
>
> Two reasons why we recycle.
> 1- we're running out of landfill,
> 2- It sets a good example to these emerging industrial nations.
>
> Can't think of any more.
>
> Don't get me started on carbon footprints.
>
> The Ent
>
> Two reasons why we recycle.
> 1- we're running out of landfill,
> 2- It sets a good example to these emerging industrial nations.
>
> Can't think of any more.
>
> Don't get me started on carbon footprints.
>
> The Ent
The charges associated with the LATS scheme are immense £150 per tonne over the allowed limit from 2010 + Landfill Tax. Most councils can't afford not to change. Though I do believe that recycling plastic and cardboard is more of a token environmentalism than doing something such as diverting bio-degradeable waste from Landfill. I think its more important to stop food waste and other organic matter going to landfill. The plastics and cardboard should take a back seat but unfortunately the average person on the street thinks recycling plastic and card will save the planet.
In reply to Anonymous:
Everyone knows that's down to Flash Gordon and he's only get 22 hours to do it!
> The plastics and cardboard should take a back seat but unfortunately the average person on the street thinks recycling plastic and card will save the planet.
Everyone knows that's down to Flash Gordon and he's only get 22 hours to do it!
In reply to Cú Chullain:
I tend to recycle because I think that one day when I have children/grand children and the world is even more of a hell hole for them than it is for us, I will have a clean conscience over it.
I tend to recycle because I think that one day when I have children/grand children and the world is even more of a hell hole for them than it is for us, I will have a clean conscience over it.
In reply to i.munro:
Each "emergency" isn't a separate issue - they are interrelated. An extra 200,000 people per day on the planet is doing nothing to reduce CO2 emissions.
If there were only 200 people on the whole planet, they could burn fossil fuels to their hearts content, and it wouldn't have a big effect. The reason we are running into problems is because there are SO MANY of us! (coupled with the fact that we all want more and more stuff, and don't worry about the long term).
> but nothing like enough of a difference (without other measures) to get the 60+% reduction in C02 neeeded within the next few years.
> Presumably enviromental activists feel that being ignored about one emergency at a time is a full-time occupation.
> Presumably enviromental activists feel that being ignored about one emergency at a time is a full-time occupation.
Each "emergency" isn't a separate issue - they are interrelated. An extra 200,000 people per day on the planet is doing nothing to reduce CO2 emissions.
If there were only 200 people on the whole planet, they could burn fossil fuels to their hearts content, and it wouldn't have a big effect. The reason we are running into problems is because there are SO MANY of us! (coupled with the fact that we all want more and more stuff, and don't worry about the long term).
In reply to tlm:
The thermonuclear war for the remaining oil fields and habitable land should reduce the population at a bit and block out the sun for a few years too. Two birds, one stone...
The thermonuclear war for the remaining oil fields and habitable land should reduce the population at a bit and block out the sun for a few years too. Two birds, one stone...
In reply to Cú Chullain:
Except recycling aluminium is something around 10 times more energy efficient than starting from raw materials....
B*llocks....grow up. Business can be used to effect change, but that doesn't mean the reasons for doing it are purely business - they are clearly not (though the motivation for business to be involved may well be).
Or convince them to develop far more sustainably than we did...
Cr*p troll.
> Recycling your plastic bottles and tin cans is as much use as putting a plaster on a malignant cancer tumour.
Except recycling aluminium is something around 10 times more energy efficient than starting from raw materials....
> "Save the Planet" is a business, nothing more nothing less.
B*llocks....grow up. Business can be used to effect change, but that doesn't mean the reasons for doing it are purely business - they are clearly not (though the motivation for business to be involved may well be).
> The planet is f*cked and will only be getting more f*cked in the near future unless we somehow lose 3 billion people and convince India and China to revert back to bicycles.
Or convince them to develop far more sustainably than we did...
> <tip toes back under bridge>
Cr*p troll.
In reply to Anonymous:
LATS is fines for failing to meet biodegradable diversion targets isn't it, so surely that is precisely the policy driver that will get LAs to do something about biodegradable waste. Incidentally how about landfills with biogas (ie the methane) capture and energy production - surely that prevents the major problem with landfills (apart from lack of space)?
> (In reply to Enty)
> [...]
>
> The charges associated with the LATS scheme are immense £150 per tonne over the allowed limit from 2010 + Landfill Tax. Most councils can't afford not to change. Though I do believe that recycling plastic and cardboard is more of a token environmentalism than doing something such as diverting bio-degradeable waste from Landfill. I think its more important to stop food waste and other organic matter going to landfill. The plastics and cardboard should take a back seat but unfortunately the average person on the street thinks recycling plastic and card will save the planet.
> [...]
>
> The charges associated with the LATS scheme are immense £150 per tonne over the allowed limit from 2010 + Landfill Tax. Most councils can't afford not to change. Though I do believe that recycling plastic and cardboard is more of a token environmentalism than doing something such as diverting bio-degradeable waste from Landfill. I think its more important to stop food waste and other organic matter going to landfill. The plastics and cardboard should take a back seat but unfortunately the average person on the street thinks recycling plastic and card will save the planet.
LATS is fines for failing to meet biodegradable diversion targets isn't it, so surely that is precisely the policy driver that will get LAs to do something about biodegradable waste. Incidentally how about landfills with biogas (ie the methane) capture and energy production - surely that prevents the major problem with landfills (apart from lack of space)?
In reply to tlm:
I couldn't agree more & if govts (china excepted) had listened when we were harping on about this 20 years ago we wouldn't be in half as much trouble now as we are.
However even if a blanket one child per couple rule was put in place tomorrow we would still have to take drastic C02 cutting action.
The reasons you don't hear much about this now are (I assume) that it makes sense to concentrate on the most urgent issue as long as govts refuse to take any action & that 20 odd years of experience shows noboody *except china) is willing to act on population.
I couldn't agree more & if govts (china excepted) had listened when we were harping on about this 20 years ago we wouldn't be in half as much trouble now as we are.
However even if a blanket one child per couple rule was put in place tomorrow we would still have to take drastic C02 cutting action.
The reasons you don't hear much about this now are (I assume) that it makes sense to concentrate on the most urgent issue as long as govts refuse to take any action & that 20 odd years of experience shows noboody *except china) is willing to act on population.
In reply to MJH:
Every landfill I've ever visited has gas wells and generation capacity. Problem is it's a very short term means of production, the methane produced drops off after a few years.
I'm quite amused by the idea that landfils are just big holes that everything gets tipped into. They're very costly, highly regulated engineering schemes with gas and leachate extraction systems. Incineration...er sorry, Pyrolysis...is they way forward, probaby in combined heat and power plants, but no-one wants one built next door.
> (In reply to Anonymous)
> [...]
>
> Incidentally how about landfills with biogas (ie the methane) capture and energy production - surely that prevents the major problem with landfills (apart from lack of space)?
> [...]
>
> Incidentally how about landfills with biogas (ie the methane) capture and energy production - surely that prevents the major problem with landfills (apart from lack of space)?
Every landfill I've ever visited has gas wells and generation capacity. Problem is it's a very short term means of production, the methane produced drops off after a few years.
I'm quite amused by the idea that landfils are just big holes that everything gets tipped into. They're very costly, highly regulated engineering schemes with gas and leachate extraction systems. Incineration...er sorry, Pyrolysis...is they way forward, probaby in combined heat and power plants, but no-one wants one built next door.
In reply to MJH:
" <tip toes back under bridge>
Cr*p troll. "
Really? Got you frothing at the mouth
Anyway, despite the OP being deliberately provocative it has sparked quite an interesting debate!
" <tip toes back under bridge>
Cr*p troll. "
Really? Got you frothing at the mouth
Anyway, despite the OP being deliberately provocative it has sparked quite an interesting debate!
In reply to Cú Chullain:
Yes, precisely because it was a cr*p troll about a serious subject.
Unfortunately there are some that will take you seriously and see it as further justification for their mindless ignorance and selfishness.
> (In reply to MJH)
>
> " <tip toes back under bridge>
>
> Cr*p troll. "
>
> Really? Got you frothing at the mouth
>
> " <tip toes back under bridge>
>
> Cr*p troll. "
>
> Really? Got you frothing at the mouth
Yes, precisely because it was a cr*p troll about a serious subject.
Unfortunately there are some that will take you seriously and see it as further justification for their mindless ignorance and selfishness.
In reply to Ridge:
I thought the majority in the UK did which is why the Landfill Directive always puzzles me given that one of its main aims was to prevent methane emissions from landfills.
In some EU countries that would be considered advanced engineering.....having a hole that is!
>They're very costly, highly regulated engineering schemes with gas and leachate extraction systems.
If waste treatment prices are anything to go by not as costly as other treatment options , though I get the gist of what you are saying!
>Incineration...er sorry, Pyrolysis...is they way forward, probaby in combined heat and power plants, but no-one wants one built next door.
Everything is waste to energy or energy from waste....none of that dirty incineration word. I sat through the European Parliament's Environment Committee debating the new Waste Framework Directive listening to idiotic MEPs state that incinerators are the major source of dioxins in the EU (they aren't - about 2-3%)...
> (In reply to MJH)
> [...]
>
> Every landfill I've ever visited has gas wells and generation capacity. Problem is it's a very short term means of production, the methane produced drops off after a few years.
> [...]
>
> Every landfill I've ever visited has gas wells and generation capacity. Problem is it's a very short term means of production, the methane produced drops off after a few years.
I thought the majority in the UK did which is why the Landfill Directive always puzzles me given that one of its main aims was to prevent methane emissions from landfills.
> I'm quite amused by the idea that landfils are just big holes that everything gets tipped into.
In some EU countries that would be considered advanced engineering.....having a hole that is!
>They're very costly, highly regulated engineering schemes with gas and leachate extraction systems.
If waste treatment prices are anything to go by not as costly as other treatment options , though I get the gist of what you are saying!
>Incineration...er sorry, Pyrolysis...is they way forward, probaby in combined heat and power plants, but no-one wants one built next door.
Everything is waste to energy or energy from waste....none of that dirty incineration word. I sat through the European Parliament's Environment Committee debating the new Waste Framework Directive listening to idiotic MEPs state that incinerators are the major source of dioxins in the EU (they aren't - about 2-3%)...
In reply to MJH:
"Unfortunately there are some that will take you seriously and see it as further justification for their mindless ignorance and selfishness."
You dont have a very high opinion of your fellow UKC users do you?
"Unfortunately there are some that will take you seriously and see it as further justification for their mindless ignorance and selfishness."
You dont have a very high opinion of your fellow UKC users do you?
In reply to i.munro:
I thought it was because most of the "green" initiatives that you see are actually nothing to do with the environment, and everything to do with cost cutting, or meeting externally imposed targets? They just get dressed up in a nice green overcoat to try to generate an extra bit of good publicity along the way....
> The reasons you don't hear much about this now are (I assume) that it makes sense to concentrate on the most urgent issue as long as govts refuse to take any action & that 20 odd years of experience shows noboody *except china) is willing to act on population.
I thought it was because most of the "green" initiatives that you see are actually nothing to do with the environment, and everything to do with cost cutting, or meeting externally imposed targets? They just get dressed up in a nice green overcoat to try to generate an extra bit of good publicity along the way....
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